The Alliance roulette is unbearable

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

If running Nier content takes you an hour, then it ain't the stat squish you should be looking at.

What you should be looking at are the players getting used to new jobs/job mechanics, a few new faces here or there, and players that just don't give a damn.

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I personally think that is a cop-out answer. Do new people exist? Oh, absolutely. But when no matter the content, no matter the players in said content, the content takes longer than it used to? We're weaker. If I am a healer in an 80 raid, and I have to heal more than I had to before the stat squish, just going off unavoidable AoE damage, we are weaker.

I refuse to believe that every player I have come across since Endwalker just sucks and that's why every bit of content under the sun is taking longer.

To further go against your point, I ran Thordan EX with my spouse the other day for journal progress. We are both lvl 90 in jobs we have been playing since the beginning. We know the Thordan fight like the back of our hand from how much we've run it. At 560 iLVL, that fight took as long as it did when we were level 80 in 430 gear.

its in a pretty sad state since they made CT mandatory.

the fact they call it a roulette still is a joke, when 3 of the 12 options are so heavily weighted to pop, even without getting into ilvl manipulation.

i guess the XIV team supports and encourages afking and low effort play. the state of MSQ roulette seems to support that too.

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Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion

Please please please pray, add an ilvl requirement to this roulette that scales with the job level of the person queuing for it.

A level 90 character equipping lvl 50 gear and then queuing for this roulette to get a quick and easy LotA or CT run is not what this roulette is intended for. This is having a huge adverse impact on everyone who wants to enjoy all of the alliance raids with this roulette, especially the more recent ones. About 90% of my alliance roulette runs are one of these two raids because of people abusing this exploit and I'm going to die from boredom if this continues.

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I don't do this roulette anymore because of that. I'm so bored. Always the same thing. So unbearably boring.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Luna

I don't do this roulette anymore because of that. I'm so bored. Always the same thing. So unbearably boring.

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Personally, I have trouble staying awake no matter which raid I get. At least with the CT ones, it's so fast I don't have enough time to fall asleep.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

Every time one of these threads pops up, I'm seeing a bunch of people who are completely missing the point of rolettes. They are not there for you to experience a "variety" of content - you can just select 5 of your favorite alliance raids and do it that way, guaranteed no Sycrus Tower! The roulette is there to throw bodies with a pulse to people waiting in queues for specific duties. And logically, there is a lot more players looking to do Crystal Tower raids than Nier. If you don't like Labyrinth of the Ancients so much, don't queue for the roulette intended to fill Labyrinth of the Ancients runs.

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Yeah except we all know it's not filling with players who actually NEED the CT raids. It's been weeks now since I've seen the "Someone is new to this duty" message, meaning it's just filling with people abusing gear requirements which is NOT its intended use.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

I personally think that is a cop-out answer. Do new people exist? Oh, absolutely. But when no matter the content, no matter the players in said content, the content takes longer than it used to? We're weaker. If I am a healer in an 80 raid, and I have to heal more than I had to before the stat squish, just going off unavoidable AoE damage, we are weaker.

I refuse to believe that every player I have come across since Endwalker just sucks and that's why every bit of content under the sun is taking longer.

To further go against your point, I ran Thordan EX with my spouse the other day for journal progress. We are both lvl 90 in jobs we have been playing since the beginning. We know the Thordan fight like the back of our hand from how much we've run it. At 560 iLVL, that fight took as long as it did when we were level 80 in 430 gear.

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My personal take on it, and this is from last night doing alliance roulette and getting Orbonne, is this.

Yes, there are new players who don't know the raids and are going through them for the first/second time.
Yes, there are also a lot of players who just don't know mechanics because they get sucked into content that doesn't have those mechanics, even though they ran it a couple times years ago.
And yes, there are just as many people who just go in expecting an easy carry because "lol why should I care? You don't pay my sub".

It's an amalgamation of all the above points that the roulette should be adjusted so that it cannot be cheesed. If you are at level 50, you need to have ARR raids unlocked to access it. At level 60, you must have the Mhach raids unlocked. At 70, Ivalice. At 80, Nier. And you must have an ilvl equal to being able to enter the highest tier for your level equipped to queue.

I like doing the raids on my 70-80-90 toons. and i do get scaled down i am assuming my gear does as well like when we do fates lower than current levels. Is a fast run . and still see wipes in ct . lately not so much but is still fun and for doing relics is a requirement so why .if you want to do a higher one que for it .

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Originally Posted by Thatusernameistaken

Yeah except we all know it's not filling with players who actually NEED the CT raids. It's been weeks now since I've seen the "Someone is new to this duty" message, meaning it's just filling with people abusing gear requirements which is NOT its intended use.

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Have you tried looking a bit harder? Is there a single lower level player in your LotA? A single ShB relic farmer? A single MSQ skipper who doesn't have any other AR unlocked? Even one of those is enough to send people to CT raids. They are disproportionately more accessible and sought after and the roulette just reflects this fact

fast exp go brrrrrrr

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Originally Posted by Thatusernameistaken

Yeah except we all know it's not filling with players who actually NEED the CT raids. It's been weeks now since I've seen the "Someone is new to this duty" message, meaning it's just filling with people abusing gear requirements which is NOT its intended use.

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Remember that those who have only unlocked the CT raids can do the roulette and if they queue for alliance roulette, it will drag 23 other players with them. Just because you don't see a newcomer doesn't mean there's not someone in the party who hasn't unlocked the other raids yet.

Not saying that people don't cheese but with the changes to the CT making it mandatory, I do not think the number of players cheesing cause the raids to be run to a high enough degree to warrant anything put in to punish those players as anything they put in would likely inconvenience those who do not cheese.

Now if they made it a weighted roulette where it favored higher level raids over lower level raids but would fill a lower one if there was a need due to excessive wait times.

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Originally Posted by ClaudeHerel

fast exp go brrrrrrr

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ilvl cheesing for "fast exp" is the dumbest excuse I've ever heard. If you really want fast exp at the expense of fun, go to Bozja. Don't drag everyone else down with you.

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Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion

Please please please pray, add an ilvl requirement to this roulette that scales with the job level of the person queuing for it.

A level 90 character equipping lvl 50 gear and then queuing for this roulette to get a quick and easy LotA or CT run is not what this roulette is intended for. This is having a huge adverse impact on everyone who wants to enjoy all of the alliance raids with this roulette, especially the more recent ones. About 90% of my alliance roulette runs are one of these two raids because of people abusing this exploit and I'm going to die from boredom if this continues.

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I'm not convinced that players are abusing this "exploit," mainly because I didn't even know of it until you brought it up. Isn't it possible that the inordinate number of LotA and CT runs is due to the influx of new players? The leveling process hits a lull in the 60s, so I'm not surprised that there are so many players who have only unlocked the level 50 raids. The level 60 and 70 raids are also far less intuitive to unlock than the level 50 and 80 raids. I literally hit level 80 before I even realized that there were these other raids that I could unlock simply because I hadn't gone out of my way to look for them. Unless they're mainly in this game for the raids, most players aren't going to bother to do an internet search on how to unlock raids. I only found out about what I was missing when I hit a step in my relic weapon grind that required drops from raids that I didn't even know existed.

I personally feel like the roulette's purpose with regard to alliance raids is to reward level 90 players for lending a hand to level 50 players, so I actually think that the roulette system preferring LotA and CT is just working as designed. If you want to queue into level 90 raids, then either use the party finder or queue for specific raids in the duty finder.

Finally, even if your premise that players were "exploiting" the system is true, then isn't that simply an indication that players prefer the easier content? What even needs to be fixed there? Why do you want to force players into harder content just to suit your own personal preference? If I wanted to participate in a system where I was forced into harder content against my will, I'd go back to playing WoW. Why can't you just let players play the way that they want?

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Originally Posted by demonette

Not sure if you're being daft, but CT is absolutely an option for acquiring loathsome memories of the dying, for the quest Change of Arms.

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You are thinking of the shadowbringer relics, not the stormblood relics.

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Originally Posted by demonette

Not sure if you're being daft, but CT is absolutely an option for acquiring loathsome memories of the dying, for the quest Change of Arms.

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The irony here. Your post vs what you quoted. Use of the word daft.

Love the forums

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Originally Posted by demonette

Not sure if you're being daft, but CT is absolutely an option for acquiring loathsome memories of the dying, for the quest Change of Arms.

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Those are for Shadowbringers (level 80) relics.

Stormblood relics (at level 70) are indeed dealt with entirely within Eureka, via getting the elemental crystals (and also gated on having discovered a certain number of Logos actions). That was not a popular decision, which is why the Shadowbringers ones had ways to advance relics outside of Bozja, even if you had to do the Bozja storyline itself to unlock various tiers for the relic.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Even if they did add a feature to fix this, you'd still get mostly CT because, ya know, its required to continue the MSQ now.

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There's a lot of fixes that aren't as narrow as the only one you can think of.

Each expansion could have its own 24 man roulette.

So I am a little confused, why do people do the alliance roulette?

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

Move CT raids to the MSQ roulette and problem fixed.

Add MORE roulettes according to expasions or level ( Shb Roulette, SB Roulette, EW roulette or just High Dungeon Roulette [60++])
Add MORE raids roulettes so everyone can be happy and do the content they should be doing instead of 60 runs of CT per month.

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I havent messed with it myself but i saw a video recently talking about lesser known things that can helf in final fantasy 14 one of which is it talked about in dungeon settings you can actually change something to make a random dungeon cliser to your level. Personally i like the idea of adding more roulettes more daily xp bonuses but thats most likely why they dont want to add too many. Honestly i think them trying to put an alliance raid in the MS is a bit silly since it is an "alliance raid" and fits that criteria of roulette so people who queu for one and not the other arent going to get sucker punched

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

I havent messed with it myself but i saw a video recently talking about lesser known things that can helf in final fantasy 14 one of which is it talked about in dungeon settings you can actually change something to make a random dungeon cliser to your level. Personally i like the idea of adding more roulettes more daily xp bonuses but thats most likely why they dont want to add too many. Honestly i think them trying to put an alliance raid in the MS is a bit silly since it is an "alliance raid" and fits that criteria of roulette so people who queu for one and not the other arent going to get sucker punched

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Is what that setting does not mention is it will be with in 6 levels of whom ever you are randomly grouped with. So if you are queuing by yourself and one of the random players you are put with is level 50, you will get level 50 alliance raids.

I'm only really happy to get the CT raids when I need it for WT.

Otherwise it's just a kinda boring, quickly zero fest to get out as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

So I am a little confused, why do people do the alliance roulette?

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Well, it is good exp when leveling.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

I havent messed with it myself but i saw a video recently talking about lesser known things that can helf in final fantasy 14 one of which is it talked about in dungeon settings you can actually change something to make a random dungeon cliser to your level. Personally i like the idea of adding more roulettes more daily xp bonuses but thats most likely why they dont want to add too many. Honestly i think them trying to put an alliance raid in the MS is a bit silly since it is an "alliance raid" and fits that criteria of roulette so people who queu for one and not the other arent going to get sucker punched

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There is a setting that will limit it to dungeons only around your party's lowest level, but you must have a full party before you queue.

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Originally Posted by Juzjuzz

I wish they'd actually forbid everyone to access the roulette if the gear isn't on the correct level.

"Oh you don't want to play at lvl 80 even if your job is lvl 87 ? No roulettes for you."

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In reality, it will play out like this:

"Oh you don't want to let me play at the level I'm comfortable with because i progressed too far through your story? No sub for me."

The fact that players are "exploiting the system" in this manner indicates that they prefer the easier old school raids. The alternative is to dial the difficulty down on the current raids to bring them in line with the older, more reasonable difficulties of years past. If there wasn't a significant critical mass of players that was queueing for the easier content, you wouldn't see this phenomenon.

If you want to queue for on-level content, do so outside of the roulette. The purpose of the roulette is to give newer players who are still working through the content a chance to clear that conent without having to wait in the party finder for hours for someone to deign to group with them. It gives the veterans an incentive to help out random strangers who are still leveling through the game. If I want to run a level 90 raid, I'll queue for it, start a new run on the party finder, or find an existing run on the party finder. I don't go to the (random) duty roulette expecting to zone into Pandemonium. There's even a roulette option for players who prefer the harder content, and it's the expert roulette.

To me it looks like some players are simply complaining that the roulette is providing end game players with an alternative to running extremes and savages. If they want to play a game that punishes players for not try harding the game enough, then WoW may be their cup of tea.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

There is a setting that will limit it to dungeons only around your party's lowest level, but you must have a full party before you queue.

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Well, a light party (4 people), not a full party, since it only applies to specifically leveling roulette. But I imagine you meant "you need an entire party for the duty", not "you need a Full Party in the sense this game uses the term, i.e. 8 people."

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

In reality, it will play out like this:

"Oh you don't want to let me play at the level I'm comfortable with because i progressed too far through your story? No sub for me."

The fact that players are "exploiting the system" in this manner indicates that they prefer the easier old school raids. The alternative is to dial the difficulty down on the current raids to bring them in line with the older, more reasonable difficulties of years past. If there wasn't a significant critical mass of players that was queueing for the easier content, you wouldn't see this phenomenon.

If you want to queue for on-level content, do so outside of the roulette. The purpose of the roulette is to give newer players who are still working through the content a chance to clear that conent without having to wait in the party finder for hours for someone to deign to group with them. It gives the veterans an incentive to help out random strangers who are still leveling through the game. If I want to run a level 90 raid, I'll queue for it, start a new run on the party finder, or find an existing run on the party finder. I don't go to the (random) duty roulette expecting to zone into Pandemonium. There's even a roulette option for players who prefer the harder content, and it's the expert roulette.

To me it looks like some players are simply complaining that the roulette is providing end game players with an alternative to running extremes and savages. If they want to play a game that punishes players for not try harding the game enough, then WoW may be their cup of tea.

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It's not a matter of later raids being difficult, none of the later alliance raids are that hard nor are "expert" dungeons, it's players being lazy. How about if someone only wants to run CT, they can queue for it directly and stop ruining alliance roulette with ilvl cheesing. There's nothing try hard about expecting people to put in a modicum of effort.

After reading through the thread more, I do agree Square exacerbated the issue by making the CT raids required for the MSQ and an option for the ShB relic. I can't think of any easy solutions for this other than making the rest of the alliance raids mandatory as well (would prefer if they didn't though, side content should just remain optional imo). Maybe they can at certain points they can somehow inform players of their existence. At the very least, please fix the ilvl cheese, even if it means only 1 less CT raid a month.

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Originally Posted by MaxCarnage

To further go against your point, I ran Thordan EX with my spouse the other day for journal progress. We are both lvl 90 in jobs we have been playing since the beginning. We know the Thordan fight like the back of our hand from how much we've run it. At 560 iLVL, that fight took as long as it did when we were level 80 in 430 gear.

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Thordan EX seems like a poor measure for comparing how long a fight takes due to equipment. 90% of the running time is waiting for a fixed sequence of attacks and events to play out, most of them to be dodged rather than defeated.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

If I wanted to participate in a system where I was forced into harder content against my will, I'd go back to playing WoW. Why can't you just let players play the way that they want?

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If you're signing up for the roulette then it is not putting you anywhere against your will, because by signing up for it you've agreed to be placed into any alliance raid where you are needed.

As you said yourself:

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

The purpose of the roulette is to give newer players who are still working through the content a chance to clear that conent without having to wait in the party finder for hours for someone to deign to group with them. It gives the veterans an incentive to help out random strangers who are still leveling through the game.

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If that is the purpose of the roulette, then deliberately locking yourself out of being available to help fill the higher levels of the roulette is defeating the purpose of it. The people queuing for Dun Scaith and Paradigm's Breach need those veterans' help more urgently than the ones queuing for Syrcus where everyone in the roulette is eligible to join them.

If they force people to do the higher tier raids without giving them higher tier rewards then people are just not going to do the alliance roulette.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

If they force people to do the higher tier raids without giving them higher tier rewards then people are just not going to do the alliance roulette.

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Similar arguments were made regarding making the cutscenes be unskippable in MS Roulette. Look how that one goes...always has people doing it, most of the time nobody new to the instances. Though, due to the vast difference in EXP from one to the other, people tend to leave the shorter one more often.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Similar arguments were made regarding making the cutscenes be unskippable in MS Roulette. Look how that one goes...always has people doing it, most of the time nobody new to the instances. Though, due to the vast difference in EXP from one to the other, people tend to leave the shorter one more often.

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So you are saying people actually don't mind doing longer duties if they are appropriately rewarded? If only we could, say, apply this to AR roulette... Nah, nonsense.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

I can't think of any easy solutions for this other than making the rest of the alliance raids mandatory as well

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Please no. I wish I could un-unlock the Nier raids on my main and I'm not going to even bother on my alt.

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Originally Posted by Thatusernameistaken

Yeah except we all know it's not filling with players who actually NEED the CT raids. It's been weeks now since I've seen the "Someone is new to this duty" message, meaning it's just filling with people abusing gear requirements which is NOT its intended use.

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YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE NEW IN THAT DUTY in order to get it.

There's five possible explanations why CT raids popped in AR:

1. One or more people in the ALLIANCE didnt queue with a level 60 job.
2. One or more people in the ALLIANCE dont have any other AR unlocked.
3. One or more people in the ALLIANCE queued directly for the CT that popped.
4. Entirely random since 1 in 4 chance of getting a CT via random roulette (this chance increases if someone in the alliance doesnt have all or any of the other ARs unlocked).
5. Someone reduced their ILVL before entering AR queue.

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Originally Posted by Azuri

So you are saying people actually don't mind doing longer duties if they are appropriately rewarded? If only we could, say, apply this to AR roulette... Nah, nonsense.

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Which would be fine if it did. But since it doesn't something to prevent cheesing the queue would be nice. Preferably something like what Expert roulette has, where you have to have certain duties unlocked/cleared to be able to access it. As is, when new dungeons appear, you don't keep access to expert until you unlock those dungeons, so why not put that requirement on alliance raids? It would do a few things:

1. Help people who are trying to do later raids a better chance of getting them popped, and cleared, in a timely manner;
2. Expose people to mechanics that are seen in later parts of the story, that are more frequently seen in the raids;
3. Help people get exposed to their more complete skill set so that they can work on practicing rotations, while still be rewarded for doing so

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Originally Posted by Azuri

So you are saying people actually don't mind doing longer duties if they are appropriately rewarded? If only we could, say, apply this to AR roulette... Nah, nonsense.

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Idk how this person doesn’t have upvotes when it is the best response in this thread. If it takes longer, it should be worth more. If it’s worth more, people would be more incentivized to do it. As it stands right now, CT is much less time and effort for the same reward

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Originally Posted by baklava151

It's not a matter of later raids being difficult, none of the later alliance raids are that hard nor are "expert" dungeons, it's players being lazy. How about if someone only wants to run CT, they can queue for it directly and stop ruining alliance roulette with ilvl cheesing. There's nothing try hard about expecting people to put in a modicum of effort.

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You completely missed the point. You don't get any current tomestones for queueing for CT. That's why they don't queue directly for it. To say that the newer alliance raids aren't any harder is laughable. Obviously they are, or no one would be deliberately "cheesing" the queue. Furthermore, if the majority of players were really clamoring for the harder, newer raids, then the players who "cheesed" it would actually be increasing your chances of getting into a current raid because they would exclusively be filling the slots for the older raids and leaving the newer raids' slots open for players who want to do the current ones. The reason you don't see as many current raids in the roulette is that players prefer to go into those with premade groups. This has nothing to do with item levels. Again, the roulette is working as designed.

To be honest, as soon as I saw you call players "lazy" for not wanting to put any "work" into a video game, I had to scratch my head. The whole point of playing is to relax. Playing a video game is, in and of itself, a lazy activity. Unless you're streaming the game or creating content from it, you'll never convince me that you're being industrious by investing more time into a video game than the next guy. If I wanted to be industrious, I wouldn't be playing video games in my spare time.

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

If they force people to do the higher tier raids without giving them higher tier rewards then people are just not going to do the alliance roulette.

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Good riddance. I still see wipes in CT raids and I suspect there is an overlap with people who find most alliance raids difficult enough to try and avoid them, and people who mess up basic mechanics.

I'll take their place if they quit. It's been a while since I last did alliance roulette and it would be fun to see the raids again. I'm just sick of getting nothing but CT.

Sounds like they should just buff enemy hp in the CT/ST raids.

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Originally Posted by demonette

Sounds like they should just buff enemy hp in the CT/ST raids.

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What a ridiculous idea. Make the entry level alliance raids, the mandatory alliance raids, more difficult to try and funnel people into nier…
Punish those for not playing the content you want to play

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Originally Posted by Kolaina

What a ridiculous idea. Make the entry level alliance raids, the mandatory alliance raids, more difficult to try and funnel people into nier…
Punish those for not playing the content you want to play

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Not only that, but it would keep the people who are tired of CT in them for longer. "I don't want to do this content any more so make it harder and longer to punish everyone who gets it inclusing myself". Ridiculous idea.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

If that is the purpose of the roulette, then deliberately locking yourself out of being available to help fill the higher levels of the roulette is defeating the purpose of it. The people queuing for Dun Scaith and Paradigm's Breach need those veterans' help more urgently than the ones queuing for Syrcus where everyone in the roulette is eligible to join them.

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Trust me: a player who deliberately went to the trouble to make themselves unavailable for those raids isn't one you want in one of those raids with you. Ironically, the players complaining the most about this system are the ones are are theoretically benefiting the most from it because those players' lack of availability in the current raids increases leaves more slots open for the available players, thereby increasing the chances that a player who is available to all raids will land one of those spots. The "cheesing" isn't "ruining" the roulette. It's actually improving it for the people who prefer the later raids. I don't cheese the roulette, and I get a healthy mix of raids sprinkled in there on my max level jobs. This week I've gotten Weeping City of Mhach, Puppet Bunker, Copied Factory, and Labyrinth of the Ancients. Last week I was getting Void Ark almost every day. I didn't even know you could cheese the roulette in this fashion until this thread happened. Now I have to resist the temptation to do so. All this thread has accomplished is to bring awareness to an obscure exploit, and for what? They're proposing to alienate players over a non-issue.