The Problems With Ninja In Endwalker

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Out of curiosity, has anyone actually played with the raijus yet? After all of the whining in this thread, I wonder how they actually play. (Of course, I don't expect anyone to come back and say that they were wrong, but I'm still curious.)

I'm only 85, but Phantom Kamaitachi feels very awkward to me on the GCD. Maybe it will feel better once I get used to it, but it really feels like it should have been an oGCD in the former Assassinate slot. The ability itself is sweet, but feels like it could have been an oGCD as the clone goes off and does the actual move. That being said, it's still a fun button to press into a group. (It's not Goka Mekkyaku fun, but then again what is?)

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I enjoy the Raiju's but you press that button so much now. Phantom felt awkward at first for me, but with Raiju's it kind of just feels like an ender during my burst since Bunshin 5 ticks go towards 4 Raiju's+Phantom.

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Originally Posted by Shinun

I enjoy the Raiju's but you press that button so much now. Phantom felt awkward at first for me, but with Raiju's it kind of just feels like an ender during my burst since Bunshin 5 ticks go towards 4 Raiju's+Phantom.

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Hmm, that's interesting. I do like ninjutsu + ninjutsu-adjacent things, but I'll have to see how it feels.

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Originally Posted by Shinun

Phantom felt awkward at first for me

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Interestingly, I switched around the keybind for Phantom Kamaitachi, and it feels better to push. I originally bound it to the key that had been for Assassinate, and I think that I subconsciously anticipated Phantom being an oGCD even though I knew that it wasn't.

Moved to a different keybind, and it feels much more reasonable. I'm still a ways from that chidori life, so we'll see.

At this point, it's hard for me to differentiate between something that I don't like and something that's simply new and foreign.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

At this point, it's hard for me to differentiate between something that I don't like and something that's simply new and foreign.

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Thoughtfulness on the DPS forums? Heresy! New is bad!

I got ninja to level 90, and it feels really bad to play tbh. I can live with the huton/ hurajin changes but raiju combo is the biggest problem.

At this point even if they fix it by allowing you to use weapon skills after raiton it still unfun to use. I can't imagine anyone thinking spaming 1 button 4 times as a finisher to 2 raitons is riveting gameplay.

It adds alot of unnecessary bloat to an otherwise very fun rotation. The only way I can see this being fun is allowing you to hold on to the ability and make it 1 gcd instead of 2 and or have it only executable on 3 ration stacks as a big finisher.

I personally find no joy in the ninja currently and am probably gonna move onto another job for EW. It's a shame though I really loved maining ninja though shadowbringers.

I loved Shadowbringers NIN but current I am just rly meh about but I haven't leveled it yet so I dunno.

Ppl kept going on about Assassinate being bad because of the animation lock, I mean I've never had issues with it........
I rly don't get it, people must've held it and used it in the worst possible scenario.
Even if you used it and then the AoE circles appeared after you pressed the button you'd still have enough time to get away I just don't get the complaints about it at all.
And it made Dream Within a Dream less fun imo I liked weaving Assassinate a lot it felt great.

No Shadow Fang either feels meh imo?
And I am not rly fond of spamming the same button repeatedly as with the Raiton combo.
Just hammering one button for three gcds is boring to me ( especially twice in a row + Hyosho Ranryu ).

But I dunno, maybe it's more fun at 90 but my immediate reaction is that it felt more empty at 80 at least.
The Raiton combo looks great but as far as being fun to play I dunno.

Then again you've got a vocal group who wants to erase buttons and turn things into auto-combos...
To me it's not compelling gameplay to press the same button over and over again.

Edit: My mistake, after looking again it's a separate button for the Raiton combo.
But still I do think that it seems boring.

Which is sad because the Trick Attack window before was rly fast paced and fun and very diverse in the abilities you used.

Just got Raiju and have been playing around with it and it really feels weird especially after I realized you can use bunshin stacks towards Raijus , that really through me in a loop. It feels the like pre TA setup will be using basically ninjitsus .. after prepull cast raiton to get 1 stack , TJC to get 2nd stack and enhanced meisei buff but you'll use the ninki for bunshin then cast suiton . Between HR, a 2 raiju combos and PK and alot of weaving there's really not much else you can fit into the TA opener. This is really my initial thoughts . I haven't really found a reason to use any weaponskills in the opener without breaking raiju or using a bunshin stack outside of raijus and pk

After farming some ex I can say that the raijus are boring and annoying.

It is locked to 90 so your 90 rotation is completely different

It is a forced double gap closer. This is worst that it sounds because your can't attack when bound and there is animation lock which removes some of your ability to dodge mech while using it

It forces you to use mudra on bunshin Vs trick since they are not lined up on rotation.

It can be used as a gap closer, but it is very conditional and you want to save it for buff windows anyway.

After unlocking Raiju I actually do like it a lot, I bought the tomestone gear on NIN so I am sorta semi going in on it as a possible new main too ( still want to see what changes they implement to MNK and also possibly NIN too ).

The main problem I have really is that melee skills end Raiju.
It's not a huge problem but I do think it's annoying and especially right after I dinged it did screw with my head a bit.

I'll wait until I see more official openers too but I do feel like the opener feels very crammed.

How likely is it that SE is going to make some big changes to NIN (like replacing/removing Forked Raiju) so it is fun to play again? Do they ever do that or do they just stick to their initial idea? I am asking because I am not sure if I should start leveling a new job or just wait for some patches.

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Originally Posted by xou_

How likely is it that SE is going to make some big changes to NIN (like replacing/removing Forked Raiju) so it is fun to play again? Do they ever do that or do they just stick to their initial idea? I am asking because I am not sure if I should start leveling a new job or just wait for some patches.

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I have a hard time seeing them remove Raiju.
I do think they will make it so you can still use weapon skills and not lose them tho, they've probably gotten a lot of negative feedback about that.

They do pretty big reworks sometimes, some Jobs have gotten some that changed how they played altogether before.
But I wouldn't count on it for NIN.

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Originally Posted by xou_

How likely is it that SE is going to make some big changes to NIN (like replacing/removing Forked Raiju) so it is fun to play again? Do they ever do that or do they just stick to their initial idea? I am asking because I am not sure if I should start leveling a new job or just wait for some patches.

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Pretty close to zero, I would guess.

Also - and I know that this is a foreign concept on the internet - not everyone agrees with you that NIN isn't fun to play now :O

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I have a hard time seeing them remove Raiju.
I do think they will make it so you can still use weapon skills and not lose them tho, they've probably gotten a lot of negative feedback about that.

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Just began leveling ninja after RPR and SMN, saw on the tooltip that only melee weaponskill break Raiju, so could we use Phantom Kamaitachi and Throwing Dagger without losing the stack ? or it's a mistranslation (most people say all weaponskill break the stack) ? can't test right now since i'm only 81.

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Originally Posted by Raidoser

Just began leveling ninja after RPR and SMN, saw on the tooltip that only melee weaponskill break Raiju, so could we use Phantom Kamaitachi and Throwing Dagger without losing the stack ? or it's a mistranslation (most people say all weaponskill break the stack) ? can't test right now since i'm only 81.

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You can use stuff like Bhavacakra ( or however it's spelled ) and Dream Within a Dream too.
Basically for simplicites sake, you can't do your 1 2 3 combo.

Ok, having played a bit with raiju at 90 (including just clearing the first EX in PF), I like raiju a lot more than I did when I first got it. I really think that my initial distaste of it had a lot to do with it being new and very different, all new fights, and some new keybinds given the changes in abilities. Perhaps I'll say more later, but I may be a convert on chido—I mean, raiju.

Now, let's get to the bigger issue with NIN: let me glam a single dagger with the off hand empty!

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Originally Posted by SleepyNeko

It is a forced double gap closer. This is worst that it sounds because your can't attack when bound and there is animation lock which removes some of your ability to dodge mech while using it

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I really think this is a fairly one-sided way of looking at it and more a fault of the player than the skill.
The animation lock is VERY short and if you get hit by something because of it it's because you're being too bold and greedy with your damage.
There is no mechanic in the game that will happen so quickly that you can't react to it because of this animation lock.

The ability re-engage is rly good imo and feels great.
I fail to see why it being a gap closer is a negative NIN is a melee you should be standing in melee to begin with and like I said the lock isn't long enough to be an actual problem.
And at range you're only stronger now because your re-engage deals damage.

Edit: In regards to not being able to use it while bound I dunno if that's true I haven't tried it yet.
But if it's true then I do think that you should be able to so long as you're in range.

I'll give you too that you do need to be more decisive as to when you're disengaging since it's a gap closer so you can't just hit it while running in the other direction but I think the damage combined with re-engage is worth it.
I'd rly hate to lose it tho and I think it'd be too cluttered with extra '' non-gap closer '' versions.
I think it's just a case of needing to adapt and use the tool appropriately.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

You can use stuff like Bhavacakra ( or however it's spelled ) and Dream Within a Dream too.
Basically for simplicites sake, you can't do your 1 2 3 combo.

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Then i don't see why people are complaining about Raiju stacks, if you can't use them because there is a mechanic stopping you going melee it also mean you can't use melee weaponskill so you just use throwing dagger while waiting to use your Raiju stacks.
I mean throwing dagger no longer break combo so we don't lose shukiho passive when using it (combo also last 30 sec now) and the melee/ranged potency of Bunshin is the same (160 potency).
maybe i will think differently when i will have it but for the moment the complaints look a lot like when TCJ was introduced in stormblood.

NIN definitely needs buffs, done a lot of testing and yeah... Damage is low.

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Originally Posted by Raidoser

Then i don't see why people are complaining about Raiju stacks, if you can't use them because there is a mechanic stopping you going melee it also mean you can't use melee weaponskill so you just use throwing dagger while waiting to use your Raiju stacks.
I mean throwing dagger no longer break combo so we don't lose shukiho passive when using it (combo also last 30 sec now) and the melee/ranged potency of Bunshin is the same (160 potency).
maybe i will think differently when i will have it but for the moment the complaints look a lot like when TCJ was introduced in stormblood.

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Your regular weaponskills work as long as you are in within maximum melee range and allow you to move while attacking. So for example if a boss uses a point blank aoe that's about as large as max melee range that would allow a melee player to continue attacking EXCEPT with Raiju. Another example would be a mechanic where your party first needs to stack and then spread, or where you for some other reason need to be able to evade quickly, the animation lock on Raiju can make the difference between dodging or not. Both of these issues are the exact same that dragoons have to deal with when using jumps but there is one last major difference between DRG jumps and Raiju; that Raiju is both on the GCD as a weaponskill and that Raiju is lost if not used immediately. So where you can simply choose to delay your DRG jumps a few seconds (not optimal but also not a giant loss) while continuing your regular rotations, these same situations cause lvl 90 NIN to grind to a complete halt. It's incredibly frustrating to be within max melee range but still have to use throwing daggers because Raiju would move you out of your safe spot and does not tolerate you using any other melee weaponskill until you have burnt through all 6 stacks of Raiju.
And as a small bonus, a certain currently relevant trial fight (both normal and extreme mode) does include quite a few times where your character is temporarily bound. This also prevents you from using Raiju even though you are within melee range, due to it being a gap closer. It's not very fun.

If Raiju was changed to either not drop off when using melee weaponskills or to not be a gap closer (preferably the first option) then that would make a world of difference in how enjoyable NIN is to play.

Seems like a pretty simple fix to be honest. I’m hopeful it’ll happen within the next patch/patches.

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Originally Posted by Daecla

Your regular weaponskills work as long as you are in within maximum melee range and allow you to move while attacking. So for example if a boss uses a point blank aoe that's about as large as max melee range that would allow a melee player to continue attacking EXCEPT with Raiju. Another example would be a mechanic where your party first needs to stack and then spread, or where you for some other reason need to be able to evade quickly, the animation lock on Raiju can make the difference between dodging or not. Both of these issues are the exact same that dragoons have to deal with when using jumps but there is one last major difference between DRG jumps and Raiju; that Raiju is both on the GCD as a weaponskill and that Raiju is lost if not used immediately. So where you can simply choose to delay your DRG jumps a few seconds (not optimal but also not a giant loss) while continuing your regular rotations, these same situations cause lvl 90 NIN to grind to a complete halt. It's incredibly frustrating to be within max melee range but still have to use throwing daggers because Raiju would move you out of your safe spot and does not tolerate you using any other melee weaponskill until you have burnt through all 6 stacks of Raiju.
And as a small bonus, a certain currently relevant trial fight (both normal and extreme mode) does include quite a few times where your character is temporarily bound. This also prevents you from using Raiju even though you are within melee range, due to it being a gap closer. It's not very fun.

If Raiju was changed to either not drop off when using melee weaponskills or to not be a gap closer (preferably the first option) then that would make a world of difference in how enjoyable NIN is to play.

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I'm in the minority then, did a bunch of expert dungeons + the final days trial had no problem to use raiju without wasting stacks, maintain dps uptime and not dying (the animation lock is very short), every time i couldn't use raiju it was because a mechanic was coming and i just had to use throwing dagger or mudra while waiting for the opportunity to go back to melee, the Forked raiju - Fleeting Raiju combo doesn't even break if you use anything except melee weaponskill between them : you can do Forked Raiju - Shukuchi to Dodge - Throwing dagger/Mudra - Fleeting Raiju back to melee.

i have more of a problem with hollow nozuchi animation making sometimes hard to see aoe on the ground on thrash pack in dungeon.

Update: Solutions to Ninja in Endwalker

First of all I want to thank everyone for actively discussing Ninja in this thread and since release there have been a lot of opinions on the changes. Now that me and others have had plenty of time to test Ninja thoroughly, do the math, apply the rotation in real scenarios, etc. I think a lot in our perspectives have changed and I'd like to give an update as to what I like, what I don't like, and possible solutions on how to improve Ninja. A lot of this will mostly show a change of heart since my first post so I would be thankful to hear your responses.
Coming from someone who has only played the 5.1+ iteration of Ninja, I've actually come to appreciate a lot of the updates that have been brought in with Endwalker a lot more, and here is what I've found.

The Rotation
So far in Endwalker the new Ninja rotation has actually been quite engaging. Factors for thus are: Less 123 spam, more ogcds due to increased Ninki gain, and greater range for optimization. With Raiju replacing your basic combo for a good portion of the fight, you are less reliant on positionals and can burst for a much more extended period of time within 20s raid buff and 30s pot windows, which is very satisfying.

Forked Raiju/Fleeting Raiju
While a lot of people seem to take issue with this ability for valid reasons, as do I, there are quite a few positives to this skill in more ways than people might think, so bear with me.

There is some merit to the idea of having slight changes to Raiju, but it is not:
- changing the gapcloser funcionality
- turning it into an ogcd

Raiju replacing the basic combo for 4-6 gcds is not very much but greatly appreciated, as the 5.1+ playstyle for ninja and the repetetive 123 spam was mindnumbing especially at higher levels of play. It now also replaces those weaker gcds that we were previously just stuffing in our trick windows as filler.

As with the idea of an ogcd, many people underestimate the strengths of a gcd gapcloser, and with our current rotation we are already running low on spaces to weave ogcds inside burst windows, adding 6 additional ones into 2min windows, alongside Mug, 4 Bhavacakras, occasionally Bunshin, Dream within a Dream, would be daunting to say the least. And while I understand that people might not enjoy the idea of the Raiju combo being integrated into a single button, calling it "braindead", it seems a common theme in terms of job design, and quite frankly I don't find spamming 123 to be any more engaging, less so in fact.

To highlight the strengths of Raiju currently, you must compare it to other gapclosers in the game and how other melee jobs currently apply them, which led me to this conclusion:
Ogcd gapclosers MUST be weaved in between your gcd meaning that you need to gapclose back towards the boss before your gcd reaches the end of it's roll, raiju completely eliminates this by being the GCD that you use to continue your gcd roll, meaning you can continue your GCD at any distance from the boss, a great advantage to the gapclosers other melees have as well as leaving an incredible amount of freedom of movement in a lot of cases that I previously thought would be limited by this skill.

After having done both Endwalker Extreme Trials multiple times and applying a highly optimized rotation across all mechanics, I found that with proper planning and skill, the quite short animation lock and forced dash on Raiju still left an incredible range of movement (also thanks to the QoL buff to shukuchi) and were hardly as much of a detrimental factor as I thought it to be. You can dodge around a lot of the mechanics so far no problem with some thinking ahead. While it is true that the gapcloser as of right now cannot be shifted, keeping the gapcloser functionality of both Forked Raiju and Fleeting Raiju would be an incredible tool if they were to not break upon using other melee weaponskills, and would easily make it the best gapcloser in the entire game.

Solutions
The changes Ninja requires are very simple and I would be grateful to the developers should they implement these:

1. Change the "Forked Raiju Ready" and "Fleeting Raiju Ready" buffs to no longer disappear upon using other melee weaponskills, and extend the timer to at least 20s or more to help with this

2. Increase the strength of "Phantom Kamaitachi" to help it gain priority within raid buffs

3. Adjust potencies across various skills to be in line with other melee jobs (And, though unlikely, return to us our damage in 2-target-scenarios, it is very sad to see them now compared to what they used to be)

Final Thoughts
Fortunately Ninja still remains fun and challenging, as well as satisfying to use, and I am glad for the addition of Raiju stacks after the media tour. It was a change in the right direction and I am confident that the developers have found a good spot for ninja and while not everyone can be satisfied, I hope my post was able to bring a different perspective into this thread, and thank you very much for taking your time to read it if you did.

Also, please increase the volume on the Raiju sound effects, they are cool but far too quiet for skills of such strength, thank you!

Totally agree with Elena, what NIN needs rly is just for Raiju to not break on weaponskills and potency changes.

I am actually really hype about NIN in Endwalker, I've leveled it every time since ARR but not played it so actively.
But I am VERY strongly considering it as a main in Endwalker.

Well said. I agree with everything 100%.

I fully agree with Elena's post, and hope to see these type of changes in 6.05

Elena said everything that i was frustrated about,currently i kinda dread to press raijus and these changes will make the job a lot more smoother.i really really reaaaally hope these changes will be implemented

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Originally Posted by AlnoAshen

i kinda dread to press raijus

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Just press it, man - it's so good. When you've got Bunshin going and you're dropping fat Raijus - that's living, my friend.

I can't speak to whatever savage will be, but there's currently nothing that should cause you to "dread" pressing raiju. I guess that you could accidently miss LOSing in EX2, but that extremely niche and you can survive throwing knives for a GCD or two. In EX2 add phase, the dashes on Raiju can have you zooming around the map like Sonic with Chidori.

I have converted to the Church of Raiju. Join us.

Yes,there is.is the accessory trial,ur trick comes up right after the stars,and there u have to press raijus at the same time struggling with animation lock of raijus.
I just cant believe how bad this skill is,not only is it an animation lock,not only is it a gap closer,u also HAVE to press it right away.This makes assassinate looks god like cuz at least u could move assassinate in ur trick window in a part where u didnt have to move!

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Originally Posted by AlnoAshen

Yes,there is.is the accessory trial,ur trick comes up right after the stars,and there u have to press raijus at the same time struggling with animation lock of raijus.
I just cant believe how bad this skill is

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This seems like a wild overreaction for a few GCDs in one fight when using Raiju isn't optimal depending on star placement. Maybe important for your parse party but irrelevant for the clear.

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Originally Posted by AlnoAshen

u also HAVE to press it right away.

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You literally don't HAVE to press it right away, in the sense that you have the option to press other buttons (Throwing Dagger, Ninjustu, Phantom Kamaitachi, etc.) without losing Forked Raiju Ready, that you have the option to press other buttons and lose Forked Raiju ready, and that the buff lasts 15 seconds.

Look, I get it - Raiju is new and scary. When I first got it, I hated it precisely because it works differently that 80 ShB NIN worked, but that was because I was trying to use it like 80 ShB NIN. Once I let go of 80 ShB NIN and started playing 90 EW NIN, it felt much better.

I have been converted, my friends. I have seen the light(ning).

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Look, I get it - Raiju is new and scary. When I first got it, I hated it precisely because it works differently that 80 ShB NIN worked, but that was because I was trying to use it like 80 ShB NIN. Once I let go of 80 ShB NIN and started playing 90 EW NIN, it felt much better.

I have been converted, my friends. I have seen the light(ning).

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I've been a NIN main since their release in 2.4, I've seen us change throughout the expansions and the rework in shadowbringers. I've seen us lose mutilate and dancing edge. Getting a not-leylines with TCJ and seeing our mudras get put on the GCD. It's not about chidori being new and scary. It's about chidori feeling jank to use. I'm sure there's plenty of people out there who have played NIN since 2.4 and love the chidori, but hand waving it wont solve everyone's issues.

I personally do not like the changes to ninja. I picked it up during the shb rework and it quickly became my favorite job. I just don't think raijus are fun and that they make your trick windows feel insignificant. They're also very clunky and restrictive. If I wanted to spam fell cleave I'd play war lol.

Some of the more recent comments have been encouraging enough to put me back on track to trying NIN in Endwalker after originally planning to shelf it, but there's still a few things that I just don't get. I've just started levelling it, but some things already stick out.

Mainly, Phantom Kamaitachi just feels like a complete waste of a skill. At least with the Raiju's it looks like Square was trying for something. Kamaitachi looks like a completely negligible gain. Some quick math looks like you'd end up with you possibly gaining around 130 potency over 90 seconds (although potentially losing 5 ninki to do so). That just seems so worthless, and a waste of a skill slot. Am I missing something here?

Just hit lvl90 aaaand... I like and dislike Raiju, my only BIG issue with it is clearly the impossibility to use any weaponskill !!
Also DEV TEAM pleaaaaase enhance the damn SOUND EFFECT ! Raiju doesn't sound impactful at all... Nor Bavakhacra, i never said anything about Bava when first introduce but man some job sound effect are really bad.

Dev team please = Bava + Raiju => enhance sound effect, Raiju => possibility to use any weaponskill ;

Thanks you by advance, hoping you do so !!

Yes Kamaitachi feel pretty clunky to use.

500% agree with your first posts and the last about the potencies and the buff about raiju. I love ninja but without buff...i will change my main i think

This is ridiculous.
Throwing daggers during a burst window to bypass clunky gameplay?
Or alternatively, using PK which align with burst window every 3 minutes?
While every raid buffs are now aligned to 60/120 secs? While everyone else can go ham on boss simply because... they can stay at max melee range and aren't animation locked?

And I'm not talking about current Ex trials, there are much more fight with tighter DPS checks and movement requirement out there, and there will be more.
Having Raiju not breaking on melee weapon skills would fix a bunch of the issues NIN currently have, but I'm not sure if the devs will do it soon enough given they're current preoccupation is to fix HN not counting as a melee weaponskill.

I've seen all changes done to my main since 2.4, some I loathed and some I greatly enjoyed. But yeah, I'm probably unreasonnably scared because it's new.


NIN: What's my purpose?
Group: You use Trick Attack.
NIN: OMG...

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Originally Posted by Shut

This is ridiculous.
Throwing daggers during a burst window to bypass clunky gameplay?
Or alternatively, using PK which align with burst window every 3 minutes?
While every raid buffs are now aligned to 60/120 secs? While everyone else can go ham on boss simply because... they can stay at max melee range and aren't animation locked?

And I'm not talking about current Ex trials, there are much more fight with tighter DPS checks and movement requirement out there, and there will be more.
Having Raiju not breaking on melee weapon skills would fix a bunch of the issues NIN currently have, but I'm not sure if the devs will do it soon enough given they're current preoccupation is to fix HN not counting as a melee weaponskill.

I've seen all changes done to my main since 2.4, some I loathed and some I greatly enjoyed. But yeah, I'm probably unreasonnably scared because it's new.


NIN: What's my purpose?
Group: You use Trick Attack.
NIN: OMG...

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There is a Pov of a NIN doing Hydaelyn Ex, he didn't die, delay his burst or needed to use throwing dagger, so if someone can do it others can too.
For Zodiark yes it is annoying with the 8 sec bind who come regulary.

You don't like Raijin you can, everyone can have his opinion but don't use bad arguments like :

- Can't delay raiju or i lose the stack : that's false you can use Phantom kaimaichi or throwing dagger, the better you get with your position the less you will need to do that (depend of the tank also).
- Super hard animation lock : that's false.

Nin was the third i leveled because of all those lies, because yes if you truly couldn't use any skill while holding raiju and the animation lock was long i would also scream about it because that would be the opposite of what a NIN is and why i play Nin.

My actual opinion of raiju is that it being a gcd or breaking 1-2-3 is actually perfectly fine, but that it should not take you out of max melee, it should stay a gap closer, but it shouldn't make you jump inside the asshole of the bosses, especially since like promise every single mechanics has been *stand at max melee to not eat shit*.

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Originally Posted by Raidoser

There is a Pov of a NIN doing Hydaelyn Ex, he didn't die, delay his burst or needed to use throwing dagger, so if someone can do it others can too.
For Zodiark yes it is annoying with the 8 sec bind who come regulary.

You don't like Raijin you can, everyone can have his opinion but don't use bad arguments like :

- Can't delay raiju or i lose the stack : that's false you can use Phantom kaimaichi or throwing dagger, the better you get with your position the less you will need to do that (depend of the tank also).
- Super hard animation lock : that's false.

Nin was the third i leveled because of all those lies, because yes if you truly couldn't use any skill while holding raiju and the animation lock was long i would also scream about it because that would be the opposite of what a NIN is and why i play Nin.

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I'm not sure what you've actually read through my post.

I'm not saying "options" don't exist. But the fact that those "options" are pathetic and that they are here to make up for something that shouldn't be an issue in the first place (dealing damage at melee range) is what I pointed out.
There are here to fix a problem created by that new gameplay, not here to optimize your rotation around a specific mechanic during a fight, and the best of them can only make it for 1 GCD. I'm not sure where's the lie.

Concerning the "super hard animation lock", having 2+ short animation locks back to back is no better, and we have yet to see a fight with stricter movements and positioning. Mechanics forcing to play at max melee range have been seen countless times in raids and ultimate before (90% of them being perfectly timed during burst window), the only mechanic remotely close in current EX trials being EX 2's chakrams. Wait until we have another light rampant, shiva/titan junction, Final word, weight of the land, annihilation, and pray the god of ping.
I'll add that having to backtrack 3 yalms + animation lock is crap for disengagement, and only ninja have to deal with that as long as the "options" are terrible damage-wise.

i just have to say one thing that ive noticed in this thread.Most of the players that are not concerned about changes to ninja,and that are making excuses for raiju havent actually been through the extremes or any previous savage tier(as seen on fflogs).While the players that are concerned actually know the job and have been through few tiers and ultmates and know,how hard raijus,in their current state will make our lifes.