Are the numbers too high?

-insert generic dev. post that says issues like this will be reassessed come 2.0- Non-generic answer to this would be nice.

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

-insert generic dev. post that says issues like this will be reassessed come 2.0- Non-generic answer to this would be nice.

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I don't think there is a Dev response coming though...
All the gear stats and the formulae were just redone
I think we'd see a "Working as intended" post

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I don't think there is a Dev response coming though...
All the gear stats and the formulae were just redone
I think we'd see a "Working as intended" post

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It would at least be a "Working as intended, however we will continue to monitor feedback." post. :]

I hope.

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Originally Posted by Mychael

It would at least be a "Working as intended, however we will continue to monitor feedback." post. :]

I hope.

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True....
I'd like to see a post from someone responsible for the formulae... maybe not giving exact numbers.... but the reasoning or theories that explain why Base stats completely trump all gear

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Originally Posted by Rydin

True....
I'd like to see a post from someone responsible for the formulae... maybe not giving exact numbers.... but the reasoning or theories that explain why Base stats completely trump all gear

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Agreed, think the community devs are strike :P, not seen em post in days.

Long thread so I only skimmed but I don't think anyone brought up the fact that stats in old games capped at 255 because hexadecimal values only go up to that (er.. its either 255 or 256) and keeping values in that range saves space since its only 1 value the game has to store... or something like that. It wasn't any kind of conscious design decision by them at all besides the fact that they wanted to save space.

Anyways, the numbers we have now are fine. When we get into Disgaea stats is when we should start worrying.

By PSX releases (FFVII onward), space saving hex values weren't needed anymore

This thread had a lot of numbers in it... and we debate those back and forth
But the core of the issue is mental... its philosophy
a few questions sum it all up

1. Do people prefer seeing bigger numbers?
i.e MOB A has a million hit points and you hit him for 9999 per swing
MOB B has 10k hit points and you hit him for 100 per swing
Exact same end result but do people see bigger numbers and feel greater satisfaction because of it?

2. A question of Balance. Should the people who have tons of time and opportunity to get the very best gear have a significant advantage over those who cant... a slight advantage or a hardly noticeable advantage?
Thats a huge loaded question. People start talking about casual vs hardcore.. Elitist attitudes... gear snobs...

If I said I had the absolute, be-all-end-all answer to that question then I would be the most pretentious douche ever
There really is no right answer. How much should gear help you? What should it be worth?
I have my preference but I am in no way right or wrong... Thats what "preference" means.
I personally feel that the harder something is to obtain... the more it should reward you
Then you get into the question of "What is harder... getting to 50 or getting the best gear?"

6 million people bought Final Fantasy XIII.... are we saying only the people with serious amounts of time on their hands should get to enjoy this game? At that point you alienate a very LARGE part of the population. But without long term goals and big rewards, It is hard to keep people interested

Should the hardcore players (And ultimately, their achievements) be the carrot on a stick that keeps the casual players logging in every week?

A the end of the day... all I can really say is what I prefer...
I am NOT saying stats are broken... I am NOT saying the formulae are incorrect or even poorly done.

What I AM saying is I would prefer if gear played a larger role in how powerful or effective we are in battle.
No percentages.... no examples.... just straight theory...
Thats what this is....
Sure... Kaeko... yea.. we don't understand all of the formulae
But you don't have to understand it all to recognize that you prefer a change
If the weathered Spear did the EXACT same damage as the Ifrit Harpoon on EVERY MOB no matter what.... Even without fully understanding the formula... you'd recognize that this doesn't seem ideal.

I don't need to know the entire formula to know that I want to notice a difference when I equip different pieces of gear...

Yes it is preference but I want to see a difference between wearing an Ifrit Harpoon and Cobalt chain stuff vs an Ifrit Harpoon and Mythril Chain stuff. I want to be able to see the difference... even with a cursory glance

But in the end.. I speak for no one but myself

Well after melding all my gear and double-melding some pieces i have definitely noticed a difference in my character's abilities. Grinding company leves on my CNJ with my current gear versus my old gear, I don't pay attention to the numbers but it takes 3 nukes to kill something vs. 4 or 5 like it used to, and it doesn't seem to be much but it does add up and is MP saved over time. After I finished melding my Archer gear I noticed myself clearing the bonus conditions for the "kill race" leves (killing 4 of each enemy instead of 2) with 2-3 minutes to spare on average whereas before I was constantly cutting it close with 30 seconds on the clock or so.

It just feels like improving your gear is more incremental instead of huge jumps, which is how it should work imo.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Well after melding all my gear and double-melding some pieces i have definitely noticed a difference in my character's abilities. Grinding company leves on my CNJ with my current gear versus my old gear, I don't pay attention to the numbers but it takes 3 nukes to kill something vs. 4 or 5 like it used to, and it doesn't seem to be much but it does add up and is MP saved over time. After I finished melding my Archer gear I noticed myself clearing the bonus conditions for the "kill race" leves (killing 4 of each enemy instead of 2) with 2-3 minutes to spare on average whereas before I was constantly cutting it close with 30 seconds on the clock or so.

It just feels like improving your gear is more incremental instead of huge jumps, which is how it should work imo.

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And thats the feeling I want... to just feel like I'm doing more damage when I upgrade and it not be a placebo effect
Let me ask you this, though
Could shaving 2 minutes off your time possibly be that you're getting better (And not your stats)? or just pure luck?

At the same time, the stat numbers are comparible to the damage done/received/HP of you/mobs. doing 9999 dmg on FF games is pretty common and I like that this game is trying that out. Or maybe I'm just a numbers junkie.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

And thats the feeling I want... to just feel like I'm doing more damage when I upgrade and it not be a placebo effect
Let me ask you this, though
Could shaving 2 minutes off your time possibly be that you're getting better (And not your stats)? or just pure luck?

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Sometimes it's pure luck (its rare but sometimes the game just will not pop that last enemy you need) but I have done a lot of these guildleves before melding materia and after melding my materia, and on average I got much faster so it isn't just me getting better. Especially with CNJ since there really isn't much to manaburning. Kaeko has posted in this thread already and he's always tested out stats and stuff and there have already been tons of tests done with results that yes, stats do work now, so there are numbers to back it up.

No matter what everyone says, I keep getting stuck on the fact that I can breeze through all the endgame content just as well in my underwear as I can in "top end" gear. With little difference in the experience.

I mean, we can talk about stats, there effects, and workings untill we are blue in the face. The fact that Fully geared, or naked, makes minimul difference.

What about FFXIII

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Originally Posted by Riv

What about FFXIII

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Peter Griffin: Lois, How did you lose your job at FOX news?

Lois Griffin: Does it matter? I mean does anyone really care?

Peter Griffin: You're right... well... good nite folks

edit: no, but seriously FFXIII, just like FFX, deviates so far from the norm that its hard to even make comparisons

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Long thread so I only skimmed but I don't think anyone brought up the fact that stats in old games capped at 255 because hexadecimal values only go up to that (er.. its either 255 or 256)

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its 256 numbers, but 0 is one of them so it goes to 255 or 2^8.


As far as "nakid" ifrits, I don't believe anyone has beat it fully nakid with L1 weapons... everyone just uses top end weapons which are worth ~85% of the damage you output since 1 DMG on the weapon is worth some ridiculous amount of atk.

Also FFXI was also a gradual increase per gear item, it never felt like you were oh so much better with one of the uber gear items; but rather just marginally better.

TBH gear upgrades in FFXIV feel like more of a "jump" in damage than FFXI's ever did. Also if you want to feel like you jump up in damage with every upgrade we'll be doing 20,000 damage a hit in a year or so like WoW which isn't exactly what you want I think I got out of the thread?

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Originally Posted by Jinko

State the obvious much ?

I think we are all aware that a higher number = a higher value.

The problem is that a naked group shouldn't in theory be able to kill Ifrit, the system is broken.

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Stats are not the reason People can beat Ifrit naked its the fact Ifrit does no physical attacks and everyone has the same amount fire resist so everyone takes the same dmg regardless, honestly tired of telling ppl this. On the other hand you still see an a bigger dmg increase when you max out both of your attack stats for your class like for pgl Str and Int.

seriously, I know this game is a lot more casual than XI but I feel like a fscking moron when stats gives this much leeway

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stats are not the reason People can beat Ifrit naked its the fact Ifrit does no physical attacks and everyone has the same amount fire resist so everyone takes the same dmg regardless, honestly tired of telling ppl this. On the other hand you still see an a bigger dmg increase when you max out both of your attack stats for your class like for pgl Str and Int.

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Finally someone pointed it out.. In fact most of the people are fighting Ifrit "Naked"..
Well.. They're fully prepared for Phase 1 though!

Fire Resistance is truely the stat you want in an Ifrit fight, with a CNJ's protect or enough of the stat on your own.
Stoneskins casted by non CNJs will prevent being knocked back by Vulcan..
This is when melee classes can rush in and perform a full combo without worrying getting locked in the next special move by iMob.

And I always wanted a melee group with people fighting like this, while people are charging in for full combos, CNJ casts another AoE heal or Stoneskin to protect the entire DD + Tank..
Comparing the finish time with THM stacking like this would be fun, at least to me :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stats are not the reason People can beat Ifrit naked its the fact Ifrit does no physical attacks and everyone has the same amount fire resist so everyone takes the same dmg regardless, honestly tired of telling ppl this. On the other hand you still see an a bigger dmg increase when you max out both of your attack stats for your class like for pgl Str and Int.

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Yes but elemental resistance is part of the base stats, which is the problem we are discussing.

If they reduced those stats and put them on gear you would no longer beable to kill him naked.

Both gear and materia would become much more useful and situational, win win.

It makes sense that if you are going to fight a big fiery boss you put on your fire resistance gear.

To everyone who says gear does not matter when we get the 2 new instanced raids in 1.21 come back in this thread and post your results. Expect groups of lower rank 50 mobs to swarm and CC playing a major role. The stats matter a whole lot more when you remove the dlvl from the equation. Complaining about stats on Ifrit is useless compare stats on similarly ranked mobs and everything changes.

I do think stats need to be adjusted and they already said they are working on this now and it will continue at least in 1.21~1.22 as they balance them with new jobs. One thing to provide an instant impact on how the community views stats would be to remove the party bonus to accuracy/magic accuracy. w/o that bonus those stats and the gains from materia are EXTREMELY effective.

examples of how stats are working now:
Evasion build on R50 mobs, go on pug and then crank up your evasion by 100~150 and watch your evasion rates skyrocket.

Magic accuracy build on lvl 60+ mob watch magic accuracy rates

Defense build on low~mid R50's

Magic attack/lightning build on appropriate lvl mob

Main thing I want them to fix is the overpower of Damage rating on mele weapons, if this was toned down a bit or if damage could be added through gear then I'd be very happy overall.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Def on best body piece in the game: 182 (Sentinel Cuirass)

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Actually cobalt cuirass +1 has 184 defense, more VIT, more HP, and some attack power in the mix too, much better than sentinels cuirass.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Actually cobalt cuirass +1 has 184 defense, more VIT, more HP, and some attack power in the mix too, much better than sentinels cuirass.

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even the reg cuirass has more vit then sent. sent is purely a vanity piece.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waldo

Actually cobalt cuirass +1 has 184 defense, more VIT, more HP, and some attack power in the mix too, much better than sentinels cuirass.

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even the reg cuirass has more vit then sent. sent is purely a vanity piece.

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Yea... I don't care for the sent either... I wasn't really saying it was the best piece... just saying it has the highest base DEF...
I'd use the cobalt NQ over the sentinel...
technically yes... a Cobalt Cuirass +1 has 2 more defense... just for the purposes of this thread the Sentinel was enough to demonstrate my point

Warning, Mammoth Post, and I havn't even read past page 9 yet.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Well yea... thats what the thread is complaining about... the stats have been raised... but the bonus from gear and materia hasn't been raised to compensate... The ratio has been skewed
"big base numbers mean big differences are required"
Like +3 Str on gloves? the point is that is not a very big number

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That's why materia was put in, +30 str or +40 att gloves are plenty easy to come by. I don't like the stupidly luck based materia myself, but you can't say something isn't there when it is.

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Not exactly... The most important damage stat is Damage output... and can't be changed other than actually changing weapons.
Also there may be a MOB in which doubling all damage stats doubles your actual damage... But the percentage increase would change from MOB to MOB

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Weapon base damage and varying mobs can be accounted for by varying pre-factors. Simple testing I have done myself with lv1/10/20/30/40/Mog Axes (keeping att and str fixed), shows the base damage effect to roughly be (new base damage)/(old base damage), combined with a factor of 0.5 on physical fractional DD stat increases seems to fix the THM based model to melee well enough. But that's all from only of 30 mins of testing, I'd put more time in if I didn't live and breathe BLM.

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Thaum is different. There is no base damage that supersedes all other damage stats
Even still... have you done tests to see how much damage you deal naked as opposed to fully geared on MOBs above your level?

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First off, why would I even bother posting if I hadn't? Some of us actually try to understand and benefit from understanding the stat system, rather than making up crap. Here are some simple results I have jotted down on an old txt for the THM on fully geared vs naked on ifrit:

Full gear (50 Samples): Avg Dmg: 675 (Precision to nearest 5) INT 353 MAP 492
No gear (10 Samples): Avg Dmg: 440 (Precision to nearest 10) INT 253 MAP 432

% Increases: INT ~40%, MAP ~14%

So Ignoring cross terms and summing %s, thats 54% increase predicted, the true value is 53% which is a plenty good match for a rule of thumb, especially considering the 1% difference could probably be overcome by going to higher precision. Like I said for melee, half this value, and then multiply by (new wep dmg)/(old wep dmg) gives you a fairly good model for below-cap stat "small" (I haven't actually found an upper bound yet) changes (It may well hold for %s over 100, but I very much doubt it, and the whole idea was based on a Taylor expansion with coefficients weighted inversely with base stats anyway)

No, it's not how the stats work, heck every THM worth their salt already knows stats vary between thunder teirs, let alone mobs. But it is a damn good model considering all you have to do when picking gear is consider "which gives the better increase compared to the base value" rather than spend time doing calculations with Seiks charts. I can't bring myself to go to that much effort every time I go to upgrade a piece of gear when I already have an arbitrary idea of what is better.

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Not to be mean but that makes no sense.... stats are relative....
My Att could be 10 or 10 million as long as the MOBs stats were adjusted accordingly, you could make it so you deal and take the same damage you would have with low stats

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Swap to a lv1 job, hello relative basis. From there on its all the ratio crap they have in place to let you WS lv1 mobs for 9999 6 times on LNC etcetera.

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It... wouldn't... change.... anything.....
Well I take that back... it would make Ifrit all around harder....
But the naked group would still have roughly the same chance as the fully geared
group. why? Because elemental defense is hard to come by and damage stats are not present in the gear... Hence the point of this thread

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How much harder it makes it depends on how much higher they make his stats. One thing the player base seems not to have noticed when going about complaining about Ifrit is that most of his damage is magical, and seeing as magic defence isn't a stat any more (was it ever?), they had to make it "doable" or "impossible" which was stupid on their part. If they converted his swipes to being physical damage, I would guestimate (from letting mid 50s mobs smack me around at varying levels of nakedness on GLA) that your reindeer GLA would get hit for around 6K (this is a very rough estimate), but yea, physical defence on a mob that does largely magical attacks isn't worth crap (swipes, sears and WS are magic, and it's not like he does many normal attacks during his swipe>swipe>ws pattern). Heck recently I have been going with a few MRD tank groups because the DD is better and the hate is almost the same with a good well materia-ed(?) MRD.

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I understand that... And I agree... it doesn't matter what you wear.... the gains are so small on gear... but honestly the Materia gains are only slightly better and still don't matter as much

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Yes, its "only" a factor of 10....?

I am personally in the camp that a fully decked out player should do ~1.5x the damage as a basicly geared player of the same level of skill, if gear ever manages to increase your damage by a factor of more than 2, you are apparently a better source of DPS as two other players combined, which I think is too far. Currently on THM that is what the limit sits at realistically, and on melee if you include the bonus of going from a crafted weapon to an Ifrit weapon, it is about the same.

One thing though, where I am in complete and utter agreement with you, is accuracy being too high. Not solo, where without mog weaps in places like natalan (e.g. soloing the seintel gauntless sentry - although they are high evais mobs) it is actually kindy sucky, but the full party buff makes it utterly broken, I miss 1 shot per 5 stacks of arrows on arc, and I don't think I have ever used Hawkeye. I think the full party accuracy buff needs a nerf, to make melee equip a peice of acc gear (which, given as full pt buff is 10% ~30acc, tiny acc changes make a BIG difference, so there's a start to the kind of stat system you want!). This has nothing to do with wanting to make more use out of my adorable mog weapons.

Edit due to reading page 10!

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TBH gear upgrades in FFXIV feel like more of a "jump" in damage than FFXI's ever did. Also if you want to feel like you jump up in damage with every upgrade we'll be doing 20,000 damage a hit in a year or so like WoW which isn't exactly what you want I think I got out of the thread?

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I think it's relevant enough, and true enough.

Off topic but Ifrit "Swipe" is physical damage that is adjusted by defense. Everything else is fire. "Naked" swipe should be about 1,200ish I think.

This is news to me, I always had it down as being magical, I don't tank myself so that was fairly word of mouth as to why it was so consistent. Mobs just above your level seem to do quadrouple physical damage going from 643 to 62 defence (and a smidge of VIT here and there), I'd expect it to be a more significant change on Ifrit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

Stats are not the reason People can beat Ifrit naked its the fact Ifrit does no physical attacks and everyone has the same amount fire resist so everyone takes the same dmg regardless, honestly tired of telling ppl this. On the other hand you still see an a bigger dmg increase when you max out both of your attack stats for your class like for pgl Str and Int.

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Sooooo, then why can one fight pretty much any mob in the game and do DH, and moogle, and any mob they run across naked reasonably as easy as they can in good gear? That kind of makes the whole defence of the ifrit battle naked a moot point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

This is news to me, I always had it down as being magical, I don't tank myself so that was fairly word of mouth as to why it was so consistent. Mobs just above your level seem to do quadrouple physical damage going from 643 to 62 defence (and a smidge of VIT here and there), I'd expect it to be a more significant change on Ifrit.

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Wow.. that was a mammoth post...
Lets see if I can bullet point it on up

1. Yes materia gains are more noticeable than gear gains... I never said the system was broken... I have just repeatedly said that I want gear (and not just materia) to matter. I dont want to be able to put materia on any gloves "FOR WHICH I LIKE THE WAY THEY LOOK" and they be just as strong
Case and point.... Mahogany Pattens are LVL 48... Oak Pattens are LVL 43... You're probably using the Mahogany....
Whats the difference between them???? 2 MP.... 2 FRIKKIN MP? that is what? 1/20th of 1 percent of my buddy Darkstar's total MP on Thaum. Or maybe the peisteskin Crakows of Invoking... they have 10 more HP than the pattens... But wait.. you can't put tier IV materia on the crakows... and the only point of even wearing shoes is the Tier IV Hell's fist... but what shoes you wear??? doesn't even matter in the slightest....

2. You took offense to me asking if you have tested.... YOU may not have posted without testing... but TONS.. and I MEAN TONS of people would... And I don't know you personally... thats why I asked... don't be offended
For your tests... were they all on the same MOB on the same level?
There is no master percentage... It will vary from MOB to MOB and also from 2 of the same MOB who are on different levels....
You may have a 50% damage increase on a lvl 15 MOB and a 10% Stat increase on a lvl 55 MOB... or Vice versa

3. I think you misunderstood what I mean by relative.... If a MOB had 1 million hit points and you were hitting f 1k a swing... its the same as if a MOB had 100k hit points and you were hitting for 100 a swing...
Thats what I mean... Stats are only relative to each other.... If i go to someone who has never played this game and told them my Att stat is 500... that means nothing... they don't know if that is good or bad...
You could go in and make 500000 Att be weak relative to the Monsters stats if you also jack up the MOBs Def and VIT
All stats are relative in that regard... that was my only point

4. Its about personal preference... the melee get no where near a 50% increase from gear... or increasing a stat
All I would want is a bigger difference between Naked and Fully geared... In terms of ALL stats...
Its not about content... because regardless of content... fully geared should be EXPONENTIALLY better than naked...
Thaum is actually the opposite... Use that same fully geared setup but throw on a weathered sceptre... I bet you do that 675 and not the 440. There is just no balance... stats are all over the place.

5. Materia is only slightly better than gear increases

The game is obviosly suffering from stat inflation and at the same time stat doesnt matter much at all, I'm sure(and truly hope) this is something they will address in the future (2.0 or later).

Complaining damage doesn't increase enough when you raise your STR and ATT power is your first problem. Look up your auto attack bonuses. What your attacking will effect damage too.

Your second problem is thinking stats cap at 280/290.

Materia is key to success.

i agree with the op, they need to make gear matter more. better gear needs better results. forget this casual outlook where u can do everything naked and not make a huge impact. by 2.0 if not fixed i probably won't stay that much longer. take swtor i already quitting cause i'm maxed out gear for most part and nothing to do. guilds are empty all day other then the event times cause literally nothing else to do in that game other then that. it's a joke and any mmo that follows this style is set to fail and suck too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Complaining damage doesn't increase enough when you raise your STR and ATT power is your first problem. Look up your auto attack bonuses. What your attacking will effect damage too.

Your second problem is thinking stats cap at 280/290.

Materia is key to success.

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I've not seen any tests that prove otherwise....
I have seen tests that prove it to be correct though

So saying I'd prefer a bigger difference in naked vs fully geared is a problem and not just a preference?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Complaining damage doesn't increase enough when you raise your STR and ATT power is your first problem. Look up your auto attack bonuses. What your attacking will effect damage too.

Your second problem is thinking stats cap at 280/290.

Materia is key to success.

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Hey Kory, this is a little off topic, but do you mind explaining what you've found out that shows stats not capping at 280/290? I remember you writing a "threshold" post a while back saying after 280 and 340 you get increasing returns on your damage. I tested a while back at 307 STR/PIE on LNC and at 368 STR on LNC without seeing any change in damage linearity. What types of changes are you seeing?

Thanks,

Seiken Valk

oh also for those who say we need to take into account for cap raise all way to 99 ...this is not true. no matter what level cap raises there will and should always be tons of different grades of gears and all of them should make there appropriate differences. good bad gears and all that inbetween and godly stuff too. none of them should be small differences but noticable ones.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Sooooo, then why can one fight pretty much any mob in the game and do DH, and moogle, and any mob they run across naked reasonably as easy as they can in good gear? That kind of makes the whole defence of the ifrit battle naked a moot point.

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Show me a vid after 1.20 where some did moogle or DH naked w/o getting hit for tons of dmg. As a pgl i know attack and DEf stats work fine cause FoF and FoE help me greatly solo mobs 7 lvls above my lvl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

Show me a vid after 1.20 where some did moogle or DH naked w/o getting hit for tons of dmg. As a pgl i know attack and DEf stats work fine cause FoF and FoE help me greatly solo mobs 7 lvls above my lvl.

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Moogle didn't come out until 1.20 so all moogle fights are after the changes
and here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAOsNJCl5s&
reindeer moogle

I feel like people want to hit for 200 more damage a hit by adding on 50 STR. Hitting for 30 more damage on level 50 mobs in gear vs naked is a huge difference. If you put that into a party setup with everyone doing that much more damage your looking at a ton more damage than before. 200 arrows= 6,000 more damage. 5 archers: 1,000 arrows= 30,000 more damage. I'm pretty sure 200 arrows don't last long for an Archer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

I feel like people want to hit for 200 more damage a hit by adding on 50 STR. Hitting for 30 more damage on level 50 mobs in gear vs naked is a huge difference. If you put that into a party setup with everyone doing that much more damage your looking at a ton more damage than before. 200 arrows= 6,000 more damage. 5 archers: 1,000 arrows= 30,000 more damage. I'm pretty sure 200 arrows don't last long for an Archer.

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Its all relative...
If everyone is 5% stronger then you're entire party is.... 5% stronger than they would be naked....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Its all relative...
If everyone is 5% stronger then you're entire party is.... 5% stronger than they would be naked....

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So my understanding is you don't want gear to make you stronger. You just want to be useless naked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Complaining damage doesn't increase enough when you raise your STR and ATT power is your first problem. Look up your auto attack bonuses. What your attacking will effect damage too.

Your second problem is thinking stats cap at 280/290.

Materia is key to success.

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Yeah, I am and ARC / THM / CNJ. How is auto attack on those classes aplicable to your comment?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firon

Show me a vid after 1.20 where some did moogle or DH naked w/o getting hit for tons of dmg. As a pgl i know attack and DEf stats work fine cause FoF and FoE help me greatly solo mobs 7 lvls above my lvl.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Moogle didn't come out until 1.20 so all moogle fights are after the changes
and here you go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nAOsNJCl5s&
reindeer moogle

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Okay, you have been shown, I am happily awaiting you next comment.