The Dead Ends is yet another error in the push to make everything hardcore

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Running it with a healer who know to use Esuna.

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Thats a healer problem, not a dungeon problem.

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Originally Posted by Sathona

Thats a healer problem, not a dungeon problem.

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To be fair, it's been a while since we've had a dungeon I can recall that had an Esuna-cleansable debuff that was actually important to cleanse (as opposed to, like, 6 seconds of poison or paralysis), much less one that had that *and* a heal-to-full-to-cleanse Doom. (Albeit in separate boss fights.)

So healers may well not even read the tooltip on that debuff to notice it's why someone dies on their first run. I try to read tooltips of any unfamiliar debuff (especially if it has a Esuna marker!), but I know that's a lot harder for controller players.

It's not really an excuse, mind you. But it is at least an explanation.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

To be fair, it's been a while since we've had a dungeon I can recall that had an Esuna-cleansable debuff that was actually important to cleanse (as opposed to, like, 6 seconds of poison or paralysis), much less one that had that *and* a heal-to-full-to-cleanse Doom. (Albeit in separate boss fights.)

So healers may well not even read the tooltip on that debuff to notice it's why someone dies on their first run. I try to read tooltips of any unfamiliar debuff (especially if it has a Esuna marker!), but I know that's a lot harder for controller players.

It's not really an excuse, mind you. But it is at least an explanation.

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Interestingly enough, the new Healer Role quest specifically refreshes using Esuna as part of the healer role experience. .. This is probably why.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

To be fair, it's been a while since we've had a dungeon I can recall that had an Esuna-cleansable debuff that was actually important to cleanse (as opposed to, like, 6 seconds of poison or paralysis), much less one that had that *and* a heal-to-full-to-cleanse Doom. (Albeit in separate boss fights.)

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YMMV for DoTs, but cleansing paralysis is always worth it.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

YMMV for DoTs, but cleansing paralysis is always worth it.

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In a light party or if only one or two people are affected, I absolutely agree. So in a dungeon, yes, always worth it... though I have encountered many a healer that habitually just doesn't.

In a full party, though, unless your co-healer is also doing so (which, in my DF experience, they are often not) or only one or two people are hit, it frequently isn't worth it.

The average paralysis debuff is around, what, 10 seconds, maybe 15? With a 2.5s cast time, cleansing 8 people would take 20 seconds (assuming your cast on yourself isn't interrupted by said Paralysis). Obviously most people will have a shorter GCD, but not enough so that paralysis won't expire on its own before you finish cleansing it from everyone.

So in, say, Puppets' Bunker, I'll cleanse my own paralysis, that of any caster DPS, the tank if there is still more than 5 seconds left in that debuff after I finish with the casters, and otherwise let it fall off on its own.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

So in, say, Puppets' Bunker, I'll cleanse my own paralysis, that of any caster DPS, the tank if there is still more than 5 seconds left in that debuff after I finish with the casters, and otherwise let it fall off on its own.

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I generally don't cleanse the tank unless I see for sure that our assigned mob was interrupted, because that's their own dang fault.

I'm sorry but I had no issue going through any of the mentioned dungeons. Dead ends isn't hard...it just requires too to pay attention? Are you trying to imply you'd rather play something more akin to FF13 where you just walk forward and stuff happens?????

Like i don't get whats there to complain about? Isn't the whole premise of the game that you're getting stronger and overcoming harder trials? Wouldn't having the instances be harder feel more in line what what you (the WoL) has to go through. I'm just not sure what your issue is. All games ramp up difficulty near the end of the story.

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Originally Posted by Lumecastor

I'm sorry but I had no issue going through any of the mentioned dungeons. Dead ends isn't hard...it just requires too to pay attention? Are you trying to imply you'd rather play something more akin to FF13 where you just walk forward and stuff happens?????

Like i don't get whats there to complain about? Isn't the whole premise of the game that you're getting stronger and overcoming harder trials? Wouldn't having the instances be harder feel more in line what what you (the WoL) has to go through. I'm just not sure what your issue is. All games ramp up difficulty near the end of the story.

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Chill with the personal attacks :|

Same story every expansion launch.

"I died X times in dungeon, it's too hard"
"Final trial is too hard, it WILL be nerfed" (no it won't)

How about getting good, and pressing buttons.

I smell a bait post. Was the pot in need of stirring again?

When new savage raids drop i wipe like 50 to 70+ times on them at different stage / phases of the fights when they are still fresh / unknown before gettng it too, maybe because i'm getting older and i learn slower but in the end, i get it. You just persevere.

Wiping 4 times on one boss before getting it isn't "elitism".

Please... Don't go back playing most super nintendo games.

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

Nope. There is no visual indicator for the beam attack in the last boss for instance. It just randomly beams half the circle. You have to memorize which one it's going to do first (it's Left first, then Right, then Left).

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The wing glows on which side it's about to attack.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

The only annoying part of that fight is the butterflies, imo, because it is kinda hard to tell which way they're facing when they're so uniform in color.

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The butterflies have little circles on the ground below them and on those circles, a directional arrow. Much more helpful IMO.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Running it with a healer who know to use Esuna.

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Not for me. But I only run it as healer and I know about Esuna :)

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Originally Posted by Quintessa

Ra-La is a joke once you realize he just jumps all over the place. The second boss though, yeah he's a problem.

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But the second boss never moves!

What’s gross is that 9 people upvoted it, what’s even more gross is what a massive joke the previous 3 or 4 dungeons were effectively being the easiest leveling dungeons to date

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

The butterflies have little circles on the ground below them and on those circles, a directional arrow. Much more helpful IMO.

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To be fair, I've been told by friends that the ground markers are almost impossible to see against the ground color itself if you've got certain types of colorblindness, and I grant that mechanic would probably be extremely annoying if you had to rely solely on the butterfly model itself. So I'm willing to honestly say that some folks having trouble with that particular mechanic may come down as much to an unfortunate color choice as anything else. (I gather the Prance circles are also difficult to see for the affected folks, so that could affect that mechanic a bit as well.)

But in the past when it's become evident that a marker critical to a mechanic is not visible to some significant percentage of colorblind folks, the devs have changed the color (or in some cases, added a pattern to make it more visually distinguishable). Witness how they shifted the color of the zombie goo puddles in one Bozja critical engagement so they were visible against the ground, and added markers to the color zones for another. So I kinda suspect that the subjective invisibility of those ground markers is a transient problem and will be tweaked in some upcoming patch.

Imagine playing for 4 expansions, leveling to 90, seen nearly every mechanic the game has along the way, and still have people complain about how basic MSQ dungeon is still "to hard".

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Originally Posted by Croweyes

Imagine playing for 4 expansions, leveling to 90, seen nearly every mechanic the game has along the way, and still have people complain about how basic MSQ dungeon is still "to hard".

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well, likely a booster, so of course the fight is "hard"

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

For players who just want to do the story, there should not be mechanics that you only see in Extreme or Savage. What is Square Enix thinking putting all these ridiculously difficult mechanics in a dungeon boss like Exaflares or the second boss's ridiculous amount of AoEs? The issue is there is no obvious tells for what the solution to the mechanics are and they are totally new so unless you look up a MrHappy or MTQ guide there's no way to know how those mechanics work. After so many people complained about Mist Dragon and The Heroes' Gauntlet how come Square Enix still insists on making dungeons harder and harder? Please stop lol

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If you think any of the mechanics are close to extremes, nevermind savage, then you clearly haven't touched a piece of content above normal.

Also The Burn and Heroes Gauntlet were never even somewhat hard, if you really think that they were then I would've pitied you to have to seen Steps of Faith when that released.

But perhaps the problem lies solely on you for not learning mechanics, markers and generally how to play the game after 90 levels?

I find Amaurot harder than The Dead Ends...

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Originally Posted by Jirah

What’s gross is that 9 people upvoted it, what’s even more gross is what a massive joke the previous 3 or 4 dungeons were effectively being the easiest leveling dungeons to date

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I gotta say they really kicked it in the right direction at first with the Tower of Zot. All those AoEs from the Magus Sisters were like... daaaaaaang. I still avoided mostly everything and didn't die but it was MUCH more intense than the first Lightwarden was.

After that, though? Yeah. The rest of the dungeon bosses were mostly jokes. Still see people unsure of what to do from time to time, though. Especially on Hermes. As a Sage main I'm always ready to heal spam after each and every knockback window for the poor sods that get sent flying.

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

I find Amaurot harder than The Dead Ends...

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Amaurot was harder than the Dead Ends because I keep falling asleep when I play it.

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

For players who just want to do the story, there should not be mechanics that you only see in Extreme or Savage. What is Square Enix thinking putting all these ridiculously difficult mechanics in a dungeon boss like Exaflares or the second boss's ridiculous amount of AoEs? The issue is there is no obvious tells for what the solution to the mechanics are and they are totally new so unless you look up a MrHappy or MTQ guide there's no way to know how those mechanics work. After so many people complained about Mist Dragon and The Heroes' Gauntlet how come Square Enix still insists on making dungeons harder and harder? Please stop lol

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You clearly haven't done any savage content before. Also you haven't done the Stormblood normal raids either.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

You clearly haven't done any savage content before. Also you haven't done the Stormblood normal raids either.

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Oh no, he has. This is another alt of our favorite(sarcasm) troll. Their main, who they never post on, is on Jenova and has ultimate clears.

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

For players who just want to do the story, there should not be mechanics that you only see in Extreme or Savage. What is Square Enix thinking putting all these ridiculously difficult mechanics in a dungeon boss like Exaflares or the second boss's ridiculous amount of AoEs? The issue is there is no obvious tells for what the solution to the mechanics are and they are totally new so unless you look up a MrHappy or MTQ guide there's no way to know how those mechanics work. After so many people complained about Mist Dragon and The Heroes' Gauntlet how come Square Enix still insists on making dungeons harder and harder? Please stop lol

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Huhh? I ran it with the Story Mode Trust, and it was easy AF. How is it Hardcore?

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

The only trolls are the people who are saying there are visual indicators for everything. No there isn't. The people who made the guides probably used DBM so they know where to stand.

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1st every mechanic in FFXIV has a tell, even Savage Raids.

2nd, DBM doesn't exists in FFXIV* it's a WOW thing, also DBM worked by interpreting Boss Tells, so even in WOW every Fight had easy to read tells, but the player base was too lazy so DBM was able to make their app and be successful.

So far you have not given any actual evidence of an issue, and you are trying to sound like there is one when there is not. And yes, honestly this post really reminds me of That one guy who would often post Troll posts, not to say you are him, and not to say your intent is to troll, but you do seem to behaving in a manner that is indicative of trollish posting.





* DBM tried to design an app for FFXIV at one point, but due to SE stance on addons, and because getting it to work in a game like FFXIV without add support is hard AF, they basically abandoned the effort. There are Apps out their that track game mechanics for FFXIV but they are slow to update, and are frowned upon by the community for the most part, High End raiders may use Trackers for DPS and parsing data, and they may use apps to adjust the UI, and even make the game more pretty, but generally Discord Call Outs and learning the fights is the preferred method of dealing with mechanics.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

1. It's the last dungeon in the MSQ. It should be more difficult than the rest.

2. The hardest part about the dungeon was the mob pulls between bosses.

3. Literally every mechanic in all three bosses was visual AOE indicators. You would have to be visually impaired to have any problem with them. Apologies if you are visually impaired.

4. No boss in The Dead Ends uses an Exaflare.

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Wanted to upvote, but the insult to people that are visually impaired could have been left out. Ableism isn't kind.

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Originally Posted by Oichi

On a side note, any of the people that ran this dungeon with trusts got the Starbird as a drop? I would like to know if its possible to get it that way. Thanks in advance for any info!

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Got it on Trust last week. It is now my Always out Minion, I love her so much.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

https://i.imgur.com/adXggqx.png

Sparse job completion. One healer job at max level, all crafting at max...

Welcome back bot troll.

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What is funny about this, if someone looked at my posting main, they wouldn't see my other main. You wouldn't be able to tell I have 1 healer, 1 tank, Ninja, All Ranged DPS (Physical and Magical) at 90. When you see my posting main, you will realize I haven't logged into her since the expansion dropped, moistly because of queue times, but also because I am focused on getting my other main completed first.

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

What is funny about this, if someone looked at my posting main, they wouldn't see my other main. You wouldn't be able to tell I have 1 healer, 1 tank, Ninja, All Ranged DPS (Physical and Magical) at 90. When you see my posting main, you will realize I haven't logged into her since the expansion dropped, moistly because of queue times, but also because I am focused on getting my other main completed first.

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It's ok, my main has 7 level 80 jobs and 2 lvl90 jobs. It's silly to judge people here by their posting accounts and people are becoming more aware that the lodestone is being used as a kind of tracking device and therefore are using alts so they don't get tracked either by people here, or by stalkers/weirdos.

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Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts

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But the second boss never moves!

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I have problems there from all the effects, and I know I can turn them off but that means turning off everything. I'm pretty much 100% blind in that fight and rely on hearing instead.

I had a blast doing this fight. I thought it was well done and I'm not a hardcore raider.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

What’s gross is that 9 people upvoted it, what’s even more gross is what a massive joke the previous 3 or 4 dungeons were effectively being the easiest leveling dungeons to date

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TitanMen has at least 9 Alt accounts.

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

1. It's the last dungeon in the MSQ. It should be more difficult than the rest.

2. The hardest part about the dungeon was the mob pulls between bosses.

3. Literally every mechanic in all three bosses was visual AOE indicators. You would have to be visually impaired to have any problem with them. Apologies if you are visually impaired.

4. No boss in The Dead Ends uses an Exaflare.

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Dude, I'm legally blind and still see the markers.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Wanted to upvote, but the insult to people that are visually impaired could have been left out. Ableism isn't kind.

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As someone who is legally blind, I did not take it as an insult.

Stop taking offense for others. THAT is insulting.

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Originally Posted by Imora

As someone who is legally blind, I did not take it as an insult.

Stop taking offense for others. THAT is insulting.

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that's his whole gimmick

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

TitanMen has at least 9 Alt accounts.

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I mean, just look at other troll threads of him, people do fully believe and agree with the crap he posts, tbh

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Originally Posted by Gothicshark

What is funny about this, if someone looked at my posting main, they wouldn't see my other main. You wouldn't be able to tell I have 1 healer, 1 tank, Ninja, All Ranged DPS (Physical and Magical) at 90. When you see my posting main, you will realize I haven't logged into her since the expansion dropped, moistly because of queue times, but also because I am focused on getting my other main completed first.

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If you've been active on the forums for a spell you'd know there's a certain circle of botted accounts that one (or possibly a few) user uses to make forum alts and posts exactly this sort of drivel on. You even seem to know their name....

Qualifications: One job at max level , usually a healer. All crafting at max, miner and botanist at max and barely anything in other jobs. Maybe 10-12 on something else (notice all their non max jobs are right at or slightly above unlock level). The other dead giveaway is the ONE person FC.

I'm not making this claim lightly or sporadically. There's a formula and this poster hits all the reqs.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

I mean, just look at other troll threads of him, people do fully believe and agree with the crap he posts, tbh

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That's their whole thing, they pick something controversial that a minority probably agrees with and posts the worst take, along with technically possible or plausible arguments for it presented in the most close minded and worst way possible.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Wanted to upvote, but the insult to people that are visually impaired could have been left out. Ableism isn't kind.

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I mean, he isn't wrong, and I don't necessarily see that comment as an insult, or at least probably (hopefully) not intended as one (against folks with vision issues anyway). I am visually impaired, and I do struggle to see certain mechanics in game. Certain fights are a nightmare because of it. The butterflies on the last boss of Dead Ends is actually one of the things I had issues with for a while, because they're all the same color and also the same color as the ground, but my friend pointed out that there are arrows on the ground under them that are a darker orange color, and now that I know they're there it's much easier for me to read the mechanic.

I've been throwing my hat in for SE to make things less flashy and visually cluttered for years, but that's an issue with the game overall and not necessarily with the difficulty of this one particular dungeon.

Edit to add that I think most of the indicators in this dungeon are actually fairly clear. The two that are less so are the butterflies, because color matching nightmare, and the wind that pushes aoe's on the first boss because it might not be clear at first what the wind is gonna push (since similar mechanics have also pushed the player in the past). The red aoes on the second boss can be tough to follow, but that's more a fault of the explosion effect blocking so much vision imo - if I was gonna want one change in this dungeon, it'd be to tone that down some, but otherwise I've been dealing with it by angling my camera down toward the ground to see the markers better. The only other changes I could even see them making that imo could make sense would be making those aoe's a little slower and a little less flashy, and possibly making it more obvious that the doom on the first boss is a doom (I'm a dps main and have a bad habit of tunneling so I actually didn't know it was a doom myself until somebody pointed it out). I don't really think it needs to change, but also wouldn't be opposed to small things like that.

There are visual indicators. Stop looking for orange aoes and start looking at what's actually happening around you. See drones lining up around the boss pointed outwards? That is probably a lot of cone/line aoes or a donut aoe. See rotating aoes around the arena? Follow behind a set and you won't get hit. See red aoes moving outwards in a line with small safe spots? Stand between the first set and then move before the second set hits. Ignore the flashy indicators and focus on what is actually happening. It is a far cry from Extreme/Savage content, I promise.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

I've seen more wipes in Keeper of the Lake, no joke. Which is to say, I've seen several wipes in Keeper and zero in Dead Ends. People seemed to struggle more with tree doggo in Don Mheg than with Buff Lazer Turret in Dead Ends, at least from what I've seen so far.

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Press X to doubt.

While I'm in total agreement that it's really not as difficult as the OP claims, there are several points that throw a lot of players off.

1. There is literally a doom mechanic on the first boss which isn't obvious unless you mouseover the ailment (needs to be Esuna'd). I've seen healers focus entirely on curing the damage from the puddles and not realise impending death was coming up.

2. Second boss scatters a ton of AoE all over the place. This includes those diagonal lasers while still trying to dodge circular AoE around the edges. No Future also dumps a ton of overlapping AoE markers which almost inevitably catches out at least one player and deals a fair amount of damage. The lasers also have a much bigger hitbox than you would anticipate from the size of the glowing orbs. Melee get caught out by this a lot.

3. Another doom mechanic (this one requiring you to restore HP to full) in the final boss as well as high raid-wide damage (Warm Glow).

I've run this dungeon a fair number of times on different jobs, so I've seen it from all three angles. Tank, DPS and heal. It is, in my opinion, the dungeon which catches out the most players on their first playthrough - especially if going in blind. I agree it's far from extreme trial fights, but I do feel it's a bit disingenuous to completely disregard their arguments. Personally, I enjoyed the greater challenge. No worse than the final dungeon of Shadowbringers MSQ overall (can't count how many kept falling off the arena on final boss there!), but I can at least understand their points.

I mean, I'm also visually impaired and i have no trouble running dead ends. People get mad because most of the bosses have instant death mechanics that will most likely catch you off guard the first time you walk in. My best friend is a Perfect Legend healer, and he seemed dead in the water the first time we ran the place, we wiped like 5 times total by the time we had figured out every mechanic in the dungeon.

The only mechanic I legitimately have trouble seeing on the floor is prance. So I have to improvise and hope to only get hit once, save a heal to survive the subsequent AoE and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Press X to doubt.

While I'm in total agreement that it's really not as difficult as the OP claims, there are several points that throw a lot of players off.

1. There is literally a doom mechanic on the first boss which isn't obvious unless you mouseover the ailment (needs to be Esuna'd). I've seen healers focus entirely on curing the damage from the puddles and not realise impending death was coming up.

2. Second boss scatters a ton of AoE all over the place. This includes those diagonal lasers while still trying to dodge circular AoE around the edges. No Future also dumps a ton of overlapping AoE markers which almost inevitably catches out at least one player and deals a fair amount of damage. The lasers also have a much bigger hitbox than you would anticipate from the size of the glowing orbs. Melee get caught out by this a lot.

3. Another doom mechanic (this one requiring you to restore HP to full) in the final boss as well as high raid-wide damage (Warm Glow).

I've run this dungeon a fair number of times on different jobs, so I've seen it from all three angles. Tank, DPS and heal. It is, in my opinion, the dungeon which catches out the most players on their first playthrough - especially if going in blind. I agree it's far from extreme trial fights, but I do feel it's a bit disingenuous to completely disregard their arguments. Personally, I enjoyed the greater challenge. No worse than the final dungeon of Shadowbringers MSQ overall (can't count how many kept falling off the arena on final boss there!), but I can at least understand their points.

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I mean by all means doubt me, but I really was just sharing my (of course anecdotal) experience. I've seen groups wipe to trash in Keeper and Don Mheg, I've seen groups wipe multiple times in a row to the first and last boss in Keeper, I've seen groups fail to deal with the tethers on Tree Dog in Don Mheg and wipe more than once because of it (despite me explaining what to do), etc. etc. I mean I've also run both of those dungeons more than this one, maybe I've just been lucky so far, but I've seen and had less problems with Dead Ends than I have with other dungeons in the past.

While I'm, again, 99% sure the OP is trolling, just based on their other posts on page 1, I also have acknowledged the dungeon has some tricky mechanics. I just also think saying it's egregiously more difficult than any other dungeon in the game just isn't true, and to say it's indicative of a trend toward making story content "hardcore" is disingenuous at best and absurd at worst. (Edit to clarify I'm not saying that's your claim or anything, just... in general. To the thread and the sentiment of it)

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Originally Posted by Reaver1236

For players who just want to do the story, there should not be mechanics that you only see in Extreme or Savage. What is Square Enix thinking putting all these ridiculously difficult mechanics in a dungeon boss like Exaflares or the second boss's ridiculous amount of AoEs? The issue is there is no obvious tells for what the solution to the mechanics are and they are totally new so unless you look up a MrHappy or MTQ guide there's no way to know how those mechanics work. After so many people complained about Mist Dragon and The Heroes' Gauntlet how come Square Enix still insists on making dungeons harder and harder? Please stop lol

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dungeons are there to teach u raid mechanics too u know