Can we use ACT to recognize who is griefing the party and report them afterwards?

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

No, in fact its quite simple. You have damage spells as a healer, ere go the game expects you to use them. Often.

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And it's pretty rare to find a healer that doesn't dps. It's also not uncommon to find especially co-healers that don't heal and only dps.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

No, in fact its quite simple. You have damage spells as a healer, ere go the game expects you to use them. Often.

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I'm not arguing against using them, it's more a comment on how this debate has raged, frequently, since about 2013.

I don't play healer hardly at all as I'm not very good at it truth be told, as a tank though I love a healer that spams holy like it's going out of fashion. That said if a fight is dragging on too long it's the DPS I look at, not the healer. Healer DPS is a nice added bonus especially while tanks are as OP as they are right now so it's great when a healer put in some numbers but I don't sweat about it if they don't.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Honest question. If you aren't saving Bene for something planned, why wouldn't you use it in a situation like that?

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For newer content especially where not everyone's geared yet, the tank should be pushing your healing intensity a little with big pulls. With a lot of dungeons there's usually that turn or alleyway of pulls especially where you should save bene just in case the tempo is off. Once people are actually geared enough, I really only use Bene as a last second "oh no I may have dps'd a little too much".

I'm safe enough with my healing though that I can dangle a tanks life and focus on DPS though. For the whole healer DPS thing, I can't say I ever cared as a non-healer if the healer themselves are DPSing or not. Some people are either not that good, get too anxious to multi-task, or netflixing after their 10th dungeon for the day. It's really whatever. The extra 5 minutes is not going to pop a blood vessel. Probably a big reason someone like me can last a decade here and these more... intense about the subject only last a few months or a year.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

For newer content especially where not everyone's geared yet, the tank should be pushing your healing intensity a little with big pulls. With a lot of dungeons there's usually that turn or alleyway of pulls especially where you should save bene just in case the tempo is off. Once people are actually geared enough, I really only use Bene as a last second "oh no I may have dps'd a little too much".

I'm safe enough with my healing though that I can dangle a tanks life and focus on DPS though. For the whole healer DPS thing, I can't say I ever cared as a non-healer if the healer themselves are DPSing or not. Some people are either not that good, get too anxious to multi-task, or netflixing after their 10th dungeon for the day. It's really whatever. The extra 5 minutes is not going to pop a blood vessel. Probably a big reason someone like me can last a decade here and these more... intense about the subject only last a few months or a year.

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SCH main here, and I get that, but the point was...If you aren't using Bene then, then what are you saving it for? It exists to be used, after all...

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

SCH main here, and I get that, but the point was...If you aren't using Bene then, then what are you saving it for? It exists to be used, after all...

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No you're completely right. There's some level of high cool downs and people not using them for obscure reasoning that they might have to save them for later. Cant tell you how many times I never used my 2hour in FFXI simply because it had a 2 hour cooldown and I "might need it later" despite planning to logoff for the night in 30 min XD

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

And it's pretty rare to find a healer that doesn't dps.

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what game are you playing and can I play it too?

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

what game are you playing and can I play it too?

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Yeah it's called final fantasy 14 you know the real game not the one played on the forum.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yeah it's called final fantasy 14 you know the real game not the one played on the forum.

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I don't know, the game as you describe seems pretty at odds with what multiple player have described here. It's okay to be wrong, and you don't have to defend them.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

I don't know, the game as you describe seems pretty at odds with what multiple player have described here. It's okay to be wrong, and you don't have to defend them.

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The forums have always been at odds with my experience in the actual game. Many forum topics have a grain of truth for sure but its ALWAYS massively exaggerated over my actual game experience. It doesn't matter what the subject is either, same story.

So which is it? That we can use ACT but not lord it over people or you flat out just can't use it. Because I swear I've seen both arguments a thousand times over on the forums and in game.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

So which is it? That we can use ACT but not lord it over people or you flat out just can't use it. Because I swear I've seen both arguments a thousand times over on the forums and in game.

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Official line is its banned, its just everyone knows nothing will happen if you use it and keep it to yourself.

I say give it a try. All those people saying no probably don't meld materia to their level 80 gear.

Can you steal a gun and kill a bank robber and not get charged with stealing the gun?

SE is not afraid of the "harassment" official parsers would bring, as ToS would still apply. What they fear is the playerbase finding out how inadequate they are. The illusion would crack when they are faced with their own failures.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

SE is not afraid of the "harassment" official parsers would bring, as ToS would still apply. What they fear is the playerbase finding out how inadequate they are. The illusion would crack when they are faced with their own failures.

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https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...24/446/29c.gif

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

SE is not afraid of the "harassment" official parsers would bring, as ToS would still apply. What they fear is the playerbase finding out how inadequate they are. The illusion would crack when they are faced with their own failures.

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Players would rather quit than improve. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...24/446/29c.gif

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https://i.gifer.com/WG0O.gif

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

If only ACT, or a SE made alternative, was made official I could see this great community imploding over the mountain of inadequacies they would be forced to face.

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Will. not. happen.

you flat out cannot use it without risking a ban it's just that the game master has not reached you yet to yell "stop right there criminal scum you have violated the tos" and issued a perma ban

gaming is a privilege not a right obey the terms of service

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

What they fear is the kind of vicious, malicious misuse and abuse it brings. The parser CAN be a tool if used properly, the problem is it is MISUSED badly and ALL THE TIME.

Three examples from that stellar MMO that uses parsers

"We need a trial to get this boss down and see if you can make the raid team. Master loot." so the encounter ends, said "trial" does extremely well, is denied any loot AT ALL, even when they win the roll for an item "XYZ did more dps than you anyway so they deserve it more"

So said person leaves the instance, not only empty handed but CHEATED od a mount or item

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... Do you do savage to imagine such a ridiculous scenario?

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

What they fear is the kind of vicious, malicious misuse and abuse it brings. The parser CAN be a tool if used properly, the problem is it is MISUSED badly and ALL THE TIME.

Three examples from that stellar MMO that uses parsers

"We need a trial to get this boss down and see if you can make the raid team. Master loot." so the encounter ends, said "trial" does extremely well, is denied any loot AT ALL, even when they win the roll for an item "XYZ did more dps than you anyway so they deserve it more"

So said person leaves the instance, not only empty handed but CHEATED od a mount or item

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What game are you playing?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

... Do you do savage to imagine such a ridiculous scenario?

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No he is not making that up depending on which MMO it is he is thinking of. As there are quite a few that still handle loot in said fashion in relation to trials.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No he is not making that up..its very true in said stellar mmo that he mentions. Trials get nothing until they prove themselves and that varies from raid group to raid group. One group may have you wait 2 weeks another 4 months...

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But this isn't that MMO.
If someone agrees to join lootmaster without discussing in-game how the rewards will be distributed beforehand on a weekly-locked duty, they're nothing short of a fool.

Oh, you guys mean like Maplestory?

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

But this isn't that MMO.
If someone agrees to join lootmaster without discussing in-game how the rewards will be distributed beforehand on a weekly-locked duty, they're nothing short of a fool.

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The MMO's that still run this way loot rules are explained to trails, you accept the rules or leave. 14 may not be that way but other MMO's, still handle things in that fashion to curve people gearing up and running off.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

you flat out cannot use it without risking a ban it's just that the game master has not reached you yet to yell "stop right there criminal scum you have violated the tos" and issued a perma ban

gaming is a privilege not a right obey the terms of service

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This is ridiculous. First of all, games should have something that measures how much dps you are putting out there, I shouldn't have to download third-party apps just to have my DPS calculated. With ffxiv I have to download and install a third-party app just to have a basic feature that is more or less essential if someone is actually looking to play as best as they can. And on top of that third-party app is "technically" against ToS. In other words, it is against ToS to know how well or bad you are actually playing.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

The MMO's that still run this way loot rules are explained to trails, you accept the rules or leave. 14 may not be that way but other MMO's, still handle things in that fashion to curve people gearing up and running off.

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But then his example of why "parsers bad" wouldn't apply to 14.
Even after his edit now it's pretty clear he's imagining things that won't happen because of how carebear the community is.

People always used parsers, an officially supported parser won't mean that suddenly it's okay to abuse people over numbers, it has never been and it will never be.

Also his claim that "FFXIV doesn't need parsers" cements that he doesn't do content where parsers can be necessary.

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. With ffxiv I have to download and install a third-party app just to have a basic feature that is more or less essential if someone is actually looking to play as best as they can. And on top of that third-party app is "technically" against ToS. In other words, it is against ToS to know how well or bad you are actually playing.

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FF 14 does not need a parser and it isnt essential at all.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

FF 14 does not need a parser and it isnt essential at all.

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I need a parser to know who to give my cards to, who to dance partner, to figure out what I potentially did wrong.

Parsers are gonna be needed as long as harder content have DPS checks.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

In other words, it is against ToS to know how well or bad you are actually playing.

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It's a case of past actions leading to "this is why we can't have nice things".

Tools used this tool to call out low performers - like the OP of the thread in fact - and this is something YoshiP doesn't want in his game. Just like he doesn't want to hurt people's feelings when you defriend (so that's one way only).

If those tools used it only for their own education, and never started threads asking if they can report people, or call out people, then it would likely have been allowed. But that horse has long bolted.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

But then his example of why "parsers" bad wouldn't apply to 14.
Even after his edit now it's pretty clear he's imagining things that won't happen because of how carebear the community is.

People always used parsers, an officially supported parser won't mean that suddenly it's okay to abuse people over numbers, it has never been and it will never be.

Also his claim that "FFXIV doesn't need parsers" cements that he doesn't do content where parsers can be necessary.

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No it does not apply to FF14. But if SE did allow them they would likely be personal only. Which would lead to players right back to using ACT especially in Savage/ult no win situtation if you ask me. I understand their importance in savage/ult, Sure SE understands it but they would rather play safe then sorry on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

It's a case of past actions leading to "this is why we can't have nice things".

Tools used this tool to call out low performers - like the OP of the thread in fact - and this is something YoshiP doesn't want in his game. Just like he doesn't want to hurt people's feelings when you defriend (so that's one way only).

If those tools used it only for their own education, and never started threads asking if they can report people, or call out people, then it would likely have been allowed. But that horse has long bolted.

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If you are defending trollers, please don't talk to me. Griefing is not low performance, it is toxic performance. People are right that I don't actually need parsing to detect a troller in a dungeon. With experience, it becomes easy to identify who is trolling.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

This is ridiculous. First of all, games should have something that measures how much dps you are putting out there, I shouldn't have to download third-party apps just to have my DPS calculated. With ffxiv I have to download and install a third-party app just to have a basic feature that is more or less essential if someone is actually looking to play as best as they can. And on top of that third-party app is "technically" against ToS. In other words, it is against ToS to know how well or bad you are actually playing.

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or you could i dunno obey the tos and not risk getting banned i know it's hard choice for some people but seeing years of work down the drain because you wanted a dps tool is not worth it

like i said gaming is a privilege not a right Yoshi P and Se has already told the community where they stand the ToS is crystal clear there is no room for interpretation

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

No it does not apply to FF14. But if SE did allow them they would likely be personal only. Which would lead to players right back to using ACT especially in Savage/ult no win situtation if you ask me. I understand their importance in savage/ult, Sure SE understands it but they would rather play safe then sorry on the matter.

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I said this in a different thread before but it is not just savage/ultimate, without ACT and especially logs we wouldn't really know anything.
Those guides you use to learn how to play your job? Wouldn't exist without it.
Stat priorities for your job? Wouldn't exist without it.
Job rotations? Wouldn't exist without it.


You need clear, objective information on how a job performs dps-wise when you execute x sequence of abilities to determine whether or not it is the "optimal" use of those abilities.
Sure for some jobs it would still be possible, Warrior is so simple that you could probably figure out the rotation without any kind of extra information, just by looking at the cooldowns and buff timers.
But for something like Summoner? Good luck figuring out how it's really supposed to be played by just looking at it's abilities.

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Originally Posted by _Koneko_

or you could i dunno obey the tos and not risk getting banned i know it's hard choice for some people but seeing years of work down the drain because you wanted a dps tool is not worth it

like i said gaming is a privilege not a right Yoshi P and Se has already told the community where they stand the ToS is crystal clear there is no room for interpretation

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If a GM seriously decides to ban me for using ACT I will go to Control Panel, search for FFXIV and uninstall. This is bs I am not putting up with. I really don't care about the reasons why the ToS is so poorly made. I will buy alpha for AoC and maybe put more hours into studying instead of playing.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

I said this in a different thread before but it is not just savage/ultimate, without ACT and especially logs we wouldn't really know anything.
Those guides you use to learn how to play your job? Wouldn't exist without it.
Stat priorities for your job? Wouldn't exist without it.
Job rotations? Wouldn't exist without it.


You need clear, objective information on how a job performs dps-wise when you execute x sequence of abilities to determine whether or not it is the "optimal" use of those abilities.
Sure for some jobs it would still be possible, Warrior is so simple that you could probably figure out the rotation without any kind of extra information, just by looking at the cooldowns and buff timers.
But for something like Summoner? Good luck figuring out how it's really supposed to be played by just looking at it's abilities.

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Nah, if ACT didn't exist people would just do the math the hard way, like they have for 2 decades or more. ACT and theory crafting are not tied in any way. ACT might make it easier for the majority but people who are really good at math would work it all out based on potency values and testing, hours and hours of testing.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

If you are defending trollers, please don't talk to me.

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I'm not. I am making the point why this is the way it is. Too many tools wanting to use them to call people out - like the very OP of this thread asking "Can we use ACT to recognize who is griefing the party and report them afterwards?" instead of just kicking, or in the worst cases reporting without using the parser.

They have their uses for personal use (knowing who to partner as an example), and are very important in the savage scene, but there are way too many tools in this game, in all MMOS, who use ACT and similar to call out people.

Using them needs you to stay silent about the fact, to 100% turn a blind eye to other people's lack of performance. If you find they make your blood boil - turn them off in PUGS.

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Originally Posted by Roeshel

If a GM seriously decides to ban me for using ACT I will go to Control Panel, search for FFXIV and uninstall. This is bs I am not putting up with. I really don't care about the reasons why the ToS is so poorly made. I will buy alpha for AoC and maybe put more hours into studying instead of playing.

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As we have already told you. You will not get banned for using ACT. Not unless you're dumb enough to advertise it in game. Or even worse, decide to harass someone with your parser readout. If you're someone inclined to do that, have fun in Mordion Gaol, I certainly won't sympathize with you. If all you want is to use ACT to gauge your own potential for improvement.. then you won't get in trouble for using it.. because SE won't even know that you do.

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Originally Posted by Shibi

I'm not. I am making the point why this is the way it is. Too many tools wanting to use them to call people out - like the very OP of this thread asking "Can we use ACT to recognize who is griefing the party and report them afterwards?" instead of just kicking, or in the worst cases reporting without using the parser.

They have their uses for personal use (knowing who to partner as an example), and are very important in the savage scene, but there are way too many tools in this game, in all MMOS, who use ACT and similar to call out people.

Using them needs you to stay silent about the fact, to 100% turn a blind eye to other people's lack of performance. If you find they make your blood boil - turn them off in PUGS.

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For the record, the person you're quoting.. is the OP.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

What they fear is the playerbase finding out how inadequate they are. The illusion would crack when they are faced with their own failures.

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I can agree that finding how bad you are could be disheartening. When I was levelling black mage I thought about dropping the class because my AoE dps was a joke even though I was using my AoE abilities. But I gave it time and eventually learned how to play. After I learned how to cast flare properly my explosions started feeling like Megumin's explosions from Konosuba, the difference being that I can cast it a lot faster and still with the same destructive power.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Yeah it's called final fantasy 14 you know the real game not the one played on the forum.

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oh so the matoya I did earlier where the whm used like 10 glares and never used a single holy throughout the whole dungeon wasn't real
or the whm spamming cure 1 in doma castle and wondering why the tank is dying
yeah, both totally didn't happen, I'm just making this up
get off your high horse and accept that bad players exist and people run into them, just because you don't notice it or don't care doesn't mean they don't exist