No one said it was an us vs them situation. It's an us vs SE situation. SE time and time again keep adding more garbage like bozja that even the casual players dont enjoy doing. I mean have you see the amount of threads criticizing that garbage? They had the audacity to get people to do old alliance quests to get a relic and call it content. That's like a slap to players faces!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
Back in SB, at least we got new maps for mindless grinding! Now we just have the mindless grinding!
Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?
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02-07-2021, 04:41 AMMPK
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02-07-2021, 04:43 AMKatie_KittyAs far as I can see its the casual players creating the division, nobody else. Apparently it greatly offends you all that people dare to be upset that something they were looking forward to is gone now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-07-2021, 04:45 AMSteviejdThis thread proves otherwise. It's both...including you it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
I have already said I understand people being upset but it seems like for whatever reason you decided not to read that? -
02-07-2021, 04:48 AMMPKThis! It seems like people are choosing to ignore the fact that it's been almost 2 years since the last ultimate! Many of spent weeks to farm for BiS to attempt the next ultimate! Now the gear we have is completely useless and it's all because of SE's decision to add this garbage 48 man savage that's walled behind casual content!Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty
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02-07-2021, 05:03 AMXeronia
To my understanding blame Covid and the fact despite all stated in this thread it is still a pretty big issue in the world, Did Japan not just call a state of emergency over it recently? Sure they probably were on track when they has stated everything was up to 100% but based on the fact Japan has entered another state of emergency recently clearly Covid still may impact it.
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02-07-2021, 05:03 AMPayotz
Casualbringers lmao
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02-07-2021, 05:04 AMAwha
It sucks, but it makes sense the world was / is currently burning and rather they release a properly play tested encounter.
I am annoyed since I did come back just for ultimate but it is to be expected. On the brightside been having fun in WoW so will most likely let my sub end and come back for 6.0. -
02-07-2021, 05:10 AMKayRadley
And sure as the sun rises and sets, MPK is back with another thread griping about Bozja, because they've nothing better to do.
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02-07-2021, 05:11 AMSteviejdAh, another person trying to usual the word casual in a negative way...Quote:
Originally Posted by Payotz
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02-07-2021, 05:23 AMAwhaWait casual is not a slur? You sure? I do not believe you! My whole world is crumbling before me! AHHHH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-07-2021, 05:27 AMReap00You still won't get your Ultimate kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awha
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02-07-2021, 05:32 AMPayotzYeah, I'm making fun of it. That's the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
In all seriousness though, I've been blaming a lot of what's wrong with Shadowbringers on casuals ever since launch.
Job changes(dumbing down of Ranged Physical and removal of its identity[Literally just a 1% damage buff lul], Healer changes, Tank changes and removal of TK Monk),
Crafter changes (No more cross class skills, removal of skills and removal of Whisper Rotation),
Dumbed down EX fights with no dps checks (Innocence, Emerald Weapon EX, and even Titania).
Among many other things. Ultimate being cut is just another thing added onto that pile. -
02-07-2021, 05:37 AMEuphares
This community for this game will always be strange to me.
I feel like Squeenix will just ride the "covid btw" reason for years and folks will just continue to accept it.
After so much time there really is no excuse for a billion-dollar company to still be so inefficient at working, other game companies JP based or otherwise aren't having these issues so its really not acceptable by this point.
The sub price has been the same for the entire pandemic; and I don't believe that unsubbing is a viable solution considering that even with all the money they receive, half-assed content is still being pushed out. I worry to think what would happen with less money to work with. I think its about time that people start holding the devs accountable the way communities in other games do.
The reality is that we've gotten less content that's either worse or on par with previous content quality-wise so I struggle to find how exactly players benefit here. I fear this ultimate will just be added to list of things SE has failed to deliver on and be forever stuck in dev limbo. -
02-07-2021, 05:45 AMAziraSyuren
This is the worst end-of-expansion blunder (maybe blunder period) since the Coven weapons and the worst part is that they couldn't do much of anything about it once COVID hit.
Their biggest mistakes were not being clear about their struggles with getting it out on time and not releasing an ultimate in 5.3 instead. Game design really isn't as simple as resource allocation, so I can understand why they couldn't delay anything else just to get this out.
That being said, I actually think Bozja is the best casual BS "filler" content this game has ever had so at least there's something to do. -
02-07-2021, 05:52 AMMahoukenshiSince you seem to be deeply troubled if you cannot put the blame on casuals: I'm a casual and for all the unpleasantries I've indirectly caused, I say the following with pride and self-consciousness: You are welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payotz
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02-07-2021, 06:05 AMListrella
get over yourself, only about 1% of players do ultimate, bozja appeals to more people, that takes priority.
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02-07-2021, 06:05 AMAwhaI will get it around 6.1, still in a better boat then some other features in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
For everyone it was a joke though. Just in case it was missed. -
02-07-2021, 07:19 AMCaedemSanguis
Final Fantasy XIV = designed for casual player
HC players just need to sub 1 month each time a raid tier is released (4 weeks, double alt, its enough to get stuffed) and if an ultimate is announced you resub
That's it, I wouldn't be surprise if there is only one ultimate next expansion, after all, some people (I don't know how) find a brain dead grinding more fun than raids -
02-07-2021, 07:24 AMSteviejdAt the same time I don't know how someone finds attempting to kill the same boss for weeks and all the drama that comes with 'hardcore' raiding fun. Different strokes for different folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis
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02-07-2021, 07:35 AMCaedemSanguisI thought there was an ultimate for 5.5, otherwise I'll just kill E12s and then unsub for 13 monthsQuote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-07-2021, 07:42 AMSteviejdCool, that's up to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaedemSanguis
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02-07-2021, 07:49 AMAbsurdityI'd actually consider that rather cool. You make it sound easy but clearing uCoB with 8 tanks requires some insane coordination and optimization, it's not something that the average player, even if they're good enough to do savage and ultimate, could achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Themarvin
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02-07-2021, 07:56 AMForteNightshadeNot really. A primarily complaint frequently levied at FFXIV is the lack of content longevity. Ultimate gave relevance to Savage since now all that gear is worthless outside of logs on a certain site. Which speaks volumes. A third party website is literally the only thing keeping FFXIV's endgame afloat for the next 6-7 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
Right? People like to just look at the end result without any context. Tankcob had several top tier world prog raids, including Momo Sama and Rin Karigani. These are players who parse 99-100 on practically everything. It isn't something just anyone is going to easily accomplish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdity
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02-07-2021, 08:02 AMValkyrie_LennethI'd disagree on logs keeping every endgame player engaged for the next 7 months. Maybe the hardcore world first week 1 players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
Most of the raid scene is still likely progging e12s. I know my group is.
Don't conflate hardcore raiders to the entire scene. -
02-07-2021, 08:07 AMSturmChurroA lot of us have been saying this for a long time. Even before Covid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin96
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02-07-2021, 08:13 AMHyoMinParkI think the implication is that the gear is basically worthless/doesn’t serve a point now since there’s no Ultimate to require it. No other content but Ultimate demands BiS gear. Not even Savage demands it. Raiders that care about logs get better gear for better logs—it serves the purpose to give them those better logs. Hence Forte’s comment. But in terms of progressing through other content? Savage gear only benefits Ultimate progression. Otherwise, it’s not needed at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
Aside from me wanting to take a personal break from the game after clearing Eden’s Verse, I also didn’t want to go beyond clearing it for gear since there was no Ultimate for me to make use out of the gear. A lot of raiders did the same thing; some cleared and quit, and then others got some nice logs and then quit the tier. But the lack of Ultimate kind of did negatively impact some that value that kind of content—and it did make them kind of quit the tier since there wasn’t much point beyond shiny oranges/pinks to farm for gear. (I personally also did not really like the tier itself—mostly the fights didn’t really appeal to me, though I thought E8S was fun on a healer.)
Eh. My group is very midcore/bordering on very casual. And we’ve had the tier cleared for a few weeks now. Now we mostly do weeklies to gear up alt jobs, because everything is basically freeroll. For reference, we didn’t clear early. I think we cleared like Week 5 or 6. So definitely not at any sort of hardcore pace. We raid 12 hours a week—the only week where we did more was Week 1, which was 30 hours.Quote:
Most of the raid scene is still likely progging e12s. I know my group is.
Don't conflate hardcore raiders to the entire scene.
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02-07-2021, 08:14 AMSteviejdPeople that blow through content in a week are never going to be satisfied so the hardcore crowd will always have droughts unless the devs start making savage and ultimate ridiculously difficult again to the point of being static breakers. If you want that kind of thing, WoW is over there ----> and even then people are complaining there is nothing to do in WoW now either and they just had an expac.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
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02-07-2021, 08:16 AMValkyrie_LennethWe raid 7 and a half. Ish. 2.5 hours 3 nights a week. And some weeks we miss a day.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
There are a lot more groups like mine than hardcore groups, or even groups like yours. -
02-07-2021, 08:20 AMHyoMinParkHow casual or un-casual a group is, is ultimately irrelevant to the point Forte was making. Their point was that Savage gear is useless without Ultimate. There is no need to have it. Ultimate was the only thing that gave it an actual purpose, since it’s overkill for everything else in the game but Ultimate. The benefit to getting Savage gear now is basically chasing leaderboards. Because you can’t put it to use for much else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
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02-07-2021, 08:21 AMForteNightshadeHyoMin more or less summarized my point. Without Ultimate, BiS serves no purpose outside of logs. And that site plays a pretty significant factor in what keeps people interested. Hence my statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
This has nothing to do with world first, especially as those players will pretty much parse on their way to BiS. Logs essentially provides a reason beyond the initial clear to keep killing them same bosses each week. That isn't to say every group will value them equally, or even at all. However, there is no denying that website keeps Savage alive on a long term basis. And without Ultimate, it's literally the only thing Savage has for relevancy. -
02-07-2021, 08:24 AMSteviejdThen what are Ultimate weapons for?Quote:
Originally Posted by HyoMinPark
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02-07-2021, 08:29 AMHyoMinParkIgnoring the irrelevant WoW inserts (What is this? Godwin’s Law except with WoW? Why is this argument always made?), most statics are not “blowing through” Savage or Ultimate in a week. Even Week 1 groups take longer than that to actually gear up and achieve the BiS needed for ultimate, and not all Week 1 Savage groups can even clear an Ultimate in a week. This is very little to do with the content drought, and more to do with the raiders once again losing their content. Despite the game being majorly casual, raiders are still a group that get shafted more often than we get any kind of bone thrown our way (and when we do get that rare bone, people complain from now until Sunday about how the game is “constantly catering to the raiders” and “shafting casuals”). Even our own content (Savage) is continuously made easier to cater to more players. Ultimate was our challenge we wanted back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
Literally no one is asking for static breakers. We were merely expressing our disappointment at losing a piece of content a lot of us were looking forward to. And now we will have been waiting over 2 years for another one. I also highly doubt that 6.0 will be be adding 3 Ultimates, simply because the one that was planned for 5.51 will have to be adjusted and likely retuned for Level 90 and 6.0 job changes (I doubt they’d release it as level 80). There is a very small team that can actually design an Ultimate fight, and it will likely still take time to design a new one—so I’m speculating the 6.0 Ultimates will be 6.11 and 6.51. I don’t think they will add one in 6.31. So we do effectively lose one.
Ultimate weapons have always been bragging rights—Ultimate raiders have never marketed them as anything more than that. They can fit into an Ultimate BiS, but they are only one materia meld better than the corresponding tier’s Savage weapon. Same stats on the weapon, you just get one more slot. Minuscule in the grand scheme of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-07-2021, 08:30 AMForteNightshadeExcept Ultimate didn't just appeal to the World First caliber players "blowing through it in a week." UCoB and UwU remain the only piece of content that have remained relevant several years after their initial release. No other content can boast such a claim. Furthermore, while yes, hardcore players will inevitably run out of things to do. That neither means they should be deprived of content nor that they aren't satisfied. Plenty were quite content with Ultimate... until it went from supposedly three, to two and now to one. Because we all know they won't be releasing three in Endwalker.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
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02-07-2021, 08:42 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
That just comes down to a difference in view then. I don't view bis as a means to an end. I don't see it only as a stepping stone for ultimate. It's simply a goal for personal reasons. Though, this may also have something to do with when I started raiding in this game.
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02-07-2021, 08:42 AMSteviejdUltimate still only caters towards a very small minority of players. I even see some people here complaining about no Ulitmate and they haven't even done the first one according to fflogs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForteNightshade
Also hardcore players have a 48-man raid to complete right now if they haven't already.
It's also not a case of being deprived content, it is just a fact that the content has been delayed. It's an expansion year unfortunately and the majority will get the priority. -
02-07-2021, 08:51 AMlulunami
Bozja was not cut because it was likely easier to create compared to Ultimate raids. Also, even though Bozja is disliked, it is content more players can enjoy. It takes a lot more time to create fair and difficult designed game content. If they rush design and testing, we will get Alexander 4 Savage (Manipulator) once again, which is probably not what the raiders want.
The bus factor on the designers required to create Ultimate raids is likely very low. You cannot really transition many employees into this difficult project because the knowledge level and expertise is just not readily available. -
02-07-2021, 09:04 AMGoji1639
Cutting something they've already put so much into would be pointless. Just get rid of the mettle punishment, improve the rewards and make it into the casual playground it was supposed to be. SE messed up by listening to the people who say they want challenging/punishing content. Those people aren't just the minority, most of them are flat out lying to try to "impress" people on the forums.
Hopefully the fact that the "challenging" content died immediately, while the FATES and CE's had consistent participation, opened their eyes. Challenge and punishment is not what this community wants, no matter how much the opposite is said on the forums. -
02-07-2021, 09:07 AMShinklet
To hear a small fraction of the playerbase so mad, you would've thought it was the PvPers again!
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02-07-2021, 09:10 AMHyperiusUltima
In case people have forgotten there's a literal pandemic called COVID-19 that popped up that grinded development to a halt for 2-3 months. They stated this in the Announcement Segment if you were there at the start of the stream.
Of course development is going to be behind for a while longer - especially when they're tweaking the numbers for universal downscaling. In general the pandemic rocked the gaming industry for a while because they needed to find a way to safely work using social distancing and masks. I believe in a Live Letter Yoshida mentioned how they had to do things remotely from their homes with a more secure network to prevent people accidentally logging into a test server who have subbed to FFXIV.
If anything, be patient since they're playing catch-up(while not inducing crunch) and trying to apply things as according to their template that they mentioned back in Stormblood with how they release patches. -
02-07-2021, 09:11 AMForteNightshadeTo be fair, they could be posting on an alt character or account. I am.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejd
Content which is significantly harder to organize, has no incentive beyond the initial clear and won't last until this expansion's conclusions for that precise reason. And no, this Ultimate is delayed. However, we're losing another since two were originally expected for Endwalker. Unless they release three Ultimates, we're losing content.