Genuine question for those upset with the new Mentor requirements

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Honestly, mentorship complaints in the game are a complete meme at this point. 99% of mentors are perfectly fine, they go about their business every day, usually stay silent because people hate to get unsolicited advice. If you ask them they'll help.

The NN are a general chat but as soon as someone has a question it gets an answer. There's occasional drama and somebody gets kicked.. what you'd expect from any game really. And that's that.

Every hundred mentors you get some ass that thinks the crown is cool and couldn't give two Fs, is a dick to everyone (newbies still learning especially). I honestly play this game more than the average player and the last time I saw a mentor fly off the handle was back when we still had cross class abilities so it makes me chuckle every time someone says the "majority" of mentors are shit.

The commendation bump is a little dumb IMO, I think the crown should be switched to something else instead (maybe just an M or a book), I also think the novice network should be opt in and not opt out.

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Completely agree. People don't remember the 100's of average or good mentors they come across but they'll remember that ONE mentor who was a donkey's rear and all of a sudden all mentors are a donkey's rear in their mind.

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Originally Posted by EnigmaticDodo

I dunno if its relevant to the thread, but I never even wear my mentor crown or participate in the novice network after I noticed it was essentially a chat channel for 'Mentors' to cause drama in, kick people out for superfluous reasons, and not actually help anyone. I got it originally for the sake of helping people, but like the thread starter said, you can still do that without it.

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I see your profile says you are on Gilgamesh. Out NN is actually pretty good. Yeha it's used as a general chat but novice questions never go unanswered. We do got a couple people that will cause problems sometimes but thats every server. Don't let a couple ruin what is otherwise a working system. Again goes back to that people never remember the 100's of mentors but they will remember the few bad eggs.

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Originally Posted by TalithaSolarien

This is not was written there:

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It was absolutely clearly written in English 5.0 patch note, however:

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However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.
* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

So yeah, I'm pretty sure that you have full rights (roulette and NN) until 5.1, restricted rights (no roulette but NN) from 5.1 until december during the transition period and no mentor rights afterwards, as you will lose your mentor status if you don't renew during the transition period.

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It wouldn't be much of transition period were the mentor roulette removed during it, so it's quite possible that mentors keep their full rights till December and then continue with uncertified mentor status in NN. Considering that there are also crafting mentors, SE might consider NN requirements being lower than the roulette requirements and let the ghost mentors provide support there.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

It wouldn't be much of transition period were the mentor roulette removed during it, so it's quite possible that mentors keep their full rights till December and then continue with uncertified mentor status in NN. Considering that there are also crafting mentors, SE might consider NN requirements being lower than the roulette requirements and let the ghost mentors provide support there.

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Until 5.1 all Mentors are stay as they are.
From 5.1 to 5.2 they have recertification period when your icon will be normal (pve/pvp/trade) if you finished it and special one if you didn't.
From 5.2 if Mentor didn't finish his recertification, he loses the status entirely including losing access to NN since he isn't a Mentor anymore.

Once more, from 5.0 patch note:

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However, as of patch 5.1, to ensure that all mentors are held to the same standard, changes will be implemented to encourage mentors who qualified under the old system to obtain recertification.
* Please note that mentors who do not do this during patch 5.1 will lose their certification in 5.2

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Once more, from 5.0 patch note:

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They lose certification, yet there is gonna be a whole new mentor status which is exactly without said certification that they lose after the renewal period.

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"From the release of patch 5.1 to December 2019 (planned)".

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"Mentors who do not renew within the specified period will be unable to access the following features:" Mentor Roulette / Current statuses

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That implies that they lose the roulettes after it ends and that would also imply they keep NN after it ends, because it's not said they lose NN and because it's even mentioned there that they keep it.

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They will, however, still be able to participate in the Novice Network chat channel. An icon will indicate that they are a mentor who has yet to renew their certification.

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So till we get a better statement my bet is on the current mentors keeping the chat even if they don't meet the new requirements.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

They lose certification, yet there is gonna be a whole new mentor status which is exactly without said certification that they lose after the renewal period.




That implies that they lose the roulettes after it ends and that would also imply they keep NN after it ends, because it's not said they lose NN and because it's even mentioned there that they keep it.


So till we get a better statement my bet is on the current mentors keeping the chat even if they don't meet the new requirements.

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We will see, I suppose. It's not very clearly written. For me it looks like they lose status entirely.

Not upset. Raising the requirement just shows not even SE takes the mentor system seriously. As I said before, mentor status still requires zero mentoring.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

I mean, it's been a long time since the game started. If you don't have 1500 comms, you're doing something horribly wrong and shouldn't be teaching people in the first place.

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I know enough people who prefer to run content only with their friends/FC/LS mates, so I can imagine that they are struggling to get comms that way.

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Originally Posted by Zazay

I know enough people who prefer to run content only with their friends/FC/LS mates, so I can imagine that they are struggling to get comms that way.

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I don't doubt that, but if that's the case, why be a mentor in the first place? If they aren't willing to run with randoms, then they don't need to be a mentor and their lack of meeting the requirements is a good thing because it keeps them out of the mentoring. If they really want to keep the crown they can start running with randoms and get commendations.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

I don't doubt that, but if that's the case, why be a mentor in the first place? If they aren't willing to run with randoms, then they don't need to be a mentor and their lack of meeting the requirements is a good thing because it keeps them out of the mentoring. If they really want to keep the crown they can start running with randoms and get commendations.

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That would be an effective argument if Trade Mentor wasn't a thing. Something anyone with a PC can honestly bot.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

I don't doubt that, but if that's the case, why be a mentor in the first place? If they aren't willing to run with randoms, then they don't need to be a mentor and their lack of meeting the requirements is a good thing because it keeps them out of the mentoring. If they really want to keep the crown they can start running with randoms and get commendations.

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Because the fact you prefer to run content with friends doesn't mean you can't be a helpful teacher that knows the subject well same as it doesn't mean that you aren't communicative in chat. Not to mention that people somehow tend to have mindset "mentor need to clear savage" while in fact 90% of questions you have from new players are about very basic things like "Where do I get my chocobo?". If anything, I see "serious" questions (like about some specific skills or mechanics) more from mentors to mentors than from new players. At least in NN.

The Commendations requirement is a filter, not the most bad one for sure because it's still a way to go, but the weight of commendations overall is very overestimated because they don't really work in a way they supposed to work. You can get 7 commends in MSQ roulette just because you was the only one random person there while everyone else were a premade party. Or you can get one because you simply was the last who stayed in duty. Or can get nothing even though you played like a god saving your party every 5 minutes. I know people who doesn't give commendations, like... ever. Just because. It's all about luck.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Because the fact you prefer to run content with friends doesn't mean you can't be a helpful teacher that knows the subject well same as it doesn't mean that you aren't communicative in chat. Not to mention that people somehow tend to have mindset "mentor need to clear savage" while in fact 90% of questions you have from new players are about very basic things like "Where do I get my chocobo?". If anything, I see "serious" questions (like about some specific skills or mechanics) more from mentors to mentors than from new players. At least in NN.

The Commendations requirement is a filter, not the most bad one for sure because it's still a way to go, but the weight of commendations overall is very overestimated because they don't really work in a way they supposed to work. You can get 7 commends in MSQ roulette just because you was the only one random person there while everyone else were a premade party. Or you can get one because you simply was the last who stayed in duty. Or can get nothing even though you played like a god saving your party every 5 minutes. I know people who doesn't give commendations, like... ever. Just because. It's all about luck.

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This needs to be quoted in every thread about comms. Because this.

Commendations are not an absolute for skill or "friendliness." It does not indicate who is capable of assisting others, just that out of the requirements, that many people cared to hit the like/comment/subscribe buttons at the end of a run.

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Originally Posted by Gula

This needs to be quoted in every thread about comms. Because this.

Commendations are not an absolute for skill or "friendliness." It does not indicate who is capable of assisting others, just that out of the requirements, that many people cared to hit the like/comment/subscribe buttons at the end of a run.

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Running with friends who you can get to know their playstyle and easily deal with them on a consistent basis is NOTHING like running with randoms, and having the skill to react to their random and often irregular playstyle, requires a level of patience and, occasionally, guidance that FC friend runs will never need.

So, no.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Running with friends who you can get to know their playstyle and easily deal with them on a consistent basis is NOTHING like running with randoms, and having the skill to react to their random and often irregular playstyle, requires a level of patience and, occasionally, guidance that FC friend runs will never need.

So, no.

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And what it has to do with commendations requirement, which we're discussing here? You can be a smartest player on the planet and still get 1 in a week just because you never were lucky enough to be in a party where people do gives commends and also do this not just randomly (which mostly happens). Or you can be slowpoke and have your shiny 3000 because you were lucky. Like seriously, some people are ready to give you a commend because you said "Hello", not because you was actually an adaptive good player. It just doesn't work in a way it was supposed to work. Maybe it does work on Japanese servers but in those 5.5 years I played on NA and EU I see that getting commends is an absolute random that has nothing to do with your level of proficiency, sadly or not.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Commendations are not an absolute for skill or "friendliness." It does not indicate who is capable of assisting others, just that out of the requirements, that many people cared to hit the like/comment/subscribe buttons at the end of a run.

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Doesn't add to your chances if you choose to play with a full pre-made vs bringing a random or 7. Comms are given for whatever russian roulette you wanna make of reasons. You still need randoms to "get/farm" commendations.


If you want to dress it with a logical concept, based on how some people are so anti randoms/pugs. SE wants you to be an actual masochist to be a mentor. Be that person who doesn't leave just because there was a wipe, didn't get the dungeon they wanted, or any other reason that leads to you (in a general sense) avoiding randoms like the plague.


Its a metric that depends less on skill and more on how much time you're willing to invest to help someone, even if at the end you might not get anything.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Running with friends who you can get to know their playstyle and easily deal with them on a consistent basis is NOTHING like running with randoms, and having the skill to react to their random and often irregular playstyle, requires a level of patience and, occasionally, guidance that FC friend runs will never need.

So, no.

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You're looking too deep into something shallow. If I got, say, Crown of the Immaculate on roulettes, do I really need 1.5k comms to tell someone "that's a tankbuster"? Or rolling it back, Stone Vigil (Dusk Vigil?) to tell the tank "Stand at A to tank the dragon" or "stand behind him when he's about to cast Swinge" All content I've run with friends. It's not a savage progress party, it's just basic mechanics you can tell anyone.

The changes won't affect me as I meet the requirements of Trade Mentor, which is the only crown I wear next to my name.

Personally I use it so new players can identify me and know that they can ask for help with crafting.

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Originally Posted by Gula

That would be an effective argument if Trade Mentor wasn't a thing. Something anyone with a PC can honestly bot.

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Trade mentor is not combat mentor, so it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

Because the fact you prefer to run content with friends doesn't mean you can't be a helpful teacher that knows the subject well same as it doesn't mean that you aren't communicative in chat.

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It does mean you're available to help the people you are more likely to interact with without being a mentor.

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Originally Posted by Gula

If I got, say, Crown of the Immaculate on roulettes, do I really need 1.5k comms to tell someone "that's a tankbuster"? Or rolling it back, Stone Vigil (Dusk Vigil?) to tell the tank "Stand at A to tank the dragon" or "stand behind him when he's about to cast Swinge" All content I've run with friends. It's not a savage progress party, it's just basic mechanics you can tell anyone.

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Exactly, so you don't need 1.5k comms, but you also don't need a crown to tell people about those things.

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Originally Posted by Halivel

And what it has to do with commendations requirement, which we're discussing here? You can be a smartest player on the planet and still get 1 in a week just because you never were lucky enough to be in a party where people do gives commends and also do this not just randomly (which mostly happens). Or you can be slowpoke and have your shiny 3000 because you were lucky. Like seriously, some people are ready to give you a commend because you said "Hello", not because you was actually an adaptive good player. It just doesn't work in a way it was supposed to work. Maybe it does work on Japanese servers but in those 5.5 years I played on NA and EU I see that getting commends is an absolute random that has nothing to do with your level of proficiency, sadly or not.

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Because running with friends negates the need to have patience with others. Running with friends means you usually always know how they're going to play. Running with friends does not teach you how to be a mentor.

But running with randoms, taking the time to be patient with others, being able to adapt to differing playstyles on the fly, being able to explain mechanics in a helpful and considerate manner after several wipes, those are the things that makes a mentor, and because of the way you conduct yourself, you earn the commendations needed for the status.

While I main WHM, I still earn commends when I BRD, SMN or NIN, because I try to be friendly, I ask if people need tips before fights, and after wipes I don't lose my rag with anyone, I simply calmly ask if I can offer guidance in a constructive manner, and do what I can to get the clear.

It costs nothing to be friendly and helpful, but it pays well.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Because running with friends negates the need to have patience with others. Running with friends means you usually always know how they're going to play. Running with friends does not teach you how to be a mentor.

But running with randoms, taking the time to be patient with others, being able to adapt to differing playstyles on the fly, being able to explain mechanics in a helpful and considerate manner after several wipes, those are the things that makes a mentor, and because of the way you conduct yourself, you earn the commendations needed for the status.

While I main WHM, I still earn commends when I BRD, SMN or NIN, because I try to be friendly, I ask if people need tips before fights, and after wipes I don't lose my rag with anyone, I simply calmly ask if I can offer guidance in a constructive manner, and do what I can to get the clear.

It costs nothing to be friendly and helpful, but it pays well.

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I am not disagree with fact that running with randoms gives you more experience in terms of players playstyle. I'm not even against of raising commendation requirements, it has sense, because 300 wasn't that much even for HW, what to say about ShB. But once again: being proficient or friendly has nothing to do with commendations in general sadly, because it's the most random part in requirements.

I had plenty of runs where I helped people with mechanics and "Thanks" in the chat was the only reaction without commendation. I mean, it's good to receive personal thanks and I appreciate it, but it adds nothing to requirements checklist. I also had plenty of runs when there was no reaction at all, nor Thanks, nor comm. I never leave on wipe, never rage about it and I'm quite patient. Maybe not "aweeee" person, but polite. Most of the time I'm in duty people leave the dungeon even before I finish my loading. I'm just "Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad." type of person when it goes to such things so my count at now 1831 with 182 days of playing (according to /playtime command in game).

Meanwhile my FC leader has 4.3k comms, while he's just uses "hello/byebye" macro and mains Healer/Tank, and that's pretty much all he does. I need to actually ask him to check playtime though, maybe it's just that he had bigger online than me in the past. /shrugs/

It's all not bad, it's just how it happened to be. People just should remember that commendations are very randomized situational criteria that never will be fully objective. Two different people can have drastic difference in amount of them even though they play pretty much the same in terms of being friendly, adaptive, patient, etc. And I also think that SE keeped that in mind because I'm pretty sure they have access to info how much commendations players have in average.

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Because running with friends negates the need to have patience with others. Running with friends means you usually always know how they're going to play. Running with friends does not teach you how to be a mentor.

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I think you are the problem here, with that kind of mindset. That's not how people function as a whole my friend.

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Originally Posted by Gula

I think you are the problem here, with that kind of mindset. That's not how people function as a whole my friend.

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I'm... not sure I follow...

I use Duty Finder... I play with randoms... I don't act like a douchebag... I offer advice to anyone who might need it, I say "hi" and "bye" in a polite way, I learned very quickly back in 2.x days what things to watch out for in other players so that I may adapt my playstyle to theirs... and even as a BRD, SMN or NIN, I not only racked up the commendations, but I also helped educate new players.

So tell me how I'm the problem here again, because frankly, you've confused me.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

I mean, it's been a long time since the game started. If you don't have 1500 comms, you're doing something horribly wrong and shouldn't be teaching people in the first place.

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Or you have an alt/multiple alts, or play with friends and FC mates a lot? I'd probably have the 1500 if I hadn't spent a year or so playing a second character. Was that horribly wrong of me?

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Originally Posted by Blokeymon

Because running with friends negates the need to have patience with others.

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Not to like... nitpick, but... what? No it doesn't. Friends can have different interests, skill levels, and ability to play at their best any given day too. You still need to know how to be patient with your friends, especially if those 'friends' are actually FC mates who might not actually be friends at all, and might also be people you're unfamiliar (or at least less familiar than friends) with. It's not on the same level as a group of total strangers, but it's still a factor. People don't stop being people just because you know them.

My point is that outside of not having access to Novice Network or Mentor Roulette, if you don't meet the admittedly arbitrary requirement to be a Mentor, what's stopping you from mentoring? Anyone can be a mentor if the goal is to help sprouts (and players in general) have a better playing experience. You just help people out where you can, and you should do it without expecting a reward.

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

My point is that outside of not having access to Novice Network or Mentor Roulette, if you don't meet the admittedly arbitrary requirement to be a Mentor, what's stopping you from mentoring? Anyone can be a mentor if the goal is to help sprouts (and players in general) have a better playing experience. You just help people out where you can, and you should do it without expecting a reward.

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In my case I don't need the status for helping people, though NN is the place where I do it the most lately because that's where I usually notice questions (in comparison to /shout chat). But well, I meet the requirements with some backup even, so it doesn't really affect me.

I just genuinely try to comprehend why some people, this thread included, put commendations in terms of mentoring on such God level when in fact they say literally nothing about you (not you personally, but like a summarizing word) as a player except that you were lucky enough to receive them. Even 10.000 border will still not prevent the system from toxic guys that barely, if not at all, can teach. Actually, it can get even worse than it is now. Same goes to ideas like "let's force them clear Savage/UwU for getting the status". Like seriously... proposing making the system even more toxic than it is already and elitist on top of that? Very rational idea, indeed.