Yoshida telling players to go play other games is very damaging to FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VBqTViEx4

Do not underestimate some ... forces in big companies. :)

Cheers

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And that is relevant to this particular discussion... how, exactly?

The entire thread is the OP saying that Yoshida telling people to take breaks "hurts" the game. Almost universally by the responses in this thread, that is a horrible take.

FFXIV respects the player's time. It doesn't demand that you marry it, and spend endless hours on its gear treadmill to remain relevant in the content that is out. It is HEALTHY to take breaks for any game for awhile, not just FFXIV. The developers of FFXIV have been using the schedule they have for years because it allows its playerbase to have a life outside of the game.

You linking that youtube video is an entirely different discussion based on marketing and PR of a game overtaking and stagnating the creative prowess of developers and inventors. It has nothing to do what so ever with the Yoshida quote in question that the OP stated is the purpose of the thread. If anything, that video would actually support YoshiP's stance and views, his approaches, etc... Because he's part of the development team, not part of the PR/Marketing/Sales department of SE.

Pretty sure Yoshida knows what's better for the game over a random forum poster who has opinions.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

how SE do not time gate you in FF14? or its just me that don't have the full content of 6.0/.5? there the time gate of tomes as well. then there the time gate of houses. people need to stop the stupid BS of "a company see's you as a person and not as a walking piggybank" to SE we all cash. to any company. they dont do it for free.

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It's more FFXIV doesn't require you continuously play its content to stay relevant. It's still a form of timegating but in WoW if you happen to take say, a six month break, you'll be hopelessly behind unless you binge an ungodly amount of hours just catching up. Whereas in FFXIV, you'll either be on the cusp of a gear reset or a dedicated catch up patch.

While I do agree FFXIV sometimes struggles with maintaining enough content in terms of longevity, its form of "timegating" is far and away superior to WoW's.

Facts: ff14 its huge success
wow failed

there's no argument that can deal with fact!

I find the “14 respects your time” comment quite funny when I look at Bozja, Eureka and the other relic grinds where you need multiple pieces of X which requires you to run the same content over and over, and a large amount of the community do no-life this stuff. So do these grinds respect your time?

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

I find the “14 respects your time” comment quite funny when I look at Bozja, Eureka and the other relic grinds where you need multiple pieces of X which requires you to run the same content over and over, and a large amount of the community do no-life this stuff. So do these grinds respect your time?

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Considering the fact that they are completely optional and in no-way 100% required... Yes, it does respect your time. You have the option of working on it over a large period of time, little by little. There's no time limit to getting them accomplished.

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Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

Considering the fact that they are completely optional and in no-way 100% required... Yes, it does respect your time. You have the option of working on it over a large period of time, little by little. There's no time limit to getting them accomplished.

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Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

Why is it a problem and damaging to the game if it has been working for the past 8 years now?

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

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indeed, it take a long time to get bozja relic weapon, BUT, have you seen how many steps is to have realm reborn relic? compared to bozja, Bozja weapon its very, very easy and short-time to get it, its the easiest relic weapon in ff14 history!

People keep bringing up Housing, and I honestly don't understand why they care so much. Housing in most games is such a nothing-burger. The only purpose it serves is a place to keep your stuff, and that's mainly in single player RPGs. When I'm immersing myself in the game, I find inns are my homes more than anywhere. Uldah's inn (Quicksand) in particular is where I go to lay my head and exit the game because it's my starting city.

Yes the housing system is flawed, but it has no value beyond that which you place on it. As such, the argument seems like sophistry. Yes I learned that word from Emet-Selch, no I'm not 100% sure if I used it correctly, and no I won't apologize for using a new word I learned no matter where I learned it.

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Originally Posted by Adonan

People keep bringing up Housing, and I honestly don't understand why they care so much. Housing in most games is such a nothing-burger. The only purpose it serves is a place to keep your stuff, and that's mainly in single player RPGs. When I'm immersing myself in the game, I find inns are my homes more than anywhere. Uldah's inn (Quicksand) in particular is where I go to lay my head and exit the game because it's my starting city.

Yes the housing system is flawed, but it has no value beyond that which you place on it. As such, the argument seems like sophistry. Yes I learned that word from Emet-Selch, no I'm not 100% sure if I used it correctly, and no I won't apologize for using a new word I learned no matter where I learned it.

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You don't rp then, also conan exiles poe your place is major. It has extreme worth as a rp hub, also gardening+chocobo Training

The messaging has work so far. Quiet frankly I wouldn't want to feel like I have to only play FF14 and only FF14.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. Infact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

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And yet in WoW you can still complete new patch content in a day. They still want you logging in every single day though. Next.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

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You're comparing two different things, here.

What people are referring to with regards to "respecting a player's time" is in regards to having to basically devote all your playtime to the game in order to stay current and relevant.

Adding an optional slice of content that requires a bit of work into it, in no way, is the same as having to devote countless playtime hours to a structure of "end game" like WoW has.

If you take a 3 month break in WoW, you're hopelessly behind and near out of luck.
If you take a 3 month break in XIV, you catch up in a week or two, depending on how casually you approach it.

Meh, I'd rather have this, then have the likely alternative of them putting in endless power grinds that force you into staying subbed the whole time. Though, if you have a house, you're also kind of forced to stay subbed.

How?
I don't wanna play this game 24/7 lmao.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

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That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the relic weapon content. Relic is supposed to be a slow, grindy, but casual way to get a relevant weapon (and only BiS in the .5 patch). And there's many systems in the relic process where you can take a weekly quest which will boost whatever you need in your current step. So you can log in a few times a week, get some content done, and you'll have your relic. Otherwise you can push it hardcore and get your weapon in a day.

In fact, you probably chose the exact kind of content that respects your time: Don't want to farm memories/clusters/anima/whatever? You can take it easy over the course of months and still get it. Grab your weekly quests and you'll still feel like you're making good progress. If you WANT to no-life it and get your relic NOW (usually not a thing people do until the substat customization stage, and even then raid weapons tend to have higher ilvl and main stats until the .5 patch) you can do it but there's no system forcing you to do it or you're always left behind.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Probably because its very easy to rile up and bait people in the forums

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It's not even riling people up. Actual troll threads tend to bring up controversial topics, or topics that have divided opinion among the community, and start a huge argument over them. People get riled up over those.

Nowadays, people post something stupid, have the majority of posters rightfully tell them it was stupid, then try to turn around and claim they "baited" them by "pretending" to be stupid and really did something clever. It's the lowest form of attention seeking and rather sad really. It's not even trolling, it's much more pathetic and trolling is already pathetic enough.

Poster A: (Posts something stupid)
Poster B: That sounds dumb.
Poster A: Hah! I made you post, baited lololol.

Doesn't look too good, does it.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

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Respecting your time doesn't mean "here's a hand out." They aren't intending for players to no-life relic grinds just like they don't expect you to farm 99 Primal tokens in two weeks. Content is designed with the more casual playerbase in mind, where you'll be able to log in and make some small progression towards a select goal over the span of months.

None of this is to say Bozja or the Shadowbringers relic grind would good. I, personally, have a lot of criticisms towards both. Nevertheless, that's really a different topic.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

When the director and producer of the game tells people to take break in between patches that means the dev team has designed the game in such a way that players can achieve everything in a new patch within a month. Thats good for casual players I guess. But what about hardcore players like me that plays all day? In WoW whenever I don't raid or farm mythic+, I continuously farm artifact power to get that 1% advantage over other players. But what does FFXIV provide outside of raids and dungeons that give players direct power advantage in the open world if players have the time to farm all day? The open world content in FFXIV is dreadful... fates provide no power gain advantage.

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That's what made WoW unfun for me. Constant chasing for player power isn't good for the game. Don't play FFXIV like a WoW clone, because it just isn't one.

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Originally Posted by Thoosa

Yeah but if it respected your time, wouldn’t they make the relic weapon really easy to get?

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its an optional glam item with a bit of prestige.. if EVERYONE could get one, it wouldnt be very special would it.

everyone and their dog has a bosja relic.. as such, its as special as dirt.

having something special if you choose to go after it.. is actually respecting your time. if you think "free" and "easy" is respecting your time, well, I have no words for you

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because it's an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. In Fact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

When I play an mmorpg I play it non stop for 10+ years without taking breaks and I am sure there are millions of players like me who think the same way. Majority of mmo players have no interest in single player games.

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I disagree. I feel it is beneficial to FFXIV, and the online gaming industry as a whole, to encourage players who are bored to take a break and try new things.

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

8 pages so far.

Not bad. People seem to really fall for the WoW Player bait threads recently.

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Sometimes... you kinda have to, even if obvious Bait.
Im forgetting what game it was, but on its forums, people would spout random nonsense about what should happen in the game. And because it was left unchallenged and let fester with no opposing Viewpoint, the devs thought it was universally agreed on was something the game needed and the playerbase wanted.
So they did it, and made the game worse. Then everyone complained that the Devs listened to the people..and its like....there was no resistance or counter arguments. "We did what the Fan wanted"

And so...even if I agree that we need to stop falling for dumb troll treads. To remain silent and bring No Rebuttables can make it appear like everybody agrees on it.

This game does have infinite time sinks, it's just found in ways besides raiding.

Fishing. Fishing achievements are insanely deep. Weather and time patterns so complex that most of us give up and used third party websites to track it. RNG being stingy on the boat. RNG being stingy on your catches. Insane catch triggers, ridiculous windows. Someone who has the title "Big Fish" has probably spent more time than a "Perfect Legend" did trying to grind that out.

Nothing wrong with other games. People don't have to only play one game.

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Originally Posted by Catwho

This game does have infinite time sinks, it's just found in ways besides raiding.

Fishing. Fishing achievements are insanely deep. Weather and time patterns so complex that most of us give up and used third party websites to track it. RNG being stingy on the boat. RNG being stingy on your catches. Insane catch triggers, ridiculous windows. Someone who has the title "Big Fish" has probably spent more time than a "Perfect Legend" did trying to grind that out.

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After I beat Endwalker and get to the point in which I feel like I have hit 'THE WALL' where I need to wait for more story i'm consiering one of two options:

Going ham on Fishing

or

Chocobo Breeding/Racing

He's a WoW enthusiast that is telling his players to play something else because he knows what WoW addiction can do to people and don't want his game doing the same thing.

Man, I wish the English forums had some mods...

I have noticed a lot of these threads lately. The WoW devs are desperate to get players back. Hey Ion Instead you and you devs coming here and talking down FFXIV go and actually work on your game and make it better. Put the Bottle down, Leave the intern alone and do some work for a change.

Actually, telling players to play other games in-between patches work well in long-term.


Think of the ones who do gym. They need rest days to recover after a heavy training session. If they keep doing without resting, they will wind up wounding themselves.


Same with playing games. Instead of keep trying playing the same games daily for years, it is better to take breaks and play something else when content drought happens. It helps avoiding making the game feel like a second job, or make you wonder why you even sub and log in when there is nothing you want to do. By taking break and come back later, you enjoy what other games offer, while have more contents to play.



Unlike WoW or Korean MMORPGs where they punish you for skipping grinds, FF14 is made to let you catch up with the latest contents easily, which means you can easy getting in, as well as getting out without worrying about missing anything important. Even if you own a house, you can take a break of 44 days before subbing and refresh your house demolition timer.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because its an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. Infact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

When I play an mmorpg I play it non stop for 10+ years without taking breaks and I am sure there are millions of players like me who think the same way. Majority of mmo players have no interest in single player games.

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Another WoW thread.. yeah no.

You guys are into that kinda tribalism, every other gamer plays more than one thing. Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because its an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW. Infact he gives players new ideas on how to play WoW differently when they get bored or during a content drought but never once he said to take a break.

When I play an mmorpg I play it non stop for 10+ years without taking breaks and I am sure there are millions of players like me who think the same way. Majority of mmo players have no interest in single player games.

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Why is it damaging? Most people play other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Why is it damaging? Most people play other MMOs.

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Some of the die-hard WoW fans don't get the concept of playing multiple MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

Some of the die-hard WoW fans don't get the concept of playing multiple MMOs.

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Honestly i wouldn't even call wow a mmo.. It was really just a huge greed scam even from the start there were better mmos than Wow.. it just got popular because *cough* wow players are basically like that south park episode lol.

In all seriousness Dark age of Camelot ever quest and many other free to play mmos existed that were way better than wow (like big time better). The thing about wow is you had 2 types of players that played the game. The overweight no lifers who sit around eating hotpockets and doing raids 24/7 and people who did same with pvp. Then you had people sitting around in one of the main towns erp or talking about politics tricking people to lash out. That was basicly all wow ever was a zest pool of human filth

It's better for people to take breaks and come back than it is for them to just keep playing and burn themselves out.

I used to play a lot of grindy ass Korean MMOs out there that demanded all of your free time to get anywhere. Moving to FFXIV turned out to be one of the most liberating decisions I've ever made.

Most notably, when the lockdowns began and my workload dramatically shot up through the roof (I work at a pharmacy), I was basically forced to retire from the raiding scene and take a break from the game for a whole year and a half, and explored a bunch of single player games in the meantime. I would pop back into FFXIV from time to time to do some small catch up on things, but never did I feel like I was being completely left behind.

If this was like any other MMO, I would have had zero desire to come back, knowing that a grind that was essentially insurmountable awaited me.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

Some of the die-hard WoW fans don't get the concept of playing multiple MMOs.

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or just doing something else for a month...

i mean IF wow was fun all the time one might have an argument (still a bad one, but at least some sort of point) but going by the constantly dropping player numbers even before the mass exodus it obviously isn't, so the whole "wow allways offers me something to do" is a flat out lie, if not to others than to oneself. it doesn't "offer" you anything, it "encourages" you to "play" even if you don't want to anymore, that's not offering content, that's abuse.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Meh, I'd rather have this, then have the likely alternative of them putting in endless power grinds that force you into staying subbed the whole time. Though, if you have a house, you're also kind of forced to stay subbed.

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You only need to be subscribed about 40% of the year to keep a house if you time it properly.

One month subbed then six weeks unsubbed. Repeat.

Buying a house in a game you rarely want to play when the only way to enjoy the house is to play the game is rather illogical. There are other games to play with better housing systems and no risk of loss that are a better choice.

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Originally Posted by Veranolth

Some of the die-hard WoW fans don't get the concept of playing multiple MMOs.

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To be fair, it's not just WoW players. We see it even here - players coming into the forum complaining that they've run out of things to do. Some people have the idea that once they've paid for a game, that game should be able to babysit them 24/7 so they don't have to spend money on other games.

You'll also find it in Guild Wars 2, and in ESO (though I don't think it's as strong with ESO players from what I've seen).

The problem for WoW players is that once upon a time the game was really enjoyable and you didn't feel chained to a treadmill. You wanted to play as opposed to feeling like you needed to play. It's hard to reconcile what it has become with what it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Neuron

Noaki Yoshida in one interview told that if players are bored with the game or if they have completed all PVE content then they should take a break and come back in the next patch. Frankly speaking this is very damaging to the game and to square enix as a whole because its an mmorpg and players play mmorpg to commit long term. Look at the WoW director, Ion Hazzikotas. He never told players to take a single break from WoW.

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Which is just one example of why WOW is losing players and FFXIV is gaining them.

Also "commit long term" doesn't mean "Play it 7 days a week like working a job", of course in the case of WOW that's EXACTLY the type of game Hazzikotas delivers for his boss, Kotick, "engagement" is the only thing Activision care about.

Actually, if you think about it, Blizzard do everything they can to encourage 6-month subs, probably BECAUSE they know players are likely to go elsewhere if they can simply sub a month at a time.

man this december has lot of quality bait ever since launch of EW, we got....

- thread asking to remove lalafel because its creepy according to him
- thread saying SE being lazy not to upgrade the graphic etc etc
- and now thread saying yoshi asking everyone to go play other game is damaging the ff14

and off course the one who made it the usual new account, join on this december and has post barely 2 digits

moving on