OH GOD NO...

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

To the first bit, there are logograms that only come from heated lockboxes and those only come with chaining some specific things that I don't remember because I said lol nope not doing that back when I was starting Pyros. Those are the ones I bought, and a couple others I just had some bad luck with. Probably wouldn't have been necessary but I wanted all 50 skills in case that somehow mattered in the future because you never know.

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Those are the mitigative ones lol. Which some figured out you can get a lot of them very easily from sprites at level 45 I believe. And that's why they easily farmed them and sold them on MB (also why they're much cheaper then offensive).

It’s ok .. if players want to have Eureka.. hey let them have it, no issues here. PLEASE don’t put RELIC behind it.. go back see what made relic enjoyable for players.. hey check why do many of us still 50 level or 60 level relics instead of this last “instalment” (i want to give harder vernaculum but I can’t as I have been banned before

To me, Eureka wasn't the problem, it trying to emulate some of the worst (IMO) aspects of older MMO's was, it could be a grind and long thing you do without being as punishing like de-leveling you and making it so you can't mount or get anywhere safely. If it was more solo friendly like it sets you a long list of things for your relic to do in the zone that you could comfortably but slowly do alone while giving you the option to team up to make it easier and faster while also having fates and other things going on, on the map to do for loot and glamour. They could even keep light and loot boxes if everything drops at least one token that you could use to buy any glamour, items or relic stuff so that even if RNG fails you, you'd always feel like you'tr progressing with every activity you did.
It would also make getting the relic and other things from it doable once the content has been abandoned, something the 4.0 Eureka is going to struggle heavily with without serious adjustments.

Just don't unlock it? Its really easy ignore it like its not there, and when people are shouting out for help with it, then physically can't participate because it's content is linear.
I always tell them, have fun with that.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

Eureka is why I didn't have a relic in SB. And the lack of a good weapon eventually made me fall behind in the gearing process and quit playing for a while, falling behind even further. I'm feeling very, very conflicted about this next expansion. There's a lot of interesting stuff, but also a lot of... well... this.

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Eureka is why I DO have a relic in SB, never having completed one previously because I hate dungeons and raids. It makes me very happy to see SE designing content that caters for different kinds of players. I love that there are multiple ways to cap tomes now without going anywhere near a dungeon. In fact if they announced no more dungeons ever, I'd be thrilled. Of course that's not going to happen, and I wouldn't dream of jumping on the forums and demanding it. So please don't demand that content you don't enjoy is removed, because you can be sure there are people who do enjoy it

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Originally Posted by Merryl

Just don't unlock it? Its really easy ignore it like its not there, and when people are shouting out for help with it, then physically can't participate because it's content is linear.
I always tell them, have fun with that.

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There's only so much "optional" content you can ignore before you start to wonder why you're even subbed. There's no question that a ton of development resources went into Eureka, and it's always disheartening to see development time wasted on something you don't enjoy.

A lot of people say the same thing about PVP, but there's a big difference between adding 1 map every year or so, along with a handful of new items, and creating four fully realized (essentially) open-world zones with a new leveling progression system, full on story cutscenes, new enemy models etc etc etc.

PVP is niche content, and the development given to it reflects that.
Eureka is niche content, but it's given the development resources of the main game.

Also, even though I think having content where the preferred method of progression is to sit afk in town is real dumb, if I started the eureka tiers with mounts and aetherytes, I wouldn't loathe the content as much as I do. I would still think it's bad but it would slide into the acceptable range of mediocre that a lot of mmo content kind of sits in.

Oh god no. When Pagos first relased, after a few days of non-stop grinding I stopped. Barely any progress for too much work, no enjoyment, no anything I was getting.

Eureka was by far the ONLY content in this whole game I'm never going back too. Never. It's been 7 months but I don't support it. No way. Especially as it feels that the dev team is incredibly out of touch with how people feel towards it.

I'm never doing it again, ever. For me to even look at it it has to be near perfect.

I enjoy Eureka aside from a bit of the RNG as I really haven't gotten anything good from boxes since Anemos. Also doesn't bother me that the relic progress was linked to it. The only steps really that I didn't care for in relic progression in general was the light farming steps. It literally to me just felt like filler episodes in tv shows/anime.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Koji: "We are currently working on developing Eureka like content for 5.0"

Please no... stop... no more Eureka... ever... please...

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yes lets go back to atma farming 2.0 and savage farming 3.0 repeating old content again and again. Let's take out successful content people enjoy and ignore that 50% more players are actually getting the relics now vs the 10% before. This is why SE ignores the west: bad idea is just bad. It's not even an idea or feedback, just crying with no merit. That's the vocal minority for you.

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Originally Posted by Beckett

In 5 years of playing this game, after a cash shop being added, housing being utterly screwed up, and all sorts of other minor issues, this is the first thing that has legitimately made me consider unsubbing. I don't want to play a game that insists on diverting resources to something that the players very vocally do not want!

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WE DO WANT IT. Just the vocal minority doesn't. The forums only make up about 2% of the population. Gotta remember that so just because you have big numbers on the forums doesnt mean that the vast majority doesnt want it. If you want to unsub because of things you dont personally like then by all means; go somewhere that makes you happy. The exit is thataway -->

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Originally Posted by Rokke

I'm fine with Eureka continuing as long as it wont hold relics/dyeable AF gear hostage again. Cause that was crap.

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no, we want the relic in eureka because its now more than a weapon, it has a back story beyond grinding old content. When i look at my weapon it has meaning and memories and not just atma grind. Memories in pagos jumping off the cliff walking past dragons, Zuzu farming and laughing at the good times when instance hopping looking for it. Naked and reflect farming. All those things is what makes it fun. 2.0/3.0 doesnt have any fond memories at all because less than 10% of the player base even did it. Now we increased it by at least 50%.

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Originally Posted by guardin

yes lets go back to atma farming 2.0 and savage farming 3.0 repeating old content again and again. Let's take out successful content people enjoy and ignore that 50% more players are actually getting the relics now vs the 10% before. This is why SE ignores the west: bad idea is just bad. It's not even an idea or feedback, just crying with no merit. That's the vocal minority for you.

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Lol you have literally no idea what anybody wants and I still see way more 2.0 and 3.0 relics than anima ones. Anecdotal evidence is for chumps.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Lol you have literally no idea what anybody wants and I still see way more 2.0 and 3.0 relics than anima ones. Anecdotal evidence is for chumps.

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We've also had 6 years to work on Zodiac weapons and 4 years to work on Anima weapons, versus 1 1/2 for Eurekan/Elemental weapons.

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Originally Posted by guardin

it has a back story ... When i look at my [Eureka] weapon it has meaning and memories

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It's really funny you say that, because for the ARR relics the whole thing was about the weapons and where they came from. They started as relic weapons, then moved to Zodiak weapons, all of which had lore and story and meaning within the game. Later storylines interact with those stories, like how the BLM relic weapon story gets a twist in the SB job quests.
The Anima weapon was about you growing a sentient weapon and fighting so it can grow and evolve with you overseeing its progress.
The Eureka weapons used the AF3 sets, which did have lore and meaning, and completely ignored them.

I get you like this sort of content more but what you said is factually incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Lol you have literally no idea what anybody wants and I still see way more 2.0 and 3.0 relics than anima ones. Anecdotal evidence is for chumps.

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Sounds like you're basing off current counts which wouldn't be accurate.

You see more 2.0 and 3.0 relics now for 2 reasons.

1. The content has been out longer.

2. The process for 2.0 and 3.0 relics has been nerfed to the point of being trivial at best.

The comparison that will need to be made is completed relic counts of 2.0 weapons before HW, 3.0 relic counts before SB, and completed 4.0 relics before shadowbringers releases.

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Originally Posted by guardin

no, we want the relic in eureka because its now more than a weapon, it has a back story beyond grinding old content. When i look at my weapon it has meaning and memories and not just atma grind. Memories in pagos jumping off the cliff walking past dragons, Zuzu farming and laughing at the good times when instance hopping looking for it. Naked and reflect farming. All those things is what makes it fun. 2.0/3.0 doesnt have any fond memories at all because less than 10% of the player base even did it. Now we increased it by at least 50%.

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Yes, I can't wait to tell the story of my Pagos weapons, forged in the foothills running between two dragon spawns, killing them for hours on end until I was able to form enough crystals to complete a weapon. Or how I spent countless hours farming more light for crystals spent on a dice roll to determine the stats of my weapon.

The ARR and HW relics actually had some lore and background to them and felt far less like " Krile and Gerolt's Excellent Adventures in Grinding".

I'd rather them cease making relic weapons period than have another one held hostage by Eureka 2.0.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Sounds like you're basing off current counts which wouldn't be accurate.

You see more 2.0 and 3.0 relics now for 2 reasons.

1. The content has been out longer.

2. The process for 2.0 and 3.0 relics has been nerfed to the point of being trivial at best.

The comparison that will need to be made is completed relic counts of 2.0 weapons before HW, 3.0 relic counts before SB, and completed 4.0 relics before shadowbringers releases.

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They said more people have their eureka weapons. If they did there would be more of them out in the wild. None of what you said changes that BUT MORE TO THE POINT it's a statement that anecdotal evidence is useless. They say more people have the eureka relics with literally 0 basis for that. My anecdotal evidence, which is just as baseless, counters theirs out.

I think eureka content is alright, however I did start doing stuff in it only recently after they've been nerfed to hell and back.
It definitely has its place, but dear god don't let pagos happen again.

Sometimes it's nice to just waste some time with a mindless grind after work.
I'd like to see a little less reliance on following the train though, and not by making it worse than grinding, but by making grinding a better option.

I enjoyed Eureka a great deal, well everything after pagos. I personally welcome more of it.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Sounds like you're basing off current counts which wouldn't be accurate.

You see more 2.0 and 3.0 relics now for 2 reasons.

1. The content has been out longer.

2. The process for 2.0 and 3.0 relics has been nerfed to the point of being trivial at best.

The comparison that will need to be made is completed relic counts of 2.0 weapons before HW, 3.0 relic counts before SB, and completed 4.0 relics before shadowbringers releases.

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Makes sense. My question though, which will have to remain to be seen, is players still go after their ARR and HW relics, and will continue to do so next expansion; what I'm curious about is how many will go after SB relics once ShB is out? Will they even be able to?

Roulettes have been a standard and great way to keep players in older content, plus it helps new players get through the MSQ and NM raids. On top of that you can also progress your older relics this way. What's going to keep Eureka relevant come 5.0?

Eureka: hurry up and wait, pull "notorious monster" number 55,200...listen to obnoxious chat from bored people, go in circles in a map smaller than most major cities, stay there for hours, rinse, repeat, follow rabbits around the little map, rinse, repeat, kill mobs over and over and over and over again...lizard tails, pagos spring water, "logos" oh boy! Logograms! gotta catch em all. That's Eureka...blarg.

Eureka is not perfect and could have a lot of improvements to make it more engaging and fun, but I'd take it over Atma fate grinding+dungeons any day. Atma was the reason I never bothered with relics before (and now have 3 Eurekan relics), just the same way people didn't bother with relic in SB due to Eureka, ironically.

Eureka is awful.

I get that my opinion is not the only one but Stormblood's later half ended up being a bust for me because so much dev time and resources were spent on Eureka and I couldn't finish the relic because they tied it to Eureka and as I said before... Eureka is awful.

If Eureka style content is continuing going forward my time with FFXIV may well be at an end.

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Originally Posted by guardin

no, we want the relic in eureka because its now more than a weapon, it has a back story beyond grinding old content. When i look at my weapon it has meaning and memories and not just atma grind. Memories in pagos jumping off the cliff walking past dragons, Zuzu farming and laughing at the good times when instance hopping looking for it. Naked and reflect farming. All those things is what makes it fun. 2.0/3.0 doesnt have any fond memories at all because less than 10% of the player base even did it. Now we increased it by at least 50%.

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I can pull numbers out of thin air too look:

300% of the overall population are brunette suncats with one blue eye and one red eye ! Wow !

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

They said more people have their eureka weapons. If they did there would be more of them out in the wild. None of what you said changes that BUT MORE TO THE POINT it's a statement that anecdotal evidence is useless. They say more people have the eureka relics with literally 0 basis for that. My anecdotal evidence, which is just as baseless, counters theirs out.

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Which stage of the relic though? I despised Eureka and never got past Anemos but even I have the first relic stage. I'm willing to bet people with relics past Anemos are far fewer.

Yes pls nomore eureka we need real content!

Killing HP sponges to spawn a fate isn't exactly revolutionary gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Nicodemus_Mercy

Which stage of the relic though? I despised Eureka and never got past Anemos but even I have the first relic stage. I'm willing to bet people with relics past Anemos are far fewer.

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Probably fewer, but more are catching up thanks to the nerfs and those interested to see how Hydatos ends up and to complete the weapons and get the glowy gear. Hell, I'm even interested in trying the Arsenal just to get my ass handed back to me by Absolute Virtue.

at the end of the day some like it some don't for me i do not mind it gives me stuff to do and it is fun working with others for one common goal

Just here to voice my opinion that I did not enjoy Eureka and abandoned it once Pagos released and no amount of patching would ever get me back in there. I can respect that some people enjoy it, which is fine. But I would like to issue a plea to SE to absolutely 100% do NOT put the relics in any walled off instanced content ever again. Hands down one of the worst decisions they ever made and we all know that it was done to drive people into the content, because honestly, very few would have stuck with it if it weren't for the fact it was the sole route to a relic.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I'm afraid I do not have a time stamp for this. Koji said it when translating Yoshida at the Q and A panel in the European Fan Festival this morning. (Being the morning of 2/3/19 in the US.)

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Thanks for looking but I managed to find it myself https://www.twitch.tv/videos/374470999?t=03h26m50s

Well this definitely makes me not wanna bother with shbring at all: this is just more wasted resourced into content that's gonna be terrible anyway. Too bad.

Well that's another relic I won't be getting. If I wanted to play EQ, I would go back to that game. MMOs have moved on from mindless mob grinding, bad level design that restricts exploration, and punishments for exploration like de-leveling. It the path SE wants to go is adding more forced group content based on outdated ideas, I'll just find a game that gives me more flexibility in how I play and follows modern standards.

Sweet. The legend continues. Can’t wait for Hydratos and see what they do in 5.0!

I think Eureka has potential. The 4.x implementation was bad, but if they can do more with it beyond mindless mob grinding or mindless fate grinding, it could be worth it. The chaining mobs just doesn't work in this game. Too many constant key presses to keep the chain going, leads to carpel tunnel and such. Doing that in this game just isn't fun.

actually the overall concept of eureka is a great idea, can you imagine going through a huge interconnected maze based on old ruins like gelmorra or the red labyrinth, or visiting some of the cave systems beneath coerthas, or the destroyed portion of gridania, all the lore that could be packed into there and interesting twists on systems theyve now had time and feedback to make feasible

think a eureka where you progress from the catacombs and wine cellar to the snowfly forest and one half of the city, to the other half with the grand temple, and finally ending up going into the iron maiden, all with various grimoires you find through the entire journey giving you abilities and new ways of traversing obstacles

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Originally Posted by Astarotha

think a eureka where you progress from the catacombs and wine cellar to the snowfly forest and one half of the city, to the other half with the grand temple, and finally ending up going into the iron maiden, all with various grimoires you find through the entire journey giving you abilities and new ways of traversing obstacles

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Did you just sell me on Eureka? Oh, Vagrant Story...
It was a failed experiment (in my opinion) but coming from someone excited about it prior to release, I can understand what COULD be fun about it. That just doesn't really exist to me, right now. That awesome Lea Monde crawl you mentioned sounds more like a Palace of the Dead thing. But maybe that's not such a bad thing, to mix Eureka and Palace of the Dead a little bit.
In any case, I veto 4.x Eureka happening again, but I would be...tentatively interested if they take whatever inspiration they had and put it in a very different direction than a sea of meaningless monsters clustered together to spawn more meaningless monsters except in a big fat blob of collective player mass.

While I truly had a blast with Eureka I can see how it is not for everyone, I think in the future they should just offer different methods of obtaining relic weapons.

At the very least, if Eureka-style content must go forward with the relic, then an alternative method of getting the relic outside of it would go a long way towards cutting down on my animosity towards Eureka. But with how much time and effort is devoted to Eureka-style content, I will still be put off regarding future expansions, because I am getting less value for my dollar and time. So many resources being devoted to Eureka in Stormblood left me with a dearth of content I wanted to engage in.

Oh god YES!! Whoohoo! New and improved im all for it!