They should be held to a black and white standard after all. There should be no "grey" areas. Rules should be defined and clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
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03-09-2021, 11:54 AMRavenEbonclaw
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03-09-2021, 12:08 PMAwhaEnd of the day I do not think the GM's will change. They are not perfect and only human, and due to being human their actions will be rooted in their own personal bias. When it comes to actions like ERP or anything 18+ in a game where children play as much as I do not like it given the other thread regarding this. People will always judge what they do not understand or care to understand. As such it is not a hill I am willing to die on. You guys can do you, but personally I do not think it is worth it. Main reason why I avoid saying much of anything in game, I have been reported twice once for dropping the F-bomb, and the other for making a joke about a dragoon killing themselves. I got lucky with one GM, and not so lucky with the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
Sadly GM's in this game do not operate in a black and white fashion, and I doubt they will. I think SE rather not clearly define where the line is so people do not know how far they push it. If the keep in vague in their eyes maybe they think it keeps things more civil. Also SE kinda tanked one mode I have enjoyed with their scorched earth view point. I use to love the feast, but due to the "toxic" nature of PvP they thought it was a good idea to just to remove chat altogether, and even when the PvP community asked to compromise and make it so we could at the very least use chat at the start of a match they ignored us.
So maybe the RP community will get a better answer, but I doubt it in the end. I am just the type of person that likes to focus on what I can do, instead of solely trying to hope for things to change. I do enjoy the discussion though either way. -
03-09-2021, 02:31 PMIscahI've seen this argument brought up a few times, but personally I'd never connect "18+" in an ad to mean "we just want to be an FC for adults and not teenagers". People are still pretty immature at 18 if that's your concern. The age restriction is a legal one for certain content types, not an indicator that someone has turned into a mature adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
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03-09-2021, 03:39 PMSturmChurroAgreed. I don't believe a GM would take action for no reason. They don't actually act on every single report.Quote:
Originally Posted by van_arn
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03-09-2021, 03:45 PMWyssahtynIt's funny that people are pushing the cropped version of that chat log now as gospel. Pretty sure back when the whole thing was posted some time ago people were extremely skeptical of it. Especially given how easy it would apparently be to fabricate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman
Dunno what jurisdiction you live in, but I don't know of any federal or constitutional requirement (*in the US) that requires police to tell you why you're being detained/arrested. Such things are regulated and can vary by state law, but light research into the matter would suggest that most have no such requirements to inform, just that they have a legal reason to detain/arrest in the first place. The only relevant thing I can think of would be invoking habeas corpus to a court, but I would imagine that's typically unnecessary since most people would be arraigned within a reasonable time frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
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03-09-2021, 03:49 PMTheodricIt's also bizarre how often people say that ERP isn't happening yet just happen to have that particular screenshot to hand to explain why, if ERP were happening, it's supposedly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn
Also, it's just a theory but it's possible for GM's to make their character invisible. Who knows? Maybe they saw fit to use that ability, investigated and found something that was highly inappropriate. -
03-09-2021, 03:51 PMCerverThis is more similar to being convicted without knowing what you did, rather than being detained without knowing what you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn
Imagine going to court and both you and your lawyers defense plea is "I still dont know whats going on" -
03-09-2021, 04:15 PMWyssahtynThe other person made the specific claim that police officers are required to give detainees a reason as to why they're being detained, which is what I was addressing. Your post is irrelevant to the claim that I was addressing because I'm not addressing the overall situation as you seem to be, simply the other poster's one specific claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
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03-09-2021, 04:39 PMCerverAh fair, my mistake. Forgive me, I have been dealing with a impudent child for most of this thread and my brain is pretty fried at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn
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03-09-2021, 04:55 PMReinha
Seems like the way to not get banned whilst advertising on the PF, is to replace "18+" with "everyone is welcome" regardless of the theme of the venue. Then the only way to report someone for inappropriate RP is to actually visit the venue, role play with players and have in game text logs of inappropriate /tells if they exist. Instead of this weird "it's probably ERP and don't talk back young lady" witch hunt.
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03-09-2021, 05:11 PMPentheaWhether you connect to an advert or not isn't what matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
I want to know if players are prohibited from advertising a preferred age rating for any form of recruitment, because judging from that GM's response this is possibly the case. Their issue is the advert didn't match the age rating of the game.
I'm sure that even though you wouldn't be interested in a fc that says they're for adults only, it doesn't mean you think they should get in trouble with a GM for merely saying that. -
03-09-2021, 05:36 PMIscahThat's not at all what I meant. I'd be quite happy to aim for an FC targeted "at adults" if that means a group that is more mature in how they behave and talk - but if I was looking for one, "18+" is not the label I would be looking for. That label would make me expect "adult content", not just adults, and make me steer clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penthea
So I'm not saying that people should get in trouble for using the label, but rather that the label is not a good one to convey what they mean even if it is allowed. Putting "18+" on a listing is going to get misconstrued as offering adult content by at least some percentage of viewers, whether it's a mod cracking down on that content, a person looking to engage in it or someone looking to avoid it. -
03-09-2021, 05:44 PMPentheaOkay but this isn't what the GM said, they said the advert didn't align with the game's age rating which is the issue. A person could say their fc is "for adult players only" or "no teens please" and that would still be an advert that doesn't align with the game's age rating. You don't need to exactly say "18+" to make it clear that your advert is not intended for minors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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03-09-2021, 08:06 PMJojoya
As others have said, the issue seems to be the age restriction listed in the PF advertisement.
The game is rated 13+ in NA so if the content at the venue is appropriate for 13+, there's no reason to list it as 18+. You have no way of confirming the age of a player. There are children who act more mature than some adults and some adults who behave far more childishly than some children. Listing an age requirement isn't going to keep annoying people from showing up if they want.
It could be interesting to hear from RP venue operators who don't advertise an age requirement to see how many problems they've had because players who could be confirmed as being ages 13-17 showed up. -
03-09-2021, 08:37 PMRavenEbonclaw
An actual official response offering full situational clarification on topics discussed here would solve many issues.
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03-09-2021, 10:00 PMLianaThorneThis is my best guess for why you got hit with the gaol hammer. ESRB rates the game as 13+ which doesn't include protections for alcohol or other situations that can be found in a nightclub scenario (outside of mild suggestive themes and simulated gambling) I get that around the world this is different, but for the US specifically that is our situation. And I'm also aware that there is a bit that says "In game conversations are not rated" in a nutshell, but that's not for our protection either. If you're in a DC where these situations are allowed by your rating system (I know PEGI isn't as strict as ours for example, since their 18+ rating allows for sexual activity, drug use, alcohol, extreme vulgar language, etc.), more power to you. Have fun. It's just going to be a bit trickier with US DCs because we are locked behind that 13+ window.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojoya
Also, we all know now that people are on a mission to shut down 18+ venues, regardless of what they're actually doing and odds are they won't be stopped. Take for example when we delete a friend off our friends list, they're gone from our end but we are not removed from theirs. This was done literally because staff doesn't want anyone to have their feelings hurt (in a nutshell). I highly doubt that they're going to get strict on people with this because they aren't going to want to take sides.
If ya'll want to keep doing your thing, you gotta learn to hide it better for now until people either get bored and stop or a miracle happens and staff decides to step in and do something about them. -
03-09-2021, 10:12 PMMavriasthe gms don't make the policies. they are customer service reps at the end of the day. when an gm tells you "i can't give you anymore info" they aren't doing it to spite you, they are following the policy as outlined by their superiors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerver
I'm personally not really interested in bullying a customer service rep into giving me info that could potentially get them fired.
@RavenEbonclaw can you post the email the GM said you would receive? I'm curious as to what the further detail they said would be included was. -
03-09-2021, 10:22 PMSaberMaxwell
I remember the good old days on coeurl before xpf, where you were lucky to have more than 5 party finders up at any given time, and most of them weren't even worth looking at cuz you were on coeurl and knew all the competent players were cliqued up anyway.
Can't wait till pf purity is achieved and we go back to those days. -
03-10-2021, 12:07 AMRavenEbonclawEmail response
https://i.imgur.com/zKVrPGo.jpg
There was no profanity said, the entire night by my character. -
03-10-2021, 12:08 AMRavenEbonclaw
Again, still at a loss at what could have been considered “profane” given it wasn’t explained.
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03-10-2021, 12:13 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
A reminder that you werent necessarily jailed for being in pf, it could be for something several days previous (like over the weekend) that the GMs were just getting to.
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03-10-2021, 12:16 AMLanadraThis makes it all the more important to get some kind of an indication as to what it was. Because generally people will look to their most recent session to figure out what they did wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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03-10-2021, 12:33 AMPentheaQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
Yeap, this perfectly illustrates how important it is for players to be told what they did wrong. When you force players to guess the offense they could end up trying to correct behaviour that was perfectly fine, and not the behaviour that actually provoked the report. It's not always obvious what you did wrong, especially if the GM acts upon the ticket several days after the incident occurred.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanadra
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03-10-2021, 01:04 AMIscahOffensive language isn't just profanity. Someone can be offended by the content of a statement, whether or not the words would be considered rude in isolation.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
Rightly or wrongly, there still may have been something you said that has been interpreted under that rule. -
03-10-2021, 01:16 AMThemarvin
The Definition of ERP is not what games think it is though, look below.
Enterprise resource planning (ERP) is defined as the ability to deliver an integrated suite of business applications. ERP tools share a common process and data model, covering broad and deep operational end-to-end processes, such as those found in finance, HR, distribution, manufacturing, service and the supply chain.
It should be clear as in how things will and can conflict, also if partyfinder is meant as a tool to find people to do content with, within the frames of what partyfinder is for... pvp, pve and that entire field, If it end getting flooded to much with any of that none related stuff, it will be considered as spam no matter how you look upon it, and that is in conflict with the terms of use. -
03-10-2021, 01:19 AMBsrking5Exactly. Something as simple as "please face the boss away from the party" is enough to get a strike under 3.3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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03-10-2021, 01:33 AMLianaThorneThis here, I've heard plenty of horror stories of people saying innocent stuff but getting mass reported by people who were offended anyway and GMs taking action against it. It really just depends on who's listening in on your convos and if they choose to feel that it's offensive. The GMs aren't going to tell the person "No sorry, you don't have a right to be offended", even in situations where the issue isn't even that deep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
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03-10-2021, 01:54 AMEtherRose
I'll post this here from the ToS. It's up to you whether you cry about it or not.
3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players.
Meaning you can be reported just for about anything whether you like it or not. If people don't like you RP'ing and posting RP venues in the PF, you can be reported for it. So if i don't like you RP'ing and it's ruining my game experience, I'll report you. And by the vague ToS, you can be banned.
On a side note, no, I don't report anyone unless they deserve to be. Above is just a figure of speech. -
03-10-2021, 01:59 AMNothv13IE, don't do anything, don't say anything, just AFK in your apartment. Only sure way to never be reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
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03-10-2021, 02:02 AMJijifliBut then you aren't playing with me which is ruining my game experience because I'm lonely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothv13
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03-10-2021, 02:04 AMLianaThornePart of the reason why I think it's the people campaigning against 18+ RP venues if they can use a section of the ToS to back up their claims. They can say it's disruptive to their night and what's being said is offensive to them and GMs kind of have their hands tied in the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
Only way it'll change is if the ToS gets certain sections rewritten to block off loopholes like this. -
03-10-2021, 02:05 AMNothv13Can't report what you don't know exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jijifli
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03-10-2021, 02:09 AMKeramory
Although a clear statement would be nice, I think it's pretty clear by now if you put ERP or RP18+, or engage in it, you're at risk of a warning. They're clearly actively going after it or at the very least if anyone reports it for any reason they're going to look to sweep it up before it becomes an issue.
If you're big into the stuff, my sympathies. But I would strongly suggest to stop dancing around what's becoming a pretty clear line in the sand so you don't get banned. -
03-10-2021, 02:23 AMEtherRoseIt's because of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keramory
3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. *The Game is for players aged 13 and older.* You agree to behave accordingly.
Advertising 18+ anything is a no go in a 13+ game. -
03-10-2021, 02:26 AMMilkieTeaThe 18+ thing might be the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw
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03-10-2021, 02:37 AMKeramoryI'm aware, it makes complete sense to me and others like yourself. However to the RP'ers sort of defense, the GM's are being indirect about the whole PF issue because they're trying to avoid drama. I'm all for removing it out of our Party Finders but they should simply put out a statement that states clearly to knock it off. Then these sort of posts can go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
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03-10-2021, 02:41 AMMPKExactly! I don't understand why that's so hard to understand!Quote:
Originally Posted by EtherRose
It's not possible to prove the person on the other end is an adult so ERPing should be a complete no. Apparently that's too hard to understand. -
03-10-2021, 02:59 AMGeminiReedThat site carrd.co is not a SE venue so ineligible as evidence or so SE claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by MilkieTea
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03-10-2021, 03:07 AMValkyrie_LennethI think there is a misunderstanding here. If the person themself has a thing linked, it is admissible. If someone else provides 3rd party evidence it is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiReed
This is why public figures have been banned while streaming. They are known entities who are intrinsically linked to their characters.
You also cannot report on behalf of others, in a similar vein. -
03-10-2021, 03:10 AMiVolkeYou're comparing a government entity to a private corporation?Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenEbonclaw