Lets Talk Dark Knight

the only problem with Gla is that its a Tank job so unless Drk is gonna be a tank in this game, Drk should technically branch off of Mrd. But if drk is a tank i would hope its the DD Tank.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

I would love to see Yoshi-P draw up a DRK design even if I had to wait months for it to release. I seen the DRG image way before 1.21 and just knew that would be my DRK in action one day.

On another note, if DRK does come from GLA, will it be a Tank?

My favorite role is Tanking and my favorite job is usually a DD, so it would be like killing two birds with one stone. Either way I really want a Demon race Dark Knight.

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1. DRK is the complete opposite of PLD.
2. It is illogical to make DRK a tank.
3. DRK is better off coming off of Botanist long before it comes from GLA... what a horrible idea.

I swear I feel like I'm paying to play a game the trolls me every moment of my playtime. Especially the forums.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

the only problem with Gla is that its a Tank job so unless Drk is gonna be a tank in this game, Drk should technically branch off of Mrd. But if drk is a tank i would hope its the DD Tank.

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Yea it better be a more offensive tank, I agree. DRK should never hit for such low numbers like a PLD. It could be another offensive Tank though(just more magic involved unlike WAR). We already have one Offensive Tank so it's not entirely impossible.

If they branch it from GLA(as stated as a possibility by Yoshi-P) it would have to be a Tank. Unless they have most of the GLA traits change after you equip the job stone.

i know i be satisfied if we could even see a 10 second pencil drawing that yoshi-p while going to the bathroom on what drk COULD look like.

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

i know i be satisfied if we could even see a 10 second pencil drawing that yoshi-p while going to the bathroom on what drk COULD look like.

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Yoshi-P is not an artist?

He's the lead designer/producer.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

Yoshi-P is not an artist?

He's the lead designer/producer.

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ya i kmow just a little humor

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Originally Posted by illriginalized

1. DRK is the complete opposite of PLD.
2. It is illogical to make DRK a tank.
3. DRK is better off coming off of Botanist long before it comes from GLA... what a horrible idea.

I swear I feel like I'm paying to play a game the trolls me every moment of my playtime. Especially the forums.

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most othe games Dark Knight is the DD tank. Everquest, Age of Conan, and Wow, and some korean ones that have whatever variation of Drk its a tank. Wars are the Hp Tanks, Pld are the Def tanks, Drk are DD tanks

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

some korean ones that have whatever variation of Drk its a tank

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Yup. Dark Avenger, AKA the tank that out-performed every other tank class in Lineage II by a mile between better defensive cooldowns, mitigation buffs like Majesty on top of better DPS through their dark panther summon.

A dark knight archetype tanking is not exactly outlandish. Not to mention it never made sense to see a guy in all that armor take hits like a little girl.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/a...rblkpldxs7.gif


This is what if Drk can look like as the DD tank it would look like the Ark Angel Elvaan from 11. just add some spikes, add some red in there and make a head that doesnt show its face and i will be happy!

oh good that you remind us Scythe is already reserved for BLM.

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/i215.photobucket....oid_ark_tt.jpg

I just hope they make a new class for dark to be tied to, and not any of the classes we have atm.

Also the DRG armor is almost a direct copy of FF IV DS version of kains armor in CG CS.

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Originally Posted by illriginalized

1. DRK is the complete opposite of PLD.
2. It is illogical to make DRK a tank.
3. DRK is better off coming off of Botanist long before it comes from GLA... what a horrible idea.

I swear I feel like I'm paying to play a game the trolls me every moment of my playtime. Especially the forums.

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On #3, why would it be a bad idea to branch off from GLA? In all fairness to GLA, the only reason it doesn't do that great of damage is only because it gets access to only 1 handed swords/daggers. Simply giving them a 2-handed sword and increase in stats when going to Dark Knight, I don't see how it is a horrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

On #3, why would it be a bad idea to branch off from GLA? In all fairness to GLA, the only reason it doesn't do that great of damage is only because it gets access to only 1 handed swords/daggers. Simply giving them a 2-handed sword and increase in stats when going to Dark Knight, I don't see how it is a horrible idea.

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At the moment... Classes and jobs are tied inherently to a weapon type. There's a number of reasons for this (such as issues unique animations), so unless they totally revamp the system, it's actually quite impossible for them to make GLA branch into PLD and a great sword wielding DRK. Not to mention all of GLA's support abilities are focused around shield use and defense.

Honestly the could add the Knight class. That can use Great sword, or some 1 handers, just like cnj and thm can interchange 1 and 2 handers, and somthing interesting i just thought about. And if its based off the Knight from Final Fantasy tactics that could break stuff with abilities,They COULD give them ws abilities the effect to break all the areas like using concussive blow aims for mobs face. Not like break them all at one but they can target any area with their skill or if they pick it for Drk its 15 min could break all areas at once. Cause its a god damn gs how is it not lopping of body parts lol.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

At the moment... Classes and jobs are tied inherently to a weapon type. There's a number of reasons for this (such as issues unique animations), so unless they totally revamp the system, it's actually quite impossible for them to make GLA branch into PLD and a great sword wielding DRK. Not to mention all of GLA's support abilities are focused around shield use and defense.

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Ya that would be true. but like we said before if they make Drk a DD Tank job then Gla wouldnt be bad.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

At the moment... Classes and jobs are tied inherently to a weapon type. There's a number of reasons for this (such as issues unique animations), so unless they totally revamp the system, it's actually quite impossible for them to make GLA branch into PLD and a great sword wielding DRK. Not to mention all of GLA's support abilities are focused around shield use and defense.

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Well 2.0 itself is a revamp, no? For all we know they could make classes compatible with more weapons and open to change animations around. Simply saying, it isn't impossible, and even developers themselves have expressed interest in having Dark Knight an alternative GLA job. I don't think they would of brought that up if it couldn't happen.

If DRK would grow off of any current class, it should be MRD, not GLD.

The advent of AF weapons will have to incorporate a system by which when a Job-only weapon is equipped, it will also equip the Soul simultaneously (hence the recent change to make equipping job souls a server-side function).

This will allow new Jobs to have weapons separate from their root classes.

So yes, you could have MRD > DRK (Greatsword)

other possibilities:

GLD > Red Mage (Rapier)
LNC > Samurai (Great Katana)
PGL > Dancer (Fans)
ARC > Ranger (Crossbow)
CNJ > Geomancer (Bell)
THM > Oracle (Cane)

I've said this many times, and I'll repeat it here: We only need a ~5 more classes to have every base style of play covered (see my sig). After that, all growth and expansion should be job-focused.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

If DRK would grow off of any current class, it should be MRD, not GLD.

The advent of AF weapons will have to incorporate a system by which when a Job-only weapon is equipped, it will also equip the Soul simultaneously (hence the recent change to make equipping job souls a server-side function).

This will allow new Jobs to have weapons separate from their root classes.

So yes, you could have MRD > DRK (Greatsword)

other possibilities:

GLD > Red Mage (Rapier)
LNC > Samurai (Great Katana)
PGL > Dancer (Fans)
ARC > Ranger (Crossbow)
CNJ > Geomancer (Bell)
THM > Oracle (Cane)

I've said this many times, and I'll repeat it here: We only need a ~5 more classes to have every base style of play covered (see my sig). After that, all growth and expansion should be job-focused.

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Problem is that DRK would be too much like WAR. DRK needs to be a unique DPS in it's own way. Any common concepts it can use are already used by Warrior and Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Problem is that DRK would be too much like WAR. DRK needs to be a unique DPS in it's own way. Any common concepts it can use are already used by Warrior and Dragoon.

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Not necessarily...

WAR is a blunt instrument that smashes things with reckless abandon and survives due to High HP. (I think WAR needs to lose some Accuracy while it's tanking, but that's another topic)

On the other hand, DRK is a very dangerous job to both themselves and their enemies. They must delicately balance sacrificial abilities, draining and absorption spells, damage output, enmity, and a lower HP pool, in order to maximize DPS and still survive.

DRK job should gain skills that maximize damage and add effects as their own HP declines. They should have lower Defense, Atk Power, Accuracy, HP and MP than other jobs, but this is compensated by their absorption spells which can put them at the top of the list when used.

What class gets what depends on how Yoshi and is DEV team see them. If they want to make Dark Knight more tankish this round, that their call.

We have a bard archer and they already mentioned thief might come off archer as well....

We should keep our minds open.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Not necessarily...

WAR is a blunt instrument that smashes things with reckless abandon and survives due to High HP. (I think WAR needs to lose some Accuracy while it's tanking, but that's another topic)

On the other hand, DRK is a very dangerous job to both themselves and their enemies. They must delicately balance sacrificial abilities, draining and absorption spells, damage output, enmity, and a lower HP pool, in order to maximize DPS and still survive.

DRK job should gain skills that maximize damage and add effects as their own HP declines. They should have lower Defense, Atk Power, Accuracy, HP and MP than other jobs, but this is compensated by their absorption spells which can put them at the top of the list when used.

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Like someone said, DRK can go in any direction and the mind set is too much like FFXI. If we went through the FFXI route, we would basically have a job that has what WAR and DRG already have.

There are plenty of reasons DRK can work on GLA or MRD, but in my opinion, I think it would work better on GLA. Not just mechanics sake, but lore sake also. DRK opposing PLD has a ton of potential and I think SE should take advantage of that.

But I think I can better form an opinion on how DRK could adapt once 2.0 hits.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Well 2.0 itself is a revamp, no? For all we know they could make classes compatible with more weapons and open to change animations around. Simply saying, it isn't impossible, and even developers themselves have expressed interest in having Dark Knight an alternative GLA job. I don't think they would of brought that up if it couldn't happen.

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I did include a caveat in my post, specifying that it would be possible, but the job system would have to undergo an absolutely massive revamp. Which seems silly considering they just made a huge revamp. But perhaps it was simply a segue revamp all along. We'll have to wait and see.

Unless they totally rework base actions, it makes more sense to base DRK off of MRD.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

I did include a caveat in my post, specifying that it would be possible, but the job system would have to undergo an absolutely massive revamp. Which seems silly considering they just made a huge revamp. But perhaps it was simply a segue revamp all along. We'll have to wait and see.

Unless they totally rework base actions, it makes more sense to base DRK off of MRD.

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I agree that GLA mechanics just don't fit DRK. GLA is your basic "sword and board" class, while MRD is the offensive powerhouse. Not saying DRK can't work for GLA, but you would have to completely change GLA to transition into something like DRK. And that is something I just don't really see happening (although it good). To clarify my point, lore-wise it makes more sense for DRK to come off of GLA, but mechanically DRK is a much better fit for MRD as you said.

Then again, DRK could be a drain tank rather than a heal-tank. Instead of relying on cures, maybe the DRK relies on hp drains, mp drains, etc. Basically it could be a tank with different ways of healing and reducing dmg. I can imagine something that sacrifices party members' hp to boost the DRK's health or def...or even siphons hp/mp from party members or monsters for its own benefit. It'd be quite interesting.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Then again, DRK could be a drain tank rather than a heal-tank. Instead of relying on cures, maybe the DRK relies on hp drains, mp drains, etc. Basically it could be a tank with different ways of healing and reducing dmg. I can imagine something that sacrifices party members' hp to boost the DRK's health or def...or even siphons hp/mp from party members or monsters for its own benefit. It'd be quite interesting.

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I would much prefer this, something new and different take on Dark Knight. Every time I hear someone say "this job doesn't fit that class" I think of the bard and archer. People were so against bard and archer at first.

DRK as a drain-tank is a novel idea.. but the universal tradition of Dark Knight in the FF games has been one of a DD that sacrifices life for more damage via it's trademark ability "Soul Eater", with a secondary theme of 'draining'. This blood-for-power approach is the foundation of the FF Dark Knight.

It's not to say that a DRK tank couldn't be done, but DD is the tradition here.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

DRK as a drain-tank is a novel idea.. but the universal tradition of Dark Knight in the FF games has been one of a DD that sacrifices life for more damage via it's trademark ability "Soul Eater", with a secondary theme of 'draining'. This blood-for-power approach is the foundation of the FF Dark Knight.

It's not to say that a DRK tank couldn't be done, but DD is the tradition here.

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This. I much rather play as a DRK DPS than tank, leave that to PLD and WAR. I think enfeebling effects and drain attacks would work well.

I have everything at 50, so honestly, as long as I have a DRK and a greatsword, I don't care where it comes from.

Well Shadow Knight was the Drain DD Tank in everquest so it would bring back a nice feel i use to have.

Simple give them a buff, like berserk for warriors, to increase damage and lower defense.

With a base of GLA the job could go like....

1)Dark Pack
-Greatly increase base weapon damage
-Negative side effect like constant damage over time on user or greatly increased damage taken
-Toggle buff like berserk and rampage

2) Infernal Strike
-WS Decreases enmity when Dark Pack is up
-Chances in place a DoT on the enemy that heals you for damage dealt by DoT

3)Dark Wave
- Spell that does AoE umbral damage at the cost of life

4) Eye for an Eye
-WS damage increased on lower life of Dark Knight

5)Unholy Sacrifice (15 min)
- Takes Dark Knight to 1 HP. Deal Massive AoE Damage.

If tanking, keep Dark Pack off. When doing damage turn dark pack on and go to town.
I picked two WS since the gla lacks spam-able damaging WS, like other damage classes.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Simple give them a buff, like berserk for warriors, to increase damage and lower defense.

With a base of GLA the job could go like....

1)Dark Pack
-Greatly increase base weapon damage
-Negative side effect like constant damage over time on user or greatly increased damage taken
-Toggle buff like berserk and rampage

2) Infernal Strike
-WS Decreases enmity when Dark Pack is up
-Chances in place a DoT on the enemy that heals you for damage dealt by DoT

3)Dark Wave
- Spell that does AoE umbral damage at the cost of life

4) Eye for an Eye
-WS damage increased on lower life of Dark Knight

5)Unholy Sacrifice (15 min)
- Takes Dark Knight to 1 HP. Deal Massive AoE Damage.

If tanking, keep Dark Pack off. When doing damage turn dark pack on and go to town.
I picked two WS since the gla lacks spam-able damaging WS, like other damage classes.

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Think concern with having GLA as the class is that alot of abilities are intentional hate generated abilities that are useless for DRK if they are DPS.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Simple give them a buff, like berserk for warriors, to increase damage and lower defense.

With a base of GLA the job could go like....

1)Dark Pack
-Greatly increase base weapon damage
-Negative side effect like constant damage over time on user or greatly increased damage taken
-Toggle buff like berserk and rampage

2) Infernal Strike
-WS Decreases enmity when Dark Pack is up
-Chances in place a DoT on the enemy that heals you for damage dealt by DoT

3)Dark Wave
- Spell that does AoE umbral damage at the cost of life

4) Eye for an Eye
-WS damage increased on lower life of Dark Knight

5)Unholy Sacrifice (15 min)
- Takes Dark Knight to 1 HP. Deal Massive AoE Damage.

If tanking, keep Dark Pack off. When doing damage turn dark pack on and go to town.
I picked two WS since the gla lacks spam-able damaging WS, like other damage classes.

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oooooo i like that actually be kinda neat. but just call it Unholy. and let it do awesome dmg unlike holy.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Think concern with having GLA as the class is that alot of abilities are intentional hate generated abilities that are useless for DRK if they are DPS.

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Idea, when Dark Pack is up, enmity generators become enmity reducers... but that could be overpwoered

Ok then lets ask this. What do you people want/ Dark Knight to be a strictly DD or a DD Tank? i personally could go either way.

Just sayin'...if you're gonna do Dark Knight go the full distance!

http://geektyrant.com/storage/2011-p...=1326134829667

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

Ok then lets ask this. What do you people want/ Dark Knight to be a strictly DD or a DD Tank? i personally could go either way.

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Honestly, I like options.

ok then god damn SE you better give Drk a god damn cape!!!!!

DPS, only way I can look at DRK.

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Originally Posted by Klive

Honestly, I like options.

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This is counter to the job system's design. By intent the point is specialization. Your option is to level Paladin or Warrior if you want to tank.

I could see legit hybrid classes like Red Mage and Blue Mage being made into hybrids, but having Dark Knight as a hybrid just doesn't make sense...

I'd be satisfied with Dark Knight being a slightly more durable DPS than DRG, with some drain support style abilities to save them if they get hate, or are suddenly off tanking.

See my original suggestion. A great sword wielding DPS with some debilitating abilities, and sacrifice safety to deal more damage risk-reward dynamic. If you pull threat, switch to draining attacks and skip risky moves until the tank takes hate back.

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Originally Posted by Ramsey

This is counter to the job system's design. By intent the point is specialization. Your option is to level Paladin or Warrior if you want to tank.

I could see legit hybrid classes like Red Mage and Blue Mage being made into hybrids, but having Dark Knight as a hybrid just doesn't make sense...

I'd be satisfied with Dark Knight being a slightly more durable DPS than DRG, with some drain support style abilities to save them if they get hate, or are suddenly off tanking.

See my original suggestion. A great sword wielding DPS with some debilitating abilities, and sacrifice safety to deal more damage risk-reward dynamic. If you pull threat, switch to draining attacks and skip risky moves until the tank takes hate back.

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you do realize Drk is a hybrid job. its a warrior blm type while pld is a warrior whm

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Originally Posted by KoujiGeki

you do realize Drk is a hybrid job. its a warrior blm type while pld is a warrior whm

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Dark Knight is hybrid in flavor, but not hybrid mechanically.

My real dream is that theyd add a whole 'nother class for two handed swords or scythes, then have drk spring from that. Rather than come from gla, simply because so many skills are aimed to tanking on gla and would probably go wasted on drk, unless they changed what drk is in this rendition. But like I said, I'd prefer a brand new class at some point in the future.