Am I missing something, or are Dark Knights just terrible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I don't know what's happening than. Maybe it's solely Flood of Darkness that is killing my combo than. Flood is supposed to be the multi-target darkness gauge refiller, and I NEED to use it during my AOE combos if my gauge is getting low, but if I have no enemy tab-targeted, my combo stops cold and skill up-time screws up.

Still, I don't even have to worry about this type of thing with PLD, as that job doesn't even have that extra resource to begin with. Less headache by default.

---

I dont think you understand how drk works?

Unleash and Stalward soul are essentially identical to Total Eciplse and Prominence on pld,

Flood of Shadow Costs MP and gives you the darkside buff, (doesnt fill a gauge), its also an OGCD so its used between unleash and stalward

Abyssal Drain is an AOE ogcd cooldown

Quietus is and aoe blood gauge spender

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by purgatori

It's great that you're hitting your stride as a tank, and that you have, as a new player, been adventurous enough to take on tanking in the first place. However, you don't really have a choice to don non-fending gear as a tank... so when it comes to gearing until you reach endgame, just keep an eye on that ilvl.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malmstrom

Pre-50, if you don't know any better or are not getting any useful drops, there is plenty of Disciple of War gear that drops that is equippable that isn't really made for tanking. That would be my guess as to what may have happened based off his post.

---

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. DRK starting quest gear isn't specifically fending gear, and yes most early dungeon plate drops aren't fending gear. Admittedly, I also didn't know better until after I was literally griping about how hideous the heavy steel plate armor looked at my FC. Not that I wouldn't have worn it anyway thanks to glamour, but that was when I was outright told I need fending gear specifically for tanking.

Even still, it made a huge difference in my survivability in early levels at least. As long as I play mechanics and combos right, I can easily both hold aggro AND stay alive.

That said, as much as I appreciate the compliment on me tanking as a noob to the game, to be fair I was already pre-traumatized by WoW tanking, especially as a Vengeance Demon Hunter, one of the worst tanks in the game and legitimately a squishy tank (honestly, I have an easier time staying alive and holding aggro as Havoc, the DPS spec). FFXIV community feels a lot more pleasant than WoW's plus DRK story draws me in too much so of course I was waiting for the chance to jump in. :p

Some of my DH habits (which incidentally work well with MNK playstyle) kinda show in how I tank in that I tend to circle a lot to "herd" trash (in addition to making sure no one's behind me) and I have a habit of dodging because of how I had to tank as DH on WoW. It was a bit of a curve to fight the urge to run around too much as a tank, ha.

I guess I'll see how "squishy" DRK gets at higher levels, but I can at least safely say 30-52 is perfectly fine if you're using mitigation right and dodging when you can't mitigate (or are in doubt).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

Flood of Shadow Costs MP and gives you the darkside buff, (doesnt fill a gauge)

Quietus is and aoe blood gauge spender

---

Lol. Why are you arguing semantics?

Quote:

---

gauge

/ɡāj/

noun
1. an instrument or device for measuring the magnitude, amount, or contents of something, typically with a visual display of such information.

---

Darkside buff is a gauge counting from 0 - 60. It is a "gauge" simply because it numerically measures contents of a bucket. You implied that I don't know how DRK works, but your only retort is that the Darkside buff is not a gauge? The rest of the skill descriptions you rattled off are just info other people in the thread already shared with me. Thanks for playing though.

Edit: This well-known website right here Dark Knight Job Guide
LITERALLY calls it a "Darkside Gauge". So yeah, quit making things up just because you want to argue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

Lol. Why are you arguing semantics?



Darkside buff is a gauge counting from 0 - 60. It is a "gauge" simply because it numerically measures contents of a bucket. You implied that I don't know how DRK works, but your only retort is that the Darkside buff is not a gauge? The rest of the skill descriptions you rattled off are just info other people in the thread already shared with me. Thanks for playing though.

Edit: This well-known website right here Dark Knight Job Guide
LITERALLY calls it a "Darkside Gauge". So yeah, quit making things up just because you want to argue.

---

You said yourself youre dropping combo and didnt know how unleash/stalwart works so you clearly don't know how it works lol, also with the way drk works it might as well not be a gauge, if its getting low in aoe and its not because youre moving between packs youre doing something wrong. You need to gain some chill my dude.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I don't know what's happening than. Maybe it's solely Flood of Darkness that is killing my combo than. Flood is supposed to be the multi-target darkness gauge refiller, and I NEED to use it during my AOE combos if my gauge is getting low, but if I have no enemy tab-targeted, my combo stops cold and skill up-time screws up.

Still, I don't even have to worry about this type of thing with PLD, as that job doesn't even have that extra resource to begin with. Less headache by default.

---

that shouln't happen at all i mean nothing interferes with the stalwart soul combo so it's dosen't matter if you use flood or salted earth or whatever you combos wont stop working unless you fatfinger some single target weaponskill, and if you do it's just start with unleash again so is kinda meh.
the new darkside gauge is something you will complety ignore on every scenario bcs is useless, is not worth waste effort tracking it since you generate so much darkside time it's become a fancy waste of UI space, just use a initial flood at the begining of the pull and the rest will come alone as procs of TBN (the skills shine anyway so no need to watch the dark arts symbol either), keep you 2 step combo always rolling with the ocasional quietus and use TBN to get those procs and when you are set meaby delirium/quietus spam every 2 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

You said yourself youre dropping combo and didnt know how unleash/stalwart works so you clearly don't know how it works lol, also with the way drk works it might as well not be a gauge, if its getting low in aoe and its not because youre moving between packs youre doing something wrong. You need to gain some chill my dude.

---

I'm completely chill. I'm just pointing out that even though you are desperately trying to sound like an authority on the subject, you haven't said anything intelligent yet. Nobody said anything about moving between packs, you're just making things up now. You mentioned Darkside not being a "gauge", as if calling it a gauge or not even matters at all. I called you out on that and instead of admitting your mistake, you double-down saying "well, it might as well not be called that". It's called that because it functions exactly by definition like a gauge. How deliberately obtuse can you get?

Not knowing that a few skills aren't tab-target reliant does not mean I have no idea how the whole DRK Job works. I've taken my DRK into endgame content and have come out completely fine. The vast majority of the time I am tab-targetting. My problem was only an annoyance that occurred occasionally in wall-to-wall AOE pulls. But I guess that one occasional scenario shows that I know "nothing" about the Job. OK bruh.

You've added nothing to the conversation except your failed attempt to be smug about Job knowledge. Do you really think you are being helpful to someone simply by telling them "you don't know how a class works", and then proceed to only attack their verbiage? Nah, I think you know full-well that you are being smug, and it's intentional.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I'm completely chill. I'm just pointing out that even though you are desperately trying to sound like an authority on the subject, you haven't said anything intelligent yet. Nobody said anything about moving between packs, you're just making things up now. You mentioned Darkside not being a "gauge", as if calling it a gauge or not even matters at all. I called you out on that and instead of admitting your mistake, you double-down saying "well, it might as well not be called that". It's called that because it functions exactly by definition like a gauge. How deliberately obtuse can you get?

Not knowing that a few skills aren't tab-target reliant does not mean I have no idea how the whole DRK Job works. I've taken my DRK into endgame content and have come out completely fine. The vast majority of the time I am tab-targetting. My problem was only an annoyance that occurred occasionally in wall-to-wall AOE pulls. But I guess that one occasional scenario shows that I know "nothing" about the Job. OK bruh.

You've added nothing to the conversation except your failed attempt to be smug about Job knowledge. Do you really think you are being helpful to someone simply by telling them "you don't know how a class works", and then proceed to only attack their verbiage? Nah, I think you know full-well that you are being smug, and it's intentional.

---

Wow youre a really fun guy, god forbid people try to help right :P, getting so wound up over a gauge makes you sound the antithesis of chill. I was more concerned about you dropping combo and blaming it on flood, I also don't know why you're quoting me as saying you know "nothing" when i never said that but okay. Its okay to not know something about a job, for example I'd cleared all of this tier before I realised you could use burst strike in the middle of your gnashing combo without it breaking. My not understanding how drk works comment was related to the situation you were in, not drk in general, again need to chill with jumping the gun there. I misunderstood what you meant by gauge, but also it shouldnt be a point your focusing on either I was more interested in how youre breaking combo, and how its "not a problem with pld" when it has just as many skills that require a target. Anyways, You're clearly not up for a chat, just make sure youre using your floods and you wont need to ever look at the gauge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I'm completely chill. I'm just pointing out that even though you are desperately trying to sound like an authority on the subject, you haven't said anything intelligent yet. Nobody said anything about moving between packs, you're just making things up now. You mentioned Darkside not being a "gauge", as if calling it a gauge or not even matters at all. I called you out on that and instead of admitting your mistake, you double-down saying "well, it might as well not be called that". It's called that because it functions exactly by definition like a gauge. How deliberately obtuse can you get?

---

Nope, I'm with the other guy.

You said something that didn't make sense, and he gave you a basic breakdown of what the skills do based on that. That's it. We have no way of knowing what your DRK experience is, other than going off your replies which makes it sound like there is something that you weren't quite understanding, and you came back overly hostile.

So no, you are not chill, "bruh."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

One thing I NEVER see anyone mention. Every time I waver and decide that DRK will be my new main tank, there is one annoying factor that always infuriates me: the fact that I have to have an enemy tab targeted in order to do my AOE skills. Why? I'm in the middle of a pack spamming AOE combos and DPS kills the enemy I am targeting. All of a sudden my AOE skills cease to function unless I tab target a new enemy. This is jarring as hell. As PLD, I don't need to have anything targeted to do an AOE skill. I just Spin-to-Win.

Am I the only person who has noticed this?

---

Aren't you the same person who said DRK couldn't solo bosses? Hello again!

Other people have already detailed what requires a target and what does not in AoE, and how Darkside is so easy to maintain it's practically irrelevant, so I'll gloss over those points.

DRK AoE does have a few problems though. The main one being the fact that because Unleash and Stalwart Soul are spells, they have a strict 2.5 GCD that isn't affected by skill speed. This makes it difficult to get all five hits of Blood Weapon using only those two skills, and that 600 MP can be the difference between an extra TBN/Flood or not, considering how much you are dumping MP during pulls.

If you are having trouble with this, I recommend using the "Target Nearest Enemy" keybind instead of solely relying on tab targeting. (I have it bound to R) I find that to be far more consistent for aiming Floods properly, as I can adjust my positioning to change the direction of Flood relative to the enemy right next to me, rather than selecting a different target entirely and possibly clipping. The "width" of Flood is larger than it's animation will really display, so it's fairly forgiving for hitting a big clump as well.
This isn't just good for DRK either, I also use the bind to aim other line/cone based skills(Overpower/Nastrond), and setup Confiteors on PLD in the center of a big pack of mobs rather than at the edge of group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alaeacus

I'm completely chill. I'm just pointing out that even though you are desperately trying to sound like an authority on the subject, you haven't said anything intelligent yet. Nobody said anything about moving between packs, you're just making things up now. You mentioned Darkside not being a "gauge", as if calling it a gauge or not even matters at all. I called you out on that and instead of admitting your mistake, you double-down saying "well, it might as well not be called that". It's called that because it functions exactly by definition like a gauge. How deliberately obtuse can you get?

Not knowing that a few skills aren't tab-target reliant does not mean I have no idea how the whole DRK Job works. I've taken my DRK into endgame content and have come out completely fine. The vast majority of the time I am tab-targetting. My problem was only an annoyance that occurred occasionally in wall-to-wall AOE pulls. But I guess that one occasional scenario shows that I know "nothing" about the Job. OK bruh.

You've added nothing to the conversation except your failed attempt to be smug about Job knowledge. Do you really think you are being helpful to someone simply by telling them "you don't know how a class works", and then proceed to only attack their verbiage? Nah, I think you know full-well that you are being smug, and it's intentional.

---

This particular post is fairly ironic in retrospect. From 0 to a solid 80.

Might regret this, but to explain the semantics, the reason some DRKs don't think of Darkside as a "traditional" gauge is because it's not a resource to be consumed by an ability like on every other tank, including Blood Gauge on DRK, and because it has more gameplay similarities to a damage upkeep buff such as Storm's Eye or Disembowel, but with a built-in job UI element rather than a typical buff symbol.
The reason he posted about "moving between packs" is because it relates to your previous grievance with having to upkeep Darkside as a DRK job mechanic. Because of it's long duration, the buff often "bleeds" into the subsequent pulls, alleviating immediate reapplication in contrast to WAR's Storm's Eye without a Mythril Tempest refresh in the last few GCDs.
It was explained what may have been going wrong, clarification was given, and I don't think anyone is saying you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Not in THIS thread anyway. Just a simple misunderstanding of certain elements of the kit as they pertain to a specific use-case. Which is okay.

Due to Flood being an oGCD, it doesn't mess with your combo at all, and there may be an overemphasis on using it because "NEED to use it during my AOE combos if my gauge is getting low" rather than because it's a massive, spammable AoE line with no damage fall off. 60 seconds with two flood usages is more than enough for every pack in the game. You have to use the Floods anyway because you'll be TBNing on CD during most big pulls.
Those are not "gotcha!!!" comments downplaying skills or self-congratulating ones. They're just trying to elaborate why your thoughts are possibly misguided as it pertains to this particular issue, and how it may be rectified with further explanations.
You even brought the "I've done endgame!!!" argument into it, despite your lodestone having no raid gear. (Benefit of the doubt, forum account is an alt I guess /shrug)
Come on man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

DRK AoE does have a few problems though. The main one being the fact that because Unleash and Stalwart Soul are spells, they have a strict 2.5 GCD that isn't affected by skill speed. This makes it difficult to get all five hits of Blood Weapon using only those two skills, and that 600 MP can be the difference between an extra TBN/Flood or not, considering how much you are dumping MP during pulls.

If you are having trouble with this, I recommend using the "Target Nearest Enemy" keybind instead of solely relying on tab targeting. (I have it bound to R) I find that to be far more consistent for aiming Floods properly, as I can adjust my positioning to change the direction of Flood relative to the enemy right next to me, rather than selecting a different target entirely and possibly clipping. The "width" of Flood is larger than it's animation will really display, so it's fairly forgiving for hitting a big clump as well.
This isn't just good for DRK either, I also use the bind to aim other line/cone based skills(Overpower/Nastrond), and setup Confiteors on PLD in the center of a big pack of mobs rather than at the edge of group.

---

Okay, three things here:

1. I never even considered or realized the whole Unleash and Stalwart Soul being considered spells. My mind is blown. That is solid information to have, thank you.

2. Also never realized "target nearest enemy" was a thing because I haven't messed with keybinds in ages. I could see quite a few applications for that. Thank you again.

3. That reply was so matter of fact polite smackdown that I feel like I should apologize and I didn't even do anything. Goddamn. Well played.

I can cast unleash and stalwart soul without a target

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falar

I can cast unleash and stalwart soul without a target

---

Same here, aside from Stalwart soul, which I don't have yet. That's my main strategy for pulls really. I just spam unleash as I pass by and circle round to herd them back towards the rest of the party while also reminding them I exist and they should keep trying to beat the shit out of me. :p

I really hope Stalwart soul gets reworked to be a lvl 45 skill in the next expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

I really hope Stalwart soul gets reworked to be a lvl 45 skill in the next expansion.

---

That would be neat. It's pretty annoying to have the second AoE combo skill so late. Heck, that's even later than Dragoon receive their 2nd AoE combo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sawamura

Well for me is like
Self healing rank
PLD> WAR> GNB> DRK

Damage output
GNB> PLD> WAR > DRK

Mitigation Support
DRK > PLD> WAR=GNB

self-sufficiency
Thanks to SE all tank is almost same with few dps button different

Well drk best weapon is TBN and drk is best tank for dungeon cause of TBN

---

While most of this is correct, the damage output should read as such;

GNB -> PLD -> WAR=DRK because outside of Hades EX, WAR and DRK are more or less identical in their damage outputs, often being within single or double digits of one another.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malmstrom

1. I never even considered or realized the whole Unleash and Stalwart Soul being considered spells. My mind is blown. That is solid information to have, thank you.

---

Let me preface this by saying that I don't do any sort of serious content, and I meld Tenacity and Skill Speed because I think it is fun and that the following is entirely my own opinion. On that note:

Now that I'm actually aware of the fact that skill speed does not affect Unleash and Stalwart Soul, it has actually driven another nail into the coffin of DRK for me. Lately there have been a few things bothering me about the job, like how at lower levels they are almost painful to play. No Stalwart Soul or TBN makes me realize that with the way DRK is currently built, not having them kind of sucks. There's no mana generation in a large pack of enemies because there is no Stalwart Soul (RIP Blood Price, I will always remember BP + AD spam with fondness), and it feels like I'm missing cooldowns because HOORAY I HAVE DARK MIND. It feels like when they did the ability prune they should have also done a rearranging of skills to go with it.

I was rolling my eyes in a dungeon run earlier because I hit Delirium and was spamming Bloodspiller, and it just felt lazy. I was irritated when I kept running out of MP in a run because I had no Stalwart Soul. Maybe somewhere along the way I forgot what it was like being a low level DRK. Or something. I don't know. It just feels off.

More and more I find myself uninterested in playing DRK, which kind of bites because I played the unholy hell out of it since HW. A couple more runs to the 300 mount (I wish achievement progress was shared across characters, I'd have had 500+ long ago), and I think I'm going to shelve the job for a while.