Our Azem - A secret plan? (Slight EW Spoilers)

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I wonder then what goal (if any) all 14 sundered Azem clones (I’m gonna call them clones for now) might’ve been working toward…

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It's all very ambiguous how it worked, but I don't think Azem would have a way of communicating with the other Azems even if they know they're out there. The Ascians have the power to traverse the rift but they have to give up their physical bodies to do so, and as covered in the course of the story, there's no other known way for mortals to cross the rift until the Future Ironworks in the bad timeline work it out.

Additionally, Azem may not have been on talking terms with the remnants of the Convocation at that point.

I'm not convinced that they would necessarily have a post-Sundering plan at all beyond each one independently "keep on Azemming and helping people as best I can in this strange new reality".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's all very ambiguous how it worked, but I don't think Azem would have a way of communicating with the other Azems even if they know they're out there. The Ascians have the power to traverse the rift but they have to give up their physical bodies to do so, and as covered in the course of the story, there's no other known way for mortals to cross the rift until the Future Ironworks in the bad timeline work it out.

Additionally, Azem may not have been on talking terms with the remnants of the Convocation at that point.

I'm not convinced that they would necessarily have a post-Sundering plan at all beyond each one independently "keep on Azemming and helping people as best I can in this strange new reality".

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I agree it seems difficult for each shard to communicate - but perhaps Azem had a plan already set in motion before the sundering? Given this slightly less apocalyptic version of Venat’s sundering - I could see Azem (and friends) working on a plan of some sort to be put in motion post-sundering.

I’d still like to know why Azem wasn’t on team Zokiark or team Venat. There’s a story point missing there…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I wonder then what goal (if any) all 14 sundered Azem clones (I’m gonna call them clones for now) might’ve been working toward…

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Assuming the memory wipe happened right at the Sundering, then previous dispositions may be in play. And by that, I mean Azem's natural disposition towards helping people and exploring the world. Azem himself did it, the WoL does it, Ardbert did it, it seems that certain things are just hardcoded into a soul...like Hermes and Amon's nihilism.

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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Considering that their common trait was creation magick it might have an affect on how their descendants would develop, creation magick being unconciously used after being sundered. (just a theory though, don't know the mechanics of magic too much)

I wouldn't count on Varis having the whole truth. Wasn't his plan more or less 'do all the rejoinings, and then mankind will be perfect again and we can kill the ascians' seemingly ignorant of who the ascians actually were?

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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(Part 1 of 2)

Yeah. This is why I was inclined to think the Ryne scene with Emet wasn’t literal when it came to the planets. This info seemed to put forward the sundering was more alchemical - rather than a simple copy/paste. That the elements of the source/original planet were scattered and used to make entirely new things (while bits and pieces of their original selves stayed apparently). That’s why I thought Venat killed everyone - because in this case, she did - but she used all the little pieces to make brand new people on each new planet. In this case, the Azem she knew died - but their soul was sundered to “power” 14 new beings. So yes, she technically killed everyone in this case - because the people they were originally, were each destroyed to make 14 new people.

But I also found the remnants of Amaurot confusing on the first. If there are identical ruins left over on each reflection, then I would be more inclined to believe the copy/paste version of the sundering. And then we’d be working with the “14 Azem” version of events.

My personal understanding was that the sundering wasn’t gentle - nor was it organized. It ripped the planet apart - scattering pieces between the reflections, creating new life on each one - and leaving pieces of the original planet in ruins (like those discovered on the first).

I’m open to either version of the sundering. Either the “broken down into components” version, or the “14 Azem” one. I imagine the writers are playing a bit fast and loose here too.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The sundered Ancients are referred to as "malformed creatures" by the unsundered with Varis commenting back in SB that the sundering is the reason the different races exist.

https://i.imgur.com/4abHqBS.jpg

I'm not certain that the Ancients would've been sundered into exact replicas, but there isn't much in game to go on and the Ryne scene could be easily dismissed as a simple demonstration to get the point across. If they were identical, then that's some advanced evolution at play shrinking them down to a fraction of the size with some developing bestial attributes.

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(Part 2 of 2)

Given the quote above - it’s possible Varis meant that the “14 Azem” scenario lead to new races evolving down the line, and not that the sundering itself was the direct cause.

But it can just as easily be taken literally - meaning one original Azem got ripped apart, their elemental parts were scattered over 14 new planets - and those parts, each sharing a piece of a memory wiped soul - became a new person with the possibility of also being an entirely new race.

I’d also believe Azem (and their friends) were personally responsible for the new races. As Azem seemed to be a non-conformist, I could see them, and their friends all marching around looking however they pleased appearance-wise. This might also be the solution to showing Azem down the line in-game. If you’re playing a cat-person, Azem shows up as a cat person - because that’s the form they chose to take. Then when the sundering happens - original cat-person Azem gets split apart to make 14 identical cat-person Azems, who each start that race on their respective shards. (Maybe their rebellious friends also take the forms of the different races).

It’s unfortunate that the sundering itself is still murky - as I was hoping for some pay-off in EW as to what happened to the originator of our character’s soul. But there’s still plenty of time to explore that part of the story.

I’m hoping we get to learn more - but until then I happy to speculate (:

Do we have any interviews or supplementary lore that would confirm which version of the sundering is the way it went down?

Did we have literally 14 Azem on 14 identical planets?

Or did we have 14 new planets with pieces of the original scattered around - used to make entirely new people (“powered” by pieces of old souls).

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I think it's possible Azem may have been busy frying a completely different fish. We still have no idea why the Sound itself was coming from inside the planet.

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I can't agree with this more! Before they introduced Meteion, I was 1000% positive the keening was Lavos / Jenova / Planet Parasite within the star and our Azem had gone down to deal with the problem head on (seal it / weaken it / put it to sleep / w/e). The entire story seemed to heavily imply this was why Azem left. Azem is a traveler that solves problems through friendship / companions. It was obviously pointing to their final trial. However, with Endwalker, I'm definitely taking a second look at this. Since there was no issue within the star (it's explicitly said the sound didn't come from within but outside in Endwalker which was a super retcon that they could of course retcon again), where was our Azem at this point? I truly hope there is an alternative way to help the unsundered world, but it very much seems like due to the dialogue of Emet / rest of the ancient trio, it's done.

They tried and failed to save their world. We tried and succeeded thanks to Venat and well ourselves playing a 12,000yr long game. They're going to the aetherial sea and we're to continue our journey. I'm positive the XIV team won't let this plot point rot, but it had me pretty sad that I'm still left wondering with this being the final expansion for this 10yr saga.

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Originally Posted by LittleArrow

I can't agree with this more! Before they introduced Meteion, I was 1000% positive the keening was Lavos / Jenova / Planet Parasite within the star and our Azem had gone down to deal with the problem head on (seal it / weaken it / put it to sleep / w/e). The entire story seemed to heavily imply this was why Azem left. Azem is a traveler that solves problems through friendship / companions. It was obviously pointing to their final trial. However, with Endwalker, I'm definitely taking a second look at this. Since there was no issue within the star (it's explicitly said the sound didn't come from within but outside in Endwalker which was a super retcon that they could of course retcon again), where was our Azem at this point? I truly hope there is an alternative way to help the unsundered world, but it very much seems like due to the dialogue of Emet / rest of the ancient trio, it's done.

They tried and failed to save their world. We tried and succeeded thanks to Venat and well ourselves playing a 12,000yr long game. They're going to the aetherial sea and we're to continue our journey. I'm positive the XIV team won't let this plot point rot, but it had me pretty sad that I'm still left wondering with this being the final expansion for this 10yr saga.

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Yeah, I too hope we learn more about Azem. I wouldn’t worry too much about this being “the last” part of the story. I think the creators might be using a bit of an exaggeration in their wording. Certainly stories are wrapping up - but there’s definitely more to explore and I doubt they’re leaving it alone.

I‘ll change my tune though if we find out Azem truly does have something to do with the 12 (along with maybe Azem’s Scion-parallel friends). We may wind up wrapping that part of the story then.

I have a feeling Azem is long-game story telling though. I’d buy the theory that we’re Azem, and the true final expansion of the game is about us ensuring our friends’ futures, while securing that past with a stable time loop.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I’m a little confused on this notion people keep bringing up about the sundering being a copy/past job. Is there any lore pointing to this idea that somehow the sundering created 14 identical versions of each person sundered? That the sundering made 14 identical planets with copies of all the people sundered on each one? I haven’t read anything stating this was the case.

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Amaurot and Anyder are on the first including the concept that the Ancients created. That would not have happened if the First was created completely new. Emet shows us the sundering by making a copy of Ryne. Also the shards of the sundered people exist on these planets. See Ardbert who was also a shard of Azem. And see all those callback NPCs that even nearly look identical to the source version.

Varis only knows what Elidibus told him. He saw his own race being inferior by not being able to cast magic and probably hoped that after the rejoinings he and his people would be whole again thus able to fight the Ascians. All of course under the banner of Garlemald. That the Ascians basically planned to take out the empire too and that the rest of the surviving whole people on the source would be sacrificed to get the souls in Zodiark back was probably not known to him.

Also we dont really know when the new races sprung up. Seeing how Meteion and her sisters were created it could very well be that the races were all creations by the Ancients before the sundering that got souls. After the Final Days they could have been recreated by Zodiark in the second sacrifice and later then be the races were any new sentient/sapient soul was reborn into including Amaurotines (and lets not forget, all the souls of Ancient ones that perished in the Final Days before it reached Amaurotine)

We sadly really have no idea how it happened after the sundering. All we know are some small hints ingame that IMO paints the picture that everyone was basically just splitt including the planets. Maybe after the sundering the Ancients bodies just became smaller and thus the Hyur race was born.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

We still have no idea why the Sound itself was coming from inside the planet.

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Wait. Sorry I'm off topic but about this; I understood Meteion was manipulating both ether and dynamis, so that in the end the "Sound" was just that, Meteion triggering things from afar, all under a (heavy-handed) metaphor about sound, song and singing. Her power would cause the disasters on the planet and mutate people into monsters. And the "sound from the planet" was just a poetic way of describing it for people that didn't know what caused it.
Did I invent that? I don't feel they actually left the sound from the earth unresolved for something coming up, but I might have read a bit too deep (and I was very tired during the Elpis part)

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Amaurot and Anyder are on the first including the concept that the Ancients created. That would not have happened if the First was created completely new. Emet shows us the sundering by making a copy of Ryne. Also the shards of the sundered people exist on these planets. See Ardbert who was also a shard of Azem. And see all those callback NPCs that even nearly look identical to the source version... (snipped for space)

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This is beginning to make sense to me.

I think we can say with relative safety that if you looked at each of the 14 sundered planets, one second after the Sundering took place, then you’d see 14 identical planets - each with an identical Azem on it. The geography, cities, roads, and potted plants are all identical. Every blade of grass too.

After that second though - things each began to diverge.

On the First, that Azem might’ve dusted themself off, and gone on to begin solving whatever task they were set upon.

Meanwhile on the Second, Azem is almost immediately crushed by a toppling building, and that soul-shard is sent back to the livestream.

On the Third - Azem starts a punk rock band.

And so on.

Eventually all Azems die. (Maybe. I would believe we have at least one Azem left over somewhere). The dead Azems get reincarnated as new people, with no memory of being Azems. This happens for everyone on every sundered planet. Eventually the original cities and libraries get destroyed or sink into the sea. New civilizations rise and fall. New races evolve. Spriggans rule for a brief, very dark period of time. Eventually we get to current day.

(“Current day” is tricky because apparently time has a loose relationship between each reflection. One planet may have existed for 1000 years post-sundering, while on another it’s only been a few minutes since the sundering.)

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

(“Current day” is tricky because apparently time has a loose relationship between each reflection. One planet may have existed for 1000 years post-sundering, while on another it’s only been a few minutes since the sundering.)

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There's still a definite shared "current day" from shard to shard even if the lengths of time since the Sundering differ.

As far as we've been made aware, at least, time is still moving forward on each shard and if you, say, travel from Source to First and back again you are always only in one place across all the shards at any given time, and you'll return to the Source later than you left it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

There's still a definite shared "current day" from shard to shard even if the lengths of time since the Sundering differ.

As far as we've been made aware, at least, time is still moving forward on each shard and if you, say, travel from Source to First and back again you are always only in one place across all the shards at any given time, and you'll return to the Source later than you left it.

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This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

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He said that the passage of time normally differs on the source and the first. Sometimes going faster sometimes going slower and that at the beginning of SHB when we are pulled there the passage of time aligned to be almost near synchronis between the two. Case in fact as well while we were on the first time passed on the source much slower. Slow enough that by Tataru's reckoning we came back earlier than she thought we would at the end of base SHB.

Not to mention the time between our battle with Ardbert and Co and them going back to the first and then when we finally do end up going there 100 years had passed.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

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This was one of the many reasons why I wanted to strangle Emet when he was doing his speech about the Sundering and how awful that suddenly there were fourteen copies of the world and everyone on it. Yes, the loss of memory of your friends is a tragedy- but they are alive still, the world is alive and not in a backwards-facing escalated sacrifice to Zodiark, and most of all, not only do you have one chance to remake your friendships, you have fourteen. Fourteen chances to screw up- or fourteen chances to have a life. He could have been shard-hoping to hang out with multiple versions of a life- running multiple alts on a game to use the metaphor- but understandably he wants that old deleted (and corrupted) save file where the godmode was unlocked.

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

This isnt constant though, Exarch boy mentions this in early shadowbringers that the timezones are aligned but not usually so (unless im misremembering)

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The speed of time is different and the "X years since the Sundering" date will vary, but when you teleport from Source to First you are moving from "in the Source right now" to "in the First right now". There are corresponding points in time across each shard, moving forward at whatever speed they're moving.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

This was one of the many reasons why I wanted to strangle Emet when he was doing his speech about the Sundering and how awful that suddenly there were fourteen copies of the world and everyone on it. Yes, the loss of memory of your friends is a tragedy- but they are alive still, the world is alive and not in a backwards-facing escalated sacrifice to Zodiark, and most of all, not only do you have one chance to remake your friendships, you have fourteen. Fourteen chances to screw up- or fourteen chances to have a life. He could have been shard-hoping to hang out with multiple versions of a life- running multiple alts on a game to use the metaphor- but understandably he wants that old deleted (and corrupted) save file where the godmode was unlocked.

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I agree on some levels - but if everyone’s memory is wiped (or muddled) but they do realize they’ve lost their powers of creation - I could see a great many of Emet’s friends being frightened, sad, or in some cases - turn nasty.

I wouldn’t put it past the writers to have an evil Azem - who was bummed out about losing their powers. Facing such a situation, I could see Emet being very upset.

OR, Emet planet hopped, and tried to fix everything for each planet, working with the 14 Azems - until the Azems all died of natural causes - growing old and feeble alongside the near immortal Emet. The plans that Emet and the Azems put together all eventually fell apart. The beings of the 14 descended into war and chaos - and Emet began to plot an entirely new game plan - in the absence of his friend’s companionship.

Emet might be justifiably upset - but I don’t condone his actions.

Emet's grief- and the classic fantasy trope of immortal being surrounded by mortal friends therefore growing detached and callous towards them is a classic trope for a reason. ShB made the Ascians motives understandable - but it did nothing to convince me to join them and I felt very little regret in killing off Emet for good nor do I have love for the pre-Sundered world and society. My fondest wish was that when we killed Emet at the end of 6.0 that we had somehow Sundered his soul, therefore making him the same as not only Azem but also the Garlean family (and who knows how many other families) that he lost and was pretending not to mourn. The cruelest act of the Sundering was that there were at least four UnSundered still around.

Like Moose, my hope for Myths of the Realm is that it reveals that the Twelve were Venat's companions-in-the-conspiracy or constructs she made like The Watcher who functioned as the opposite of the Ascians- a group who worked post-Sundering and first Calamity not to worsen society but to rebuild and nurture it.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

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If the sundered worlds seem as horrible to him as he makes out – and from the side stories it sounds like the world looks aetherially awful compared to how it was – then he might not have wanted to seek out his friend at all and see them in that state. And/or there might be some kind of relationship breakdown after Azem walked out on the Convocation and one of them doesn't want to see the other.

Plus once a person dies it seems like it might be difficult to find their reborn soul again. It sounds like they have difficulty with it when needing to raise up new replacement Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

Like Moose, my hope for Myths of the Realm is that it reveals that the Twelve were Venat's companions-in-the-conspiracy or constructs she made like The Watcher who functioned as the opposite of the Ascians- a group who worked post-Sundering and first Calamity not to worsen society but to rebuild and nurture it.

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Mentioning the Watcher reminds me – I think they said in passing something about being based on a specific person? I wonder if that's significant. (And will have to double-check exactly what they said.)

I’m cool with all this - but I still want to know what happened to our Azem. Did they retain their autonomy - or did Venat take that from them by either wiping their memory, or disassembling them to make new people?

Right now it seems like we’re dealing with 14 Azem clones spread across 14 planets. I think that makes sense.

The next question is what did these Azems get to keep of themselves. Did Venat leave them befuddled and sorta kinda memory-wiped?

Or did they retain their memories - while also realizing they were fundamentally different. Less powerful. No creation magic. Mortal.

Either option is kinda dire.

If Azem had foreknowledge that this would happen - and was able to retain their memory - then I’d put forward they likely had or were part of a plan to help rebuild/nurture/guide the new societies that would emerge on each reflection.

If they didn’t retain their memories - then they sort of had their lives stolen from them - which could lead to confusion and chaos.

I still think the Azem character is being held back for use is a secret storyline - but that storyline will be deeply affected by what shape Azem was in right after the sundering took place.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I’m cool with all this - but I still want to know what happened to our Azem. Did they retain their autonomy - or did Venat take that from them by either wiping their memory, or disassembling them to make new people?

Right now it seems like we’re dealing with 14 Azem clones spread across 14 planets. I think that makes sense.

The next question is what did these Azems get to keep of themselves. Did Venat leave them befuddled and sorta kinda memory-wiped?

Or did they retain their memories - while also realizing they were fundamentally different. Less powerful. No creation magic. Mortal.

Either option is kinda dire.

If Azem had foreknowledge that this would happen - and was able to retain their memory - then I’d put forward they likely had or were part of a plan to help rebuild/nurture/guide the new societies that would emerge on each reflection.

If they didn’t retain their memories - then they sort of had their lives stolen from them - which could lead to confusion and chaos.

I still think the Azem character is being held back for use is a secret storyline - but that storyline will be deeply affected by what shape Azem was in right after the sundering took place.

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First of all, 14 clones of Azem spread across 14 planets or you are talking about WOL that housed 9/14 of Azem's soul while you still have five of them in the different reflections (now that would be another story to tell).

To me, when the stage curtains rising again for the second act, I would love to see about Azem's whereabouts because I believe Azem has another task that was important enough to disagree with his/her predecessor - Venat and going against two of the best friends in the world in Emet and Hythlodaeus. Pandæmonium is the intermission to this part of the story.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Mentioning the Watcher reminds me – I think they said in passing something about being based on a specific person? I wonder if that's significant. (And will have to double-check exactly what they said.)

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It's probably Eric from Pandaemonium. He's only good at chaining and locking things up, which would make basing The Watcher on him a perfect idea, since he's already a Warden in a sense.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's probably Eric from Pandaemonium. He's only good at chaining and locking things up, which would make basing The Watcher on him a perfect idea, since he's already a Warden in a sense.

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You know that GIF of the man motioning to his forehead and the overlay of a star exploding? That's what your comment has done to me. Especially with the idea that if the Ascian Lahabrea is Eric's dad, then the irony of Contruct!Eric yet again in eons long opposition to his father and hiding/avoiding each other and acting as the Warden chaining up his father's too dangerous to be free but too beneficial to destroy creation is a poetic parallel.

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Originally Posted by NekiUno

First of all, 14 clones of Azem spread across 14 planets or you are talking about WOL that housed 9/14 of Azem's soul while you still have five of them in the different reflections (now that would be another story to tell).

To me, when the stage curtains rising again for the second act, I would love to see about Azem's whereabouts because I believe Azem has another task that was important enough to disagree with his/her predecessor - Venat and going against two of the best friends in the world in Emet and Hythlodaeus. Pandæmonium is the intermission to this part of the story.

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I’d like to know what Azem was up to as well (:

But to clarify - the going theory (apparently) is that when Venat sundered her world - she created 14 exact copies of her planet, and everyone on them. That means there were 14 “original” Azems - one on each planet - the moment after the Sundering. They were each a copy of the original in looks and personality. Just like every sundered person - these Azems were all reduced in power, and left without creation magic.

To further complicate the matter - it appears that everyone who came out the other end of the Sundering - was left without memories of what happened and possibly what came before.

If the last part is true - I think Azem (and their Scion-like friends) would take offense in the memory-wipe aspect of the Sundering (and possibly in the sundering itself) and they would have likely been working to find an alternative to the Sundering. Just like our character was trying to find an alternative to the Forum (and Venat’s) plan to abandon the planet (and billions of people) to escape to the stars.

Now, we know some of these original Azems died, and their reincarnated souls eventual made their way to our character. We don’t know the status of the remaining Azem shards though. One or two could still even be Azem. A few could be reincarnated shards still following the original Azem’s plans. One could have even become evil. Who knows…

But figuring out Azem’s reaction/knowledge to/about the Sundering is key.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It's probably Eric from Pandaemonium. He's only good at chaining and locking things up, which would make basing The Watcher on him a perfect idea, since he's already a Warden in a sense.

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Originally Posted by Denishia

You know that GIF of the man motioning to his forehead and the overlay of a star exploding? That's what your comment has done to me. Especially with the idea that if the Ascian Lahabrea is Eric's dad, then the irony of Contruct!Eric yet again in eons long opposition to his father and hiding/avoiding each other and acting as the Warden chaining up his father's too dangerous to be free but too beneficial to destroy creation is a poetic parallel.

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That makes a heck of a lot of sense and it lets Erich be someone ongoingly relevant without him having to turn out to be "our" Lahabrea, plus if it's an AI copy and not actually him, it still frees his soul up for being reincarnated as Claudien.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That makes a heck of a lot of sense and it lets Erich be someone ongoingly relevant without him having to turn out to be "our" Lahabrea, plus if it's an AI copy and not actually him, it still frees his soul up for being reincarnated as Claudien.

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I wonder if this will link up to the source’s post-sundering 1/14 Azem copy? There’s the secret message on the Crystal to contend with… and there could be tons of ways for the 1/14 Azem to get to the moon right after the sundering.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I wonder if this will link up to the source’s post-sundering 1/14 Azem copy? There’s the secret message on the Crystal to contend with… and there could be tons of ways for the 1/14 Azem to get to the moon right after the sundering.

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After doing the recent Studium quests, I don't think this will link to Azem. The Studium quests heavily hint to problems with the Lifestream after Zodiark's death. If those problems were back during the Ancients time and Azem noticed it originally, then perhaps the 2nd Main Story of the game will delve into that problem along with Azem. Perhaps a time travel at some point during the storyline would have us meet the original Azem and explain to them what's going on, which would actually fill in the blanks. It would explain why they'd know about Pandaemonium, why they ignored Venat, everything. We literally told ourselves the problem that needed to be gone after, that the issue with Zodiark and Venat didn't need to be touched, and Azem, trusting us/themselves immensely, rushed towards discovering the solution to the problem.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

After doing the recent Studium quests, I don't think this will link to Azem. The Studium quests heavily hint to problems with the Lifestream after Zodiark's death. If those problems were back during the Ancients time and Azem noticed it originally, then perhaps the 2nd Main Story of the game will delve into that problem along with Azem. Perhaps a time travel at some point during the storyline would have us meet the original Azem and explain to them what's going on, which would actually fill in the blanks. It would explain why they'd know about Pandaemonium, why they ignored Venat, everything. We literally told ourselves the problem that needed to be gone after, that the issue with Zodiark and Venat didn't need to be touched, and Azem, trusting us/themselves immensely, rushed towards discovering the solution to the problem.

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This is beginning to feel right to me. It’s possible we’ll find out Azem (or us as Azem) was bopping around all over the place setting up safeguards and post-sundering plans. There’s something interesting about being able to suddenly make 14 of something - and then spread that 14 somethings across 14 difficult to reach spots.

I’m still concerned for the well-fair/state of mind of Azem post-sundering. I’d like to think they had a plan that involved being split up 14 ways - to help solve some kind of problem. (A little army of Azems). But if they didn’t know the sundering was going to happen - then the results (and story) might be a bit more tragic.

Given that the 13th’s fall into darkness was very early in the post-sundering timeline - I wonder if that will come into play.

I could also see Azem and their friends trying to actually help Emet with the unsundering very early in the post-sundering world. At that point - it might have not even seemed like that bad of an idea - since all the people being re-merged were analogous to each other. The copied planets hadn’t had much time yet to diverge.

Maybe after the 13th though - Azem was like “bad idea.” And they parted ways with Emet’s plan.

Lots to consider in those first few moments post-sundering.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

We can't say that for sure. Maybe it's undetectable in the sky but reacts with the ground, or something.

It's possible that the Sound is caused by something else, but not impossible that Meteion's song caused it.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

I'm not saying that Meteion didn't cause it, I'm saying that she caused whatever made it to make it.

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Meteion was a telepath as well as an empath. It's entirely possible there wasn't a sound at all, as far as the air or ground vibrating goes.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

This is beginning to make sense to me.

What I find fascinating about this - is that we had Emet bopping from reflection to reflection. He got to meet 14 versions of his friend Azem - and who knows what transpired…

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Thats how I see it too. At the start we had 14 planets who are identical to each other with identical people and culture. And then these people may make different choices over time. And thus slowly the shards began to change. Then you had the poor source that got the calamities which changed much on it (and of course the poor shards that got destroyed). Who knows what life is on those other shards that never got such a calamity. Who knows how many relics of the ancient times are still there.

I do believe that every Azem died at least once. They are now mortal too and I doubt the time was so much off that barely any years have gone by on some shards. But who knows.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Mentioning the Watcher reminds me – I think they said in passing something about being based on a specific person? I wonder if that's significant. (And will have to double-check exactly what they said.)

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I think livingway mentioned that the origional Watcher was one of Venats group that worked towards creating the moon and the rabbits. Also I think the Watcher mentioned that Elpis was his name which is why he reacted to the Elpis flower.