job balancing discussion (1.22a-hotfix)

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Originally Posted by Answa

Funnily enough, neither of those is its name...

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you're right, lol. Maybe after these changes I'll play paly now and know these things.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I was just being a smart-ass. You're not exactly invincible if you take damage from attacks.

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i know you were being funny, but i just wanted to say that i understood it wierd and wanted to see if anone else thought the same.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

Wow, Steel Cyclone TP cost was reduced and timer untouched.
I'm in a state of shock right now.

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Seems like the nerf came mostly in the form of attack power reductions. Nerfed once from the loss of the attack power from combo bonus, and another time from rampage nerf.

Actually paladin can become fully invincible once you find the 7 evil pig bags and seal the pigs that cursed Eorzea with their evil magicks.

JUSTICE!! For DRGs

Love reading the "how dare you nerf my barcher" when will people learn, once you bandwagon a class (CC BLM/BRD, DH BLM/BRD, moogle BLM/BRD etc etc) SE are planning the nerf I for one welcome the barcher nerf.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Love reading the "how dare you nerf my barcher" when will people learn, once you bandwagon a class (CC BLM/BRD, DH BLM/BRD, moogle BLM/BRD etc etc) SE are planning the nerf I for one welcome the barcher nerf.

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The funny point is, it's not even a big deal of a nerf. I'm perfectly fine with waiting 3 seconds to attack after I ws.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Love reading the "how dare you nerf my barcher" when will people learn, once you bandwagon a class (CC BLM/BRD, DH BLM/BRD, moogle BLM/BRD etc etc) SE are planning the nerf I for one welcome the barcher nerf.

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Meh, it's not going to do jack against the Bardchers. Remember when they implemented the cast interruption while moving and how everyone was "Oh, Woe is ME! BLM is soooo screwed!" ... and notice how nothing changed? Yeah that recast is going to be about as noticeable as a mage having to stop to cast, only a minor annoyance.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Love reading the "how dare you nerf my barcher" when will people learn, once you bandwagon a class (CC BLM/BRD, DH BLM/BRD, moogle BLM/BRD etc etc) SE are planning the nerf I for one welcome the barcher nerf.

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Ill fight you...

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Love reading the "how dare you nerf my barcher" when will people learn, once you bandwagon a class (CC BLM/BRD, DH BLM/BRD, moogle BLM/BRD etc etc) SE are planning the nerf I for one welcome the barcher nerf.

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Right because BLM totally got nerfed with BRD, your logic is flawless.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Right because BLM totally got nerfed with BRD, your logic is flawless.

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Melee damage across the board got buffed. Your observation skills are impressive.

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Originally Posted by Suirieko

The funny point is, it's not even a big deal of a nerf. I'm perfectly fine with waiting 3 seconds to attack after I ws.

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I don't. i levelled the class to be a dd (ala ffxi ranger) the fact i can sing songs on it is a bonus.

squeezing in all those light shots between skills is how the hell we keep up with the other dds and now looks pretty fkd. no lightshots between skills = hugely less tp = hugely less damgage = lol dd. if our skills didnt suck so much then it wouldn't be a problem. but the only way a bard/archer could compete with any other dd class was with the light shot spam fest.

paladin updates look kinda crap unless goring blade puts out some omgwtfpwn damage. given that emnity is a huge issue for paladin and nothing theyve mentioned seems to impact it. wars nerfed? little less damage the dd may have to watch hate a little but beats watching it alot with a paladin and parry bonus just makes them even more survivable....

looks like now both my favorite jobs are crap.
Oh how i really hope i'm so very wrong when i log in.
kinda looks like i'll be jumping on the black mage band wagon......

You can't design single target classes over AoE ones when the majority of the content entails masses of mobs. I guess it will take them a year to realize that as usual.

Give paladin a pulse aoe or at least give it back circle slash.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Melee damage across the board got buffed. Your observation skills are impressive.

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Are you even in the same hemisphere as the rest of this thread?

Ohhh Lancers are losing their accuracy reduction on some abilities i like this change =D!

I am actually sad we're looking accuracy reduction on Chaos Thrust. Amusingly enough I liked missing with a couple of hits on that. It basically allowed me to follow it up with Feint and combo that into Disembowel, making an otherwise 3-hit combo into a 5-hit combo, even if I lost up to half the damage on Chaos Thrust.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Are you even in the same hemisphere as the rest of this thread?

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Actually, no I have my feet firmly planted in reality.

You should do more reading.

Every Melee Class got some sort of buff, with Marauder only getting a nerf in some of its AoE Rape-face situations. (Berserk even got a buff.)

Critical Damage boosts across the board got buffed, which will benefit melee jobs more as they'll have more critical chances.

Meanwhile BLM's got nothing. This likely means the power creep was balanced out some. Will people still play the easy button game of class stacking? Sure, because that's how band-wagon players think. You can't break that sort of 'path of least resistance' mentality, people will just find another exploit.

But as far as cries for 'nerf blm'. Even though I agreed before the patch that Magic Damage needs some adjusting, I'll smack the crybabies first, then see what the adjustments have done for the game in general, instead of knee-jerking.

Something you should adapt into your gaming policy as well.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

bonus. lol

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That's my favorite part of PLD

Skies, good call, I also enjoyed doing the same.

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Originally Posted by Skies

I am actually sad we're looking accuracy reduction on Chaos Thrust. Amusingly enough I liked missing with a couple of hits on that. It basically allowed me to follow it up with Feint and combo that into Disembowel, making an otherwise 3-hit combo into a 5-hit combo, even if I lost up to half the damage on Chaos Thrust.

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With higher monsters still packing impressive evasion, and the possible fix done on Critical Attack bonuses, I don't think you'll have to worry about potential misses being eliminated. Your build will likely change slightly to compensate for the possibility for more damage, likely shaving a tad of excess accuracy in the process and perhaps leaving that window of opportunity open.

We'll have to see how it all plays out when the numbers get re-crunched.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Actually, no I have my feet firmly planted in reality.

You should do more reading.

Every Melee Class got some sort of buff, with Marauder only getting a nerf in some of its AoE Rape-face situations. (Berserk even got a buff.)

Critical Damage boosts across the board got buffed, which will benefit melee jobs more as they'll have more critical chances.

Meanwhile BLM's got nothing. This likely means the power creep was balanced out some. Will people still play the easy button game of class stacking? Sure, because that's how band-wagon players think. You can't break that sort of 'path of least resistance' mentality, people will just find another exploit.

But as far as cries for 'nerf blm'. Even though I agreed before the patch that Magic Damage needs some adjusting, I'll smack the crybabies first, then see what the adjustments have done for the game in general, instead of knee-jerking.

Something you should adapt into your gaming policy as well.

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they did nerf black mage... well indirectly.

its called collusion

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Actually, no I have my feet firmly planted in reality.

You should do more reading.

Every Melee Class got some sort of buff, .

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read that 3 times now i dont see any archer/bard buffs can you be so kind as to point them out please?

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

they did nerf black mage... well indirectly.

its called collusion

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Ha! Good call! Though that will change some combat tactics as well.

Ah Collusion-Flare, I shall miss seeing thee.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

read that 3 times now i dont see any archer/bard buffs can you be so kind as to point them out please?

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Melee:
may-lay
(...)

*Combat involving non-projectile battle, particularly with fists, club, etc.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Actually, no I have my feet firmly planted in reality.

You should do more reading.

Every Melee Class got some sort of buff, with Marauder only getting a nerf in some of its AoE Rape-face situations. (Berserk even got a buff.)

Critical Damage boosts across the board got buffed, which will benefit melee jobs more as they'll have more critical chances.

Meanwhile BLM's got nothing. This likely means the power creep was balanced out some. Will people still play the easy button game of class stacking? Sure, because that's how band-wagon players think. You can't break that sort of 'path of least resistance' mentality, people will just find another exploit.

But as far as cries for 'nerf blm'. Even though I agreed before the patch that Magic Damage needs some adjusting, I'll smack the crybabies first, then see what the adjustments have done for the game in general, instead of knee-jerking.

Something you should adapt into your gaming policy as well.

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Yet again you fail to understand what I was saying which was completely sarcastic in nature. Please try to read who I quoted and what I posted - Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Yet again you fail to understand what I was saying which was completely sarcastic in nature. Please try to read who I quoted and what I posted - Thanks.

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You have to say /sarcasm in that case lol, sarcasm never carries well over the internet.

As for changes I think one issue I see coming from MRD is how slowwww Whirlwind is unless they secretly sped up it's animation which would be nice. But that ability is such a horrible animation lock lol.

*ahem* To review for the slow ones out there:

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Right because BLM totally got nerfed with BRD, your logic is flawless.

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I see no room for misinterpertation, even including sacrasim.

You're making the assumption for the person you quoted that BLM must get 'nerfed' directly like 'Barcher' did.

In which case I told you to check your reading comprehension because BLM's performance advantage over other jobs did get a nerf when the bottom bar on Melee got distinctively raised.

There are two ways to nerf a class advantage.

You either take the job down a notch, or you raise the base performance of its competition.
The latter just happened for BLM.

I'm sorry, but the comprehension failure is on your part.

All great changes i think!

pld need an aoe... (apart from the mass voke)

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When changing from Gladiator to Paladin, instead of HP being reduced, INT will now be reduced.

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Does this mean the HP is staying the same? So no HP boost?

Also where is the PLD aoe? How are they useful in this game when everything is aoe oriented?

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Originally Posted by PRlNCE

pld need an aoe... (apart from the mass voke)

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As I said in the other pld thread and in the pld sub forums

Give
Them
Parrys

Foresight and Overpower is a great combo to grab that initial hate.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

*ahem* To review for the slow ones out there:


I see no room for misinterpertation, even including sacrasim.

You're making the assumption for the person you quoted that BLM must get 'nerfed' directly like 'Barcher' did.

In which case I told you to check your reading comprehension because BLM's performance advantage over other jobs did get a nerf when the bottom bar on Melee got distinctively raised.

There are two ways to nerf a class advantage.

You either take the job down a notch, or you raise the base performance of its competition.
The latter just happened for BLM.

I'm sorry, but the comprehension failure is on your part.

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So they nerfed bard which at best managed to be on par with the bar other dd jobs set so now it falls clearly under the bar. then they gave all those other dd jobs a boost which in turn raises the bar even more trying to make it closer to blms but increasing the gap even further between other dds and arc/brd...

by nature ranged damage dealers such as archers rangers should be quite high on the damage dealing ability thats kinda what justifies the expense in playing them. you could argue that the expense is for the safety of range but that doesnt ring true for blackmage now does it?

one would almost think it was the brds that were the ones killing garuda before the ariel blast.........

Before= Two Dragoon's walk into A bar.........
....... But they miss :O

Now= Two Dragoon's walk into A bar.. and party all night long =^.^= wooooooooooo.
yes took that from 11 classic lil joke about sam. :P

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

*ahem* To review for the slow ones out there:


I see no room for misinterpertation, even including sacrasim.

You're making the assumption for the person you quoted that BLM must get 'nerfed' directly like 'Barcher' did.

In which case I told you to check your reading comprehension because BLM's performance advantage over other jobs did get a nerf when the bottom bar on Melee got distinctively raised.

There are two ways to nerf a class advantage.

You either take the job down a notch, or you raise the base performance of its competition.
The latter just happened for BLM.

I'm sorry, but the comprehension failure is on your part.

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Nope, pretty sure it is still on you, but nice try. Please continue to spew paragraphs at me if it makes you feel better though.

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Nope, pretty sure it is still on you, but nice try. Please continue to spew paragraphs at me if it makes you feel better though.

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I'm siding with Hyrist on this, you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

As I said in the other pld thread and in the pld sub forums

Give
Them
Parrys

Foresight and Overpower is a great combo to grab that initial hate.

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With an aoe you can lead a group into battle which is what the war does in the exp partys and dugeons. The pld is ment to be the leader (or so i thought)

While I appreciate their trying to help PLD, buffing Hallowed Ground/Invincible the way they did is not what I'd call ideal. I'd rather the ability be chanced to mitigate 80-85% of all incoming damage than to fully mitigate "most" abilities. I know they made it "most" abilities so that you couldn't use it to cheese through things like astral flows and whatnot, but it simply doesn't seem right to me.

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Originally Posted by PRlNCE

With an aoe you can lead a group into battle which is what the war does in the exp partys and dugeons. The pld is ment to be the leader (or so i thought)

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Thats what im sayin
Its a really neat tactic that sadly gladiators cant make use of

To be honest i think that paladin should be just a little bit more of the leader type.

After all the white ranger became the leader of the power rangers and the red ranger pretty much got the shaft on that, but still got to be leaderish.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

So they nerfed bard which at best managed to be on par with the bar other dd jobs set so now it falls clearly under the bar. then they gave all those other dd jobs a boost which in turn raises the bar even more trying to make it closer to blms but increasing the gap even further between other dds and arc/brd...

by nature ranged damage dealers such as archers rangers should be quite high on the damage dealing ability thats kinda what justifies the expense in playing them. you could argue that the expense is for the safety of range but that doesnt ring true for blackmage now does it?

one would almost think it was the brds that were the ones killing garuda before the ariel blast.........

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Here's the problem with that logic - you're assuming Archer has no other worthile functions besides damage.

This flatly isn't true. Their unique support functions alone solidify their position and the fact that having two insures both buffs being used encourages stacking - something that should NOT be encouraged at all.

Adding 'On par' Damage functions on top of that, and you've a class that's silently OP.

The payment for arrows (And please, cry to me about your arrow costs, when I can pay 4-6k a piece for my top tier javlins. And yes, I use them. They make all the difference in a pinch.) is the cost for your relatively safe damage.

IMO Bards should not be contenders for 'on par' damage. They should be on a tier slightly below, as they offer more to damage than just their own performance. Unless of course, you want to take a "Cleric's Stance" approach to all this.

Really SE? I leveled Archer not to be Bard. Fine you made it into a bard and then you made it that only one song can be active at a time unless you have 2 or more bards in the party. And now this crap. Seriously give us a ranged DD job and a pure support job. Ranger in FFXI is a really good dd. You can improve bard by making two songs stick. That alone will make up for the things that you have done wrong. A really good brd most definitely can DD.

Monk and Dragoon mega buffed. I'm freaking happy. :D