Dizzines & Intense Nausea while playing Tower at Paradigm's Breach

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

What makes more sense is looking at the purpose of each roulette then seeing whether that feature could possibly be rolled out. That is fairer - you just admitted that some people would abuse that feature - that could possibly lead to some players not completed quests required for the MSQ or relic quests, etc.

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So... What I'm getting here is we're not allowed to have quality of life features if any person could ever abuse them?

If that's your argument, it's time to get rid of the party finder and shout chat.

Most people just don't care enough to blacklist everything, and even if they did, we both know that the devs would never allow it.

So what if a small percentage of the playerbase blacklists the entire Crystal Tower raid series? All that means is they'll have longer queues to pay for it.
This all balances out, as long as you're willing to accept that most people just don't feel particularly strongly about any particular duty.
In contrast of course, I'd happily wait an extra 5 minutes in every DPS queue if it meant that I'd never have to do Aurum Vale or Dzemael Darkhold again.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

All the people who remove their gear to guarantee a LotA run would like a word with you <3

Maybe it's those people forcing CT to pop for the majority of people's AR roulettes are the real selfish people here?

People already abuse the ilvl system. What would be fair is just give us a handful of available duties to lock. 2-3 would work.

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The reason crystal tower comes up so much is more to do with player levels than anytbing else. It's a 24 man duty. If just one of them is level 59 or lower your gonna get one of the crystal tower raids.

And with 24 players it's highly likely at least one will be 59 or lower doing alliance roulette for the massive exp at the end.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The reason crystal tower comes up so much is more to do with player levels than anytbing else. It's a 24 man duty. If just one of them is level 59 or lower your gonna get one of the crystal tower raids.

And with 24 players it's highly likely at least one will be 59 or lower doing alliance roulette for the massive exp at the end.

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And by that same logic, just one person queing with their gear off will also put you in the alliance raid. Really, jump in on a SCH and listen for that magic sound of people putting their gear back on. It's nearly every time.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

And by that same logic, just one person queing with their gear off will also put you in the alliance raid. Really, jump in on a SCH and listen for that magic sound of people putting their gear back on. It's nearly every time.

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Doesn't that only make a sound when you also change class? I'm pretty sure just switching gear is silent.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Doesn't that only make a sound when you also change class? I'm pretty sure just switching gear is silent.

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Yeah, there is no sound for when players put armor on or take it off.

Scholar in particular is because, when someone puts their gear back on, their HP will need refilling, so you'll hear the fairy automatically healing them.

I'm extremely uncomfortable in the Red Girl fight. Beyond being disorienting for me, there is a JUMP SCARE in it and I'm extremely sensitive to it... I know when it'll happen, but I never get used to it. One time I thought I was gonna have a heart attack because my reaction to it was so bad. It makes me want to not run that alliance raid at all. That alliance raid is a terrible tense experience for me because of it.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I am just hoping we someday get blacklists to DF.

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No more Neverreap or Byakko? I'd be good with that.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Scholar in particular is because, when someone puts their gear back on, their HP will need refilling, so you'll hear the fairy automatically healing them.

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The fairy automatically heals people when you pop into a duty with a large party anyway because your HP automatically goes up when you're with 7 other people.

1) Has anyone else experienced this after playing Tower?
I have pretty bad motion and light sensitivity, and there's a lot of things in this raid that are overwhelming. I do my best to get in and out for the weekly coin, but it's going to be a hard sell once hunt trains get back to normal. The biggest issue for me is the elevator miniboss fight. Luckily, I've had friends willing to carry me through that and just tell me where to run as I stared at the ground, but it does leave me shaking. To be honest, I think I'm shaking before I get to that point, but that just points to the Red Girl fight being too much graphically for me as well. I also feel like I need to make a note for my girlfriend and my raid leader experiencing intense vertigo during the final boss fight (when you need to look down at the tower through the see through ground). THAT particular mechanic doesn't mess with me as much, but I feel like it should be noted.

2) Have you needed medical attention after playing Tower?
It hasn't hospitalized me or anything, but I certainly have to rest up after I do it. It takes so much out of me; I feel like my body was hit by a train, not my character. Some of my friends have recommended I add filters to my monitor display, but I don't think that'll help with the motion sickness hell that is the 5th encounter. Such is the life.

3) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, what do you do to protect yourself from the particle effects in this game?
N/A
4) If you are diagnosed with epilepsy, are you going to play any of the Nier raids or risk Tower at Paradigm's Breach?
N/A, but as someone who gets severely motion sick and had to stop playing the actual Nier, I'll try to do what I can do be a good raider and stop once I'm able. If I have to take the penalty, I feel like people will be understanding after that point. I'm honestly glad I got my 2,000 mentor roulettes before the patch. It lowers my odds of getting this outside of my personal premeditated torment.

I also feel like I have to say I enjoy the raid mechanically. If they add settings to even remove the elevator background, I'd be willing to do it more readily rather than it being an actual pain each week.

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Originally Posted by Starshower

I'm extremely uncomfortable in the Red Girl fight. Beyond being disorienting for me, there is a JUMP SCARE in it and I'm extremely sensitive to it... I know when it'll happen, but I never get used to it. One time I thought I was gonna have a heart attack because my reaction to it was so bad. It makes me want to not run that alliance raid at all. That alliance raid is a terrible tense experience for me because of it.

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I seriously hate that entire fight. The hacking thing (not a Nier fan) is annoying to me. The jump scare doesn't scare me, but it does mean I can't see anything going on that I may need to pay attention to. I only run this place for my coin but up to my third run now I'm noticing the static more, especially in that fight.

I hate this place and I hate that it has the chance to come up in Alliance Roulette now and in the future.

This thread actually made me concerned about trying the new Nier raid because I have a history of getting nausea that feels exactly like motion sickness with some games, mostly first person games. And before anyone asks yes I have tried to power through and build up a resistance but feeling sick for a half hour after just a few minutes of play was too much to deal with over and over again.

Thankfully I didn't experience nausea in the new Nier raid but what did happen is I got very disorientated in the last fight due to some particle effects on the ground in black and white constantly flashing. Looking at them too much made me feel light headed and it felt as if my depth perception was diminishing. I could deal with it by focusing elsewhere on the screen, but something like that has never happened to me before. Very strange.

I did however experience motion sickness at a brief moment in the second Nier raid, that part when you got into that curved cabin area with 2B's room. Whatever way the camerawork is designed there it makes my stomach turn really fast. Fortunately it's just that tiny moment.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The fairy automatically heals people when you pop into a duty with a large party anyway because your HP automatically goes up when you're with 7 other people.

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a whole 5k worth of hp? thinking.jpg

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, there is no sound for when players put armor on or take it off.

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The sound is from the fairy healing. The amount of hp you lose from the gain in a full party doesn't trigger the fairy. It only does that when people are putting their gear back on when they enter the instance. Changing jobs doesn't do this.


Edit: Though, this kind of proves my point. This does happen to the degree that I, a DF fiend, can notice it happening pretty regularly, but it's not something you'll see often if you only go into AR roulette once a day. Clearly people find this loophole for no blacklist, but the HW raids and above still pop up. From this I'm saying that letting people blacklist a raid or dungeon they hate will not impact the que in a way that we aren't experiencing already. By that I mean: you won't notice at all (unless you know what you're looking for with you LotA lovers).

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

a whole 5k worth of hp? thinking.jpg



The sound is from the fairy healing. The amount of hp you lose from the gain in a full party doesn't trigger the fairy. It only does that when people are putting their gear back on when they enter the instance. Changing jobs doesn't do this.

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I literally had a fairy heal me when queuing into NieR raid due to the full party effect but OK.

Also, I don't think you need to wait to put equipment back on right when the duty starts. I'm pretty sure you can take the equipment off, queue for duty, and then put it back on while you're still queuing and before it pops. I think the game looks at your ilvl when you press the button to queue.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I literally had a fairy heal me when queuing into NieR raid due to the full party effect but OK.

Also, I don't think you need to wait to put equipment back on right when the duty starts. I'm pretty sure you can take the equipment off, queue for duty, and then put it back on while you're still queuing and before it pops. I think the game looks at your ilvl when you press the button to queue.

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That's because your HP is actually going up in the Nier raid. When you are in scaled content like CT, the gain is so small your natural regen ticks before the fairy is even aware of it.

You're also right about the gear. I just know quite a few people who walk around naked before entering.

You don't need to wait yeah ^^ Queue naked and equip gear before it pops works, unless the pop is instant

the raid was boring overall. i too felt my eyes were about to pop out.
i like nier but i never were fan of that map. its dull and boring to look at.

My eyesight isn't the best, though so far I haven't had any issues with the raid itself.

I like the raid's aesthetics - there's a certain haunting beauty to the area which I really enjoy.

• With consideration for player accessibility, certain battle effects in the alliance raid the Tower at Paradigm's Breach have been adjusted.

I can see how that might happen with the higher contrast and rapid patterns. Even if you're not seizure prone, that could cause eye strain and discomfort.
For now, I'd recommend turning down the contrast on your screen, lowering the effects to minimum, and playing in a well lit room, with enough distance from the screen. Hopefully that can mitigate it. If you're still having issues, you may want to talk to a doctor about it

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I can see how that might happen with the higher contrast and rapid patterns. Even if you're not seizure prone, that could cause eye strain and discomfort.
For now, I'd recommend turning down the contrast on your screen, lowering the effects to minimum, and playing in a well lit room, with enough distance from the screen. Hopefully that can mitigate it. If you're still having issues, you may want to talk to a doctor about it

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I tried laying in bed and sitting ALL the way back from the TV during this fight. It actually did help for me.

Although a bit odd, I did try not consuming excessive amounts of sugar, and only eating anti inflammatory foods. It oddly did offer some relief from the effects. I even tested it on days where I did eat healthy, and didn't, and it seems that on healthier days, I do appear to have less nausea from the raid.

I'm no doctor, but it is thought that some migraines are caused by your diet. Of course mine have many causes, but it is at the very least worth experimenting with different things to help your migraines, nausea, and/or motion sickness. No person is going to need the same alterations to their life. Everyone is different, and I encourage everyone to go out there and try different things to improve their health, no matter how crazy, or odd it might seem to others. Go do you. c:

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• With consideration for player accessibility, certain battle effects in the alliance raid the Tower at Paradigm's Breach have been adjusted.

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Just saw that in the patch notes. Wonder what they're changing.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Just saw that in the patch notes. Wonder what they're changing.

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Having just run it, it honestly didn't feel like they changed a whole lot. I think the Red girl's "cruelty" had the contrast of it's glitchy effects toned down slightly, because first few times she did it it did not bother me so much...but by the end of the fight my eyes still wound up hurting so it'll still be an issue for those with sensitivity to strobing effects. The other bosses and the elevator fight seem the same as before.

while I have not experienced any of these symptoms myself I'm responding to bump this in support of those that have and potentially will!

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

• With consideration for player accessibility, certain battle effects in the alliance raid the Tower at Paradigm's Breach have been adjusted.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Having just run it, it honestly didn't feel like they changed a whole lot. I think the Red girl's "cruelty" had the contrast of it's glitchy effects toned down slightly, because first few times she did it it did not bother me so much...but by the end of the fight my eyes still wound up hurting so it'll still be an issue for those with sensitivity to strobing effects. The other bosses and the elevator fight seem the same as before.

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Just logged on and read these. It sounds like the modified it a little bit but not much. Certainly enough for me to attempt it, sadly.

Well...at least they tried, sort of.

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Having just run it, it honestly didn't feel like they changed a whole lot. I think the Red girl's "cruelty" had the contrast of it's glitchy effects toned down slightly, because first few times she did it it did not bother me so much...but by the end of the fight my eyes still wound up hurting so it'll still be an issue for those with sensitivity to strobing effects. The other bosses and the elevator fight seem the same as before.

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Yeah I can't really see much difference. Still has the annoying static in most places.

Blatant necro I know, but this needs to be brought up that the devs literally did this again in P3

Red boss on an orange arena with an orange lava wall and an orange sky background doing multiple orange flame mechanics at the same time.

This will be the 3rd time they've done something like this.

Mt. Gulg (took 2 months to "fix")

Nier raid (took 2 months to fix)

and now P3 (guess how long it's taking to fix, 2 months. . . )

The devs need to understand that a section of their playerbase has light sensitivity issues and they're going overboard on some of the effects.

Please, learn from the past and stop implementing things you're going to have to "fix" in the near future.

well, originally shiva trial fight had white markers on a white floor until cilours where adjusted.
knowing this i dont have high hopes SE will change

Did Mt Gulg actually cause problems for people with light sensitivity? I always thought it was just a problem being able to see the aoes against the white floor.

I don't think P3 is problematic, it's just really really ugly. Then again I don't have any sensitivity issues, so I can't speak for anyone on that front.

Oh wow. Be careful!

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Did Mt Gulg actually cause problems for people with light sensitivity? I always thought it was just a problem being able to see the aoes against the white floor.

I don't think P3 is problematic, it's just really really ugly. Then again I don't have any sensitivity issues, so I can't speak for anyone on that front.

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Putting light colored aoe markers on light colored floors is just as problematic as putting orange ones on orange floors or yellow markers on yellow floors (Stigmascape)

To me usually motion blur gives this effect. I literally cannot play Apex Legends because of this.

After 5 minutes I am suffering.

But I have bad news for you cause there are other instances where this can be felt. Like first parts at the coils or in the new 1st extreme EW trial.

Unfortunately there is nothing much to do. They will not change the game, maximum they will give a warning that for some people it will cause issues. Try to avoid that content and lay down a bit if it gets too bad. Health comes first.

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Originally Posted by Shuuli

Unfortunately there is nothing much to do. They will not change the game, maximum they will give a warning that for some people it will cause issues. Try to avoid that content and lay down a bit if it gets too bad. Health comes first.

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But they did change it in the past. I was quite surprised to see that after the past things that they had to change, they would go for another bright monochromatic instance. I ran P3 twice only because of that. It gives me a headache and I have to lay down after it.

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Originally Posted by Rise-chu

I completed Tower at Paradigm's Breach for the first time yesterday and had a terrible experience. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

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I haven't had such a severe reaction, but the section with the white stairs on the white background disorients me every time. I've had some significant hits of anxiety due to fear of heights in some of the jump puzzles and Leap of Faith GATE (especially) and have had to stop doing them. I hope you're able to find some resolution to your problem!

Whenever I end up seeing this thread's title, I expect it to be about to story of the Nier raids, not the visuals...

I had to track this thread down to chime in and say that this is still a problem in 2023. I had to ditch a roulette Tower at Paradigm's Breach after the first boss because by the end of the fight I had developed a throbbing headache and could barely keep my eyes open from eye strain.

At least for me I feel like a very large part of the problem is the visual filter that is applied in the "Network Access" areas that the first few boss fights take place in.

This happens to me sometimes and that's why I try to stay away from those duties. I have done a few that give me bad headaches from the flashing lights to them.

Other than that it make me very sleepy just looking at the screen because of how boring the raid was (except the red girl, very good fight), the screen effect and the elevator fight didnt do much to me

Yeah unfortunately this hasn't changed at all. I still need to angle my camera to the floor in first-person and apologise to my alliance / beg my healers to play rescue tag with me for the elevator boss or I'll have a migraine for the rest of the day.

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Originally Posted by Chie_M

Yeah unfortunately this hasn't changed at all. I still need to angle my camera to the floor in first-person and apologise to my alliance / beg my healers to play rescue tag with me for the elevator boss or I'll have a migraine for the rest of the day.

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I feel like the elevator boss can be an issue if your eyes are unable to focus on something. If I don't focus on my character or the boss during that part, it'll make me sick. It's a bit like Byakko's tornado phase. If your camera is not looking down at him so your eyes can focus on him, you're going to have a bad time.