1.22 - 1.22a - 1.22b changes

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I like riot blade for if someone pulls hate you can use it real fast and get hate back(mob turns and faces his back to you). I think that was the concept for it since they made it ranged. having that much tp in an emergency situation can be a problem though.

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Agreed, specially when Wardrum and Shield Bash can milk your TP over time.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Also Ace, I wanted to pull this up for you after following the instructions I left for you above. From:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...perience/page3




I have a fan. I must know how to play paladin after all!

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Lol...you do realize that post goes against your entire argument right? The irony is killing me. Youre trying to say PLDs are subpar tanks yet link a post where a healer says otherwise. I honestly think you forgot what you were originally arguing about. You proved ace's point just now lol.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Lol...you do realize that post goes against your entire argument right? The irony is killing me. Youre trying to say PLDs are subpar tanks yet link a post where a healer says otherwise. I honestly think you forgot what you were originally arguing about. You proved ace's point just now lol.

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My point is to ace, I do have a decent grasp of what I'm talking about here. Now for you, read the post closer, you'll see the healer said I tanked 'as good as a war'... It doesn't say paladins are on par, if 95% of warriors can do the job well, and only 10% of the paladins, it underscores the problem.

Not every paladin has +1 rings, melded +1 gear, and some double melded gear. For the most part warriors can do just as well as I do, and I will admit, many times better than I can do at tanking wearing NQ items And AF armor.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

I like riot blade for if someone pulls hate you can use it real fast and get hate back(mob turns and faces his back to you). I think that was the concept for it since they made it ranged. having that much tp in an emergency situation can be a problem though.

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I know many WS have undergone extreme change, but Riot Blade was always a ranged WS. It's wonderful, but I don't believe the range was put in for that very purpose.

As for the TP requirement, for that particular situation, sure it can be a bit much. But considering the power of the WS (Riot Blade has never been weak when wielded properly) and the Defense Down effect, it's a fairly potent WS and I think 2000 is about right for TP cost.

Realistically, in a perfect world, you wouldn't be losing hate to have to use it in such a manner. In a realistic world, it has it's uses for hate loss, but I still think it's a better augmenting skill to your current tanking means.

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Originally Posted by waldo

My point is to ace, I do have a decent grasp of what I'm talking about here. Now for you, read the post closer, you'll see the healer said I tanked 'as good as a war'... It doesn't say paladins are on par, if 95% of warriors can do the job well, and only 10% of the paladins, it underscores the problem.

Not every paladin has +1 rings, melded +1 gear, and some double melded gear. For the most part warriors can do just as well as I do, and I will admit, many times better than I can do at tanking wearing NQ items And AF armor.

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If you tanked as good as a war you tanked on par with a war. And according to the healer, the tank in question was not wearing anything "that would be out of the question for the avg paladin to obtain". Course if you disagree thats another thing, but if you can do the job well without crazy out-of-your-mind gear than its obvious that "PLD" is not the problem. The fact that only 10% of Paladins do well is more of a function of the playerbase..not the class. Some jobs are harder to play properly than others, it doesn't mean that job is inferior to another one. All it means is that you actually have to have a brain to play it successfully. Difficult to play well =/= subpar in any universe.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Some jobs are harder to play properly than others, it doesn't mean that job is inferior to another one. All it means is that you actually have to have a brain to play it successfully. Difficult to play well =/= subpar in any universe.

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Occam's Razor: The path requiring the least explanation is probably correct. Having tanked as both WAR and PLD, I can say that PLD requires more micromanagement, where as WAR requires collusion and facerolling cooldowns, which leads me to another point.

If difficulty of use yields similar results to something of less difficulty, then that is a problem. If PLD is harder to use, there should be a greater payout to match that level of difficulty. That is not the current status quo between the two jobs.

A "really good paladin" is equal to a "just ok" warrior, and that is a problem. If I have to try 3 times harder, than I should get 3 times the payout in terms of survivability, enmity generation, party assistance, or all categories. If there is no greater payout, then that means PLD is inferior to WAR.

Edit: breaking wall of text.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

And according to the healer, the tank in question was not wearing anything "that would be out of the question for the avg paladin to obtain".

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+1 winglet with double enmity, +1 double meld cobalt celta, +1 rings, sent gloves & boots with 60HP meld, +1 belt. These things aren't exactly dark light gear, (out of the question) but there not exactly AF either. If you know the correct way to play and have better gear, you should do a little better than 'as good as a warrior' correct? Especially being the primary tanking class as deemed by yoshi himself.

Thank god this will all be irrelevant soon. 1.22b /joy

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Originally Posted by waldo

Thank God this will all be irrelevant soon. 1.22b /joy

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I wouldn't jump the gun just yet saying that it will Fix PLD. From the way things are looking, Yoshi is just going to do little upgrades and tweak as necessary, which means it might be a few more updates before PLD is relevant enough to compete with WAR as a tank.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

I wouldn't jump the gun just yet saying that it will Fix PLD. From the way things are looking, Yoshi is just going to do little upgrades and tweak as necessary, which means it might be a few more updates before PLD is relevant enough to compete with WAR as a tank.

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Tweeks coupled with the warrior nerf, if that puts us even I'm happy with it. I don't want paladin to be overpowered, and I don't want warrior to be worthless. Hopefully there will be a really good balance between the two.

Take away collusion and give a sizable nerf to steel cyclone and PLD is pretty close to WAR. Add in the HP buff to PLD and I'm going to be happy with the balance of the 2 jobs.

Right now block is just under-appreciated and the avg player probably still thinks its broken. The amount of dmg mitigation it provides is very substantial.

Now I just want to see real shield block testing to find the dlvl affect on block rate and the dmg reduction provided by block.

Well I played around on PLD on Ifrit the other night whos a Lv58 mob. It was nice taking his 600DMG attacks down to 300. I havent really experimented higher than that, but once you get around 70 the Dlv damage values vary alot so it can be difficult to properly discern due to this.