Petition - Bring back the Need button in 24 mans

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

I am actually torn on this. On one hand, I would rather someone be in the 24man with their main playing to their fullest potential. On the other hand, their are some greedy and lucky sob's. Ive literally seen 1 person win 90% of the items in an entire run. So its a catch 22 for me. The only reason its a big issue currently is because everyone and their mother is desynthing the rabanastre gear for stormsaps. Weekly limit is a weekly limit so the new 24man doesnt matter.

---

Why would you want to gear your other classes if you want to do stuff with your mainclass anyway? I mean no offense but it doesn't make much sense.

Brink back need... it's needed...

Please revert this change!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ilan

Why would you want to gear your other classes if you want to do stuff with your mainclass anyway? I mean no offense but it doesn't make much sense.

---

ok, let me give you a more clearly defined example. My bard is BiS (savage included) (meaning i cant get any better gear) my tank is not. Would you rather I bring my crappy geared tank or my BiS bard? your thought process on it (or lack of) is kind of disturbing. Especially in a game where everyone can be every job. This is why it's a catch 22(for me at least)

I want to gear all jobs that I enjoy playing. Take raiding for example, the people I play with know what jobs I want to gear and when the mains get theirs, we slide the extras to the people who play those jobs on the sidelines. Not sure if it will make sense to you at all but there is my attempt at explaining.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

Take raiding for example, the people I play with know what jobs I want to gear and when the mains get theirs, we slide the extras to the people who play those jobs on the sidelines. Not sure if it will make sense to you at all but there is my attempt at explaining.

---

Right.. the problem is there are mains in there losing stuff to alts or even people without the job leveled. Not that anyone rolling would know mind you unless people said something. I can see why people would take issue to that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vaer

Right.. the problem is there are mains in there losing stuff to alts or even people without the job leveled. Not that anyone rolling would know mind you unless people said something. I can see why people would take issue to that.

---

totally get that, why I said it was a catch 22 for me. I dont mind but I also dont mind running the content over and over to get the item im after. Others do

Why does everyone want the SAM/MNK top from ridorana?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Why does everyone want the SAM/MNK top from ridorana?

---

Great stats and it's a Vaan cosplay....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jameseoakes

Great stats and it's a Vaan cosplay....

---

It's not a Vaan cosplay tho... unless I missed where Vaan was wearing a white satin longsleeved shirt with the collar popped up... the vest part is vaguely similar but in that case so is the DRG top... same top with a black shirt instead of white

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okamimaru

It's not a Vaan cosplay tho... unless I missed where Vaan was wearing a white satin longsleeved shirt with the collar popped up... the vest part is vaguely similar but in that case so is the DRG top... same top with a black shirt instead of white

---

https://i.imgur.com/lh185k7.png

I'm guessing it's supposed to be this from FFT A2.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vaer

Right.. the problem is there are mains in there losing stuff to alts or even people without the job leveled. Not that anyone rolling would know mind you unless people said something. I can see why people would take issue to that.

---

If someone is choosing to spend their weekly loot drop on a job that they don't have unlocked, then more power to them. Its a huge waste for them and very few people would actually do that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

On the other hand, their are some greedy and lucky sob's. Ive literally seen 1 person win 90% of the items in an entire run.

---

With the weekly lockout in place I don't see how someone could win 90% of the items, they get one per week. Unless you mean the older raids, in which case the gear is outdated anyway so is actually far more useful to someones desynth than the person playing the job.

Holy crap... they made Vaan even worse than he started out... if that's the rest of the outfit I'm just gonna skip this raid except for the weekly coins... simply not worth the hassle fighting over this outfit...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If someone is choosing to spend their weekly loot drop on a job that they don't have unlocked, then more power to them. Its a huge waste for them and very few people would actually do that.



With the weekly lockout in place I don't see how someone could win 90% of the items, they get one per week. Unless you mean the older raids, in which case the gear is outdated anyway so is actually far more useful to someones desynth than the person playing the job.

---

thats what I said in the post you quoted. must have missed it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If someone is choosing to spend their weekly loot drop on a job that they don't have unlocked, then more power to them. Its a huge waste for them and very few people would actually do that.

---

It's a waste of an item for the person who doesn't have the job unlocked and for the person who now isn't better geared. Now the person who lost the roll just gets bitter at the system and tells other people about it making more people angry.

Or. . . just go back to the old system and no one is angry. You need it, you need it otherwise everyone greeds just like now. It prioritizes people who play their class.

my question is if you aren't comfortable enough with class to play in 24 man why even bother getting gear for it? or you know play i the 24 man raid to get better at it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

ok, let me give you a more clearly defined example. My bard is BiS (savage included) (meaning i cant get any better gear) my tank is not. Would you rather I bring my crappy geared tank or my BiS bard?

---

I'd rather you bring a class that matches the gear you're rolling for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

My bard is BiS (savage included)

---

You do not need savage gear to do alliance raids. Very weak argument.

You mean that Vaan cosplay is for mnk/sam? I always thought it's for Tanks.

But yes, lets have that need button back!

Is it useful?

I agree the need needs to be brought back, you should only be able to lot on the item that fits your current class that you entered the instance with. Prevents people from rolling on items that they cant use. If you want the item then bring that class into the instance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

It's a waste of an item for the person who doesn't have the job unlocked and for the person who now isn't better geared. Now the person who lost the roll just gets bitter at the system and tells other people about it making more people angry.

---

you must have missed the point I was making so I will make it very plain, yes it is a waste of an item for the person who doesn't have the job unlocked SO IT IS VERY RARE THAT THIS WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN

This change needs to be reverted ASAP it just gimps new players why call it a catch up patch if its way harder to catchup now

I wanted Vaan's outfit myself. Oddly surprised it's for SAM which I need the gear for. I grinded the new 24 man for one piece of it to the point I'm bored of it already because of greed rolls.

I am also confused over their creative choices with his outfit; his shirt which is clearly cloth is somehow leather, and his pants which are clearly leather in every other game are now weaver aligned and cloth (and also very poorly modelled)? :| Yes I am one of the 2 people out there that really liked Vaan. Come at me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

I'd rather you bring a class that matches the gear you're rolling for.



You do not need savage gear to do alliance raids. Very weak argument.

---

what in the actual hell are you going on about? Did you read the entire post in its context? Clearly you didn't....smh

Some people are arguing here for the sake of arguing lol

if you would rather I bring a low geared Tank over my main job BiS bard then you have a lot bigger problems then this NEED button lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

If someone is choosing to spend their weekly loot drop on a job that they don't have unlocked, then more power to them. Its a huge waste for them and very few people would actually do that.

---

Do we know that its a waste for them? Maybe they just wanted the glamour and will be leveling this up. Maybe they dont need any gear and just roll on stuff to save it for later when they can turn it in? Anyway the worse is that someone that truly NEEDS it right now might lose the roll thanks to that. The rolls where the person who wins it has that job not unlocked will probably be the minority but there will be enough people that roll on this for other jobs even if they dont actively play them and thus take them away from those that went into this as the job.

It also doesnt matter if they can only get one item per week. This is still one item that people can lose and seeing how its RNG that decides what the chests drops this might have been the only one of this gear item that drops for the week for the person that really wanted it.

Old raids matter too because people do run them for glamour. Now its even worse for them while those that want it to turn it in or desynth it will also have it worse because they are now missing they items that they could roll need on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

if you would rather I bring a low geared Tank over my main job BiS bard then you have a lot bigger problems then this NEED button lol

---

If the tank has enough ilvl to go into this raid than he is good enough to play it and if he does not even have enough ilvl to do this than why need it? Because if its that low you seemingly dont play the job enough. And yes if you want a certain drop then earn it with the job that needs it. With the old system, those that went into this as a tank or healer got a reward by being either the only one to roll on it with need or against another one. While if they dont need it others could have still had a chance with the greed roll. Now you can go into this as a DD that has way less stress in this and get the items for those jobs that can carry a whole raid. (I feel bad for all the main healers in this current raid, I would not want to heal that)

Let's not forget about griefers

This is SE's way of making this content last. They don't actually want you to get armor for the alternate class you want. They want you to run it over and over and over again while you desperately try to win that roll for the class you want. It's disgusting.

Alternate methods of implementing this that would have been better:

- Keep need but lock it to all your 70s only - or at the bare minimum you have to have the class unlocked and a soul stone equipped
- Keep need, but allow someone to pick one other class at the start besides the one they queued as
- Keep greed, but have a warning if you click it and you're not on a class that can equip it so people aren't making dumb mistakes (they do this on a lot of vendor gear so the code already exists!)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

---

You could do that before. So long as nobody else in the duty actually needed it for their main.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

if you would rather I bring a low geared Tank over my main job BiS bard then you have a lot bigger problems then this NEED button lol

---

Yes. And you know what? I play Dragoon virtually every week in Savage whereas I don't often get to play tanks in somewhat challenging content unless I pug Savage. So I like to play other jobs outside Savage even if their ilvl is much lower than my main. Considering all my jobs' ilvl is well above i335, it makes no difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

what in the actual hell are you going on about? Did you read the entire post in its context? Clearly you didn't....smh

Some people are arguing here for the sake of arguing lol

if you would rather I bring a low geared Tank over my main job BiS bard then you have a lot bigger problems then this NEED button lol

---

If you expect people to gear up their classes by not playing them, it's you who has the problem. If you want tank gear, then I'd rather you gear up your tank enough so you can queue with it for a 24 man, and then use it to roll on tank gear. It's pretty simple.

got new character but can't get any armor sense I can't use need

no Need button = new players can't get armor from dungeons

if the game don't have Need button = New Players or New character can't get armor from Dungeons

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Penthea

If you expect people to gear up their classes by not playing them, it's you who has the problem. If you want tank gear, then I'd rather you gear up your tank enough so you can queue with it for a 24 man, and then use it to roll on tank gear. It's pretty simple.

---

I just got my NIN to 70, and my ilvl wasn't high enough to enter lighthouse, its nice that I can gear it to the point where I can run lighthouse with it using lighthouse. Isn't that the point of off jobs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I just got my NIN to 70, and my ilvl wasn't high enough to enter lighthouse, its nice that I can gear it to the point where I can run lighthouse with it using lighthouse. Isn't that the point of off jobs?

---

Could do that with need still there... I've done it...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Could do that with need still there... I've done it...

---

Could, but this makes it easier. The point of the change is to aid people gearing their off jobs, including those that aren't a high enough ilvl to enter lighthouse, on that note it succeeds. I understand why people don't like the change, but I have yet to see any actual statistical evidence that this change is bad or has had any negative impact. People aren't mass rolling on loot, and people aren't trolling because they would only be able to do that once due to the weekly limit, and people like me with lower ilvl off jobs can freely loot on the gear we need.

The real reason this change exists is due to the JP culture of running their main for 24man content, which I think would benefit the west as well. Less deaths during the raid = better experience farming the loot piece you need.

Another point... you don't need to greed ridorana loots to gear up for ridorana... creation gears would work just fine... or new dungeon gears... or buy some off mb... ridorana is 335 to enter... so the "I need them for my alt to run this content" excuse falls apart like a load of chocobo dung....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinisterJoints

ok, let me give you a more clearly defined example. My bard is BiS (savage included) (meaning i cant get any better gear) my tank is not. Would you rather I bring my crappy geared tank or my BiS bard? your thought process on it (or lack of) is kind of disturbing. Especially in a game where everyone can be every job. This is why it's a catch 22(for me at least)

I want to gear all jobs that I enjoy playing. Take raiding for example, the people I play with know what jobs I want to gear and when the mains get theirs, we slide the extras to the people who play those jobs on the sidelines. Not sure if it will make sense to you at all but there is my attempt at explaining.

---

I know what BiS is i've raided enough here.
I honeslty couldn't care less with which class you go into the 24 man raid, what i care about is that you will probably roll something away from the tank (as example) who is on his main job and needs the gear. Thats why greed only is just a big pile of BS.

You also can't compare your static with the df since in a static people talk and listen and know each other.

Good Job Lambdafish to point out japanese culture when even they dislike it...nailed...erm failed it.

If they are going to release the weekly lock on savage on 4.38 like they did with 4.18. Then it's clear they don't expect raiding ppl to really care abou 24 man gear.

Also with this new greed only rule if you did enter with i340 gears on your main and actually DO need the gear you have a much worse chance at actually getting those gears... essentially you're saying that your alts gear is more important than someone's mains gear...