My Horrible experience with most (not all) WoW players in FFXIV so far

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

when did society become this way

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Always has been

most of the toxicity revolving around ff and wow, have been from ff players to oncoming wow players. ive only seen a salty wow > ff player maybe once but they werent salty over ff in general just the lack of customizations when it came to character identity and how most players play pale skinned cat girls

Lmao these threads. Dude FF is just as toxic. Death threats to those who criticize the game as if you criticize the game.. its like attacking a person's identity. Because they have no identity and FF is all there is to those. Second there is a ton of drama socially in the game. Get over it. Ff has plenty of toxicity.. dont try to scapegoat wow players. FF has real problems.. but too many are in a honeymoon phase with the game to see it.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

When I said '' just report him '' he stopped and began ranting basically saying '' gcbtw '' in a mocking way

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X to doubt. GCBTW as a meme is butter to FFXIV's bread.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I love every one of these threads or "horror stories" because more than half boil down to ascribing scary WoW Refugee status on the garden variety troll

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Quote to repeat myself.

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Originally Posted by Supay

so these WoW players not only think they are a huge part of FFXIV (which is far from reality), they also think we must change our way to play to fit their needs otherwise you will be reported.

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You think this is unique just to the new WoW players coming in? We literally had two different threads in less than a month complaining how toxic and unfair the "rush, rush, rush" mentality is. There's a nigh constant argument about who should pull, whether it's toxic or new players' experiences are being ruined by veterans. Frankly, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've come a WoW player with this mentality. I've certainly seen it from XIV players. Likewise, the same "reckless" mentality has been prevalent in XIV for years. Hell, my first time going through The Royal Menagerie back in Stormblood, we had a WAR who instantly pulled and died to Tidal Wave four consecutive times. Even when the healers were explaining mechanics, he'd bulldoze in. When we finally made a comment; asking him to stop. He whined how we were ruining his fun and pulled again because he couldn't be bothered to wait. And died to Tidal Wave one last time for good measure after announcing to all us "I did it right the last time!"

This has nothing to do with WoW players and just bad players being bad.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Why are you assuming that player came from WoW? I've run into players behaving the same way in other games. A lot of them have never played WoW because they only play games on consoles and WoW is PC.

It's not a WoW specific problem. It's not even a MMO or gaming industry specific problem. It's a maturity problem, with social media goading people into acting like idiots for the attention it brings.

Let's leave WoW out of it and look at the real source- the person at the controller/keyboard and the society that encourages the behavior.

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To some extent you're right that I am assuming.
He was a sprout with no other jobs leveled up at a low level and when people did bring up WoW in chat he didn't deny it or anything.

I played WoW from Vanilla to Cata and went back and played Classic for a while I am an old WoW player myself.
And I also wasn't the one who brought up WoW, the entire premise of the thread is about it.
The point has never been that WoW is the only game with toxicity issues or that FFXIV doesn't have it, moreso that it's worse in WoW and I do think there's truth to that at least in my experience.

I don't think that WoW is the worst tho I play Mordhau and Mount and Blade too and it's significantly worse.
Even Admins on servers in Mount and Blade are more likely to ban you for reporting people who spam the N-word than ban the people doing it.
Quite recently I reported someone who spammed it and ranted for over two hours about religion and politics and talked about how they were fantasizing about going on a shooting spree while building Swastikas in-game.
And the response of the Admin was to call me too sensitive and refusing to do anything about it, same guy later kept doing the same thing while gloating about not being banned and changed out a word in his name with the N-word instead too.

So yeah....
WoW is like heaven in comparison to some other games, but I still think that it's fair to say that it's worse than FFXIV and that the level of maturity of the players is lower.

Edit: I am not too fond of the whole thing with trying to dismiss it by saying that it's '' just a gaming issue '', to some extent yes it's an issue in gaming as a whole.
However in my experience WoW is on the worse side and I think that dismissing anyone talking about that just gives Blizzard an excuse to not do anything.
Why would Blizzard bother doing anything about it if people are just trying to sugarcoat it all the time?
It basically removes the responsibility of Blizzard to take action against it and just puts it all on the players.

If you want to deal with a problem you first need to acknowledge that it's a problem.

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Originally Posted by Supay

An example, in a dungeon with 2 WoW players, they didn’t have a sprout or flower icon, so they were not new (probably jump potion or rush through MSQ), so normally with standard players the party goes and do the normal pulls, but the tank (WoW player) was absolutely lost, this person began to complain about how fast we were going and not letting him conduct the run, so I said, “well this is how a normal run goes right?” what of course only opened the flood gates for this person to go all-out on how bad FFXIV players are because we only want to run dungeons fast and not respect new players, this person never said he was new, for 10 minutes I had to read how WoW players do dungeons and how FFXIV players suck, so I said: “In FFXIV we let others know if we are new, so they can adjust, you could do that from the beginning instead of complaining and attack us”, after that the other WoW player came in and begin complaining too and also threatening us with harassment reports for not letting them play the game, and he said: “We WoW players are half of this game population now so you must play this like WoW, also, did you know that we can report you for harassment?”, so these WoW players not only think they are a huge part of FFXIV (which is far from reality), they also think we must change our way to play to fit their needs otherwise you will be reported.
Thanks.

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This has to be bait right?
I mean unless you're doing prae or castrum I think ANY tank would get tilted if you ran ahead of them to aggro more mobs, or expecting any tank to wall to wall in this sort of silent agreement just because it is the "normal" patented way to play that we, the community came up with. Not to excuse what they've supposedly said to you, but cmon.

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Originally Posted by Supay

SNIP

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8 years and this is your first and only post.

Nothing suspect about that.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

8 years and this is your first and only post.

Nothing suspect about that.

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FOMO at its finest. gotta get something in before the fad passes...

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Here's the thing though. Not once has someone who's used that jargon not been from WoW. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So it's not really an assumption.

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Nah. We used words like "aggro" in older games, like DAoC. I don't think there was a word for it in UO, although the concept did exist.
What originated in WOW was "transmog" and "mob(ile unit)".
No idea where "toon" comes from -- I don't like the term. My characters are characters, not toons.

My only thought with these types of thread is usually: "Ya'll only play one MMO?". I mostly play FFXIV and GW2 these days but at some point I've played all of em a decent amount, even at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

My only thought with these types of thread is usually: "Ya'll only play one MMO?". I mostly play FFXIV and GW2 these days but at some point I've played all of em a decent amount, even at the same time.

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I'm waiting for Ashes of Creation, will be a great "other game" to play while having fun in XIV. Helps with the burnout, too.

I played WoW since BC right up until shortly before the scandal was revealed and FF14 (inconsistently) since ARR, and I have done end-game content for both, especially in WoW where I got KSM and raided in mythic Castle, and I definitely am not the stereotypical "ex-wow elitist" and i would say few are except perhaps the very newest 14 players who don't yet fully understand the differences between the two games.

Please don't lump all WoW players together and try to remember that WoW has transformed (or rather devolved imo) into a game based purely on competitive combat. Feel pity towards those still stuck in that mindset, not aggression, for they are few and confused.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Edit: I am not too fond of the whole thing with trying to dismiss it by saying that it's '' just a gaming issue '', to some extent yes it's an issue in gaming as a whole.
However in my experience WoW is on the worse side and I think that dismissing anyone talking about that just gives Blizzard an excuse to not do anything.
Why would Blizzard bother doing anything about it if people are just trying to sugarcoat it all the time?
It basically removes the responsibility of Blizzard to take action against it and just puts it all on the players.
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You're correct that Blizzard needs to do something but complaining about it in the FFXIV forums does nothing. Players need to take the discussion to the WoW forums.

They also need to stop automatically assuming any FFXIV player behaving in an obnoxious manner must have come from WoW.

Ok reality check.
These players have always been in ffxiv. It is not just ex wow players, it is any kind of player. Its insulting and quite frankly boring now that people are treating wow players all the same. Stop Gatekeeping.

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Originally Posted by Anya_Synia

Ok reality check.
These players have always been in ffxiv. It is not just ex wow players, it is any kind of player. Its insulting and quite frankly boring now that people are treating wow players all the same. Stop Gatekeeping.

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But that doesn't fit their narrative, therefore it is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're correct that Blizzard needs to do something but complaining about it in the FFXIV forums does nothing. Players need to take the discussion to the WoW forums.

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Pfffft, like Blizzard listens to what people say on their forums. The only time Blizzard listens is when a lot of people unsubscribe

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Originally Posted by juicybug

most of the toxicity revolving around ff and wow, have been from ff players to oncoming wow players. ive only seen a salty wow > ff player maybe once but they werent salty over ff in general just the lack of customizations when it came to character identity and how most players play pale skinned cat girls

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Agree with this

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Originally Posted by Rae88

Pfffft, like Blizzard listens to what people say on their forums. The only time Blizzard listens is when a lot of people unsubscribe

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lots of people have been unsubscribing for years

I dont think they listen to that either....

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

...and "mob(ile unit)

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I came across mob long before WoW, playing on muds and mushes.

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Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan

Nah. We used words like "aggro" in older games, like DAoC. I don't think there was a word for it in UO, although the concept did exist.
What originated in WOW was "transmog" and "mob(ile unit)".
No idea where "toon" comes from -- I don't like the term. My characters are characters, not toons.

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Transmog originated in WoW. Mob most definitely did not. I heard the term used all the time on MUDs and MUSHes in the 1990s, ten years before WoW was even released. I'm not 100% positive, but I believe that "toon" is a reference to the Toon tabletop RPG from 1984: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)
When you created new a character in that game, you were creating a new toon.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

You're correct that Blizzard needs to do something but complaining about it in the FFXIV forums does nothing. Players need to take the discussion to the WoW forums.

They also need to stop automatically assuming any FFXIV player behaving in an obnoxious manner must have come from WoW.

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I am not doing that and this thread is about WoW players in FFXIV.
I was just adressing how people always try and dismiss the notion that some communities might be worse by saying '' it's just a gaming issue ''.
I mean it's not a gaming issue it's just a people and especially internet issue.
Anonymity and all that.

But saying that one is worse than the other doesn't mean that it's exclusively bad with the former.
I have experience with both games and that's what I am going off of others may have other experiences.

It's the same with genres too in my experience historical games, FPS and MOBA's are significantly more toxic and filled with hateful and bigoted players than other genres.
That doesn't mean that I assume that everyone who plays those game is that or that I am saying it's only an issue in those genres.

I always find topics like this interesting since I've been playing WoW since its launch and FFXIV since late ARR and I can count on one hand the amount of negative experiences I've had in FFXIV.

If you're having this many bad experiences with other "WoW players" you might want to do some self reflecting and think of the reason why that might be.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I am not doing that and this thread is about WoW players in FFXIV.
I was just adressing how people always try and dismiss the notion that some communities might be worse by saying '' it's just a gaming issue ''.
I mean it's not a gaming issue it's just a people and especially internet issue.
Anonymity and all that.

But saying that one is worse than the other doesn't mean that it's exclusively bad with the former.
I have experience with both games and that's what I am going off of others may have other experiences.

It's the same with genres too in my experience historical games, FPS and MOBA's are significantly more toxic and filled with hateful and bigoted players than other genres.
That doesn't mean that I assume that everyone who plays those game is that or that I am saying it's only an issue in those genres.

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Unless you have met all wow players and had conversations confirming they are wow players. Then you are generalizing. You cant make sweeping statements saying this group of people are worse than this when you yourself have only met what is a drop in the ocean.

The ones who always post these kinda rants are usually the insufferable players

if you think the people are bad you should see the state of the game

Short post from me.

A while ago in Kugane, I got two fantastic people spamming (and I mean big log) /em spit at me, and mind you.. at the time I didn't know what that even was, as I have never touched WoW in my life, and it wasn't until later that I found out where that came from. In retrospect it was a weird experience, and kinda funny because I sent one of them a DM explaining that I was done with their BS and that if they continued I'd file a report, and they left. Whether they were scared or just decided to move on with their lives, I have no idea. Then again, it was just two people that sure were obviously WoW players, but other than that, I've never really encountered that much toxicity in the game.

Sure, the quality of play in places like LOTA and ST has decreased ever since they made it mandatory for MSQ (we wiped at Allagan Bomb in LOTA not long ago lol) but nobody was really at anyone else's throat, and I think the reduced quality of play is just because more people are being funneled into the duties being that now everyone has to go through them, and not because "The WoW players invaded" or anything like that. I couldn't heal someone at Amon recently because I was silenced, and they got upset at me, though after I said "I was silenced" they didn't kept at it, and I have no idea if that person was a WoW player.

To conclude: I am aware from testimony coming from WoW players themselves that the state of the community there is comparable to what I experienced in League of Legends, which isn't the most pleasant. That said, I really haven't encountered much of that, other than the very specific and isolated case in Kugane. I'm very sorry that you encountered such players in your dungeon, but I believe we shouldn't be putting all recent WoW refugees (if you want to use a descriptor) under an equal banner of toxicity, and I say this as someone who unironically enjoys running Mentor Roulette, so I've had plenty of interesting encounters in that roulette.

After watching Zepla's recent video where she talks about former WoW players having to "reprogram" themselves, so to speak, something clicked in my head. I believe most WoW players actually *want* to play in a non-toxic environment and be non-toxic themselves, but the culture over there has become so pervasively aggressive that they've been conditioned to strike first to preempt receiving aggression from other players. I've never encountered the levels of toxicity as I did on a brand-new server when Classic opened up. Those players were absolutely, no doubt, 100% "WoW refugees", either from the retail version or people who'd been playing on private servers. Having been on RP servers for a decade (the closest thing to the XIV community in that game), having the Classic RP server get flooded with people who would have otherwise played on a Normal or PvP server opened my eyes to just how toxic and aggressive the general WoW community really was at that time. It was a daily, sometimes hourly, kick in the face. While I don't condone aggressive/toxic behavior in any way, shape, or form, the realization that these people need time to let go of old habits and adjust to the new social contracts of the XIV community is going to help me have a little more empathy and patience for people.

I play on the Elemental (JP) DC and interactions are generally very good over there. There's one server that's traditionally been on the more aggressive side as it's got a high percent of non-Japanese players and I've encountered "toxic" behavior from people there in the past, no doubt. Aggressive behavior has absolutely increased with the increase in people leaving WoW, but correlation isn't causality. HOWEVER, and it's important to note, those people are still in the minority of people from that server that I've played with.

There will always be jerks in any game, and each game's community has different levels of interaction that they consider too aggressive or toxic, but I honestly believe the large majority of recent "refugees" to XIV truly want to get away from a toxic community and break their old toxic habits.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

Short post from me.

A while ago in Kugane, I got two fantastic people spamming (and I mean big log) /em spit at me, and mind you.. at the time I didn't know what that even was, as I have never touched WoW in my life, and it wasn't until later that I found out where that came from. In retrospect it was a weird experience, and kinda funny because I sent one of them a DM explaining that I was done with their BS and that if they continued I'd file a report, and they left. Whether they were scared or just decided to move on with their lives, I have no idea. Then again, it was just two people that sure were obviously WoW players, but other than that, I've never really encountered that much toxicity in the game.

Sure, the quality of play in places like LOTA and ST has decreased ever since they made it mandatory for MSQ (we wiped at Allagan Bomb in LOTA not long ago lol) but nobody was really at anyone else's throat, and I think the reduced quality of play is just because more people are being funneled into the duties being that now everyone has to go through them, and not because "The WoW players invaded" or anything like that. I couldn't heal someone at Amon recently because I was silenced, and they got upset at me, though after I said "I was silenced" they didn't kept at it, and I have no idea if that person was a WoW player.

To conclude: I am aware from testimony coming from WoW players themselves that the state of the community there is comparable to what I experienced in League of Legends, which isn't the most pleasant. That said, I really haven't encountered much of that, other than the very specific and isolated case in Kugane. I'm very sorry that you encountered such players in your dungeon, but I believe we shouldn't be putting all recent WoW refugees (if you want to use a descriptor) under an equal banner of toxicity, and I say this as someone who unironically enjoys running Mentor Roulette, so I've had plenty of interesting encounters in that roulette.

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So, you were just walking in Kugane and not one but two random people decided to start spitting on you at the same time for no apparent reason? With no context at all? Press X to doubt.

People really love to hear themselves.

Haven't met any of this. Worse is the silent treatment during dungeons and raids.

At the very least they let Tanks actually Tank unlike certain FF14 players that see the Tank as a doormat.

Man I had a "GOOD" tank last night!

Running on my WHM (60) in The Vault. Just healing, throwing Holy on first pull....and it started!

Sprout....Provoke spam....Shield Oath on and off...constant jumping and moving....not talking...not aoeing AT ALL!

The tank started to pull blind into every pack...used hallowed ground BEFORE in a pack of mobs....

I pulled top hate on EVERY pack due to Holy spam, welp can't do that anymore. Resort to Aero and Stone.

I viewed this as a challenge...so I just kept the tank topped off best I could...but he was made of porcelain. I inspected him and he was wearing level 51 average maybe. His best piece of gear was mapphinas earing...this explains quite a bit.

The NIN had more HP then the tank...he spoke up first. "Hey (tank), the healer is pulling agro from holy, maybe try AOE?"...the tank never responded...but I did start to see total eclipse now...but then shield oath would disappear.... *take off glasses and rub my face*

The NIN started to respond to me...."Dude you're a saint for letting this continue!"

I responded, "He's knew...slack given...but man!"

The BLM in the group finally hit's his stride....all the agro goes straight to him with a double flare, his fate sealed with shield oath off....I prepare benediction. The BLM transposes into manaward and stays in ICE...I can see his tears....10% HP I Benediction the BLM .....mash thin air + Presence of Mind + Regen + Cure II as if I was inputting the Konami code or playing tekken!

The BLM lives....then loud angry BLM screams....the nuke turret can't take it anymore. I could feel the crushing impact of the CAPSLOCK key in the air....

"(tank)....LEAVE SHIELD OATH ON FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! AOE, MITIGATE, STOP MOVING FOR THE DPS, LET THE HEALER CAST HOLY, AND LET'S CONTINUE!" the BLM screamed. I could practically feel the cat girl snarls creep up the back of my spine.

The NIN could only say "Uh oh...now you made the cat girl mad....we screwed!"

Finally....the tank says something...."Something wrong?".

The BLM who was getting deep vein thrombosis, replied "-.-". I felt for them..

The NIN spoke up. "Just out of curiosity. Have you tanked before?"

A solid minute goes by before the tanks response comes into the chat...for a moment I had a vision of my 68 year old father typing a search into google....this is going to take a while...nevertheless...they respond.

"Yeah I played warrior in WoW!"

The puzzle pieces align....I could feel the other party members exchanging with me and each other.

I abated my tension, and just said "Let's continue...Please keep Shield Oath on.", I commanded.

This all happened in the first 3 pulls of the vault. I munched on some nitro glycerin tablets and carried on...i'm 37....

Can someone please make a "How to guide for those joining from WoW"? before I have a stroke....

Threads like these make me miss Titanman

I don’t know if it’s any consolation or reassurance Sqwall, but I’m guessing the majority who (have) come from WoW read their tooltips and look up stuff when unsure. I’ve been called an optimist more often tho :D

Some things are just really different gameplay wise. I remember my first dungeon run where the tank and a dps died and I had no idea you could raise mid combat, because in WoW only resto druids can and it hadn’t clicked in my brain yet that yes, here in FF14, everyone who can raise can do so in combat. The black mage and I heroically managed to kill the boss, and noone gave me a hard time over it. Not long after it suddenly did click and you may imagine the facepalm moment I had lol. I’ve never played a tank in WoW but I can imagine mistakes can be made through (automatic and wrong) assumptions like mine. I don’t dispute it’s nicer when these things happen early on instead of at a point where you’d hope people have come to terms somewhat with the basics.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

Threads like these make me miss Titanman

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I'm sure he's still around lurking in the shadows just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on a divisive topic. For all we know he could be the OP of any number of threads lately. Maybe he finally evolved into something...more.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

So, you were just walking in Kugane and not one but two random people decided to start spitting on you at the same time for no apparent reason? With no context at all? Press X to doubt.

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I didn't say I was "Just walking in Kugane"
I was at the sightseeing lampost log. The one you have to jump to. Maybe they were angry I made the jump? I have no idea. If you chose not to believe me that's entirely up to you, but I think it's sad the first thing that crosses your mind is that I'm making stuff up, which I have no reason to do so. But believe whatever you will. I just wanted to share my experience about the topic. I don't like the idea of labeling recent refugees as "All toxic" because that's unfair and kinda crappy.

14 has always been toxic, you are just noticing it with the increased player count. This really isn't WoW or any other game's fault.

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

I believe most WoW players actually *want* to play in a non-toxic environment and be non-toxic themselves, but the culture over there has become so pervasively aggressive that they've been conditioned to strike first to preempt receiving aggression from other players.

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I agree with your post, but want to isolate this part specifically. There's always been the notion in FF14 that if you say anything negative in /say you can get a strike. We know this isn't true, but we have to acknowledge this is a pervasive belief that kid gloves need to be present at all times.

On the other hand, in WoW, ribbing and banter is the norm. Most people don't even mean anything malicious about emote spamming or jokingly giving someone a hard time, but that doesn't translate to 14 in how sanitized we have made our chat. I remember seeing "I messed up I'll kms" or "You messed up, kys." used liberally for a few years when that was the meme on WoW. Most people didn't mean it, it was just a weird turn of phrase you pick up when the general community is hostile and it is a sort of joke on it.

So we have a bunch of people who are just used to breaking the ice with a joke at someones (self or stranger) expense clashing with a population who seem to believe you'll wake up in the Gaol for saying the f word. I've found it extremely fascinating.

I've never had bad experiences with them, but I have had multiple bad experiences with people who dislike WoW and their players. They don't even try to hide it. If they even suspect someone played WoW for more than a day, they attack like crazed animals. lol

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

14 has always been toxic, you are just noticing it with the increased player count. This really isn't WoW or any other game's fault.

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Interesting point. I must say I encountered more "toxicity" during the days of Heavensward and Stormblood than now. I think the people creating these types of threads are usually to blame. They're always the victim in every scenario.