Zenos is... [big fat spoily]

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Originally Posted by nighttimebunny

there's no way he's dead. he's came back from the dead before and we all know the devs don't really like killing off characters. the devs also have stated they don't care about a character's popularity when keeping them alive/dead, so the crowd of people who hate him don't really matter.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Abomination713

In order to do this he will journey around the world in our company and help us in the new challenges we will face. If he and his method did not work in beating us, maybe seeing how we live our day to day life and following what we do is the key to finally pushing past his limits.

Yeah, it's dumb, but no one dies in this game when they should.

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Not dumb at all. This sounds brilliant. I would LOVE for this to happen.

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Originally Posted by Abomination713

So here's my take on it. He's still alive and will show back up out of nowhere in a brand new clone body since Garlemald has perfected cloning technology and even Emet-Selch had multiple cloned bodies just laying around for him to use when he died. He will be satisfied with the fight we had, but now it's no longer about having the best fight every. It's now about winning that fight as he views it as overcoming the one challenge he as ever had in his life. A goal he can aim for. In order to do this he will journey around the world in our company and help us in the new challenges we will face. If he and his method did not work in beating us, maybe seeing how we live our day to day life and following what we do is the key to finally pushing past his limits.

Yeah, it's dumb, but no one dies in this game when they should.

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Not a half bad idea. Studying us to find out how he can surpass us. And we can direct that energy of his when he's around for our own purposes. Maintains the "I don't completely trust you but we're cooperating for now" idea.

We already had Zenos killed, had him revived and had some dark entity take his body. If it happens again there just wont be any poing in his arc. Especially if he starts helping us and will be our buddy/scion. Just as senseless as resurrecting Hades/Hyth.

No matter how much Zenos helped us he still did horrible stuff in the past, and turning everything upside down and throwing away that he almost killed our friends and tortured ppl will be just plain dumb.

Remember the whole Tsuyu plot and the Role quests for ranged classes to see how those "redemtion arcs" can look from the side.

I love Zenos, cause he is not 0815. Sure he did bad things, but that's the point in beeing a Villain or not? If I could ... gosh all Scions would be dead already. Would be nice to choose the dark side and not beeing always the good Bringer of Light.

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

I love Zenos, cause he is not 0815. Sure he did bad things, but that's the point in beeing a Villain or not? If I could ... gosh all Scions would be dead already. Would be nice to choose the dark side and not beeing always the good Bringer of Light.

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That sounds so good to me. "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain." That might just fit our WoL. I'd love an expansion and some patches where the WoL becomes the villain. The "fallen hero" trope, gosh, I love it when it's done well. And it's also quite rare in media; it's rare to have your protagnoist become the antagonist and still make sense. But when it happens and it's done well...chef's kiss

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

...still alive.

We thought he was dead when he merked himself in Ala Mhigo, but we learned that, similarly to that one fish man who turned into aether and possessed another one of his kind after being shot by Tall Trenchcoat Lady, he was able to do the same with a Garlean soldier in order to reclaim his body.

Who's to say that he didn't do the same with a random Loporrit onboard the Ragnarok... or worse, the Warrior of Light?

We did do that creepy smirk thing back to him during the final battle. I think he already wormed his way into our head, made us susceptible to be used as a vessel to carry him back to Hydaelyn (the planet, not the god).

Get ready for Zenos for three more expansions!

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Yep, I agree! I want to see him back, alive and well, but not as a villain again, and not just because he wants to fight the WoL all the time. I want a redemption/rehabilitation arc for him, one that he survives.

It would be even more fun if the roles were somewhat reversed, and if the WoL becomes a villain/antagonist and Zenos becomes good and has to help the WoL "see the light" again. So much could be done with such a plot.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Yup. :) I love batsh!t crazy characters, epic battles, monsters, gore, etc, when it comes to games/movies. Zenos is the kind of character I always get obsessed with. I appreciate his last few "good deeds" because they were different and fun but I hope they won't go overboard with it when he comes back. I'm glad he stayed true to himself and did everything to get all my attention for our final fight. He should be my WoL's crazy murderous BFF. Like I always say: people like different things.

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Hey Erinellza, I kept wanting to say this to you (hope you see this message): since you're a Zenos fan and would like to see him back, we have a Discord group/server dedicated to Zenos fans that you might enjoy. We like to talk about Zenos and theorycraft about him and ways in which he could return and affect the story going forward. It's a nice place to keep in touch with like-minded people while we wait to see what happens in the MSQ. Let me know if you would like to join!

Oh and anyone else who likes Zenos and would like to see him return is also welcome to join! We'd love to hear your ideas and theorycraft together and keep the hope alive!

i also feel that zenos still alive, either alive "well" or alive in some way (maybe like half dead or in spirit form or "hijacking" other body"

like he just.... flat down the "floor" just like that? no blood, no glitter disappearing effect, no excruciating pain or anything like that.

just... laying down there just like that

Gaius couldnt go to Garlemald even if he wanted to cause he was accused for Varis's death. If Zenos was to come back, travelling with him would be kinda "worry".

I dont think he will come back tbh, even if i liked him this expansion as he showed progress as a character, hes probably dead and theres no nearby hosts for him to take over in that zone.

His Avatar may return using his body tho, we know they are capable of taking over their hosts bodies completely from the RPR questline.

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Originally Posted by Sathona

Gaius couldnt go to Garlemald even if he wanted to cause he was accused for Varis's death. If Zenos was to come back, travelling with him would be kinda "worry".

I dont think he will come back tbh, even if i liked him this expansion as he showed progress as a character, hes probably dead and theres no nearby hosts for him to take over in that zone.

His Avatar may return using his body tho, we know they are capable of taking over their hosts bodies completely from the RPR questline.

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Can you elaborate on how you feel he made progress as a character? I felt he was the exact same megalomaniac as he was back in StB, driven only by his desire to fight someone of equal or better skill. The only reason he "helped" us was so that nobody else got to kill us, and so that we wouldn't be distracted by something bigger when we finally did decide to kick his sorry ass

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Originally Posted by Sathona

Gaius couldnt go to Garlemald even if he wanted to cause he was accused for Varis's death. If Zenos was to come back, travelling with him would be kinda "worry".

I dont think he will come back tbh, even if i liked him this expansion as he showed progress as a character, hes probably dead and theres no nearby hosts for him to take over in that zone.

His Avatar may return using his body tho, we know they are capable of taking over their hosts bodies completely from the RPR questline.

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I'm still salty at how we just "enshroud" in the gameplay after being told enshroud is bad in the storyline, and our Avatar didn't do anything unique that makes it protect us against other Avatars to justify enshrouding us.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I'm still salty at how we just "enshroud" in the gameplay after being told enshroud is bad in the storyline, and our Avatar didn't do anything unique that makes it protect us against other Avatars to justify enshrouding us.

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I'm both happy and sad that Avatar job questline doesn't elaborate on how RPR work at all.
Good thing is that we are free to headcanon those things
Bad thing is that we HAVE to headcanon because there is no information at all on how it works and what are pros/cons. The're just "oh you could die if you cant control your voidsent, good luck with that" as opposed to DRK which actually taught you to use your emotions and darkness to do good and not being consumed by pain and suffering.

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Originally Posted by AnotherPerson

I'm still salty at how we just "enshroud" in the gameplay after being told enshroud is bad in the storyline, and our Avatar didn't do anything unique that makes it protect us against other Avatars to justify enshrouding us.

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Such a weird questline that really doesn't want to commit any job abilities in the story, it's just "Here's a stone and scythe, you're a w̶i̶z̶a̶r̶d̶, ̶H̶a̶r̶r̶y̶ Reaper now"

I get that they've moved away from quests being linked to / featuring abilities since around SB, but it leaves the quests and jobs feel rather divided.

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

Sure, that sounds like fun! I'd enjoy a place where people don't think that I'm crazy for loving Zenos. :P

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Yay! Here's a link, hope it works for you! (please let me know if it doesn't work so I can try again)

https://discord.gg/P8A269fy

FFXI you fight Shinryu in a very similar area where Zenos is currently located.

It would be interesting if that was an introduction to a story arc for FFXI Abyssea expansion.

Zenos may still be alive.

Pretty sure that was Vana'diel - Abyssea's moon (an alternate future where the player loses against Promathia) where you fight Shinryu in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Axious

FFXI you fight Shinryu in a very similar area where Zenos is currently located.

It would be interesting if that was an introduction to a story arc for FFXI Abyssea expansion.

Zenos may still be alive.

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With the time and dimension traveling, I kinda have a theory that Zenos is Shinryuu

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Originally Posted by myahele

With the time and dimension traveling, I kinda have a theory that Zenos is Shinryuu

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He'd need a lot of aether, though and he's kinda in a place where there is none... also in FFXI's case, the Shinryu in that game is Promathia.
I genuinely think Zenos is dead dead. He got a satisfying fight and who's to say his Avatar didn't eat whatever of his soul/aether remained?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

He'd need a lot of aether, though and he's kinda in a place where there is none... also in FFXI's case, the Shinryu in that game is Promathia.
I genuinely think Zenos is dead dead. He got a satisfying fight and who's to say his Avatar didn't eat whatever of his soul/aether remained?

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In the reaper quests we learn that your voidsent avatar can keep you alive OR possess/eat you. Given that Yoshi P said the avatar is "Zenos's new best friend" it may have kept him alive

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Originally Posted by Iscah

But we're not going to stop talking about Hydaelyn in lore discussions just because she's no longer an active character in the story.

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Look, I'm not going to complain if the loporrits manage to popularize the change in name, but I just think it's unnecessary. It also might be better to keep the separate names to differentiate between the sundered and unsundered world. Differentiating between the world and the primal is easier.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Can you elaborate on how you feel he made progress as a character? I felt he was the exact same megalomaniac as he was back in StB, driven only by his desire to fight someone of equal or better skill. The only reason he "helped" us was so that nobody else got to kill us, and so that we wouldn't be distracted by something bigger when we finally did decide to kick his sorry ass

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Well the point he decided to come to Sharlyan, not kill anybody and help us fight the big universe evil is proof that he got character progression to be fair, no matter how minimal it might feel.

Zenos had all the choices to make even when Zodiark died, he could have helped us getting rid of the blasphemy right at beginning but instead decided to just do nothing and think of a way to fight us without any satisfactory answer.

Still funny and happy that Alisaie pretty much gave that push, she manages to help in her own way.

If Zenos took over a Loporrit, would he be Huntingway or Stalkingway?

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

If Zenos took over a Loporrit, would he be Huntingway or Stalkingway?

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Obsessionway or Genocideway?

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

Obsessionway or Genocideway?

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Killingway and he's the guardian of the colony (Just going around killing stuff)

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

If Zenos took over a Loporrit, would he be Huntingway or Stalkingway?

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He only chased after us once saving us oof Stalkingway doesnt suit him.

Huntingway is perfect tho

Yandereway.

I haven't read all of this thread. Has anyone joked that "Sure, Zenos has a big fat rear spoiler" yet?

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

If Zenos took over a Loporrit, would he be Huntingway or Stalkingway?

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Nay, Lovingway

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I haven't read all of this thread. Has anyone joked that "Sure, Zenos has a big fat rear spoiler" yet?

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I have been thinking but declining to mention that for the past 11 pages.

Cuddlyway?

I like zeno dead 1 but i have half soul now i have Ardbert here to so hes gonna get it

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Originally Posted by Erinellza

He did help tho. He helped us chase down Meteion to get rid of the threat so he can have the WoL's attention. And he helped us get home with his last wish. And he did many fun things in the expansions, there's always room for more. :)

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If you consider doing things like stealing your body or killing his own people just for his own selfish desires fun then that’s a mindset I can’t understand. If you wanna drool over him then whatever, but I can’t stand him. If they bring him back yet again just for the same “But I wanna fight you” crap then it’s going to be really dumb.

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Originally Posted by Silvarer

If you consider doing things like stealing your body or killing his own people just for his own selfish desires fun then that’s a mindset I can’t understand. If you wanna drool over him then whatever, but I can’t stand him. If they bring him back yet again just for the same “But I wanna fight you” crap then it’s going to be really dumb.

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He comes back as Bunny Boy and then he will do everything to make you love him.

My own prediction is that he's not returning. 4.0 "resurrection" was weird and sucked a lot out of the meaning in the first Shinryu encounter, but at least there was Fandaniel around to "bring him back". This time though, he has no one left. Even if he says that this is too soon. This last fight was much too poetic IMO, to become meaningless like Shinryu. Whether the build up was worth it is subjective.

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Originally Posted by Aneshda

He comes back as Bunny Boy and then he will do everything to make you love him.

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The only way I would accept him coming back is if he’s a Loporrit. At least that would be hilarious.

He was such a boring villan. He had potential, but it just never worked. By the end of 6.0, he was literally forgettable.

Well, if he's alive, I guess that newly opened cafe in Ultima Thule will have its only customer.

I really hope we are done with him, I was so tired of him throughout 6.0 and found him to be little more than an annoying distraction and I am incredibly disappointed that our last encounter of the expansion was him. The last fight of our journey from ARR to here is this guy, who just showed up in 4.0 and who's purpose is "gotta fight to get my jollies off".

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Originally Posted by Raskbuck

Well, if he's alive, I guess that newly opened cafe in Ultima Thule will have its only customer.

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Maybe they can sell him a personality.