Dancer is a DPS

I'm honestly suprised by this but to be fair we only have 2 ranged melee and haven't gotten one since heavensward so....

Many months ago, Yoshi said that he wanted the next healer to be Chemist. As we are going to the first world, that means were NOT going to Garlemald. We wont get Chemist until we go there and thus, we get Tank / DPS. In the next expansion I predict that the healer will be Chemist and play like Mercy from Overwatch, some kind of shooting heals at people. That's all I would expect, no more jobs after this. Why? Because by adding new jobs and having to rebalance all of them every expansion is becoming too much of a burden on the team.

Soo, here are my prediction for the expansions:
2017 SB: mDPS / cDPS
2019 ShB: Tank / rmDPS, end of new races
2021 Garlemald?: Heal / END OF NEW JOBS - Yoshi starts to pull back from his current role and becomes the executive producer
2023 More dragons or go west?: game focuses on new content only or goes into maintenance mode

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Originally Posted by Syrehn

The 3rd one isn't even really like... anything new. It's just a mashup of SCH/WHM. :(

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It's almost like they designed themselves into a corner with healers or something.

As it always has been. The shocker here is that it's ranged.

The fact they didn't add a healer makes me even more angry that Gunbreaker is a tank and not a dps. Oh well.

As much as I was hoping for a healer, it looks pretty sweet as a ranged DPS. I'll most definitely be taking a shot at that job.

So 4 years of no new job for my main role?

Well there goes most of the interest I had in shadowbringers.

I had a feeling that dancer would be a dps. I had a hard time envisioning a dancing healer. But the fact that they didn't make a new healer class just screams to me how unimaginative the dev team is. What can't break the regen/shield dichotomy? I'm just salty.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

My favourite is how dancer was historically a damage dealing job and wasn't even a healer in XI except for how subjobs worked and complimented each other.

"BuT iT wAs a HeAlEr iN xI!"

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I played a DNC in XI. Even DNC wanted to sub DNC.
It was not a healer, but of course was very capable of being a healer and is actually a support class in most Final Fantasy games including XI.

Support in our 'XIV trinity' could have gone two ways, but people hoped for a new and exciting support healer. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out that way.

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Originally Posted by Mesarthim

So 4 years of no new job for my main role?

Well there goes most of the interest I had in shadowbringers.

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Wrong. It's 6 years!

Suddenly I don't feel like healing.

I don't mind dancer being a ranged. Sure, cool. If I do play dps, I prefer to be a ranged caster or ranged dps so guess that give me another option but.....I mean....you /need/ healers and you /need/ people to /want/ to play healers. They're a kinda critical part of this whole holy trinity thing. Not to mention that Astro isn't really its own thing. Its WHM and SCH with a bit of good showmanship thrown in to disguise the fact that half its moves are stolen. Then no healer in SB under the excuse of needing to work on balance. Healers also really didn't get much out of the new systems added. I'm looking at you WHM lilies. So what are we going to get in this new expansion to make it worth our while to wait an entire six-seven years for a new class to play and keep people in the role playing it? I can't think of anything that would feel like decent compensation. They could do a lot of reworking I guess but if they change existing ones too much, they'll tick off the people who love that class as it is. For example, I want a new healer. I do /not/ however want them to suddenly change the entire way WHM functions. So if not that then what? Some amazing new powers and abilities? Role mounts for healers? Frankly I don't think thats enough unless its god tier stuff at this point.

I am glad they made dancer a dps. I personally have been waiting for dancer to come to this game with the hope of it being a dps.

I wonder if they are consciously trying to alienate healers or just haven't been able to come up with an idea in 4 years

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I personally won't unsub because bar this the rest of the expansion appeals to me. I never change my character's race either so the race stuff doesn't bother me either.

That said, I am really disappointed. I feel kind of burned out on the current healers and wanted something that felt fresh and I didn't really find the battle system changes we get with an new expansion on the existing jobs really do that for me. I enjoy healing but it looks like I will have to look at the other roles if I want something that feels different as a choice of only three dishes gets old after several years.



Then maybe they shouldn't have added Dancer. Most of the people who seemed to hope for it seemed to hope it would be a healing class. Healers really needed something new.

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Their fault for getting their hopes up.

When I saw the dancer in the trailer I expected it to be a melee and share gear with nin. But throwing chakrams? I wouldn't have predicted that in a million years! I will say it's certainly a unique weapon choice and not one I'd have expected. I can't think of any other MMO that has a class that specializes in throwing weapons at things, spells yes, but not a physical throwing weapon as it's main form of attack.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

My favourite is how dancer was historically a damage dealing job and wasn't even a healer in XI except for how subjobs worked and complimented each other.

"BuT iT wAs a HeAlEr iN xI!"

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Issues on role choices are caused by individual players and how they chose to use various jobs. Much of it based on single player games which frequently had very little use for tank skills or dedicated healer classes. DNC was never a healer, it was a melee support in previous games which makes the jump to ranged dps a change. However in FFXI people chose to try using it as a healer because the 7000 people playing DPS jobs couldn't find a way to make an exp party work without a healer. They did the same thing to SMN as well for awhile.

Look at other jobs that were released in FFXIV

Many people upset that DRK was a Tank because the only things they chose to remember was the skills in previous games that basically made it self destruct to boost its damage temporarily. They forget that when not using self destructive skills it's usually one of the most durable jobs in the games that have it.

People upset that Gunbreaker was a Tank. Logic on this basically didn't go any further than its a gun with a sword blade so it does damage. Its like they didn't even look at the role of the users of the weapon in FFVIII when making their argument.

People saying SAM should have been a tank and not a DPS... I'm not in a mood to post a 17 page long wall of text explaining everything wrong with that train of thought.

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My favourite is how dancer was historically a damage dealing job

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Dancer has -never- been a dps role.


In After Years (if we really want to call Dance and Jive commands 'dancer') it was a random white magic spell on you or a random debuff on the enemy.

In 5 it was a support debuffer.

In 6 it was a support action set.

In 10.2 it was a debuffer.

In 12.RW it was group heals and enemy debuffs.

In Tactics it was a support debuffer.

In Tactics.A2 it was a support debuffer.

In dimensions it was a support debuffer.

In 11 it was a support class that used fast 1handers to power group heals (waltzes), group buffs (sambas), and debuffs (steps and flourishes).

Finally a DPS I want to play beside Tank and Healer for quick queues. I always level tank 1st then healer then DPS. But in 5.0 I may finally switch it up to DPS.

Pretty disappointed with this. I'll probably still play it, but it's beyond weak to go two entire expansion cycles without a new healer.

The release of Heavensward saw the best queue times we've had overall, at least for leveling up and main story quests, because they added a tank and a healer. This time it's just going to tip the adventurer in need bonus over to healer for a while.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Dancer has -never- been a dps role.


In After Years (if we really want to call Dance and Jive commands 'dancer') it was a random white magic spell on you or a random debuff on the enemy.

In 5 it was a support debuffer.

In 6 it was a support action set.

In 10.2 it was a debuffer.

In 12.RW it was group heals and enemy debuffs.

In Tactics it was a support debuffer.

In Tactics.A2 it was a support debuffer.

In dimensions it was a support debuffer.

In 11 it was a support class that used fast 1handers to power group heals (waltzes), group buffs (sambas), and debuffs (steps and flourishes).

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So not true in xi I played dnc as a dps never as a healer support. Maybe some people played it as as healer support but in 11 dnc could be played as a healer a dps or a tank depending on the skills you used.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Issues on role choices are caused by individual players and how they chose to use various jobs. Much of it based on single player games which frequently had very little use for tank skills or dedicated healer classes. DNC was never a healer, it was a melee support in previous games which makes the jump to ranged dps a change. However in FFXI people chose to try using it as a healer because the 7000 people playing DPS jobs couldn't find a way to make an exp party work without a healer. They did the same thing to SMN as well for awhile.

Look at other jobs that were released in FFXIV

Many people upset that DRK was a Tank because the only things they chose to remember was the skills in previous games that basically made it self destruct to boost its damage temporarily. They forget that when not using self destructive skills it's usually one of the most durable jobs in the games that have it.

People upset that Gunbreaker was a Tank. Logic on this basically didn't go any further than its a gun with a sword blade so it does damage. Its like they didn't even look at the role of the users of the weapon in FFVIII when making their argument.

People saying SAM should have been a tank and not a DPS... I'm not in a mood to post a 17 page long wall of text explaining everything wrong with that train of thought.

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Basically it boils down to people wanting XIV to be a sequel to XI despite probably never playing XI and also ignoring iterations of jobs from previous titles because they probably never played those titles either.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.

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I agree on that..my day is literally ruined and my excitement for the expansion has taken quite a big blow..

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Their fault for getting their hopes up.

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Then, as I said, maybe they shouldn't have added dancer. This leaves people who player the healing role rather under serviced and that is an issue.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Then, as I said, maybe they shouldn't have added dancer. This leaves people who player the healing role rather under serviced and that is an issue.

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I wish they hadn't added Gunbreaker and had added another Tank.

I'm one of those people that go where the job is, regardless of role, but I do tend to lean towards healing and tanking. I'll DPS if it means playing dancer but not gonna lie, I was still a bit disappointed with its role assignment. It just feels like there's something so... Idk, so blasé about yet another damage-dealing job that throws its weapons and has some support abilities. This is just my gut feeling, mind you. Its gimmick hasn't fully been revealed yet so we'll see. Just not too excited about it for the time being.

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Originally Posted by Barraind

Dancer has -never- been a dps role.


In After Years (if we really want to call Dance and Jive commands 'dancer') it was a random white magic spell on you or a random debuff on the enemy.

In 5 it was a support debuffer.

In 6 it was a support action set.

In 10.2 it was a debuffer.

In 12.RW it was group heals and enemy debuffs.

In Tactics it was a support debuffer.

In Tactics.A2 it was a support debuffer.

In dimensions it was a support debuffer.

In 11 it was a support class that used fast 1handers to power group heals (waltzes), group buffs (sambas), and debuffs (steps and flourishes).

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Literally no one who used Dancer in V used it for anything other than Sword Dance because it would ignore the auto-flee that came with Chicken Knife and cut down anything until you got 4x Attack on enough people to eclipse Sword Dance.

VI was basically Geomancer, but Mog sucked anyways.

X-2 and Revenant Wings are basically the only titles where Dancer or Songstress in the case of X-2 didn't have large damage dealing capacity. Hell, in X-2 it couldn't even attack unless the character was inflicted with Berserk.

In Tactics it was basically a high damage output job because it required high Bravery to function properly. A group of Dancers could cut down most enemies due to their longer than any other unit in the game range and sustained damage output.

Penelo had debuffs, but because she honestly sucked at the start until level her with other jobs, Sword Dance would wreck most anything barring Reaction Commands or Brightmoon Tor mobs at melee and Mincing Minuet for long range AOE damage.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Their fault for getting their hopes up.

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You'd get your hopes up too if your role was deprived of anything new for nearly a decade.

Edit: Would five years be considered nearly a decade? Or maybe it's been four years..either way. It's been way too long. It's now two expansions with nothing for healers.

I expect to see some Shun Shangxiang cosplay from the Dancer Job now.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20121114005622

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Then, as I said, maybe they shouldn't have added dancer. This leaves people who player the healing role rather under serviced and that is an issue.

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They shouldn't have added a job because people got their hopes up through no fault of the devs?

I'll give you props because you basically got me caping for the devs, but oof.

Still holding onto my hopes of Geomancer healer after the Gaia/Hammer reveal. *fingers crossed*

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

You'd get your hopes up too if your role was deprived of anything new for nearly a decade.

Edit: Would give years be considered nearly a decade? Or maybe it's been four years..either way. It's been way too long. It's now two expansions with nothing for healers.

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Consider looking into stoicism.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Still holding onto my hopes of Geomancer healer after the Gaia/Hammer reveal. *fingers crossed*

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Sorry but given the AST quests from 60-70... GEO is the worst thing we could get IMO. Literally just "AST but with power coming from the ground not the sky". Now if we get Cleric or Chemist, I'd be kinda OK with those (still bummed about DNC being a DPS, but I'd be able to swallow it)... but I'd rather they added no healer job than gave us GEO. That would feel like the ultimate kick in the teeth.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

They shouldn't have added a job because people got their hopes up through no fault of the devs?

I'll give you props because you basically got me caping for the devs, but oof.

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Get their hopes up? You make it sound like healers should feel lucky to be allowed to play at all along side their dps and tank betters.

Healer players had a perfectly reasonable expectation that they would get something new. They were told in 4.0 that they would get something new later once they had figured out balancing. Yoshi P at the time outright made a point of addressing that because he knew those players would be upset. Healers and Tanks showed patience then so it is perfectly understandable for them to be frustrated now when clearly they haven't been serviced.

DNC is more like RIP MCH.

DNC will do slashing damage due to chakrams/throwing weapons.

MCH doesn't give any good buffs.

Unless they buff MCH dps significantly they will not see the light of day.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Then, as I said, maybe they shouldn't have added dancer. This leaves people who player the healing role rather under serviced and that is an issue.

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Ignoring ranged physical DPS having the second lowest of choices. Ignoring dexterity based melee being double ignored as it's still being locked to one choice. Ignoring blunt damage in general as monk is still the ONLY one to benefit from blunt resistance down. Unless dancer turns out to do blunt damage, which would be a pleasant surprise, in my opinion.

A small part of me would even argue that ranged physical DPS are the lowest of choices players pick up. Ever had to find a replacement for ranged physical DPS? It's an actual nightmare. Even tanks are easier to replace.

/opinions

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Get their hopes up? You make it sound like healers should feel lucky to be allowed to play at all along side their dps and tank betters.

Healer players had a perfectly reasonable expectation that they would get something new. They were told in 4.0 that they would get something new later once they had figured out balancing. Yoshi P at the time outright made a point of addressing that because he knew those players would be upset. Healers and Tanks showed patience then so it is perfectly understandable for them to be frustrated now when clearly they haven't been serviced.

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Resonable expectations like "Dancer will most likely be a healer," or "Dancer will definitely be a healer," talking in absolutes with no foundation.

Like I said earlier, consider looking into stoicism 'cause ya'll are wildin'.

Or look into xanax, that requires less reading.

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In Tactics it was basically a high damage output job because it required high Bravery to function properly. A group of Dancers could cut down most enemies due to their longer than any other unit in the game range and sustained damage output.

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Eh, I mostly found dancer to be pretty terrible outside the female only gear options. Could you sit back and mincedance stuff to death? Maaaaybe? But thats competing with Draw, *knight, DW Barefist and Ninja for non-math damage. Dancer as a body was among the worst in base stats, though it did work as a secondary for certain speed ranges (nothing says '@#$%' like having your turns hit before your dance fired!).

To be fair a lot of things that could have been viable options just get wrecked by Special Base classes (even the bad ones just kinda got stupid), teleport draw and 2 bare fists.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Ignoring ranged physical DPS having the second lowest of choices. Ignoring dexterity based melee being double ignored as it's still being locked to one choice. Ignoring blunt damage in general as monk is still the ONLY one to benefit from blunt resistance down.

A small part of me would even argue that ranged physical DPS are the lowest of choices players pick up. Ever had to find a replacement for ranged physical DPS? It's an actual nightmare. Even tanks are easier to replace.

/opinions

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You ever look for a MCH? I sure haven't, but you have better odds of seeing the Loch Ness Monster than a MCH.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

You ever look for a MCH? I sure haven't, but you have better odds of seeing the Loch Ness Monster than a MCH.

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I probably have a higher chance of actually winning the powerball. Machinist basically don't exist.