P1N Warrior solo kill

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Undeadfire

It's precisely isn't the job issue having self heals, it's the normal raid having no threat of damage, no threat of enrage. .

---

Hah? I have seen Eden 10 go enrage when only me and another tank were alive for a while, we could have killed it with no problem though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Honestly I blame it on this being moved to the Tank forums. This turned from a "content needs no healer" to a balance issue.

---

Yeah, the moderators don't seem inclined to read the thread any more than the "CHECKMATE WARRIOR'S NOT OP BECAUSE PALADIN AND GUNBREAKER CAN DO IT TOO" crowd :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eagledorf

Yeah I hate that Paladin can do this too. It's very slightly less offensive than WAR in that PLD had to sacrifice their tanking and damage-dealing to go healer mode, but it's still terrible.

If the game were like an old-school MMO where roles weren't locked in in the duty finder and healers could go DPS mode equal to tanks it wouldn't bother me that a Paladin could go healer mode at the cost of DPS and enmity, but forcing people into a pure healer role and then making content where that's not even necessary is disastrous regardless of what tank (or summoner, back when Titan was a tank) is doing it and regardless of how hardcore the content is. Is SE going to force healers into one role of the trinity while tanks get to occupy three, or will SE give healers the same flexibility and importance as tanks?

I know SE crushed healer flexibility because healers themselves complained about the pressure of DPS and healing, but that was when healers were forced to meld accuracy and vitality and got screamed at for literally everything because they had sole responsibility for party survival. With substantial reforms to the game including buffs to tank utility and a greater focus on gimmicks, it's now a negative to continue to lock healers into just one thing and then make that one thing largely unnecessary.

Either healers need to be absolutely indispensable, or they need something else to do. Either of these is fine (though the former is more pressure on healers).

---

Having played other games where healers COULD roll a DPS spec, I think this is exactly my frustration, I I am not really required to go full-bore healing spec it is SO frustrating to go 2111111111111111111111111112, with the occasional heals. I would SO much rather be able to have that flexibility , which I had in other games (sadly I even miss cleric stance), to have a DPS spec, which would still give me some heals and utility such as raises.

Love the warriors gaslighting everyone saying that whaver a warrior solos "doesn't matter"

Well as a GLD in 1.0 and PLD on 1.X and in ARR 2.0-2.X, HW 3.0 -3.X. People forgot that we have CROSS CLASS SKILLS in which Paladin had access to Cure which later on was replaced by Clemency. And basically they take Bloodbath from Warriors... ANY person who have played the old FF games and some others MMORPG (not only DPS brain-dead discussion ones) knows tanks have a healing skills even in FFXI PLD have access to Cure IV.

Basically, talking trash about sustainability is not helping at this point.

This ONLY happen when u take out little things like Stone Skin, Protect. Alternate status effectiveness (for example, u still have sleep but what do you sleep in dungeon normally). And focus only the tools on DPS, DPS, DPS…

Do not misunderstand me, the DPS is important, sustainability is important, and as a (old tank type) my mind is being the defensive tank out there. Help party with the DPS and already been good mitigation helping healer to not only focus on me, but not as much that do not need the healer or that I am dependent on it because in the end… I am not DPSer, I am not a paper, I am TANK defensive is for something. Of course, I need boss or enemies to do less DMG on me.

HOWEVER! Game Devs need to address that ANY CURRENT CONTENT that needs 8 party members and is SOLO-ABLE for 1 person needs to take into consideration because is a flawless on the design. Do it on dungeon it is not the same that doing it on Raid (24, normal or savage). Raids are expected to be more challenging, at least the 80% to use and know your skills.

With these as I have mention to my old mates that play with me since 1.0 or 2.0, this downscale and (some jobs if u read the player guide reference are nerfed since the beginning due to the DS). We are returning to HW times… Where I can even solo Diablo in Dun Scaith as a PLD.

It's not gaslighting when the devs agree.

Been soloing things better than most jobs since ARR. Sorry.

I actually didn't even know they have no enrage lol.

But yeah anyone defending this.
Just why?
It's so clearly not okay doesn't matter if it's WAR or PLD, the whole '' it's meant to be easy '' is just dumb it's group content it's not meant to be THAT easy that you can literally solo it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I actually didn't even know they have no enrage lol.

But yeah anyone defending this.
Just why?
It's so clearly not okay doesn't matter if it's WAR or PLD, the whole '' it's meant to be easy '' is just dumb it's group content it's not meant to be THAT easy that you can literally solo it.

---

Because being able to solo easy content in the slowest way possible confers zero advantage, especially because there's no struggle in clearing it normally in the first place.

What would you rather do, take over an hour to clear something solo, or just queue in DF and clear it 5 times as fast (even including wipes)

People can clear dungeons with no tank. People can clear dungeons as all healers, all DPS, all tanks. People regularly clear current alliance raids with meme comps all the time. No one cares. Just because you CAN doesn't mean it's GOOD or worth doing.
This game is not hard, the majority of content can be cleared in incredibly meme ways. There's a clear of P1 normal with only auto attacks. It took 9 hours.

As long as the "correct" way continues to be the most efficient then there is no issue at all that certain jobs can do things in different ways. I don't see warriors regularly clearing P1 normal solo, because no one wants to put in the time and effort to do it just for a slooooooooooooooow clear of something that's way faster to do normally.

I think the crucial part here is whether Warrior being able to solo something like P1N reduces or increases available content.

A solo run of P1N isn't going to replace a normal, far faster run that Warrior could still get instant queues for almost any time of night. As such, it merely adds a form of side-content. Nor is Warrior so advantaged in that core/real content as to bar other tanks from it, reducing available content for those who want to tank but do not want to play Warrior.

It's a bit odd that said side-content is limited to a single tank, with no other tank having their answer to it or similar advantage in other turns, but that's still more just-for-fun side-content than we had before with no loss to real content or job choice therein.

To consider an opposite example, though, Bloodwhetting's scaling procedure could outright destroy Savage dungeons or the like, if they were a thing, making them (especially, their trash) very difficult to balance for both Warrior and the non-Warrior tanks; if merely challenging for non-Warriors, trash would be pitiful to Warriors, while if trash were challenging even to Warriors, it'd likely wall off many non-Warrior tank players. That'd be something that, contextually (i.e., if SE ever wanted to add content variety beyond GS mini-games), would require fixing. (Even now, Bloodwhetting's AoE scaling is beyond ridiculous -- rather than merely mildly OP, as it was in ShB -- and probably should be reeled back to merely relatively overpowered.)

Thing to consider is once they stop gating token drops you can just take a Warrior to claim every token and it might be a more effective way to either gear up other classes or farm GC seals or get desynths rather easily. Instead of 10 minute runs and competing for tokens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Thing to consider is once they stop gating token drops you can just take a Warrior to claim every token and it might be a more effective way to either gear up other classes or farm GC seals or get desynths rather easily. Instead of 10 minute runs and competing for tokens.

---

NOW it's a problem. I just found a way to get my alts a leg up lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Thing to consider is once they stop gating token drops you can just take a Warrior to claim every token and it might be a more effective way to either gear up other classes or farm GC seals or get desynths rather easily. Instead of 10 minute runs and competing for tokens.

---

Yeah sure... have fun doing just that. This is not something WARs do for fun or to get gear. It's extremely tedious and only done if you want to challenge yourself. Just like the PLD did with his Solo. So far P1N has been solo'd by a WAR and a PLD so it's not only one tank that is able to do that.
But doing that fight solo takes alot of dedication and patience, you don't run in and do it first try.

Yeah I mean, didn’t both solo kills take close to an hour? It was just for the flex, it’s not actually practical. Though it still does raise the issue of healer irrelevance in certain content.

I believe the point is in future, not currently.

Right now it takes an hour, in the future if they don't future proof this charade for further normal raids, it can lead to another issue soloing other contents with Tanks, eventually quicker, at the same time it proves tanks are growing evidently indestructible. QOL is nice, but you can't keep making the game easier, easier, and easier, only leads on people leaving since there's "no challenge", I really hope next raid tier isn't so ridiculously easy this Xpac.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sqwall

NOW it's a problem. I just found a way to get my alts a leg up lol

---

By that point 590 should be extremely easy to get either via tomestones or by upgrading the crafted gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Undeadfire

I believe the point is in future, not currently.

Right now it takes an hour, in the future if they don't future proof this charade for further normal raids, it can lead to another issue soloing other contents with Tanks, eventually quicker, at the same time it proves tanks are growing evidently indestructible. QOL is nice, but you can't keep making the game easier, easier, and easier, only leads on people leaving since there's "no challenge", I really hope next raid tier isn't so ridiculously easy this Xpac.

---

Pretty much this. This content will only get easier to do with more gear.

WAR is broken. This fact is destroying the gameplay of FFXIV.

I think boss encounter in general (dongeon or normal raid) should hit way more harder and require more healing too. The game is way too easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Pretty much this. This content will only get easier to do with more gear.

---

Precisely. With better gear instead of an hour it might take 40 minutes. Maybe shorter if they decide to throw an echo buff which would be silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Conando

Yeah I mean, didn’t both solo kills take close to an hour? It was just for the flex, it’s not actually practical. Though it still does raise the issue of healer irrelevance in certain content.

---

Healer are not irrelevant.
You need healer to heal the DPS classes and fix mistakes.

By giving a tank his self sustain you take some pressure off from the healer in casual content.

That makes healer easier and more popular in that kind of content and that reduces the wait times for the DPS classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Curisu

Healer are not irrelevant.
You need healer to heal the DPS classes and fix mistakes.

By giving a tank his self sustain you take some pressure off from the healer in casual content.

That makes healer easier and more popular in that kind of content and that reduces the wait times for the DPS classes.

---

considering how the number 1 complaint among all healers is the lack of healing required and the second being how there's only 1 dot 1 nuke for dps, this is in fact incorrect and even more of a turn off to playing healer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

considering how the number 1 complaint among all healers is the lack of healing required and the second being how there's only 1 dot 1 nuke for dps, this is in fact incorrect and even more of a turn off to playing healer

---

Yea.... No.
You can read about all the cure1 whitmages and complaints about big pull's even in Max level content.

I had healers who didn't want me to do "big" pulls in lvl80/90 dungeons, while I played WAR.
At the same time I often didn't had to cast a single healing GCD in these dungeons.

The difference between extreme "casual" healer's and those who read the skill tooltips is hughe.
And it seems like SE is balancing the msq content towards the extreme "casual" playerbase.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Recon1o6

considering how the number 1 complaint among all healers is the lack of healing required and the second being how there's only 1 dot 1 nuke for dps, this is in fact incorrect and even more of a turn off to playing healer

---

This is not entirely correct, we're on the forums and you always see the same names here it's just a handful of people complaining about it, I see far less in the actual game complain about Tank sustain being too high.
At this point the forums became a pit of complains and nothing else. Story is shit, job balance is shit, outfits are shit, not enough queer gay characters in this game and the list goes on.

In fact, most healers I know like that, it makes trivial content like leveling/expert runs quicker. In savage raids and ultimates there is no issue with WAR/PLD tanks. Heck alot of people favor GNB/DRK there because they bring more damage to the table.

P1N just happens to deal pitiful damage, they should look that the future encounters are not like that anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Curisu

Yea.... No.
You can read about all the cure1 whitmages and complaints about big pull's even in Max level content.

I had healers who didn't want me to do "big" pulls in lvl80/90 dungeons, while I played WAR.
At the same time I often didn't had to cast a single healing GCD in these dungeons.

The difference between extreme "casual" healer's and those who read the skill tooltips is hughe.
And it seems like SE is balancing the msq content towards the extreme "casual" playerbase.

---

How about instead catering to hyper casuals we improve learning tools so casuals can improve without leaving the game and watch/read a guide online. Just making more trivial content will just enable hyper casuals to stay hyper casual and never improve. Cure 1 especially shouldnt even exist as a Button. It should have been upgraded via trait to Cure 2 long time ago. Same goes to Physick and Benefic 1. The Novice Arena been out of date for so long. The fact that Square thinks this lvl 15 content is enough for a level 80 boosted character is laughable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RinaShinomiya

snip

---

I agree that we should give players more tools that could show these player's how to play their job more efficient, but I also know that this will not help.

Some people are lazy and only want to experience the story. That's why we have a "easy" mode for solo duty's. But that's not even enough and some are still complaining about it being to difficult.

It is about making the base story accessable to as many player as possible.

Also, in savage/ ultimates you don't get bored as a healer. They are balanced to do that content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

This is not entirely correct, we're on the forums and you always see the same names here it's just a handful of people complaining about it, I see far less in the actual game complain about Tank sustain being too high.
At this point the forums became a pit of complains and nothing else.

---

Ah yes. If something remains badly designed for multiple expansions in a row, and players continue to complain about it, clearly it's the people pointing out bad design who are wrong. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

At this point the forums became a pit of complains and nothing else. Story is shit, job balance is shit, outfits are shit, not enough queer gay characters in this game and the list goes on.

---

"Welcome to the support line. Are you here to praise our services? What? No?! Then you can kindly **** off."

Really, mate. Why would the forums, a place in which to point out problems --let alone more specific sub-topics like Tank Roles, which have even less overlap with lodestone gush blogs-- not be skewed towards complaints?

Quote:

---

In fact, most healers I know like that, it makes trivial content like leveling/expert runs quicker.

---

Shifting power from tank's available offensive throughput to tank self-sustain, which healers then make up for with their own Glare/Holy spam, does not make dungeons quicker. That's merely a matter of tuning. Dungeons are faster when there's less enemy HP relative to typical party's practical throughput.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

"Welcome to the support line. Are you here to praise our services? What? No?! Then you can kindly **** off."
Really, mate. Why would the forums, a place in which to point out problems --let alone more specific sub-topics like Tank Roles, which have even less overlap with lodestone gush blogs-- not be skewed towards complaints?


Shifting power from tank's available offensive throughput to tank self-sustain, which healers then make up for with their own Glare/Holy spam, does not make dungeons quicker. That's merely a matter of tuning. Dungeons are faster when there's less enemy HP relative to typical party's practical throughput.

---

I'm not your mate, buddy.
What support line are you talking about? Not a single mod even takes a glimpse of the english forums.

I do not say all the complains are invalid, there are nore than enough people that make a good point and opinions should be taken into concideration, what I am saying is that the forums ceased to be a place for discussion and turned into a shitshow where everyone tries to get his own points through.
Players that are content with their kits are also less likely to visit the forums. Also SE uses data to determine whether changes are needed or not, not complaints.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atreides

Also what support line are you talking about?

---

Official forums, much like a technical help line, tend firstly to be places for noting perceived problems. Forums simply take that a step further with discussion as to how they might be addressed, for which posters will often bring in examples of what has worked well in the past to contextualize or guide that discussion.

That doesn't mean that discussion somehow fails to have meaning, or has failed its purpose, whenever it focuses on negatives. Such is irrelevant; all that matters is that we are clarifying criteria and the like as to provide bases by which to address current and future issues or build upon past and/or current strengths.

Quote:

---

what I am saying is that the forums ceased to be a place for discussion and turned into a shitshow where everyone tries to get his own points through.

---

Perhaps we simply frequent different sections of these forums, but I've seen little difference in related behavior from 1.x to now that isn't easily and sufficiently explainable by the lengths at which the perceived problems have been left unaddressed. Unsurprisingly, the longer a problematic trend goes on, the more annoyed people will get by lack of action. That's no excuse to drown out more productive conversations (such as figuring out, through as broad a collaboration as possible, what our preferences such that we can recommend ways of correcting those problems that won't merely put us into an even worse position) with repetitively listed grievances, but, again, neither is that behavior new. It was just as frequent in 1.x, in ARR, in HW, in StB, and in ShB.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mortex

Just because the content is piss easy you want too nerf tanks ? And sry if you die too ground aoes in content that is telegrapht then you deserve it. If it’s not early snapshot weight of the land then you are 100 % at fault and not the tank. Also a tank with 5 vuln up that main tanks also gets oneshot by tankbuster if he’s bad and doesn’t use any cd. Had that happen in the 81 dungeon we’re the tank had 5 stacks and got one shot by the tankbuster.

Final Fantasy 14 has the problem that the content is designed for (I’m sorry for saying that in this way here) monkeys and I say that’s even a insult too the monkeys because I actually needs max 3 button too clear the normal content in this game.

---

Ssunny wants everything nerfed. All he ever talks about is nerf this and nerf that. Just ignore him.

P1S has been cleared by 8 people with only WAR.
Maybe WAR is too strong after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FateRu

P1S has been cleared by 8 people with only WAR.
Maybe WAR is too strong after all.

---

got a link to a video of that?

This is more evidence we can add to the pile of healers not being needed for years.

-e4s cleared without healers when current
-dungeons regularly dont need healers unless its a drk
-both extremes in ew are regularly cleared with just 1 healer and repeatedly with 0
-p1n doesnt need healers

and now another savage won't need them. content is too undertuned across the board.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any video.
Only reports on social networking sites.
https://twitter.com/ff14telltail/sta...aCIcflisg&s=19

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FateRu

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any video.
Only reports on social networking sites.
https://twitter.com/ff14telltail/sta...aCIcflisg&s=19

---

You cannot Holmgang all the tankbusters so whatever cheese they did to not die to magic vuln is likely shielding and mitigating it so much it does not matter. Or letting tank die and rezzing him, since having extra dps easily compensates that and boss autos are so weak nobody else would die in meantime :)
But most likely DPS with shielding can survive flare tankbuster so maybe it was some aggro manipulation for that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Somnolence

You cannot Holmgang all the tankbusters so whatever cheese they did to not die to magic vuln is likely shielding and mitigating it so much it does not matter. Or letting tank die and rezzing him, since having extra dps easily compensates that and boss autos are so weak nobody else would die in meantime :)
But most likely DPS with shielding can survive flare tankbuster so maybe it was some aggro manipulation for that.

---

The boss does like 6-7 tankbuster that you normally swap. Pretty sure you can holmgang all of them (with 8 wars).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FateRu

P1S has been cleared by 8 people with only WAR.
Maybe WAR is too strong after all.

---

Nobody got nerfed the last time a raid was able to be cleared (while current) by stacking one job. Why start now?

If I have to choose between clearing a content alone for more than 1 hour or with people for 8 mins, I know which one I'd rather prefer. The video makes WAR seem incredibly OP but its such a pointless thing to do that in reality it doesnt really mean anything.

Unpopular opinion maybe, but for me but a class is OP if its performing way above the other ones. For example if WAR can do 70% of mDPS damage and 70% of healers healing (and can heal others) then it is OP.

But does WAR actually outperform healers when it comes into healing? not in a million years unless if the healer is sleeping. Some people say WAR dont need heals, well trust me depending on the content and timing they do and DPSes certainly need healing. So how does the existence of a tank that can heal itself make healers redundant when there are still 3-7 people in need of healing in a fight? just because you dont have to heal the tank doesnt mean you can sleep.

Lets not remove more unique things from a class just because someone with enough time can solo a normal boss whose mechanics is just matching red with blue and blue with red. Class identity has to be preserved. Even now there are a few jobs that lack it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Nobody got nerfed the last time a raid was able to be cleared (while current) by stacking one job. Why start now?

---

Just because something has been cheesed in the past doesn't make it right to continue. It's a pretty basic gaming concept.

Also regarding class stacking and contents being done without healers. They involve strategies and are not your average party strats. If it becomes so mainstream then you can say something is wrong. But if it takes thinking, certain strats and rather good players to pull it off then nothing is OP but the players themselves.

Why so many folk want WAR nerfed? Isn't this a problem with encounters rather than WARs. Lets not include dungeons, as dungeons only have one difficulty and are mainly for the story. So simply anyone with at least a thumb on a single hand can clear it. However in raids, they need to sort out the damage dealt in encounters, make damage less predictable and actually hit hard. Make auto attacks from the boss make the tank panic. There is a lot wrong with how the WAR can just heal through things no probs, but it isn't down to the WAR...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lieri

Also regarding class stacking and contents being done without healers. They involve strategies and are not your average party strats. If it becomes so mainstream then you can say something is wrong. But if it takes thinking, certain strats and rather good players to pull it off then nothing is OP but the players themselves.

---

Do it with 8 samurai.