PVP exclusive mounts rewards are unfair to non pvp players

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Originally Posted by Billythepancake

I will admit, I'm glad they at least want to keep ultimates at that level. You have to work for that "ultimate legend" title still if you want it, you can't just unsync cheese it. I do wish other rewards were locked like that though, it trivializes my raid mounts when I find out you could just wait and do it with echo for a way easier time. The only thing I get to keep after echo are the parses.

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Does it matter how anyone else got the item you have? Why does someone else having or waiting to get it easily effect you in any way? Everything devalues in all video games. Your bragging rights if any should be - I got it first- and really I think that's where it ends.

I don't think it's unfair. If you'd like those rewards, do PVP. Learn how to PVP. Get used do pvping. It's not unfair at all to get reward after 10+ hours of PVP.

Those rewards exists because S-E wants that mode being rewarding.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

I just hate that the PVP stuff is generally locked behind ranked matches only available for limited times. It's their way of crying "please make us an esport!" despite not having fun gameplay with the Feast.

The Feast sucks. I like Frontlines, but Feast has no redeeming qualities, especially when the only time people want to do it is for these items. Why is Feast always so dead? Because no one wants to do it without that limited-time carrot.

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Not true. Feast is active (usually at prime time) even outside of seasons.

You can take every mmo and criticize their attempt on a ranked PvP mode, only because it isn't fortnite or dota/whatever doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. There is still fun atm to players in feast and could be even more fun if done properly...

Your issue is, you don't have fun with Feast, but still get mad at people who get rewards with it. Why do you care?

I cant get namazu earrings anymore, because of the time limited moogle PvE content. I would have had to do boring syrcus tower runs to get that item, but I didn't because it wasn't fun to me.

Every season you have lots of people doing their first season and they get into top100, it is easy if you read a guide or ask players how to improve just like you would for an extreme primal or savage.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

Does it matter how anyone else got the item you have? Why does someone else having or waiting to get it easily effect you in any way? Everything devalues in all video games. Your bragging rights if any should be - I got it first- and really I think that's where it ends.

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It doesn't effect me that much, if I'm being honest, but it does make think "why did I work so hard for said reward when I couldn't just waited and got it way easier" it's not a huge deal, but it does take away from that feeling of "I'm one of the few who has this" because now it's way easier, and more common, for others to have it.

Nine pages. The OP really took everybody here for a roller coaster ride, didn't he?

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Originally Posted by Lacan

The mounts are there to try and get you to do PvP. why do you think people do PvP?? the stimulating gameplay??? :eek:

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There is nothing more exciting than killing someone who doesn't want to be killed. (*'-')b

But really, monsters fight you, but they don't fight back like people. They don't try to understand you, they don't hold a grudge, they don't run away, nothing. But players? Players keep it from becoming stale, every match is different, like fighting games.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

rigged ranking system that can be easily exploited (ranked PvP)

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STOP. THIS.

Literally any one person can get top 100 in any season of Feast. It is absolutely not difficult. You can even take week-long breaks and still keep your spot most of the time.

perfect time to get those mounts is now with everyone farming the mog tomes.

How is it unfair? Just because one is too lazy to not do the content?
I do not like PVP like at all and have the one mount and multiple gear sets for Garo

I wanna mounts and gear from savage mode to but i don't raid, why i can't buy them for tomestones or wolfmarks? Lets flame SE together
*** Please discuss ***

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It would be dumb to make them purchasable with wolf marks. I don't see why making them purchasable with a high amount of collars would be an issue, though.

The notion of people getting offended by others having access to a mount/glam that they scarcely use/care about anymore if at all feels a bit silly to me, honestly.

Heck, they could just make the "welfare" versions of mounts/glams a different color or something if they want the people who won them initially to still feel special.

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You are basically asking to trade 10 participation trophies for a gold medal in something you didnt earn. Why do you think you are entitled to everything in the game?

"Scarecely use"? I'm sorry I can only have one mount and one glam on at a time?

Again it devalues the work put in by those who earned it. I do not want someone who plays 40 matches per season for a couple seasons getting the same thing that I worked for by playing almost 250 matches that season. Time =/= Effort.

We all agree that there should be more items for purchase with collars, but it shouldn't be at the cost of devaluing someone elses achievement.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

Does it matter how anyone else got the item you have? Why does someone else having or waiting to get it easily effect you in any way? Everything devalues in all video games. Your bragging rights if any should be - I got it first- and really I think that's where it ends.

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The thing is though one could easily apply that very same logic to the pvp rewards.

Why not put them in the gold saucer and buy them with mgp?

After all "does it really matter how anyone else got the item you have?" And "Why does someone else getting it easier affect you??"

The reality is it does matter.
Value is perceived by exclusivity and rarity it's as true in games as it is in the real world. And has been that way since the dawn of time basically.

I hope the moogles bring us some ranked PvP mounts in the future. Nobody seems to mind birbs and ponies being available so I see no reason why a double-standard should exist in regards to PvP rewards. The time that some people once spent doing 99 Thordans is in no way worth less than the time some other people once spent grinding The Feast. If one is good for Itinerant Moogles, then so should be the other.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

I hope the moogles bring us some ranked PvP mounts in the future. Nobody seems to mind birbs and ponies being available so I see no reason why a double-standard should exist in regards to PvP rewards. The time that some people once spent doing 99 Thordans is in no way worth less than the time some other people once spent grinding The Feast. If one is good for Itinerant Moogles, then so should be the other.

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Well you see, PvP is dead in this game. If you can get ranked PvP mounts from the moogle, then no one would bother to do PvP at all. There needs to be some reason to do PvP.

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Originally Posted by MPK

Well you see, PvP is dead in this game. If you can get ranked PvP mounts from the moogle, then no one would bother to do PvP at all. There needs to be some reason to do PvP.

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Well you see, that's not a problem given that nobody can get those mounts, including the people who actively play PvP. The chance is already gone. Nobody who missed the magitek chairs or Roaders can ever get them. So... anyone who wants them, like me, STILL has no reason to do PvP. So ultimately any way that brings them back would be better than... them just not being obtainable at all.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

Well you see, that's not a problem given that nobody can get those mounts, including the people who actively play PvP. The chance is already gone. Nobody who missed the magitek chairs or Roaders can ever get them. So... anyone who wants them, like me, STILL has no reason to do PvP.

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The reason to do PvP is to get exclusive mounts that no one else can ever get no one would actually do that objectively garbage content otherwise.

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Originally Posted by MPK

The reason to do PvP is to get exclusive mounts that no one else can ever get no one would actually do that objectively garbage content otherwise.

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And how is that relevant to anyone who doesn't own a time machine? I'm afraid I can't bring myself to keep that objectively garbage content alive if the only reason for me to care was already gone forever by the time I started.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

And how is that relevant to anyone who doesn't own a time machine? I'm afraid I can't bring myself to keep that objectively garbage content alive if the only reason for me to care was already gone forever by the time I started.

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Well unfortunately that's too bad. We should keep exclusive things exclusive and not become wow

And the exclusivity of those things is important because...?

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

And the exclusivity of those things is important because...?

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PvP would be dead otherwise.

And how do no-longer -obtainable rewards from the past help keep it alive in the present again?

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

And how do no-longer -obtainable rewards from the past help keep it alive in the present again?

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It means all future rewards will be exclusive.

If anything Garo event is too generous.
Even the worst of the worst PvP players can farm all the achievements just by joining feast/FL time and again till they get carried enough times.

If anything PvP need more exclusive rewards that require personal effort instead of plain patience.

I see. Oh well, in that case I guess PvP can continue to be garbage. If the only reason to play it is time-limited exclusive rewards as opposed to things like... I don't know, entertainment value, self-improvement, genuinely compelling gameplay and such, then maybe it deserves to bleed players. Let me know when it's dead for good, I'll save my best popoto dance moves just for that occasion.

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Originally Posted by Bonbori

I see. Oh well, in that case I guess PvP can continue to be garbage. If the only reason to play it is time-limited exclusive rewards as opposed to things like... I don't know, entertainment value, self-improvement, genuinely compelling gameplay and such, then maybe it deserves to bleed players. Let me know when it's dead for good, I'll save my best popoto dance moves just for that occasion.

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Now you get it. There's literally no reason to play that mode aside from rewards.

Its so unfair that only Hardcore Raiders and Payers get Ultimate titles! How unfair is that to pvp Players?! /ironie off

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Originally Posted by Dzian

The thing is though one could easily apply that very same logic to the pvp rewards.

Why not put them in the gold saucer and buy them with mgp?

After all "does it really matter how anyone else got the item you have?" And "Why does someone else getting it easier affect you??"

The reality is it does matter.
Value is perceived by exclusivity and rarity it's as true in games as it is in the real world. And has been that way since the dawn of time basically.

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That doesn't answer my question nor does it really matter to anyone with more pride. My friend having the new iphone doesn't effect me nor does it make my S10 plus weaker. Same with anything I got ingame. I'm not going to stop using x item because someone got it easier. Like I said to the person I was asking, my value of said item isn't cool because I'm the only one with it. If it means anything it's that I got it while it was hot. Someone waiting to get it when it's easier doesn't take my value of said item away as I got it and still using it. This doesn't mean we should just give everything as just like real life,you want the new phone, you earn the money for it. So with these rewards ingame.. if you want the item you gotta do the content.

I just don't think making it easier after x many years is a bad thing. Again 90% of content goes down that road anyway so it's a moot point.

Edit: I'm stating this again so people know. I'm not saying we should be handled everything for no work. That's not how anything works in game or in real life. What I am saying is that everything devalues anyway, so wanting endgame stuff to always be super hard to get isn't how this works either. Let me put it this way, if the only value any item has is because you were the only one to get it then it doesn't hold much value then, as all it would take to kill that is for everyone ever to do the content in question. My value for anything is the fact I worked to get whatever, and that has nothing to do with how you get the same item. As all I care about is having the thing for me to use. I don't care how anyone else gets said item.

I got the Falcon during the promo and now anybody can get it from moogles! How DARE they!

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I got the Falcon during the promo and now anybody can get it from moogles! How DARE they!

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I know your being sarcastic but i do want to add to that, If you got falcon during the promo it was account-wide new characters you create get it, get it during moogle event it is character side only so you have to get 50 moogle tomestones for every character you want the mount for and should the event pass and you make a new character you can't get it.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

I know your being sarcastic but i do want to add to that, If you got falcon during the promo it was account-wide new characters you create get it, get it during moogle event it is character side only so you have to get 50 moogle tomestones for every character you want the mount for and should the event pass and you make a new character you can't get it.

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I mean that's in the same concept as doing an event as it's currently going on and being able to rebuy from the Salvager down the road instead of paying on the Mogstation.

Rewards those who actively take part in it (in this case subbing at the time) with the ease of always getting it back, but allows others who weren't there to experience it albeit with a restriction.

So you OP seriously believe that just because you do not enjoy one piece of content it should have zero worthwhile rewards tied to it? The reason WHY these mounts are there in the first place is because the PvP in this game used to be so unpopulated that those who actually wanted to play PvP couldn't as the queues could be above four hours.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MessyIncre...restricted.gif


Let me comprehend this.

It's not fair to a PVE player that the game has exclusive PVP rewards, but it is entirely fair for a PVP player that the game has exclusive PVE rewards.

Oh, ok! Fair enough

Or do you think it would be more fair if mounts were obtained by just spending a little Gil, not through your effort?

BS! If you want pvp rewards, so make it happen doing pvp. I don't like the pvp in this game, but I have all GARO rewards. And I don't like Rathalos fight, but I will need to kill him 41 more times to get the mount too. And this is totally fair for me. It makes these mounts cool, like a trophy of your effort.

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

Let me put it this way, if the only value any item has is because you were the only one to get it then it doesn't hold much value then, as all it would take to kill that is for everyone ever to do the content in question..

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Ah but that would be no bad thing. And would actually benefit the game as a whole if it ever happened.

If everyone cleared that content and got that reward at it's original difficulty that would ever be seen as a good thing. It would mean the average skill of players would obviously be much higher and the devs could then stop designing content that can be face rolled and is boring as a result.

Which would then in turn make the game more rewarding to play and likely go a long way to keeping players interested and engaged for longer....

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

Edit: I'm stating this again so people know. I'm not saying we should be handled everything for no work. That's not how anything works in game or in real life. What I am saying is that everything devalues anyway, so wanting endgame stuff to always be super hard to get isn't how this works either. Let me put it this way, if the only value any item has is because you were the only one to get it then it doesn't hold much value then, as all it would take to kill that is for everyone ever to do the content in question. My value for anything is the fact I worked to get whatever, and that has nothing to do with how you get the same item. As all I care about is having the thing for me to use. I don't care how anyone else gets said item.

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Not everything devalues. I said this before and I'll say it again, PVP rewards are trophies. It's like any major sporting event (ex. the Olympics), win at the very end, get a trophy. Your PVP reward tells literally everyone else that you were top 100 and what season.

If you give anyone outside of top 100 the trophy (or give a top 100 trophy to the wrong season), you devalue the trophy by destroying the meaning. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't earn it.

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

Not everything devalues. I said this before and I'll say it again, PVP rewards are trophies. It's like any major sporting event (ex. the Olympics), win at the very end, get a trophy. Your PVP reward tells literally everyone else that you were top 100 and what season.

If you give anyone outside of top 100 the trophy (or give a top 100 trophy to the wrong season), you devalue the trophy by destroying the meaning. If you don't have it, it's because you didn't earn it.

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I think we're actually on the same side. As I'm saying if you want the things then do the content. I just think those items have no value other then having said item. Anything other then that means nothing imo. So no I don't agree with op. I also don't think they should be compared to trophies either but I'm just odd on that front. The only reason why those are rare is because everyone isn't doing said content. If they were we wouldn't be having this chat. Really OP and others just needs to play the game.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

It took me a total of 3 days to get my Feast mount. Mind you, this was only doing a couple of hours a day, and queuing alone.
I did a bit of research, and went in as a GNB a ripped healers to pieces with whatever group I queued in with. I didn't find it taxing or hard to get my wins. Practice runs count, so you don't need to play ranked to get the mount in The Feast.

Don't know how it is in your data center, but in Aether, for Frontline, I believe just being in the Immortal Flames(It might be them, I honestly forget) grants you a quick and easy win, because the teams are stacked.

Playing a few hours of PvP a day, you could still easily get the mounts in llike.. what.. a week, week and a half?

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This is something that does differ though based off on what data center the player exists in.

The primal one for instance is currently set up this way: You queue as a frontline player freelancer and you will never end up as a Mael (which is almost always the winner) and the reason why is there is a significant group on Primal who refuse to queues as freelancer who exist in Mael and end up having more cohesive groups.

Also I have tried several roles and learned them in PvP and thats not the issue (granted I will admit Im just talking about frontlines and not feast because Feast is never a mode that I learned how to play) sometimes the issue is really the 1 versus 2 system.

A little surprised that the more obvious solution to me wasn't suggested, reskins. They have reskinned gobbue that was exclusive and put a new one in. They have reskinned certain mounts and sold them for cash. At this point the only thing they haven't sold out on is the legacy tattoo. They probably hope that they can have an e-sports division some day or I am sure all the pvp stuff would be available in some form by now.

when Garo event ends bet pvp mounts will one day show up on the Mogstation or be able to buy them from Itinerant Moogle during the event. Know on Aion could use any pvp gear in pve content. Same with Blade and Soul can wear pvp gear in pve content.

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Originally Posted by Neutro

I've been playing mmos for over 15 years, it's the first time that i'm seeing pvp exclusive rewards that can be used outside of the pvp sphere. This is absolutely nonsense.

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Just off the top of my head, GW2 has several armor skins and minions that are only achieved through PvP that can be used in PvE.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Know on Aion could use any pvp gear in pve content. Same with Blade and Soul can wear pvp gear in pve content.

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Lvl1-60 gear is also good for PvE, the PvP entry level was 50 and 60.
With Stormblood PvP entry lvl changed to 30, the lvl 70 gear turned into lvl1 glam gear. Do you want only lvl70 characters to be able to use PvP gear and people who join it at lvl30 go out empty? This is the thought you have to make with this system now.
We don't have any new 5.0 items for PvP anyway, which is a bit sad because the Heavensward addon got 2 full sets and Garo Event started there.
An easy solution would be, to make the next gear lvl80 but to allow glamouring of those items on lower ilvl items. But this is currently forbidden.