The FFXIV Cash Shop is greedy

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

What fairy world you're living in? We have gold sellers here, it exists because people use it. The people who earning gold the way they suppose — bying subs for that gold, and filthy casuals who dont want to grind — help them to get that sub with them bying gold from blizz, everyone is happy, even the company that can buy new car for Bobby Kotick.

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Obviously a world where they arent using the same fairy dust on me that they are using on you. A third party gold seller is scum, yes, but when the company itself does it, it's not any better.

They saw a way to personally monopolize on what was supposed to be a no no in the mmo world but yet, were Blizzard and were doing it ourselves now...so, its okey dokey now...um, no.

That is the very definition of greed. That is the type of things Kotick does. It's about the shareholders not the gamers.

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Originally Posted by DBriggs304

Or, you could just not buy gold at all and earn it the way you're supposed which negates the issue entirely. And yet, they are still making more money with that model regardless.

And yes, "WoW bad" for that scheme. Now that IS a slimy move. One of many they have done to screw over their playerbase. You need only look to what has been going on at Blizzard the last year and a half to see that they are all about the money. Period.

In that respect, yes, "ff xiv good" cause I dont get the same money hungry and nefarious vibes to purposely get their customers here.

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Gold selling is still going on in WoW, just needs to be "competitive" with the token price. And, the token model also provides more ways for "gold-seller" to offer a variety of services cross Blizzard games. That is why I'm no longer buying this marketing spin of "reducing RMT" any more. However, this $5 per transaction might have been a "smart" business move for Blizzard at the time, like free money for minimum effort. I think it caused long-term detrimental effects on the game as a whole, and shaped how that game it is today.

Nevertheless, this is not the right place to discuss how the other game did wrong. I understand people want this game to do better. My point is just that WoW is absolutely not a good example or model for the cash shop.

If history can be re-written, I wonder how many people would like to go back and change that.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

What fairy world you're living in? We have gold sellers here, it exists because people use it. The people who earning gold the way they suppose — bying subs for that gold, and filthy casuals who dont want to grind — help them to get that sub with them bying gold from blizz, everyone is happy, even the company that can buy new car for Bobby Kotick.

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Im not clear on how gold selling from Blizz operates and how that differes from the gold seller?

From what Ive understood, You buy a token for a sub (30 days I guess), and you can sell that token for Gold on the MB. So it's not adding gold to the economy but just redistributing existing gold supposedly.

But gold Farmers/sellers arent generating gold out of thin air. They get it by mechanics the game provides (farming mats, doing quests, selling items, etc). The primary difference is their actions are just creating more available gold in the economy at a faster rate than normal, which depresses the value of gold independently because the game 'prints' gold every time you sell an item to an NPC. But from a pure exchange PoV, blizz is taking IRL money to faciliate a gold transfer between players, where a gold seller is doing the same thing, except they used the in game systems to get that money.

Now gold sellers use botting, which is the obvious issue, but if the big morale for the longest time was "Do not use money to get gold cause it messes up the game" and blizzard starts acting as a middle man to facilitate that which was called immoral, then doesnt that make it all hypocritical?

The only thing that I think is a little bit scummy is that we have to pay extra for storage. Being a crafter and gatherer takes up a lot of that storage already. In my immediate inventory space, my retainers, and my chocobo saddlebag. I already have two extra retainers and they're all almost full.

WoW actually retired a bunch of things, including their transmog items. I'm not a fan of either cash shop, but creating artificial shortages of digital items I think is worse. SE does do this with preorder items, but at least it's understood from the beginning.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=289324/...u-later-bundle

The biggest problem with these cash shops is they represent aborted creativity. They could have been worked into the fabric of the world, and used as part of content. (Hint: Drops are the least creative way, but at least it's something) When purchased they just come from nowhere. IIRC In the early days of the WoW shop, when you got an item in the mail, some items would have a letter from an NPC.

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Im not clear on how gold selling from Blizz operates and how that differes from the gold seller?

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It's not that hard, instead of money go through some 3rd side, all money went back into the company, so they could use it to further develop their product.
One whale giving someone chance to play game for free, and company getting money to invest it back into WoW.
Well, if we use logic that everything you buy from shops getting back into a game, like people think Mog Station do.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The desire for wealth is there, and whether or not it's suitably "intense" is just speculative. Nobody opens a shop without a legitimate desire for wealth; greed is the cornerstone of capitalism.

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Of course people open shops for reasons other than a desire for wealth. All you need is passion. Consumers seek the best goods for the lowest possible price and the greed of retailers and producers get in the way of that.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Im not clear on how gold selling from Blizz operates and how that differes from the gold seller?

From what Ive understood, You buy a token for a sub (30 days I guess), and you can sell that token for Gold on the MB. So it's not adding gold to the economy but just redistributing existing gold supposedly.

But gold Farmers/sellers arent generating gold out of thin air. They get it by mechanics the game provides (farming mats, doing quests, selling items, etc). The primary difference is their actions are just creating more available gold in the economy at a faster rate than normal, which depresses the value of gold independently because the game 'prints' gold every time you sell an item to an NPC. But from a pure exchange PoV, blizz is taking IRL money to faciliate a gold transfer between players, where a gold seller is doing the same thing, except they used the in game systems to get that money.

Now gold sellers use botting, which is the obvious issue, but if the big morale for the longest time was "Do not use money to get gold cause it messes up the game" and blizzard starts acting as a middle man to facilitate that which was called immoral, then doesnt that make it all hypocritical?

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It's weird but this is the first time I've seen or thought about excess gold messing up the game being the reason not to buy it O.o always thought the problem was third parties making money off a Blizzard product and giving people an advantage they got illegitimately... especially when a lot of those gold farmers were stealing and selling stolen gold and stolen accounts. Blizz selling gold themselves just seemed like a smart thing to do tbh.

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Originally Posted by yukiiyuki

It's not that hard, instead of money go through some 3rd side, all money went back into the company, so they could use it to further develop their product.
One whale giving someone chance to play game for free, and company getting money to invest it back into WoW.
Well, if we use logic that everything you buy from shops getting back into a game, like people think Mog Station do.

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Has it been stated that purchases using this system are directly reinvested into WoW?

In regards to MogStation, I think its been mentioned a few times YoshiP has said this is the case. Im not 100% sure but it wouldnt surprise me if it were as mogstation is FFXIV specific, and SE has it's own online store. As for WoW's reinvestment, I know that some of the money they got from WoW overall was reinvested outside of the franchise on other projects a few years back. I am not aware if this has changed.

This being said, yes Im fine with money being reinvested. But it doesnt skip the issue of the initial reason why "Buying G is bad for the game." The core aspect of that argument was that Gold had a tangible effect on in game power level and ease. So if you had tons of gold, your chance at 'winning' was substantially better. And blizzard does have a track record of softly endorsing 'P2W' model on their own platforms, though to be fair it also blew up in their face (D3 Shop), but instead of gold, it was just the items themselves.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

It's weird but this is the first time I've seen or thought about excess gold messing up the game being the reason not to buy it O.o always thought the problem was third parties making money off a Blizzard product and giving people an advantage they got illegitimately... especially when a lot of those gold farmers were stealing and selling stolen gold and stolen accounts. Blizz selling gold themselves just seemed like a smart thing to do tbh.

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Some of the means gold farmers got money was breaking into accounts, yes, but that became harder with autheticators (a good thing). But a predominant amount of money made by gold farmers is via botting and gaming hte market board. When you can cut out the labor portion of an act, it becomes profitable to sell gold. So having bots farm mats, that people will freely buy with their gil, which they funnel into a central account that then resells that gil to other players makes sense. This is on top of quest rewards or vendor trash. FFXIV battles the vendor trash route by just making items generally worthless to vendors, where wow has (or had, its been a while for me) literal trash items that are worth 50 silver or even a few gold a pop. But gaming the market board by suppling people with cheap mats so they get the sell..well thats another story.

But gil generation is still all done via in game mechanics. Its just done at a faster rate than expected and causes inflation. WHen NPCs hand you money and they just get that money from the aether, its no different than a government printing money and handing it out.

As I said to Yuki though, Gold in WoW was a lot more closely connected to power so selling gold was a bit p2w. Frankly in FFXIV its a lot less useful in the p2w dept. Best gears are obtained via tomestones, and unless youre in the competative aspect and are buying crafted armors for prog. Gil, I suspect, is spent more on glamour and housing items than it is on power. Then again we all know Glamour is the true end game.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Of course people open shops for reasons other than a desire for wealth. All you need is passion. Consumers seek the best goods for the lowest possible price and the greed of retailers and producers get in the way of that.

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If they had no desire for wealth they wouldn't attempt to profit from the shop. Greed is always part of why they do it, even if it's not the only part.

The botters are more than just an occasional annoyance, as they hack their way through the game en masse.

They also break the game sometimes. I couldn't get into Amdapor Keep to run it as a solo instance the other day, then I remembered that this happened before when there were thousands of bots clogging up the instance because it's a really fast and lazy way to level a bunch of black mages (which is what most bots are because they are so simple to program.)

I mean, I wanted to go into it because it was a fast and lazy way to finish the light farm part of my anima dagger, but for any new players who genuinely needed that dungeon for story completion purposes, it would suck to not be able to get into the instance due to the RMT clogging it up.

I can't blame RMT for doing what they do via automated means - it's indoor work with no heavy lifting, and if I was a young adult in China or wherever and my choices were working the family farm in my home village or going to the city and playing video games all day, I'd probably choose the latter as well. But I absolutely do blame the US or EU folks who buy that gold because it's "no big deal" because they're the one that makes the market exist in the first place.

It's so darn easy to make money in this game.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Nobody opens a shop without a legitimate desire for wealth; greed is the cornerstone of capitalism.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

If they had no desire for wealth they wouldn't attempt to profit from the shop. Greed is always part of why they do it, even if it's not the only part.

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You don't have to attempt profit to open a shop. A shop can profit with or without greed. Like I said, all you need is passion to open a shop.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

FFXIV's class system allows you to level only one character and get every job. The advantage of this is easier gear management, dungeon access, and increased speed between classes and flexibility in play over xpacs. Leveling isnt extremely arduous once you got a max level class because PotD, HoH, and other levelign opportunites become available. I am not aware if WoW intentionally has similar power leveling structures in its game.

WoW does not have this. Every class is an independent character. So if you want to play a new class, you level a new character from scratch without the benefit of dungeon access, gear, and the like. This is somewhat offset by Heirloom gear if you got it. Youll level faster but youll still need to go through it. Then according you to you, they charge you more for level boosts. Wonder why....Could it be they know that if you want to play another class, youll have to roll again and go through the game again to get it up to speed, so people who want to not deal with that will pay for the jump? You have less flexibility than you do in FFXIV regarding this.

But despite this all, the conclusion is SE is Greedy and Mogstation is bad!

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You're right, WoW's characters are their own character with their own class and you have to level them all separately; Just as you have to level jobs individually in FFXIV.

While you award easier leveling to XIV through PotD and HoH (Which frankly are mind numbing ways to level), you conveniently leave out the fact that there is no hard-locked main story for WoW characters to play through, they are able to level their new characters as they wish; through questing or through dungeons; They also get their own possible 412 slots of inventory (giving one main and one alt character a combined inventory of 824) while my XIV character retains her hardlocked 560 inventory slots.

And you have an odd way of rationalizing the differences of new character from new jobs. In both WoW and XIV, you don't have access to the same dungeons as you do on your higher level, they become available as you reach the level to do them; only the difference with WoW is that there is no 30 step quest to open the dungeon, you simply have access to X dungeon when you hit X level (main character or not). You also have access to all of your mounts, and normally the heirloom mount that is accessible from level 1; And while you did mention the heirlooms briefly, you failed to mention that heirloom gear levels with you so you do not need to continually purchase new gear along with increasing all xp gains. Blizzard has also continually retuned xp required to level, and is further streamlining the leveling process for Shadowlands.

I have leveled several characters in WoW and several jobs in xiv, and from a 1:1 comparison between time spent and grind needed, WoW has a much smoother leveling experience than a secondary job in XIV.

Another thread calling SE Greedy for making "Optional" items in a Cash Store.

https://i.imgur.com/RXs3cw9.gif

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Another thread calling SE Greedy for making "Optional" items in a Cash Store.

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The issue many people end up having with the cash shop is (A) Almost none of the items are account-wide which actively discourages characters on other server or promotes repeatedly buying the same item, (B) even though it's not main dev time being put into the mogshop, SQEX is spending resources on this and we've been told that Mogshop sales are the only sales that get put back into the game beyond the initial sales, finally my personal issue (C) You have the mogshop selling consumable items like dye, which promotes repeated purchases.

If B is still the case, then the mogshop will only get worse, as it needs to keep expanding for the game to continue to grow; along with the fact that this year SQEX decided to not give the easter event a mount, but conveniently released an Easter themed mount on the shop, so it's very easy to conflate that the mogshop will actively prevent the in-game acquisition of items as time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Has it been stated that purchases using this system are directly reinvested into WoW?

In regards to MogStation, I think its been mentioned a few times YoshiP has said this is the case. Im not 100% sure but it wouldnt surprise me if it were as mogstation is FFXIV specific, and SE has it's own online store. As for WoW's reinvestment, I know that some of the money they got from WoW overall was reinvested outside of the franchise on other projects a few years back. I am not aware if this has changed.

This being said, yes Im fine with money being reinvested. But it doesnt skip the issue of the initial reason why "Buying G is bad for the game." The core aspect of that argument was that Gold had a tangible effect on in game power level and ease. So if you had tons of gold, your chance at 'winning' was substantially better. And blizzard does have a track record of softly endorsing 'P2W' model on their own platforms, though to be fair it also blew up in their face (D3 Shop), but instead of gold, it was just the items themselves.

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Actually, it does deal with the reason as to why gold sellers are bad for the game. In any game, WoW, XIV, etc.. the people who farmed gold and sold it did not do so with the intent of putting the currency back into the games economy through regular play (bots or players continually farm sections of the game and sell the items to vendors in order to get freshly introduced gold rather than deal with a fickle market). They would continually add additional gold into the system that would not have normally been gathered by normal play.. so when they do sell that gold for whatever sum, they immediately inject tens of thousands of gold into the economy.

With the WoW token system, the gold is already in the economy; To gather that much money as to afford a token, you would have to actively play the market board (either adding new items or relisting items) and the money that is already in the system simply is gathered in one place before being used to purchase the token from a player, who will then use that same gold to purchase more things from that market board.

Now, is the system perfect? No. It never can be. It is as close to a solution as you are going to reasonably get in a game however.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Another thread calling SE Greedy for making "Optional" items in a Cash Store.

https://i.imgur.com/RXs3cw9.gif

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What isn't optional?

It is greedy to have an "optional shop" selling shop unique items in a p2p mmo. There is literally no other way to say it. Instead of adding them items to the game in events free of cost, they sell them for additional profits instead.

Didn't WoW remove items from their shop not too long ago? I don't know, but I see a video about it I vaguely remember. I wouldn't call any cash shop consumer friendly and the sub should be value. If you don't and find a different game is, well go sub there. Money talks the loudest.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

You're right, WoW's characters are their own character with their own class and you have to level them all separately; Just as you have to level jobs individually in FFXIV.

While you award easier leveling to XIV through PotD and HoH (Which frankly are mind numbing ways to level), you conveniently leave out the fact that there is no hard-locked main story for WoW characters to play through, they are able to level their new characters as they wish; through questing or through dungeons; They also get their own possible 412 slots of inventory (giving one main and one alt character a combined inventory of 824) while my XIV character retains her hardlocked 560 inventory slots.

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I didnt mention having alts for storage for a specific reason, but if we want to do go this route... A sub for wow is $15, a single character sub on FFXIV is 13. If you do the $15 one, you get 8 per world. This ends up distorting the whole inventory argument because now its about managing alts and the like. You got to mail things to your alts in WoW for them to have access. Now while you can do this directly, if youre gonna talk about using alts and the like for extra inventory, then all you need is a friend to hold stuff as the go between instead of a mailbox. Little bit more effort, but doesnt stop you from abusing a full account.

Of course an easier method than this, if you got the gil and been at this a while, is to own an FC and transfer items via the FC vault. Though I do wonder if you were to purchase additional retainers, does that retainer limit increase across all alts?

Speaking of WoW, yes this was a common thing everyone did because rather than crafting high end bags, it was easier to create a bank alt and just mail them everything. Which tends to lead me to think that WoW itself has issues with inventory size. But as I said, this has been an MMO thing since the beginning.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

And you have an odd way of rationalizing the differences of new character from new jobs. In both WoW and XIV, you don't have access to the same dungeons as you do on your higher level, they become available as you reach the level to do them; only the difference with WoW is that there is no 30 step quest to open the dungeon, you simply have access to X dungeon when you hit X level (main character or not). You also have access to all of your mounts, and normally the heirloom mount that is accessible from level 1; And while you did mention the heirlooms briefly, you failed to mention that heirloom gear levels with you so you do not need to continually purchase new gear along with increasing all xp gains. Blizzard has also continually retuned xp required to level, and is further streamlining the leveling process for Shadowlands.

I have leveled several characters in WoW and several jobs in xiv, and from a 1:1 comparison between time spent and grind needed, WoW has a much smoother leveling experience than a secondary job in XIV.

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I came from WoW initially, and leveled a few alts on both horde and alliance side. So Im familiar with WoWs leveling models.

Now, unless theyve made changes, Heirloom gear is not free. In fact, it was quite expensive to get. Of course Gold buying, inflation, and other factors may have made this obsolete, but then youre looking at buying power with money. But I digress. Conversely, I can get mostly ilvl 120 gear with 2000 poetics at lvl 50, which is easy to get if you have that level 80. That gear will currently last you to 60, where you can replace it with 270. Now if I plan on leveling every class at the very same time, yeah Heirloom works out better, but that method of leveling is fairly unorthodox.

The crux of your point though is that compared to FFXIV which has an MSQ that you have to pass through once on the first play through, WoW doesnt, so it is 'easier'. In that regards, yeah, youre right. You dont have to read a single quest in WoW. You can smash that quest accept, kill boars, and go collect rewards til your an appropriate level, then sit in SW or Org, and just queue for dungeons and never have to see anything else in the game til your up to current xpac. Now for your first play through, Im not 100% sure why you would do this, and most people I remember who get into WoW actually read the quests and play the world content. If you want to argue Choice Vs Design, then maybe FFXIV isnt for you as the FF series has always revolved around a strong linear central story, where WoW it is irrelevant if you exist or not. You arent the hero in WoW, just a hero. You can skip Northrend completely and go to MoP and everything plays out the same. I wouldnt call this method of interacting with the game as a positive personally. When I play an MMO, I want a good story, and the advantage or disadvantage wow suffers from is you can easily out level the content you are interested in. You can sit there and read it and get no exp, or skip past it. But this point is more a thing of personal tastes. Point though is the MSQ itself has its trouble spot which is being addressed as we speak. So beyond that, the MSQ isnt treated as a detriment to most players (with exception to 2.1-2.55) on their first play through. It is a feature. It may have flaws, but this is a personal choice of what you want to sacrifice for it.

When it comes to levling your primary first time through, FFXIVs msq is more efficient. Itll take you everywhere, give you story, and level you appropriately. WoW youre left to kind of pick and choose, over level, and stories get left behind unless you want to complete that quest chain even if it doesnt give you exp. Two different approaches to the initial experience. For Alts, Unless you have stashed cash for Heirloom, you gotta grind and deal with equipment problems which are more difficult to overcome in WoW. If you got that heirloom, strap it on, lvl to necessary dungeon level, sit in org, have queues. Its not much different than PotD in that regards, but at least things like PotD was semi designed for the purpose of leveling alts.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

With this comparison, I believe I can safely claim that the FFXIV Cash Shop is indeed greedy and unnecessarily expansive.

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You can safely claim it.

You'd be wrong, but you can safely claim it.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

Though I do wonder if you were to purchase additional retainers, does that retainer limit increase across all alts?

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As somebody with additional retainers and an alt: yes.

They aren't character specific, they are account-wide, so if you buy let's say 2 additional retainers, and have 1 main character and 1 alt, it means that you can have access to 8 retainers in amount (2 free and 2 paid for each).

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

With the WoW token system, the gold is already in the economy; To gather that much money as to afford a token, you would have to actively play the market board (either adding new items or relisting items) and the money that is already in the system simply is gathered in one place before being used to purchase the token from a player, who will then use that same gold to purchase more things from that market board.

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Adding more gold to the econ doesn't inherently mean anything other than straight inflation, which sucks for newer players as they got a higher price point to deal with without the means to overcome it. Gold additions only matter when gold is tied to in game power. Which it is more so in WoW. So Blizzard being the middle man to facilitate gold trades between a player where the trade value is cash for Gold, its softly assisting in P2W. As a point - If Im a new player, and I can buy those month sub tokens and sell them for 1000 gold a pop (I dunno what its value is so Im just throwing a number out), Im gonna have a much easier time in the game than a guy who doesnt spend cash on that. I can buy gear, bags, etc and have a lot more ease than the guy who doesnt. Doesnt matter if Blizzard is doing it or a Gold Seller, Im getting an advantage over the guy who doesnt spend cash. It's not a straight exchange of course. Blizzard isnt selling me an epic for money thats BIS, but theyre making it easier to have rares and decent gear if I got the money.

That being said, their method will slow down inflation though. But to fix the inflation issue, they need to pull money out of the economy - meaning they need to have players buy things from NPCs, or be taxed in some capacity that is meaningful.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

As somebody with additional retainers and an alt: yes.

They aren't character specific, they are account-wide, so if you buy let's say 2 additional retainers, and have 1 main character and 1 alt, it means that you can have access to 8 retainers in amount (2 free and 2 paid for each).

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Hmm didnt know this. That means the more alts, the bigger bang for your buck you get for additional retainers so long as you a means to transfer items effectively.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

It is greedy to have an "optional shop" selling shop unique items in a p2p mmo. There is literally no other way to say it. Instead of adding them items to the game in events free of cost, they sell them for additional profits instead.

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You are aware those "Profits" go to the company right? Which funds these games to begin with.
So I guess, stop looking at it as Greed like this all goes into SE's pocket, and consider that the extra bit of revenue that they get from these extra side sales goes into both funding Current & Future Projects, as well as paying their employees.

Maybe it would it look less greedy if people actually consider or knew how a business runs.

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

the more alts, the bigger bang for your buck you get for additional retainers so long as you a means to transfer items effectively.

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If your in an FC, put your ALTs in that FC, transfer the items via the Company Chest.
But of course make sure you set Permissions and Ranks so stuff doesn't get stolen

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

You are aware those "Profits" go to the company right? Which funds these games to begin with.
So I guess, stop looking at it as Greed like this all goes into SE's pocket, and consider that the extra bit of revenue that they get from these extra side sales goes into both funding Current & Future Projects, as well as paying their employees.

Maybe it would it look less greedy if people actually consider or knew how a business runs.

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Player satisfaction is why people play the game to begin with and is likely most important factor to consider, especially when you have a subscription business model. Even Activision/Blizzard seems to understand this with how they are relatively conservative with amount of Cash Shop items, however I'm sure that even they are stretching with what they can get away with and have the Cash Shop as a contributing factor of WoW player dissatisfaction.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

Player satisfaction is why people play the game to begin with and is likely most important factor to consider, especially when you have a subscription business model. Even Activision/Blizzard seems to understand this with how they are relatively conservative with amount of Cash Shop items, however I'm sure that even they are stretching with what they can get away with and have the Cash Shop as a contributing factor of WoW player dissatisfaction.

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Whens the last time you played a COD game? You KNOW Activision will/has pushed it. And people will argue about Overwatch Lootboxes.
But Im sure there is more to Player/Customer Satisfaction then a Cash Shop

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

Seeing high-quality stuff getting added to the cash-shop

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What's high-quality about some bath robes and Clifford as a mount, and also a pair of slippers?

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

They delayed 5.3 patch, but of course mogstation garbage still has to come in a proper date and time.

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You're really comparing a few outfits to an entire patch full of content from various teams requiring an entire back and forth between teams and not to mention the director? Ok.

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Originally Posted by MsQi

What isn't optional?

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Well, pack it up boys. Mog Station products are the only things that matter. Everything we have access to in game? Literally worthless.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Whens the last time you played a COD game? You KNOW Activision will/has pushed it. And people will argue about Overwatch Lootboxes.
But Im sure there is more to Player/Customer Satisfaction then a Cash Shop

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I was talking about WoW, which is the only B2P subscription based game Activision/Blizzard has.

If Square Enix is defined as greedy for running and operating a business and not a charity, then you too are greedy for expecting all content released in the Mogstation be made free in game because you're paying the entry fee to in-game content.

They are not and never will be the revolutionary face of how MMOs will change the cash shop market; it's there to stay, scheduled mogstation content will be released, patches will be delayed, the game will shit itself because of errors and RMT will thrive because that's the nature of MMOs and it's not anything new. Doesn't mean it's acceptable but what can you do to vastly change it other the point your finger, wagging, that SE is rolling up your money and setting it on fire?

This isn't good guy Square Enix, you're all, myself included, small fish in a big pond. None of this is going away, money and capitalism supersedes and if they remove the mogstation or fail to update it then they will have to find another source of income, probably at the cost of a higher subscription.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

You are aware those "Profits" go to the company right? Which funds these games to begin with.
So I guess, stop looking at it as Greed like this all goes into SE's pocket, and consider that the extra bit of revenue that they get from these extra side sales goes into both funding Current & Future Projects, as well as paying their employees.

Maybe it would it look less greedy if people actually consider or knew how a business runs.

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Business are inherently greedy. They have a cashshop because WoW has warped people minds into believing it is 100% normal and ok to do it.

Your sub fee is what pays for continued development. And with the sub count in ffxiv it pays for it probably 8-10 times over at least. They make what 11-14 million in sub fees a month at least. You are literally paying them to develop content to turn around and have them resell stuff to you that they developed. That is where the greed is in SE and Blizzard and other mmos. In a Buy-to-Play game cashshop support development, in a f2p it is their only income, in a p2p game your SUB pays the development cost.

They want less greed give a voucher to the cashshop for each month you pay a sub. Say 4 months sub = 1 free costume or mount. That way you can cash in a part of your development cost you already paid to get content that should be incorporated into the game to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Business are inherently greedy. They have a cashshop because WoW has warped people minds into believing it is 100% normal and ok to do it.

Your sub fee is what pays for continued development. And with the sub count in ffxiv it pays for it probably 8-10 times over at least. They make what 11-14 million in sub fees a month at least. You are literally paying them to develop content to turn around and have them resell stuff to you that they developed. That is where the greed is in SE and Blizzard and other mmos. In a Buy-to-Play game cashshop support development, in a f2p it is their only income, in a p2p game your SUB pays the development cost.

They want less greed give a voucher to the cashshop for each month you pay a sub. Say 4 months sub = 1 free costume or mount. That way you can cash in a part of your development cost you already paid to get content that should be incorporated into the game to begin with.

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But hasn't the sub fee stayed the same since.... Early 2000s? When the cost of things has gone up?


You expect them to have the same expenses they did 20 years ago? Not reasonable.

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Originally Posted by QingNiao

If Square Enix is defined as greedy for running and operating a business and not a charity, then you too are greedy for expecting all content released in the Mogstation be made free in game because you're paying the entry fee to in-game content.

They are not and never will be the revolutionary face of how MMOs will change the cash shop market; it's there to stay, scheduled mogstation content will be released, patches will be delayed, the game will shit itself because of errors and RMT will thrive because that's the nature of MMOs and it's not anything new. Doesn't mean it's acceptable but what can you do to vastly change it other the point your finger, wagging, that SE is rolling up your money and setting it on fire?

This isn't good guy Square Enix, you're all, myself included, small fish in a big pond. None of this is going away, money and capitalism supersedes and if they remove the mogstation or fail to update it then they will have to find another source of income, probably at the cost of a higher subscription.

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I would personally be okay with paying for a higher subscription if it meant no Cash Shop, purely out of principle and the fact that I don't want there to be a system that can potentially go into a slippery slope. It's not fun imo to know there's a Cash Shop in the back of your mind for multiple reasons (immersion, authenticity, p2p game, slippery slope, ...)

I don't get these claims of "capitalism" and "money supersedes". Imo capitalism or any politics has nothing to do with this. This game is a product and I am a consumer voicing my complaints. This game wouldn't exist if it weren't for capitalism. You could argue that if there were more a free market where companies had an easier time starting out and growing, there would be more competition in the MMO market and these "greedy" Cash Shop practices would have never ensued in the first place out of fear of losing playerbase to another MMO.

The only thing that is of concern here on these forums is the game FFXIV and our complaints and discussions as consumers. Politics has nothing do to with this and holds no merit in (most) arguments.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

Well, pack it up boys. Mog Station products are the only things that matter. Everything we have access to in game? Literally worthless.

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If that's your priority...;)

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Originally Posted by SamRF

I would personally be okay with paying for a higher subscription if it meant no Cash Shop, purely out of principle and the fact that I don't want there to be a system that can potentially go into a slippery slope.

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... like say.. increasing a subscription every year to accommodate the increasing workload needed to maintain the ever expanding database and resource needs?

Understand you are also saying you want everyone to pay for the "extra" things YOU want, regardless if they want them or not.

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Originally Posted by SamRF

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Personally I don't want to pay a higher subscription price, exchange rates put mine higher because I pay in AUD and there is already an incoming revenue that potentially keep costs down.

However, I said my piece and while I don't agree with what's being said, stay true to your convictions I guess.

But this isnt WoW nor Blizzard.
My only issue with MogStation personally is that when i spend real money on outfits i want them dyeable and account wide[same applies for mounts being account wide not just select few].

Good lord, don't you people on Zodiark have anything else to do than complain about the Mogstation? Do you all just sit around in Limsa and stew about it during informal sit-ins? It's glamour items, buy them or don't. Just be glad they don't have the SWTOR model where they lock core functionality behind a paywall.

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Originally Posted by Barristan

Good lord, don't you people on Zodiark have anything else to do than complain about the Mogstation? Do you all just sit around in Limsa and stew about it during informal sit-ins? It's glamour items, buy them or don't. Just be glad they don't have the SWTOR model where they lock core functionality behind a paywall.

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Good lord, don't you people on Faerie have anything else to do then complain about people who complain about the Mogstation? Do you all just sit around in Limsa and stew about them during informal sit-ins? Be glad your not living in North Korea.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

... like say.. increasing a subscription every year to accommodate the increasing workload needed to maintain the ever expanding database and resource needs?

Understand you are also saying you want everyone to pay for the "extra" things YOU want, regardless if they want them or not.

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Nobody has to do what I demand. I'm simply giving my opinion and feedback, feel free to agree or disagree.

I also wonder why you're playing a subscription game and not a F2P or B2P game if you're so adamant on only paying for what you want.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Good lord, don't you people on Faerie have anything else to do then complain about people who complain about the Mogstation? Do you all just sit around in Limsa and stew about them during informal sit-ins? Be glad your not living in North Korea.

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No, because on Faerie, we actually play the game and buy glamour items if we want to, and don't buy them if we don't want to. Making 2 threads on the same topic over some whiny bullshit and an ugly glamour that is purely optional is just asinine. But thanks for the call-out, and bringing North Korea into it, because this definitely hits the level of Communistic Dictatorship.