Child-like characters?

Oh. This thread. Again.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...098c61273c.png

No. For all the reasons stated billions of times before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Isn't that like pretty much the whole plot of Naruto, and tons of other anime?

---

Yup, it is XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tdb

This actually raises another interesting point which no one has yet to mention: children age. Well, all people age, but after reaching adulthood the physical changes are much slower and less noticeable. I couldn't find a timeline of the events in the MSQ so far, but considering how much has happened it must have taken quite some time. Pretty much every patch seems to end with a "there's nothing now, please return later". There was the trip to Kugane which I recall took a month or two. All kinds of bureaucracy between nations that just doesn't happen instantly. If the WoL was in their early teens at the start of the story, how would you justify them not growing up during it? For that matter, how do Alphinaud and Alisaie look exactly like they did in 2.0 (aside from receiving new outfits)?

---

Because... emm.... you know....... M-Mommy Crystal blessing!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nestama

It'd be pretty demoralising, if you think about it.

---

To be fair, those people asked to be accepted in our team; no one was forced to join our ranks. All of them heard about our feats and decided to try to be under our command and help Eorzea to be a better place

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lolicon09

Yup, it is XD

---

Me at your name and this topic together.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/6586...de6d/tenor.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jybril

Me at your name and this topic together.
https://media1.tenor.com/images/6586...de6d/tenor.gif

---

https://i.imgur.com/hVx43sL.jpg

Only issue I see is inconsistency in how they determine what is and isnt suitable regarding 'younger characters'. As a point, a fairly large and vocal portion of the player base views lalafells as analogues for children and without some credibility to their argument. So why are the devs ok with this perception but not with the younger appearance characters? What is the differentiation here that the devs are making? To remain consistent with their own position, wouldnt this mean they need to address Lalafell designs?

If I had to take a stab at it, its because the distinction is either the devs dont consider lalafell designs to be childlike or that since theyve made quite a bit of effort to demonstrate that lalafells are adults in world (NPC dialogue/quests/and player interactions) that appearance isnt the issue as long as the stated age of the character is above a thresh hold. If they were really concerned about that issue, then it would stand to reason that Lalafells need to be addressed and explained to a large part of the palyer base why that becomes the exception or redesign lalafells. Personally, Im not opposed to the latter, as the redesigns wouldnt have to be extreme (define arms and legs to have actual basic definition/joints, and adjust torso to have more basic feminine/masculine averages).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Back on topic, I don’t understand why people want to play a minor or why this topic keeps coming up but it’s kinda creepy. Especially with how many times WoL gets flirted with and everything else that happens.

---

This is simple: Because completely normal, non-creepy people like to see children go on adventures. Harry Potter, the Goonies, Naruto, Full Metal Alchemist - franchises starring children have long had a healthy population of non-perverted adults that enjoy them. I'm guessing that a lot of the folks who wish to play the game as child characters for innocent reasons have, in the back of their minds, a bunch of addendums, like "OBVIOUSLY, Haurchefant's crush on the WoL will be written out if the player is playing as a child character," which would be pretty manpower-intense to actually implement in-game.

Actually implementing child characters in this game in an acceptable way would be a monumental undertaking, but I DO understand why folks would want SE to make the effort. There's no shortage of adventure games out there that put you into the shoes of a child (Zelda games, for instance), and no one thinks you're a perv for enjoying those. Wanting to create a child character of your own (rather than one someone else designed, like Link) and send them on adventures is totally understandable, and not automatically suspect in any way. It's just not practical, unless the game was designed for such characters from the start.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Snip.

---

Yeah, I get where you’re coming from and even thought about mentioning that in my original reply to this thread, but most media with protagonists under 18, including the ones you mentioned, all have kids younger than 18 as the target audience and were made from the start with the idea of the main characters being children. FFXIV isn’t either of those and a minor WoL would be incongruous with the tone.

Stuff like FMA and other shounen manga/anime may have wider appeal in the west, but the target age range it’s marketed to is 13-18. The only media I can think of with minors as main characters where the target age range is older, all have the youth of the main characters having to go through these experiences as a central part of the horror/drama (like IT or Stranger Things).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

As a point, a fairly large and vocal portion of the player base views lalafells as analogues for children and without some credibility to their argument.

---

Actually, adult lalafells and child lalafells have the same models. So lalafells do look like children even in the ffxiv universe. Even their emotes are quite childish. Does it really matter, though? The adult lalafells are treated as adults, and they act like adults as well.

http://i.imgur.com/UfVc6tV.jpghttps://external-preview.redd.it/J-0...=webp&94b3685c
https://i.redd.it/h1kthc28xs3y.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...b37463bbde.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...09feaac5bd.jpg

If a new race or character model option came out, and it happened to have the same stature and physique as Alisaie or Alphinaud for example, I think that would be fine. If they are an adult, and as long as they are treated as an adult and behave like an adult, I don't see the problem with the character being playable. If people have a problem with this, but think lalafells are ok, then it's just fake outrage.

edit:
Just fyi, I am not asking for younger versions of the races to be available. I just like characters that are on the smaller side, and that are also slim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

The lorebook noted that Elezen have longer lifespans then Hyurs and also age slower as a side-effect with their puberty happening in their 20s as opposed to the teens.

That said, I think Alphinaud and Alisaie are unlikely to change much by the end of the game's lifespan.

---

Even if they try to deny it, the fact they made that up in the lore kind of makes a stronger argument for the loli shota twincest types out there... there have been some other popular sketchy things that are basically the same as those two.

It would be better to have more varied age looks and body types, maybe less angry au ra faces too lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Senn

Actually, adult lalafells and child lalafells have the same models. So lalafells do look like children even in the ffxiv universe. Even their emotes are quite childish. Does it really matter, though? The adult lalafells are treated as adults, and they act like adults as well.

http://i.imgur.com/UfVc6tV.jpghttps://external-preview.redd.it/J-0...=webp&94b3685c
https://i.redd.it/h1kthc28xs3y.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...b37463bbde.jpg
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...09feaac5bd.jpg

If a new race or character model option came out, and it happened to have the same stature and physique as Alisaie or Alphinaud for example, I think that would be fine. If they are an adult, and as long as they are treated as an adult and behave like an adult, I don't see the problem with the character being playable. If people have a problem with this, but think lalafells are ok, then it's just fake outrage.

edit:
Just fyi, I am not asking for younger versions of the races to be available. I just like characters that are on the smaller side, and that are also slim.

---

This kinda outlines my point. Now Ill give some leeway to the devs regarding lalafell children simply due to production limitation and I would hazard if given design time, lalafell children would not look like their adult counter parts. As a point, not every race has a child character, or if they have one its a model modification (throw elf ears on a Hyur child model and voila! Elezen child!) so I get creating a child for lalafells who have vastly different models would be more time consuming than it needs to be for their involvement msq or sidequest. Keep in mind that this isnt exclusive to FFXIV. For the longest while, goblins in WoW were essentially the same model until cata. But anyways, it would be a nice touch for the world building though to have each race have children running about. But I digress.

In any case, yeah, there is a mental disconnect going on here regarding children or child analogues PCs. If the arguement its all about stated age and not so much appearance, than there is no problem with younger looking characters (particularly if theyre only humanoid, not inherently human). If it is an issue with appearance regardless of age, then the playerbase has a justified issue with lalafells and their appearance. I just want consistency. Either redesign lalafells, or dont make it about "Well we want to not encourage the creepers."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

Only issue I see is inconsistency in how they determine what is and isnt suitable regarding 'younger characters'. As a point, a fairly large and vocal portion of the player base views lalafells as analogues for children and without some credibility to their argument. So why are the devs ok with this perception but not with the younger appearance characters? What is the differentiation here that the devs are making? To remain consistent with their own position, wouldnt this mean they need to address Lalafell designs?

If I had to take a stab at it, its because the distinction is either the devs dont consider lalafell designs to be childlike or that since theyve made quite a bit of effort to demonstrate that lalafells are adults in world (NPC dialogue/quests/and player interactions) that appearance isnt the issue as long as the stated age of the character is above a thresh hold. If they were really concerned about that issue, then it would stand to reason that Lalafells need to be addressed and explained to a large part of the palyer base why that becomes the exception or redesign lalafells. Personally, Im not opposed to the latter, as the redesigns wouldnt have to be extreme (define arms and legs to have actual basic definition/joints, and adjust torso to have more basic feminine/masculine averages).

---

Clothes, emotes, appearance, everything and absolutely everything makes anyone see them as children.

And if not, tell me, why are even bathing clothes different in that race than in all the others, why don't they allow you to change the size of the bust?

And seriously speaking, if that is the case, what difference does it make, why are the lovers of that race themselves the ones who deny something so obvious and evident, it's all right, all of us who have played with them know the feeling of happiness they transmit to you.

I really don't understand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

lalafell children would not look like their adult counter parts

---

Well, it doesn't really matter what they would have looked like. The fact of the matter is that, right now, adult lalafell and children lalafell both share the same model. If it was seriously that big of an issue (which it's not), I'm sure they would have been remodeled by now. And honestly, I don't see many people that outraged by it. What I'm saying is that it's really not a big deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

In any case, yeah, there is a mental disconnect going on here regarding children or child analogues PCs. If the arguement its all about stated age and not so much appearance, than there is no problem with younger looking characters (particularly if theyre only humanoid, not inherently human).

---

Agreed with this. I don't see a problem with a race like the lyn from blade and soul for example.

http://lagunal8.net/bnsna/kgallery/U...9952648058.jpg
http://lagunal8.net/bnsna/kgallery/U...8339217053.jpg

Thankfully the development team have already put out a statement that implies that we won't be seeing any additional child-like playable races or customisation options added to the game. It was back when they addressed the controversy surrounding the lack of male viera. It's a little strange that some individuals keep pushing for the equivalent of the physiques of underage characters like Alphinaud and Alisae with that in mind - especially when the development team have put their foot down on that front as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

This is simple: Because completely normal, non-creepy people like to see children go on adventures. Harry Potter, the Goonies, Naruto, Full Metal Alchemist - franchises starring children have long had a healthy population of non-perverted adults that enjoy them. I'm guessing that a lot of the folks who wish to play the game as child characters for innocent reasons have, in the back of their minds, a bunch of addendums, like "OBVIOUSLY, Haurchefant's crush on the WoL will be written out if the player is playing as a child character," which would be pretty manpower-intense to actually implement in-game.

Actually implementing child characters in this game in an acceptable way would be a monumental undertaking, but I DO understand why folks would want SE to make the effort. There's no shortage of adventure games out there that put you into the shoes of a child (Zelda games, for instance), and no one thinks you're a perv for enjoying those. Wanting to create a child character of your own (rather than one someone else designed, like Link) and send them on adventures is totally understandable, and not automatically suspect in any way. It's just not practical, unless the game was designed for such characters from the start.

---

But they won't do it because of the completely abnormal, creepy people. There's already the dubious "but they're actually adults!" excuse for Lalafell; it does not change what any "erotic" depiction of them is really appealing to at a base level, but at least SE can point to the fact that they're adults as plausible deniability when some of their fans depict them in such compromising situations. Likewise, with Alphinaud and Alisaie, they can control exactly how they're dressed and perceived.

Worse yet, knowing how they often use such things as excuses, it'd potentially become a pretext not to have any revealing outfits on adult characters or any flirtatious overtures by the NPCs, which they already do to an extent because they think their western audiences are too mentally fragile to handle Haurchefant being raunchy with their WoL. Plus we'd have to endure endless "how can the antagonists do that to a child!" tantrums, which we already see some people bring up whenever the prospect of killing one of the twins off arises, even though they voluntarily accompany the WoL.

No thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Clothes, emotes, appearance, everything and absolutely everything makes anyone see them as children.

And if not, tell me, why are even bathing clothes different in that race than in all the others, why don't they allow you to change the size of the bust?

---

Actually, you CAN change the size of a female Lalafell's bust. They have a bust slider like all other female characters. It only makes a small difference, but it's there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

Actually, you CAN change the size of a female Lalafell's bust. They have a bust slider like all other female characters. It only makes a small difference, but it's there.

---

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, no, because even if you put max or min it's still the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeh, no, because even if you put max or min it's still the same.

---

Actually, there IS a difference between min and max bust size for Lalafell ladies, which can be seen in the character creation screen. BUT you have to wear nothing, place the camera in the correct angle, and zoom in as much as posible; then just move the bar from 0 to 100 and you'll be able to see an awfully small increase

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lolicon09

Actually, there IS a difference between min and max bust size for Lalafell ladies, which can be seen in the character creation screen. BUT you have to wear nothing, place the camera in the correct angle, and zoom in as much as posible; then just move the bar from 0 to 100 and you'll be able to see an awfully small increase

---

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b01c...3942/tenor.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b01c...3942/tenor.gif

---

Ohh, please, you wanted to hear/read that answer

https://i.imgur.com/b7yRlnO.jpg?1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omymy

Clothes, emotes, appearance, everything and absolutely everything makes anyone see them as children.

And if not, tell me, why are even bathing clothes different in that race than in all the others, why don't they allow you to change the size of the bust?

And seriously speaking, if that is the case, what difference does it make, why are the lovers of that race themselves the ones who deny something so obvious and evident, it's all right, all of us who have played with them know the feeling of happiness they transmit to you.

I really don't understand.

---

Its a matter of perspective. The reasoning is more or less simply theyre not seen as children because theyre older than despite appearances and their appearance in of itself isnt as child like as people claim. The game lore wise illustrates this pretty well, as well as character interactions. Their emotes are typically deemed child like mostly do to the cutesy or overly animated nature of it, particularly in comparison to the other races. Though that quality is not exclusive to Lalafells (you see more cutesy animations among female characters more frequently, and male animations tend to be overly animated when its comedic in nature, so its not only a lalafell thing.) Beyond that, most glamours are identical in appearance to the other races, with the distinction mainly being an issue of some 2.0 glamours having different builds or if htere is an issue with the body build of Lalafells when it comes to the glamour.

Yeah, you can 'change' bust size but its change is minimal. That setting probably has more to do with how the CC is built code wise.

Beyond this, youre still illustrating the point Im making. If your perspective is that lalafells are analogous to children and the devs are aware that a part of their player base shares this view, and they are against the implemetation of child like characters, that makes lalafells designs a problem that theyre overlooking on purpose. They dont really have a solid explaination why there is a disconnect unless they really dont care about the issue. As I said, I personally wouldnt be opposed to redesigns but the devs wouldnt probably do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

If your perspective is that lalafells are analogous to children and the devs are aware that a part of their player base shares this view, and they are against the implemetation of child like characters, that makes lalafells designs a problem that theyre overlooking on purpose. They dont really have a solid explaination why there is a disconnect unless they really dont care about the issue.

---

Virtue signaling and saying we are doing this to protect children sounds much better then coming out and saying something like, "We aren't going to waste time, money, and resources on something that won't maximize our revenue." At the end of the day SE is a company, and profits must come first for them.

Melichoir, something you may not be taking into consideration is, it's almost a fantasy standard so to say, that there is a race of very short 'child-sized' people in so many fantasy worlds. For example the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings. Even in the books, while fully adult, many of the taller races would perceive them as children. Many MMOs have their cute small races - Gnomes in WoW for example are much like Lalafel; cute small with cutesy voices and animations. If people would ask for more height discrepancies - all races, especially the taller, to be allowed to have their 'shortest' shorter than they are, instead of asking for child options, they'd likely get farther.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

Virtue signaling and saying we are doing this to protect children sounds much better then coming out and saying something like, "We aren't going to waste time, money, and resources on something that won't maximize our revenue." At the end of the day SE is a company, and profits must come first for them.

---

I have my doubts that they're virtue signalling given the frequency of scandals involving such things within the FFXIV community, particularly where Reddit and Twitter are concerned. Even this forum isn't free of creepy requests/commentary in regards to such things - as some of the contributions to this thread prove.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I have my doubts that they're virtue signalling given the frequency of scandals involving such things within the FFXIV community, particularly where Reddit and Twitter are concerned. Even this forum isn't free of creepy requests/commentary in regards to such things - as some of the contributions to this thread prove.

---

"Among some of the feedback we received were requests for playable characters that resembled young boys and girls. Unfortunately, this is one request we cannot consider for ethical reasons.

With every passing year the debate surrounding moral and ethical issues in games grows more intense, and we do not want to present children in battle or in pain" edit: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...24#post4975024

If that were true Alphinaud, Alisaie, Ryne, that kid we are trying to cure in Shadowbringers wouldn't exist.

They won't even create headpieces for the new races. What makes you think they will go back and make the armor pieces fit child races? The armor pieces for Viera are the same ones, but slightly made larger and they decided to not do the head pieces because the ears get in the way (Aesthetic decision). If they created a child race, changing the armor wouldn't be as easy as decreasing the size.

You are getting hung up on me saying, "virtue signaling", when they are just making a wise PR decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

You are getting hung up on me saying, "virtue signaling", when they are just making a wise PR decision.

---

With every passing year the debate surrounding moral and ethical issues in games grows more intense, and we do not want to present children in battle or in pain—and posing such characters sexually and taking screenshots and so forth would be expressly forbidden.
In any event, regardless of what our players did or did not intend to do, the fact remains that if a review board were to evaluate such content and determine it were unacceptable, we would be forced to suspend FFXIV’s service. We ask that you keep these factors in mind as we strive to abide by the changing standards of the times.

I think this is a wise decision that goes beyond PR.

I'm curious as to how the west chooses to handle games with character creators that are flexible enough to easily create avatars who look convincingly underage. Do they simply choose to selectively punish people based on whether or not they choose to abuse that?

Because I regularly saw people with lewd, pre-teen looking characters in the JP version of PSO2 and that's due for a release in the coming months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I think this is a wise decision that goes beyond PR.

---

It goes beyond PR, you are correct. The main concern SE has is about maximizing profit. Using their workforce to create a child-race and everything that would accompany that would be a gross misallocation of their resources. I don't think they should create child avatars for players. They should work on stuff the majority of players actually want, an example of that would be the Nier Raids.

I'm just as curious about why everyone is being overly touchy on this topic. I came from anime MMOs and literally, all of them have chibi or underage character models that you play. No one cared not even in the slightest about this and just carried on without a second thought. In Mabinogi, you can literally make your charact 10yrs old and strut around in ANY outfit. That included outfits like the sexy Scathatch outfit or the revealing hunter outfit they released for a Halloween event, paired with high heels and victoria secret wings. No one would blow up the forums about seeing characters like that and honestly, it was like the norm for anime MMOs. We just didn't care.

Our minds just didn't jump to those thoughts, or at least nowhere near as much as it does here. And if it did, you never heard about it. It makes me wonder what the heck is going in non-anime MMOs to where everyone must think of the pervs first before adding anything to the game. Is it really just the times we're in, or something else? Or both?

Different companies might simply have different standards, I suppose.

Can't blame SE for wanting to play it safe, anyhow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AngeliouxRein

I'm just as curious about why everyone is being overly touchy on this topic. I came from anime MMOs and literally, all of them have chibi or underage character models that you play. No one cared not even in the slightest about this and just carried on without a second thought. In Mabinogi, you can literally make your charact 10yrs old and strut around in ANY outfit. That included outfits like the sexy Scathatch outfit or the revealing hunter outfit they released for a Halloween event, paired with high heels and victoria secret wings. No one would blow up the forums about seeing characters like that and honestly, it was like the norm for anime MMOs. We just didn't care.

Our minds just didn't jump to those thoughts, or at least nowhere near as much as it does here. And if it did, you never heard about it. It makes me wonder what the heck is going in non-anime MMOs to where everyone must think of the pervs first before adding anything to the game. Is it really just the times we're in, or something else? Or both?

---

My guess would be that the dev-teams behind those anime-MMOs you're talking about arent part of globally known, multi-billion dollar company with a lot of famous brands.

Or in other words: a tiny korean studio has a lot less to lose than Square Enix. And chances are that anything said tiny studio does will go unnoticed by most people. Infact, a sh*tstorm because of showing underaged characters in... questionable outfits etc. could even be good for such a studio/game, since that would put it in the spotlight for once.
FFXIV on the other hand is already constantly in the spotlight, SE as a whole has a huge media-presence - and something like children in sexy clothes will only hurt them.
Bottomline is: Those anime-MMOs can get away with it because no one cares about them - FFXIV and SE cant.

Personally I find it way more disturbing that people seem so extremly eager to play as children in a setting like this - while it is fantasy, yes, we've got tones of war and violence going on. This doesnt seem like a game to me where playing a literal child would be "natural". The game is also not being marketed to children (at leat in germany we've got an age-rating of 16). So needing to play a child to "play yourself" kinda goes out of the window.
So... why is playing a child so appealing to people?

@Vidu @KageTokage

Yeah, I did take into consideration the whole rep thing and big company problems but it just leaves me scratching my head is all. Like when they announced Nier being added to the game, it made me wonder if they just were like" welp they're robots, shouldn't be a problem that 9S looks questionably young".I mean no one really knows how young the Nier characters are but they look a little young, especially 9S. But, I don't know, it's their game and I'm not going to push it.

And I get what you're trying to say about the violence and war but again in anime games, we didn't care. We were all too busy trying to create our favorite anime characters of all time and pushing them through every war, battles, trials, you name it. None of these censorship like thoughts occurred to us in the slightest. But if it just them playing safe, I don't blame them. I just find it interesting in where they stand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darsien

Just to be a smart ass, children do exist in war and violent environments if you're currently unaware. It isn't unimaginable that a child, who is almost a god in our game's instance, will be involved in the goings on of the world.

---

The game has an instance of this with Unukalhai. He was the Warrior of Light for the Thirteenth, but being a kid, he wasn't strong enough to handle it. Now the Thirteenth is the Void.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

because perverts exist, especially in FFXIV

---

Fixed. Had to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

The game has an instance of this with Unukalhai. He was the Warrior of Light for the Thirteenth, but being a kid, he wasn't strong enough to handle it. Now the Thirteenth is the Void.

---

Yeah, but the poor lad don't have what other childs in comics/animated series/movies/games have... The power of being the main character XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ftail

It goes beyond PR, you are correct. The main concern SE has is about maximizing profit. Using their workforce to create a child-race and everything that would accompany that would be a gross misallocation of their resources. I don't think they should create child avatars for players. They should work on stuff the majority of players actually want, an example of that would be the Nier Raids.

---

Lets get rid of the Whole "Money" thing here. The issue also boils down to that SE and YoshiP do not want to risk Young childlike characters being sexualized in their MMO. Which puts their company, and the Entire game at risk of being shutdown. You can argue that a game being suspended is a loss of money...yes. But money and Maximizing Profits isn't the drive here.

I find it quite interesting than after the release of the neir gear more ppl seem to want child like chars. And slightly creepier too tbh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zeylos

I find it quite interesting than after the release of the neir gear more ppl seem to want child like chars.

---

Doesn't look like this for me. I remember people asking for playable Padjali long ago. Demand seems to be pretty much the same. It's just that more people came to the game lately and more started to use forums actively.