Hamlet defense feedback from a top 20 provisioner: Critical problems and solutions

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

Great, so the gear is more or less dependent on being in the Top 20. Thanks Duuuude

---

I really hope that wasn't intended. It is already becoming a huge deterrent from participation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

I really hope that wasn't intended. It is already becoming a huge deterrent from participation.

---

I think it was indeed intended to create competition amongst suppliers and thus a driving force for increasing phase level. On the other hand there are probably other items, if not the same, that can drop from the chests albeit with a much lower drop rate. This encourages the former players to supply during the non combat phase ad infinum.

What might not be working properly is the chest reward system, in which case i would assume that an increase in points and an increase in phase would correlate to an increase drop rate. Unfortuneately this does not yet seem to be the case.

Let's be honest though, these militia items are of incredible value and are unparalleled in the game. They should be kept rare.

If it were purely meant for top 20 then they are encouraging the top 20 strangers to team up with each other? Because if linkshell members know the chest will not yield a reward, they will not be sticking around for long, no matter how popular the "provisioner" may be.

Your assessment seems to treat hamlet defense like it would be a huge waste of content, for the time they took to implement it.

Ask yourself:
If top 20 averages 1 drop every 3-4 wins...

If everyone else averages zero drops after 40-50 wins...

and you are part of the latter group...

...How likely are you to spend a full day of playing, running hamlets?

Hello,

This has me worried, and sad. As a Botanist/Carpenter I had my little heart pinned on doing this so much. But after reading all this, now I'm hesitant to even try. This is why:

If you have to be in the top 20 contributors to get any reward, there are going to be following limitations:
1 - Only people who are willing to invest items worth millions of gil will be be in the top 20.
2 - If you invest 10Million gil, there is nothing to stop 20 other people investing 10.1 million gil at the last moment (thus rendering your 10 million gil investment worthless)
3 - You HAVE to then contribute to the physical defense. If for some reason you can not (sick, can't make it, can't convince LS friends to come help you fight 10+ times for no reward on their part) you loose out on your total investment. Not to mention you also have to win (which means you can't pick up 7 random people who are willing to go once, and have faith you will even win).

If the premise is true, the only real hope is:
1 - A lot of people loose interest in it, so that only 20 people in the world actually want to partake.
2 - You are part of a tightly organized LS with the people and the resources who can all work to pull this off (and invest a huge gigantic portion of gil).

If #1 does not come true (which would be sad, as then I am hoping the content is so unpopular I would like to do it.. but popular enough I can convince 7 friends to go with me), then the only recourse is #2 (which leaves this event only to really-dedicated-long-term-rich-well-formed LSs... which is rather exclusive ...)

Right now, DL gear is looking easier to me ^.^;;


I really really hope the premise is wrong, or some adjustements can be made so that it can be fun for all on a regular basis.


Maybe too pre-mature but some super easy adjustments:
1 - You donate, you get points. For every 'x' points you get a chance of an item.
2 - If you are in top 20 you get an EXTRA chance of an item.
3 - If you are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd you get an EXTRA chance of an item.

You do not need to contribute to battle to have a chance at item.

If you contribute in battle and win, you get a chance at an item (based on your score). You do not need to supply items ahead of time to have a chance at item.


If it was something like this then I can see this being happy and fun for many ^.^b


Thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Asiaine

Maybe too pre-mature but some super easy adjustments:
1 - You donate, you get points. For every 'x' points you get a chance of an item.
2 - If you are in top 20 you get an EXTRA chance of an item.
3 - If you are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd you get an EXTRA chance of an item.

You do not need to contribute to battle to have a chance at item.

If you contribute in battle and win, you get a chance at an item (based on your score). You do not need to supply items ahead of time to have a chance at item.

---

I think if you're in the top 20 you should get seals, but only get the weapons and stuff if you win them from battle. It doesn't make much sense to give those types of items to DoL/H jobs. Otherwise I agree with this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

If it were purely meant for top 20 then they are encouraging the top 20 strangers to team up with each other? Because if linkshell members know the chest will not yield a reward, they will not be sticking around for long, no matter how popular the "provisioner" may be.

Your assessment seems to treat hamlet defense like it would be a huge waste of content, for the time they took to implement it.

Ask yourself:
If top 20 averages 1 drop every 3-4 wins...

If everyone else averages zero drops after 40-50 wins...

and you are part of the latter group...

...How likely are you to spend a full day of playing, running hamlets?

---

Just about as likely as I am to spend a full day doing AV speed runs... which is to say, never.

Although, I have done a good deal of AV speed runs, I never once got a Darklight Drop. I saw a couple pieces drop, but they did not go to me. In any case I still plan on doing AV/CC speed runs occasionally. In the same sense I will attempt Hamlet.

That being said, I would be a fool to attempt hamlet not having prepared myself. I have lvl 50 mining and botany, so I don't mind spending a few hours a day for a couple of weeks just hording an obscene amount of supplies if it will ensure my place in the Top 20 and thus increase my chances at obtaining militia items.

I understand how this might seem to exclude battle classes, but up until now you could say that DoH/DoL classes have been excluded from content such as primals. But for now we really don't know what the drop rates are like beyond phase 1 and 2, or if there might be some hidden factor to increase the likelyhood of items dropping (other than top 20)...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

What i foresee happening is groups will gather up tens of millions of points in turnins so that they can guarentee the hamlet will be at the level they want it at without any outside help

and when they do, they wil;l all be top 20 and itl be the week they get everything they want when they do it...

---

are the turn ins always the same. If i was gonna do it i would harvest for a few weeks and then turn in, like you said to try and lock a spot. Also ill wait till the new hamlets are in so i don't have to turn in as much(hope theres still enough to hit lvl 2 though).

everyone loves uldah, i have a feeling the hamlet there will be the only one people do after its ready.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

are the turn ins always the same. If i was gonna do it i would harvest for a few weeks and then turn in, like you said to try and lock a spot. Also ill wait till the new hamlets are in so i don't have to turn in as much(hope theres still enough to hit lvl 2 though).

everyone loves uldah, i have a feeling the hamlet there will be the only one people do after its ready.

---

Yes the items to turn in are all the same. And your strategy is indeed what I and others have conceded to bein the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

are the turn ins always the same. If i was gonna do it i would harvest for a few weeks and then turn in, like you said to try and lock a spot. Also ill wait till the new hamlets are in so i don't have to turn in as much(hope theres still enough to hit lvl 2 though).

everyone loves uldah, i have a feeling the hamlet there will be the only one people do after its ready.

---

yep always same so you can save up

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

Yes the items to turn in are all the same. And your strategy is indeed what I and others have conceded to bein the best.

---

with everyone doing it itll be like ebay where everyone waits till the last second to turn in,lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

with everyone doing it itll be like ebay where everyone waits till the last second to turn in,lol.

---

Damn price snipers...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

Damn price snipers...

---

its not too too bad, this time 4 of us did it last minute, i showed up 30 minutes before myself

its a good way to judge how bad itl be to get into the top 20

if you show up, 4-5 people are there, you know you really only need to make top 15 or so to guarentee it, and if that range is too much for you, then you can choose to pass that cycle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

its not too too bad, this time 4 of us did it last minute, i showed up 30 minutes before myself

its a good way to judge how bad itl be to get into the top 20

if you show up, 4-5 people are there, you know you really only need to make top 15 or so to guarentee it, and if that range is too much for you, then you can choose to pass that cycle

---

sounds legit, I'll do that eventually. Thanks vedis!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

sounds legit, I'll do that eventually. Thanks vedis!

---

yeah, doing it like that isnt as much sniping as it is being strategic about it

if i saw 20 people show up to do it, id personaly just walk away, let them deal with the competition lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah, doing it like that isnt as much sniping as it is being strategic about it

if i saw 20 people show up to do it, id personaly just walk away, let them deal with the competition lol

---

lol i was referring to ebay snipers >..> ppl would always snipe the cheap MTG cards back in the day

i mainly want double down odds+10 and hq discovery +10, they both seem to be trade-able according to ffpro

http://www.ffxivpro.com/search/item?q=militia

i wonder if id be better off selling the materials and buying them(if i can) then trying my luck who knows how many times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i mainly want double down odds+10 and hq discovery +10, they both seem to be trade-able according to ffpro

http://www.ffxivpro.com/search/item?q=militia

i wonder if id be better off selling the materials and buying them(if i can) then trying my luck who knows how many times.

---

the items are all tradable

as for selling the items...may not work out well, they are barely selling at all at the moment it looks like(least on our server)

and the only item weve seen of the ones you want for sale, someones asking 30mil for

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i mainly want double down odds+10 and hq discovery +10, they both seem to be trade-able according to ffpro

http://www.ffxivpro.com/search/item?q=militia

i wonder if id be better off selling the materials and buying them(if i can) then trying my luck who knows how many times.

---

I just want the DoL items, especially +10 HQ. I ddin't even think of buying it off wards and selling HQ ore to come up with the gil. How lucrative... Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

the items are all tradable

as for selling the items...may not work out well, they are barely selling at all at the moment it looks like(least on our server)

and the only item weve seen of the ones you want for sale, someones asking 30mil for

---

yea but ill prob come up with 30 mil faster then ill get the drop buy selling the mats

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by syntaxlies

yea but ill prob come up with 30 mil faster then ill get the drop buy selling the mats

---

good luck finding one for sale, i got a feeling people aint gonna want to part with them that easily lol, im amazed there is even 1 for sale on balmung

Once I get my Grade 5 Thanlan achievement for mining I'm done with this. Will be back for anima tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

Once I get my Grade 5 Thanlan achievement for mining I'm done with this. Will be back for anima tho.

---

you and me both

then again i wont lie...ill be doing grade 5 nine ivesevery morning for spruce instead after alol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

If it were purely meant for top 20 then they are encouraging the top 20 strangers to team up with each other? Because if linkshell members know the chest will not yield a reward, they will not be sticking around for long, no matter how popular the "provisioner" may be.

Your assessment seems to treat hamlet defense like it would be a huge waste of content, for the time they took to implement it.

Ask yourself:

If top 20 averages 1 drop every 3-4 wins...

If everyone else averages zero drops after 40-50 wins...

and you are part of the latter group...

...How likely are you to spend a full day of playing, running hamlets?

---

Hi Duuude,

Well said.

I love gathering (Botanist was one of my favorite early classes when XIV first launched), but if the drops are *realistically* only limited to the Top 20 Contributors on the list, then you'll have... 20 players on the *entire server* who have any hope of getting a drop, and basically no one else on the server has a chance.

That's not really balanced, nor fair.

The other part is, even if one wants to argue that it's a rare reward just for the Top 20 only... the actual Militia Defense is for Full Parties of 8. So even if you bust your butt to get to the Top 20, if pretty much everyone else has given up hope and never want to participate in Hamlet Defense again, what does that gain you?

Nothing. You can't even cash in on the result of your effort (unless you had a dedicated LS willing to help you out).

Even for Primals or Dungeons, ALL players can participate, and they don't have to be the "Top 20 Fastest Clear Times of the Week" to get a chance at Darklight Gear or Primal Weapon Drops.

Word of the bad drop rate has already gotten out and many people no longer want to go to Hamlet Defense even after just the 1st weekend.

Yoshida-san and SE need to improve on this system.

Side note: The actual Hamlet Defense is quite fun! :) Interesting, and they get Crafters, Gatherers and Disciples of War & Magic to participate together in some way (very nice idea).

But after trying it a few times, the only reason to go back right now is for Anima replenishment for many people.

That's a problem that should be addressed soon.

I agree with many posts, the battles with every disciplines participating is a good concept, but everything else could be improved.

Are you guys still seeing drops from the captain even when the hamlet is at a level 1 attack?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jamison

Are you guys still seeing drops from the captain even when the hamlet is at a level 1 attack?

---

yes we are

Anyone seen the BTN headpiece yet?

Been seeing people wondering if you have to be in the Top 20 to even get gear. From what I've heard, you don't. Being in the top 20 just gives you an additional chance at getting a piece of gear separate from the party. I'm under the impression that the normal chest available to everyone can drop gear, it's just rare.

I kind of hope the amount needed to drive the supply rating higher will be lowered when the other Hamlets are put in. I mean on Balmung we're not even getting close to Supply Rating 2 and that's with just one. If they're going to go all the way up to level 5, they definitely need to lower those costs.

Currently for sale on Sargatanas:

Militia Mortar:
2mil
2.5mil

Militia Culinary Knife:
2.5mil
5mil

Militia Sledgehammer:
20mil

Is there any correlation between the drop rate and the point totals?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Is there any correlation between the drop rate and the point totals?

---

I was thinking the same thing... o.o

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Is there any correlation between the drop rate and the point totals?

---

I've heard a theory (I believe it was Thevedis'):

<10k = 1 drop
10k-?? = 2 drops

Dunno about after that. I can confirm these numbers though as within those ranges I've seen exactly that amount of Dark Matter drop every time. I'm thinking it's like Primals, either Dark Matter or Gear.

Edit: As for the actual % chance drop rate itself, I have no idea.

People regularly broke 40,000 points and got less than those at 10,000 points. This is central to the issue, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcell

I've heard a theory (I believe it was Thevedis'):

<10k = 1 drop
10k-?? = 2 drops

Dunno about after that. I can confirm these numbers though as within those ranges I've seen exactly that amount of Dark Matter drop every time. I'm thinking it's like Primals, either Dark Matter or Gear.

---

100% true, but the problem is, the drop rate is so low, most have yet to see or even confirm a drop from the chest

ive now gone 30 runs with no drops from the chest at all, almost all at 10k+ points

Drop rate of something other than trash from captain: ~ 25% [top 20 exclusive]
Drop rate of something other than trash from chest: ~ 0%

again, this is the problem we are referring to, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Matsume

I was thinking the same thing... o.o

---

I think there may be some correlation. I was wondering if you have a top 20 contributor (3000 points), plus you beat the level 2 boss (3000 points), plus your frontline was unbreached (1500 points), and maybe a few more high point value occurrences, if the rest of the party would have better chances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

I think there may be some correlation. I was wondering if you have a top 20 contributor (3000 points), plus you beat the level 2 boss (3000 points), plus your frontline was unbreached (1500 points), and maybe a few more high point value occurrences, if the rest of the party would have better chances.

---

Those factors get you over 30k. With some added effort in speed and other stuff, our ls was frequenting 40k scores. Zero items to date from the chest, regardless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

Those factors get you over 30k. With some added effort in speed and other stuff, our ls was frequenting 40k scores. Zero items to date from the chest, regardless.

---

ouch! not cool SE. The first one may have been my last hamlet defense until this is fixed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

ouch! not cool SE. The first one may have been my last hamlet defense until this is fixed.

---

im not having my team go back in unles we have multiple top 20s

that way we can share the drops we get and get them much more often


luckily, we are a LS group who is willing to do that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheVedis

im not having my team go back in unles we have multiple top 20s

that way we can share the drops we get and get them much more often


luckily, we are a LS group who is willing to do that

---

I won't risk the loss of gil, personally. Maybe after the other two open up, so there is a better chance to make it into the top 20, but not before then.

Also, multiple top 20s, as far as I can see from the data I have, don't count for more points than a single top 20 in your group would.