Bye bye turbo craft bots!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

funny is...its a waste of time to do that lol, in the time you wasted trying to get sweat to proc, you coulda gathered more times for more exp then you waited to get in that single hit(and you woulda had more materials)

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Well sweat of brow was a bonus if it proc'd, but guardian aspect was on the whole time. You would just activate it at the crystal so it was extra xp for the duration of the leve. (up to 30 minutes.) You just have to purposely miss the special material whenever it tries to come up up until the very end.

EDIT: (Need to complete my thoughts before hitting post LOL) Now that I think about it, that doesn't sound at all like what Vedis described. The guardian aspect trick still required that you bounce between nodes as they have a set attempt limit.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

funny is...its a waste of time to do that lol, in the time you wasted trying to get sweat to proc, you coulda gathered more times for more exp then you waited to get in that single hit(and you woulda had more materials)
and you probly wasted enough time to lose some of your exp bonus for quick completion

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have you seen this
http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ffxi...fGjh0YP1Eg.png
http://static.ffxiah.com/images/ffxi...Q280S9cQGK.png
Sweat of brow and scroll, this 3 times is worth the effort

which would apply nicely if the proc rate of SoB wasn't so damned low

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

which would apply nicely if the proc rate of SoB wasn't so damned low

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When I use it, I don't put any other ability on my bar. It seems to proc rather regularly that way.

I've done the exact same thing since I acquired the ability, and though I have no hard data to support it, from 1.19 on it sure did seem like the proc rate dropped, and this is a comparison born from leveling FSH to 50 prior to that patch and MIN and BTN to mid 40's after

Bye bye turbo craft bots!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

yeah, i reported it of course

interesting fact though, i have seen another bot that runs gathering out anywhere too, and it has a bad habit of glitching(character will continuously teleport over and over as he takes out his axe/hatchet) until he starts mining/logging a node, and then, he is at least 20-30 yards away by the time he starts to actualy mine/log it.

more interesting, its the same shell, different people, every time i see this happen, some may call it some sort of lag, but there is no coincidence its the same shell, and only people in that shell every time i see it, and that im not the only one who has witnessed it coming only from them

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I have seen this also, someone mining from very far away on every node. I obviously asked him how he was doing that but got no response. I thought i was lagging, but every other miner on the same nodes was normal, except that guy.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

according to what we have been told by reps, what you are doing is actualy considered illegal

if you are not at your computer, you are afk leveling/botting basicaly which is against tos

this change is aimed at people like you

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You actually believe that it's against TOS to play the game without looking at the screen? You're going to have to point me in the direction of where in the rules it says that as I'm a tad unconvinced to say the least.

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Originally Posted by LemmingKingXXX

I've done the exact same thing since I acquired the ability, and though I have no hard data to support it, from 1.19 on it sure did seem like the proc rate dropped, and this is a comparison born from leveling FSH to 50 prior to that patch and MIN and BTN to mid 40's after

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You might be right. They did bump xp gain for harvesters so maybe they lowered the proc rate to compensate? Not sure.

you guys really have no clue as to how the bots even operate. most of the bots that are in use hook into and monitor the games memory address. the bots aren't as dumb as you think. its going to see that it will stand up or be interrupted. and it will just go back to crafting via the same processes that any player would. some of the bots in use are very complicated pieces of software.

so this change doses absolutely nothing to botters

bot always adapt. you can never get rid of them
any measures meant o punish bots dosent it just hurts the player

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

You actually believe that it's against TOS to play the game without looking at the screen? You're going to have to point me in the direction of where in the rules it says that as I'm a tad unconvinced to say the least.

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I could be mistaken, but I thought a community rep actually made a post about it in a thread on the topic and stated that it was in fact a breach of the TOS. Don't look at me for the quote though cause I'm just going on fuzzy memory and I would have no idea. LOL.

But on a side note isn't this:

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

play the game without looking at the screen?

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a paradox of sorts? How can you play if you aren't engaged with it. To me that's not playing. It's just pushing buttons.

what i cant just push buttans ?

pushing buttans is aginst TOS OMG

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

You actually believe that it's against TOS to play the game without looking at the screen? You're going to have to point me in the direction of where in the rules it says that as I'm a tad unconvinced to say the least.

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While I may feel it is silly, it is in the ToS. The specific portion (at least as I read it):

...during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

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Originally Posted by Thanos

Um.. I dont turbo craft.. i actually sit there and hit a button.

So wth? after x amount of spamming 1 synth to level i have to make something else? for how long do i need to make something else before i can go back to the same thing i was making before?

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Yeah this needs some clarification, I farm for a week to get my mats then do 1 mass craft run, I mean does this mean I can craft 40 synths then needs to craft 4-5 on another craft or is it like Mining Botany etc where I need to wait another day to do my gathering again, Devs please comment.

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Originally Posted by Vassteel

what i cant just push buttans ?

pushing buttans is aginst TOS OMG

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Hey, I didn't say it. And actually I think what they were talking about was programming a controller to auto activate the button over and over so actually no pushing by the player at all in that case.

Also, like you, I'm of the mind this really isn't going to do anything to people that run bot programs.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Yeah this needs some clarification, I farm for a week to get my mats then do 1 mass craft run, I mean does this mean I can craft 40 synths then needs to craft 4-5 on another craft or is it like Mining Botany etc where I need to wait another day to do my gathering again, Devs please comment.

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Man, I hope not. That would really piss me off to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

Hey, I didn't say it. And actually I think what they were talking about was programming a controller to auto activate the button over and over so actually no pushing by the player at all in that case.

Also, like you, I'm of the mind this really isn't going to do anything to people that run bot programs.

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it really isnt. its going to do absolutley nothing but effect the bottom like slightly. by making the process longer. but not by much.

This is dumb. I spent a day or so when I have nothing else to do and gather as much materials as I can..(Usually all same one) then I go and craft them all out when I get the chance. Why should I have to deal with more annoyance...crafting already sucks as it is. -_- and like someone already pointed out..there probably are/will be bots that will just start crafting again.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'd prefer if they just went back to requested items instead of recipe to get rid of the turbo controller bots and have a higher limit.

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The exact opposite will be happening in 2.0, every synth will require the selection of a recipe.

This is stupid, there must be a better way to deal with bots. If they are going to put us up against achievements that require you to synth 3000 times then they need to set the limit somewhere around 100 at a minimum... if they really do this at all. They really need to get rid of bots, not just make it annoying for the rest of us.

When I'm grinding I just put up a movie and use a controller in the background, I'm not clear why I need to be involved/looking when I'm doing 300 r10 synths at r45-50. I'm almost 100% certain this will just piss off active players and do absolutely nothing to bots. Maybe they should focus on the bots/rmt camped out at Cedarwood (Mysidia) spamming some leve where they can gather karakul fleece.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I could be mistaken, but I thought a community rep actually made a post about it in a thread on the topic and stated that it was in fact a breach of the TOS. Don't look at me for the quote though cause I'm just going on fuzzy memory and I would have no idea. LOL.

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If you don't have a link or quote then fair enough, but I still remain doubtful. Not like the TOS is some super elusive document anyway, browsing through it now I have yet to find anything even remotely similar to how I'm playing.

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Originally Posted by Wynn

But on a side note isn't this: a paradox of sorts? How can you play if you aren't engaged with it. To me that's not playing. It's just pushing buttons.

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Selecting standard synthesis over and over again is engaging somehow? Whether I'm looking at the screen or not makes no difference, it's all "just pushing buttons". Not to mention I know exactly what my button pressing is doing for me, so I'd argue that I am playing anyways. If a blind person kicked my ass at Street Fighter, I wouldn't say "You're not even playing, you're just pushing buttons!", whatever that even means.

What are you getting at anyway? I can't help get this "If you are gonna craft, then you NEED TO CRAFT PROPERLY LIKE ME, DAMN IT!" vibe from these responses.

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Originally Posted by Elkwood

Yeah this needs some clarification, I farm for a week to get my mats then do 1 mass craft run, I mean does this mean I can craft 40 synths then needs to craft 4-5 on another craft or is it like Mining Botany etc where I need to wait another day to do my gathering again, Devs please comment.

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My belief is it stands you up after so many, so you can't just tape the button down and go to bed anymore.

after a fairly short google search some bot have a very extensive feature list

take this one for example copypasta'd from their page

Memory Based - No Pixel Setup.
Ability to harvest/gather all types of nodes
Adjust your hotkeys depending on coneection
Set spells where ever you want on your hotbar.
Sse your spells how ever you want to use them.
Run a group of bots fighting and healing together!
Use potions,skills and spells while fleeing.
Ability to rest at a certain HP or MP or both
Ability to rest and wait for your pet to heal.
Use abilities when you get to a certain health.
Use abilities when you get to a certain Mana.
Heal your pet as you fight.
Ability to set close, ranged, or mix combat.
Kill counter
View your stats and mob stats at a glance
Swap weapons during a figh.
Set up heal bots to follow you around and heal.
Detects whether a mob is invulnerable.
Skip mobs that are not attackable.
Video help for setting up the bot and running.
UNDETECTED with anti-detection measures
Stationary or moving patrols/paths
Fight only the mobs you want to fight.
Smooth, Natural looking Navigation.
Does simple and complex Chain Moves.
Ability to use partial or exact mob names to fight.
Bugtracker to submit bugs and add feature request.
Detects is a player is following you around.
Bot detects other players around youand avoids.
You don't need to know how to program.
Choose what percent to heal at for each heal.
Buffs (Combat and Regular)!
Can Use MP and HP Potions!
Loots! And when bag is full, it will not stop the bot.
Bot will avoid Kill-Stealing
After Fight mode to heal up and rebuff as necessary
Pet support! Resummon, heal, and assist
Pptional Bot-Monitor window.
Character Settings are saved in profiles.
Create simple or complex paths.
Several attack modes including.
Variety of after-death options.
Quickly create paths with the Path-Recording.
Use paths with any profile.
Share paths and profiles with friends.
Sshare your Ability/Buff/Heal setup with friends.
Community already with many pre-made paths.
Loop your path as many times as you wish.
Data is updated very quickly after patches
Detects if you are stuck, and will signal an alarm
Detect multiple mobs and react to them accordingly
Avoid mobs and harvest items that are too high.


i really dont think a simple interruption in crafting is going to stop any of the bots
some of them are so complex i even think it would be difficult for a GM to assess.

square has no built in monitor for the .exe to throw up flags when the game memory is gooked or modified


square game security is in fact terribad


theres no cure

Is it one of those thread where people over-reacted on something they haven't experienced yet, and it ends up it's not so bad after trying it out ?

We shall know the answer soon.

If SE want to really stop bots they need to have code searching for these things.

SE [Please check it]

warden is so crapware. its worse than punkbuster

SE could take some notes on how to police their client from CCP games which does an awesome job at watching their clients and looking for bots

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Originally Posted by Sayam

While I may feel it is silly, it is in the ToS. The specific portion (at least as I read it):

...during the course of an absentee play investigation, players may be requested to respond to or comply with a GMs instruction. Failure to do so is consider a violation and may result in disciplinary action being taken against the account.

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Alright, thanks for the clarification, that is pretty solid evidence actually.

I'd still argue that what I do shouldn't be against TOS, but the method GM's would use that you've quoted here is probably the easiest way to uncover botters so I wouldn't consider it a good thing if they were to remove this from the ToS.

They can block it, but it's going to take a watchdog process or something that can intercept bot libraries being called to hook into the game. (Such as pcap loading to read the games network packets) It's not something that SE would want to develop on their own, they would have to buy this from a company that makes such software and include it.. although I'd probably support them doing something like this.

SE generally isn't very good with security if XI is any example.

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Originally Posted by Vassteel

warden is so crapware. its worse than punkbuster

SE could take some notes on how to police their client from CCP games which does an awesome job at watching their clients and looking for bots

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Better than what we got, which is nothing.

Besides its an example.

If you thinking botting is bad now, just wait til addons.

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Originally Posted by UmJammerSully

Selecting standard synthesis over and over again is engaging somehow? Whether I'm looking at the screen or not makes no difference, it's all "just pushing buttons". Not to mention I know exactly what my button pressing is doing for me, so I'd argue that I am playing anyways. If a blind person kicked my ass at Street Fighter, I wouldn't say "You're not even playing, you're just pushing buttons!", whatever that even means.

What are you getting at anyway? I can't help get this "If you are gonna craft, then you NEED TO CRAFT PROPERLY LIKE ME, DAMN IT!" vibe from these responses.

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On the bolded part, definitely nothing of the sort. I just found it to be a curiosity.

But I guess part of the viewpoint in this discussion does have to do largely with a person's crafting style. I mean, even now there is much more that you can do than just push standard the whole way. The problem is, and always has been, that you can get by using the path of least resistance pretty much 100% of the time. So why not just do that?

They designed this great crafting system on paper, thinking it was complex and robust, but they inadvertently overlooked the fact that it was all too easy to spam a single button and skip over everything else they tried to weave in. In the end, nobody but a few us really learned all the nuances of the system since there wasn't any foreseeable benefit to doing so.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Is it one of those thread where people over-reacted on something they haven't experienced yet, and it ends up it's not so bad after trying it out ?

We shall know the answer soon.

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I'm not so sure I see anyone over-reacting here. Then again, on these boards you can't say a word without someone accusing you of crying, complaining, arguing, trolling, etc..

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Originally Posted by Wynn

I'm not so sure I see anyone over-reacting here. Then again, on these boards you can't say a word without someone accusing you of crying, complaining, arguing, trolling, etc..

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GTFO troll

Actually I got an idea to stop this possibly.. I just don't know if windows can do it.

What if, when the game is patched the first thing it does after patch is prelink itself and randomizes it's memory address ranges. That way each client would have unique address ranges. This process can be done on Unix and Mac systems..

/hurray now shard prices will be back up to 400-500g a piece so you wont be wanting to do non stop crafting anyway :)

blah... speaking of crafting, I just threw away 400 seals by letting my engineer manual tick down while I flapped my gums here instead of synthing. Maybe I should of used a turbo controller. LOL

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Originally Posted by Thanos

That would work. But if I have to stand up every 5 synths Im gonna be highly irritated

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I remember standing up after each synth. Its actually hard to imagine going back to that now that I have gotten used to it this way.

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Originally Posted by Haru

/hurray now shard prices will be back up to 400-500g a piece so you wont be wanting to do non stop crafting anyway :)

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ok seriously, what?

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Originally Posted by Haru

/hurray now shard prices will be back up to 400-500g a piece so you wont be wanting to do non stop crafting anyway :)

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I don't see how this is going to increase shard prices...

Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Vassteel

you guys really have no clue as to how the bots even operate. most of the bots that are in use hook into and monitor the games memory address. the bots aren't as dumb as you think. its going to see that it will stand up or be interrupted. and it will just go back to crafting via the same processes that any player would. some of the bots in use are very complicated pieces of software.

so this change doses absolutely nothing to botters

bot always adapt. you can never get rid of them
any measures meant o punish bots dosent it just hurts the player

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Originally Posted by alienbaby

there are three types.
#1 are memory bots like a parser that read memory and turn it into info as it happens, writes use this to tell when the orb is unstable and when there is actions to do by name. The bot of this type would look like a person crafting and hitting their actions in the order they want.
This type has to be remapped every patch, no matter how small.
The second is a scrypt that will follow the same thing over and over in a loop. The writer sets up "if this, then do that, if not then do this" type of script. Using pixels on the active window to tell if the person is picking the ingredient or crafting, where it will only do the last action on the list where there is one.
This one only has to change when the game color or pixels change.

The last is also a script, but without any pixel finding, where it just hits enter over and over in that loop.
This one would stop working if the enter loop was not always in that order. Like before with the default being on requested...
SE made the change, SE fawked it up for noob scripters and turbos to take a quick easy lvl or 2

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yepo, i think i get it.

This is all SE's fault and started with Final Fantasy 1. You think I want to sit there and buy 99 potions? Hell no, I got a NES Advantage and put it on turbo, and then took a C Clamp and held that button down. Go eat some lunch and BAM 99 potions baby! :)

But as long as it's more than 20-30 synths as others have said it'll be OK. This won't affect leves either because the recipe will be different for each one. Now if you're sitting there turbo'ing 100 grind synths of the same thing then yes, this will affect you. But after the recipe changes it's actually more beneficial to me to do leves vs. grind synths. You have to make more items now since the yields are lower (ex linen yarn yield is 3 yarn per 6 flax now), and leves are free mats + shards/crystals. This won't hurt anyone who's legitimately crafting.