Rokien's new thread on Open World.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I have and it's a joke that I have to /shout for a party now for something I should just be able go in and sign up.

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oh you mean you want dungeon finder for it? Which would effectively give you what you want. I know how much you hate dungeon finder but its true. Make more friends and less enemies and it wouldn't be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

oh you mean you want dungeon finder for it? Which would effectively give you what you want. I know how much you hate dungeon finder but its true. Make more friends and less enemies and it wouldn't be an issue.

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no, I wanna walk in and just do it, whether it's with people or without people, this isn't something that you should HAVE to have a group with.

I should get points based off of MY performance, and able to spend those points on gear.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

no, I wanna walk in and just do it, whether it's with people or without people, this isn't something that you should HAVE to have a group with.

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So you want the choice of soloing an MMO?

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

So you want the choice of soloing an MMO?

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.... omg I swear you people.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

no, I wanna walk in and just do it, whether it's with people or without people, this isn't something that you should HAVE to have a group with.

I should get points based off of MY performance, and able to spend those points on gear.

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so you want it to be a massive no thought no strategy zerg that you can leach off of?

I think he wants the option to go in solo if he so chooses.
If group content is designed in a manner that allows for it to be solo'd i'd be very disappointed though.

did any of you played campaign?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

did any of you played campaign?

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no didn't quite care for FFXI much to play it more than 6 months forced group leveling really turned me away from it

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Originally Posted by Krausus

no didn't quite care for FFXI much to play it more than 6 months forced group leveling really turned me away from it

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Oh, why you playing this game then....... -.-

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Originally Posted by Skies

Uhn... Just to be sure-
Are you against quest chaining by itself, or are you against quest-based progression?

I will be sincere, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would be against pure quest chaining, hell I did that with the current XIV sidequests.

I can, however, understand (and heavily disagree until the end of my life) people disliking quest-based progression. Sure, that is my favorite type of progression but I can accept that some people might not like it.

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The problem most people seem to have with Quest Chaining is three-fold. While nice in concept, the quests tend to be extremely dull and uninteresting (not entirely the developers' fault, it's pretty hard to make literally hundreds of quests all interesting without a lot of repeats).

The second reason is that it tends to be solitary in nature. While it could be designed otherwise, to my knowledge, every game that uses quest chaining has made the quests soloable. This results in an almost entirely solo experience from level 1 to cap, which many people find unappealing.

The third is reason is another design choice that could be avoided, but generally isn't. By it's nature, quest chaining moves you from place to place "conveyor belt" style through the game. Players almost never return to an area they have finished. For many, it quashes all sense of exploration and control that they have over their character.

Personally, I think "quest chaining" at it's simplest, could be outstanding. But as of yet, almost no one has accomplished the feat.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

no didn't quite care for FFXI much to play it more than 6 months forced group leveling really turned me away from it

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While I don't feel strongly one way or the other about instance and open world content (though as a casual player who does not participate actively, it is sometimes hard to find people to do instances with), I feel the need to back Rokien up on this one.

Campaign from FFXI was a beautiful piece of game design. It provided repeatable, interesting, dynamic content where the size of your group did not matter so much as the total number of people participating. It operated similarly to Hamlet Defense, except that it was open world, and all you had to do was speak to a guard to enter. Once you had entered, any action you took (be it support, healing, taking damage, or attacking) gave you points toward your prize at the end. It promoted teamwork without punishing those without a team.

In fact, because you could attack any target, even those claimed outside your party, extra-party or even extra-alliance teamwork was encouraged and valuable. Monsters were difficult enough that it often did take a party or alliance to kill them, but a large enough group of random soloers could also accomplish the task. If with a bit more difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Oh, why you playing this game then....... -.-

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because I absolutely love the FF series and its not FFXI

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Originally Posted by Krausus

because I absolutely love the FF series and its not FFXI

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your giong to be forced group even more so... If you hated ffxi for that.... idk what to say, you missed out on a great game.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

your giong to be forced group even more so... If you hated ffxi for that.... idk what to say, you missed out on a great game.

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I dont mind grouping in fact I enjoy it in XIV I hated it in XI its was boring you spent way to much time killing 1 mob for little reward (even though it was better then the reward for soloing). What makes me enjoy XIV group leveling is the fast paced high reward you get from it. But also in XIV soloing isn't near as bad as it was in XI. in XI it was so bad it flt like it was not an option.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

The problem most people seem to have with Quest Chaining is three-fold. While nice in concept, the quests tend to be extremely dull and uninteresting (not entirely the developers' fault, it's pretty hard to make literally hundreds of quests all interesting without a lot of repeats).

The second reason is that it tends to be solitary in nature. While it could be designed otherwise, to my knowledge, every game that uses quest chaining has made the quests soloable. This results in an almost entirely solo experience from level 1 to cap, which many people find unappealing.

The third is reason is another design choice that could be avoided, but generally isn't. By it's nature, quest chaining moves you from place to place "conveyor belt" style through the game. Players almost never return to an area they have finished. For many, it quashes all sense of exploration and control that they have over their character.

Personally, I think "quest chaining" at it's simplest, could be outstanding. But as of yet, almost no one has accomplished the feat.

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Aha, yes I see what you mean. I guess I have a good example myself, having played City of Heroes. There levelling is done basically exclusively through quest-based progression and I dare say they've refined it extensively. You proceed through a series of actually pretty interesting and diverse story arcs, at a point you even so far as hit a particular story arc that is about going back and doing previous arcs you've missed on 'extra hard' mode because there's time-travelling villains showing up. And then they also got entire party-based 'quest-chains' as well.

But yes, I do see how a badly-implemented system would feel pretty droll and I believe I now see where people's true problems lie with.

So, we have new open world content, the primals!!! Oh wait.... it's actually instanced..

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Originally Posted by Rokien

So, we have new open world content, the primals!!! Oh wait.... it's actually instanced..

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Will you stop reviving your threads for one since you can easily put it in one of the other ones that "relate" to it

and the Primals are half open World, Half instanced. They are Open world till some one claims them after which they become instanced. ( which isn't that bad).

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Originally Posted by Rokien

So, we have new open world content, the primals!!! Oh wait.... it's actually instanced..

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I thought you wanted people to have a reason to explore the open world? This is pretty much everything that you've been talking about in your multiple similar threads. Primals aren't in a set location, you need to explore. The main reason why the fight itself is probably instanced is because of grieving and dynamics.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

So, we have new open world content, the primals!!! Oh wait.... it's actually instanced..

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The way it works, you're still fighting for the claim, and you still have to roam around for the primal in the first place.

The reason why it's instanced is so that it can be dynamic. I can't see Mog working well in an open world, nor Ifrit/Garuda.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The way it works, you're still fighting for the claim, and you still have to roam around for the primal in the first place.

The reason why it's instanced is so that it can be dynamic. I can't see Mog working well in an open world, nor Ifrit/Garuda.

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Exactly! That's the only difference, is when you claim you go into an Instanced... You still roam to find it ( which can be anywhere in the game), You still see Possible other people going after it.. only difference.. is you go into an instanced when you Actually fight it.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The way it works, you're still fighting for the claim, and you still have to roam around for the primal in the first place.

The reason why it's instanced is so that it can be dynamic. I can't see Mog working well in an open world, nor Ifrit/Garuda.

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I know how it works.... I'm really happy that you have to find it. I don't wanna be disconnected from the world even more so than the game is going to do.

Instead of being teleported to some random area, they should have made the area you claimed it the battle feild. When you claim it, ifrit could put a big ring of fire around the area, where nobody can pass it. So it's even more dynamic and you can watch people fight em.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I know how it works.... I'm really happy that you have to find it. I don't wanna be disconnected from the world even more so than the game is going to do.

Instead of being teleported to some random area, they should have made the area you claimed it the battle feild. When you claim it, ifrit could put a big ring of fire around the area, where nobody can pass it. So it's even more dynamic and you can watch people fight em.

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Note to self: Nothing pleases Rokien *puts it on my forehead*

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Note to self: Nothing pleases Rokien *puts it on my forehead*

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So you wouldn't like to see people fight it, you would have them just teleport away into an instance instead of keeping it in the world?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

I know how it works.... I'm really happy that you have to find it. I don't wanna be disconnected from the world even more so than the game is going to do.

Instead of being teleported to some random area, they should have made the area you claimed it the battle feild. When you claim it, ifrit could put a big ring of fire around the area, where nobody can pass it. So it's even more dynamic and you can watch people fight em.

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Then more people get close by, and even more appear. Then your screen begins to lag because of all the characters around you that your computer needs to load. Then the lag screws you over and someone else takes it. Don't kind yourself, you know a large amount of people would be watching the fight.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

Then more people get close by, and even more appear. Then your screen begins to lag because of all the characters around you that your computer needs to load. Then the lag screws you over and someone else takes it. Don't kind yourself, you know a large amount of people would be watching the fight.

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Lag wont be an issue in 2.0 Yoshi even said it himself. It's also easy to have everyone that isn't in the party to not show up but a few..... I mean, there's ways around it.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

So you wouldn't like to see people fight it, you would have them just teleport away into an instance instead of keeping it in the world?

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I would rather not waist my time watching, when I can " Progress" on what I'm doing (It would be "nice" sure but its not a big deal to me really). Maybe if they allow it, they can ask people if they would like to watch the Instanced battle from the sidelines ( if that's even possible) that would be cool.. but Its not game-breaking to me if its not visible)

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Lag wont be an issue in 2.0 Yoshi even said it himself. It's also easy to have everyone that isn't in the party to not show up but a few..... I mean, there's ways around it.

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You do know that the latency between the server and your connection doesn't affect your computer being overloaded by the amount of characters that are loading right?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I would rather not waist my time watching, when I can " Progress" on what I'm doing (It would be "nice" sure but its not a big deal to me really). Maybe if they allow it, they can ask people if they would like to watch the Instanced battle from the sidelines ( if that's even possible) that would be cool.. but Its not game-breaking to me if its not visible)

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you know you don't have to watch someone kill something if you don't want to.... also this would make it a different battlefield every time you fight one. Maybe if you find ifrit in a snow area he will be weaker than if you fiight em in a lava area.

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

You do know that the latency between the server and your connection doesn't affect your computer being overloaded by the amount of characters that are loading right?

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If there are no chars. being loaded there is no effect.... also pretty sure 20 people wont effect anything. even if it was 100 people it shouldn't effect anything. As yoshi said, in 2.0 lag wont be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

If there are no chars. being loaded there is no effect.... also pretty sure 20 people wont effect anything. even if it was 100 people it shouldn't effect anything. As yoshi said, in 2.0 lag wont be an issue.

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I think I give up...

If i wanted to watch someone kill something. I'll go watch a youtube video.

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Originally Posted by Xianghua

If i wanted to watch someone kill something. I'll go watch a youtube video.

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lol..........................

Also, as I predicted most open world content will be quest chaining.

So, besides watching a few Primals roam the world and quests

Yoshi, what else can you give us for our open world needs?

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Originally Posted by Rokien

If there are no chars. being loaded there is no effect.... also pretty sure 20 people wont effect anything. even if it was 100 people it shouldn't effect anything. As yoshi said, in 2.0 lag wont be an issue.

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Not if there's 200+ people try to watch it.. the fight can get laggy to them and can be the ultimate cause of their defeat.. No lag is true.. but ever server hits it limit before it becomes laggy.. They are just preventing that from happening.

I agree on one thing though.. if the Instanced area is a different battlefield that can effect the Primal to be Weaker/Stronger/Normal, I would go for some diversity. but agian if its just Fire= Ifirt Shiva= Ice.. then I'm cool with that.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Not if there's 200+ people try to watch it.. the fight can get laggy to them and can be the ultimate cause of their defeat.. No lag is true.. but ever server hits it limit before it becomes laggy.. They are just preventing that from happening.

I agree on one thing though.. if the Instanced area is a different battlefield that can effect the Primal to be Weaker/Stronger/Normal, I would go for some diversity. but agian if its just Fire= Ifirt Shiva= Ice.. then I'm cool with that.

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You can set the number of pcs that pop up ya know, to help with the taxing of your computer. Yoshi even said so.... So, i don't see how this is an issue.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You can set the number of pcs that pop up ya know, to help with the taxing of your computer. Yoshi even said so.... So, i don't see how this is an issue.

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Yeah.. like I want to change my setting every time I want to have a crowd watch me beat up a Roaming Primal... it becomes an Annoyance after awhile...

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You can set the number of pcs that pop up ya know, to help with the taxing of your computer. Yoshi even said so.... So, i don't see how this is an issue.

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So you'll switch it mid fight? What if you keep it at a high number, enter the fight and can't change it because there is no time?

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

So you'll switch it mid fight? What if you keep it at a high number, enter the fight and can't change it because there is no time?

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Yeah it be like:

- Party claims monsters
- There's 200 people there.. ok as we fight the "Claimed Primal and currently attacking us" we stop what were doing to change settings and hope to "not die"

Um.... I rather not have that....

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Originally Posted by Rokien

You can set the number of pcs that pop up ya know, to help with the taxing of your computer. Yoshi even said so.... So, i don't see how this is an issue.

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The game currently is capped. Have you ran through Ul'dah? Try changing your equipment near Ul'dah's repair NPC and see just how laggy the game still can be.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

The game currently is capped. Have you ran through Ul'dah? Try changing your equipment near Ul'dah's repair NPC and see just how laggy the game still can be.

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why are you comparing 1.0 to 2.0?

Again why have an open world if the game can't handle 100+ things on a screen.

Some of the things you guys think v2 will entirely fix is really unrealistic. Hey guys, 2.0 is going to invent faster-than-light communications!

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

The way it works, you're still fighting for the claim, and you still have to roam around for the primal in the first place.

The reason why it's instanced is so that it can be dynamic. I can't see Mog working well in an open world, nor Ifrit/Garuda.

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I give BG 1 day before they create an app to locate wandering primals.