Quality of Life Improvements and MSQ Gating for New Players

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Originally Posted by Awha

Mobile device sorry. In short you claim making the story optional ruins it for others, why is that? If people want to play the story they can do just that. No one is asking to get rid of story all together just make it so it is not a barrier to play the game for those that are not interested in the story and are into other aspects like raiding for example.

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Other than taking all the lore (which the story is built upon) and throwing it out the window... unless you can explain how a lalafel can gain access to a city like ishgard without jacking up the lore... or access to half the things we get access to because we've proven ourselves to be a great hero to the people... why should the dragons not just kill you right out? How/why would you enter occupied empire territory? Would access be pre or post 4.1? Sorry but things in the world actually change based on the msq... perhaps this just isn't the game for you....

It would also be nice if they gave one free story and leveling potion with the purchase of new expansion but going based off the backlash the community had with jump potions I am sure the community rage. Though if you do not mind me asking what do those that want it to be optional without the use of a potion take away from those that enjoy the story. While I did use a potion it does not change how the game has no inbetween option for those that want to enjoy the story but also play with their friends. Only option players like us have is to either find ignore doing current content with friends, use potion to skip the content ,speed blitz the story, or just not play the game.

The MSQ was great for the first few months of the games life and that was actually the point the game got the most praise. The issue is that the game doesn't move time forward for newer players and has no concept of time locked content. I'm not saying that FFXIV should pull the World of Warcraft cataclysm lever and nuke the old world to oblivion, but it should be offering the main scenario quests that are no longer current as more of a memoria type thing. Have crystals near old battle sites that players can visit and if they want to do the MSQ, they can "relive" the moment.

Now unfortunately this doesn't solve the leveling conundrum. Without those MSQs it is rough leveling 1-60 to get to current content. I don't believe those players even have PoTD unlocked; so it's all fates, side quests, beastmen dailies, and the dungeon roulette.

I did use a potion to play with my friends then made an alt during road to 60 to play the story at my own pace. Though let us be real should an mmo that seems to do things to cater to as many players possible wants promote an option that alienates future players.

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Originally Posted by Awha

It would also be nice if they gave one free story and leveling potion with the purchase of new expansion but going based off the backlash the community had with jump potions I am sure the community rage. Though if you do not mind me asking what do those that want it to be optional without the use of a potion take away from those that enjoy the story. While I did use a potion it does not change how the game has no inbetween option for those that want to enjoy the story but also play with their friends. Only option players like us have is to either find ignore doing current content with friends, use potion to skip the content ,speed blitz the story, or just not play the game.

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You might want to push for a free potion with a new expansion. I suspect you'd have a better chance at that then expecting the development team to go back and redo the main and side story quest line. I think it's also pretty naive to think they'd give up the money they will make from selling the skip potions by redoing story at this point for those who want to go straight to end game.

Personally I've bought a number of skip potions for a couple of my alts because I had already done the story a number of times and didn't want to do it again. it's pretty efficient for the most part although there are still things like unlocking dungeons that you have to do, level in GC and a number of other things.

Buy a story skip, power through it, or find a different game... that's your options... they won't make it optional because it would take too much work to redo the whole games system... plus they make money off people for whom the story is too hard... they have no incentive to do what you're asking...

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

As stated, if you don't want to play the storyline, there's the jump pot. It was people complaining about having to do the MSQ that they made the Jump pot in the first place, and story-defenders were against it then and still are. I'm sure the story writers and the staff they employ to ensure lore consistency, and the localization team would be heartbroken to hear about people putting down hard on their work, which is what you're all doing when you ask to not play the story.

If you don't like the story, and the story is getting in the way of getting your friends into the game, you are playing the wrong game. If you really want to skip the story, there's the jump pot you asked for. Stop trying to wreck the story for everyone else who actually want to experience it and like all the lore that goes with it.

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Im not asking them to nuke the story, Im asking to condense 2.0-2.x's fluff. There are several bits that exist solely to slow you down. They've since learned to trim the fat- HW & SB are great in that they significantly streamlined msq.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

plus they make money off people for whom the story is too hard... they have no incentive to do what you're asking...

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Exactly, and with how they're showing they want to nickle and dime us for every little penny they can get out of us, this isn't happening. Unless you can somehow get about 500 big name news outlets at the same time on this saying how Square Enix is bad if they don't fix this (which most won't out of fear of losing their rapport with SE), it isn't happening. We're already largely ignored. We're definitely going to be ignored on this as this affects their bottom line. Now, if big media news outlets kick up enough of a stink that not fixing it would seriously affect their bottom line through poor perception of the company, then that'd be the only way we have. Take the fight to the media outlets for this.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Buy a story skip, power through it, or find a different game... that's your options... they won't make it optional because it would take too much work to redo the whole games system... plus they make money off people for whom the story is too hard... they have no incentive to do what you're asking...

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Please know that while I would like for changes to be made I know that SE will not do anything since they are making money off the current system. I do believe that the current system will not be able to sustain itself in the long run, but at this point it simply conjecture. If I may pose one hypothetical situation. Say SE had a magical switch that made it so all story content is optional, all classes and zones are unlocked from the first moment a character logs in. How would that detract from the story for those that wish to complete it? I saw the examples you mentioned before, but if someone is not interested in the story one would assume they would care about the lore of the world. My question is how a player that does not care about story impact the enjoyment of a player that does enjoy the story?

From a business aspect my view is naive and I do not expect them to do anything regarding the current system since clearly it must be profitable, now the question is how many expansions can they go without doing a restructure of the ARR quests at the very least. Only time will tell. Though I am truly interested in knowing if SE did flip the magical switch how would that have any impact on a player that happens to enjoy the story.

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Originally Posted by Awha

I saw the examples you mentioned before, but if someone is not interested in the story one would assume they would care about the lore of the world. I am truly interested in knowing if SE did flip the magical switch how would that have any impact on a player that happens to enjoy the story.

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Try completing castrum and praetorum now with people running it cuz they HAVE to complete it... now try the same dungeons when it's not needed except for those who choose the story.... you will never get past that point... and NO you can't return the cs skip option in those dungeons because the people doing it would be doing it for the story and would watch the cs... so there's one example of how removing the mandatory story quest would effect people who choose the msq....

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Originally Posted by DreadRabbit

...Games are like spider webs: changing one thing is absolutely going to end up affecting a bunch of other things you may not have considered...

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I agree, it's not worth it for SE to change the status quo.

The least painful solution would be to give everyone 1 free MSQ skip potion at the launch of 5.0.

And perhaps for 6.0 content, not MSQ gate content like areas/maps and NPC vendors,etc. As others have mentioned, this does not detract from the enjoyment of players who enjoy the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Veliena

Where the devs pander to the players who don't want to invest time into the game...If you want it, work for it.

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Uhm, no. Statements like this are what currently get my aldgoat. Even in a hypothetical scenario where it could be feasible to make the MSQ optional, we have people defending the MSQ in it's current state.

1. Plenty of other gates for content exist;eg. class levels/iLvls. MSQ as a mandatory gate is not required.

2. MSQ does not really help with learning to play your class.

3. There are other methods to level and if newbies really 'get lost', we already have "Recommended Quests", place the optional MSQ in there.

4. Let's be honest, a lot of MSQ,especially ARR is terrible and uninspired. There's a difference between grinding out your DOH/DOL and doing busywork quests.

5. Players invest time into parts of the game which they think are interesting. I did Hildebrand because I thought it was interesting even though it's optional.

Cont...

6. SE has indicated FFXIV caters to casual/social players. If all I wanted to do was hang out/glam in Kugane with my vet friends, is it acceptable to go through months of MSQ or purchase a skip potion, to do so?

7. A casual/social MMORPG which requires the purchase of the base game,expansions and MSQ skip potions just to access the newest content/areas is not an attractive choice when compared against similar games.

8. If the barriers to the newest content/area in an MMORPG are considered to be unnecessarily tedious, there's a possibility of losing newbie subs. SE then possibly has to increase revenue from existing players and perhaps will do so through non-sub based revenue streams.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

You can buy skip potions... if you want to skip. Dev's don't need to waste development time for people who don't want to actually play the entire game. They're not going to adjust the main story or side story quests, they've already provided a solution.

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This is the exact reason that didn't make me fully support level boosting, now they are using it as excuse to have the worst leveling experience in all of the top MMOs. I can't believe you guys would rather have less people to play with than having a half decent leveling experience for new players.

They should use the millions of dollars they have been getting from level boosts and MSQ skip to fund a proper new player experience instead of leaving the new player retention hemorrhaging.

SE doesn't really care if people stay or go... people try it don't like it and quit... others love it and stay... and others sub and unsub as they choose... it's casual in that you dont need to raid or do ex primals... you don't have to log on everyday, every week or even every month.... you play it when want and don't play when you don't want to... this game isn't a sir around and chat all day game... and if that's your goal then don't do the msq... just sit and socialize where you are... but quit acting like reading (or pressing skip cutscene) is a burden on you... you don't need to be in endgame areas of you're not doing endgame content which you've said you don't have time for anyway

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

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But thats the thing, ffxiv doesn't try to compete or compare to similar games. Yes it is an mmo, but it is a final fantasy title first and foremost. Story is why we play the game, everything else, the entire mmo aspect, is 2nd on a majority of the players list.

If all you REALLY want to do is be max level and hang out in a major city while talking with friends, by all means, buy a potion, there is nothing stopping you.

WoW had the exact same thing, for a more expensive price, as a jump potion and MSQ potion combined, to do the same thing. Nobody here has a problem with their existence in the game or the players who chose to use them. We DO however take issue when players join the game, then want things changed to their liking, disregarding the very reason most of us began playing this game in the first place. Most players play 14 because its NOT like other mmo's.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

This is the exact reason that didn't make me fully support level boosting, now they are using it as excuse to have the worst leveling experience in all of the top MMOs. I can't believe you guys would rather have less people to play with than having a half decent leveling experience for new players.

They should use the millions of dollars they have been getting from level boosts and MSQ skip to fund a proper new player experience instead of leaving the new player retention hemorrhaging.

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This is a niche mmo for a reason, SE realizes and admits this. In fact as an ex WoW player I can say without a doubt that I enjoy the leveling experience of FF14 more than I ever did in WoW. I just finished leveling a second character to 70, and still enjoyed every moment of it.

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Originally Posted by Vrankyl

This is a niche mmo for a reason, SE realizes and admits this. In fact as an ex WoW player I can say without a doubt that I enjoy the leveling experience of FF14 more than I ever did in WoW. I just finished leveling a second character to 70, and still enjoyed every moment of it.

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This is not a niche MMO, this is a top 3 AAA MMO, I'm pretty sure this game is only second to WoW in population considering it's available in more countries than ESO/GW2/BDO (the other top MMOs)

FFXIV is the only MMO I've played - my usual taste in games being single-player story games, whether RPG or shorter 'emotional' games - and I've enjoyed it very much because of the story. It's been a line to follow through the world of the game, and I think it would be incredibly confusing if it was optional but I wanted to follow it. Dungeons would unlock randomly and not at the point where we are supposed to be visiting them. Things would get out-of-order and lose their significance.

Making MSQ optional might help people that don't care about the story, but it would be at the cost of coherency for those who *do* care, and/or it would place additional restrictions on the way that the story could be told. Already the job quests have to avoid directly referencing the main plot to allow for players doing those quests at any time, whether they've rushed ahead of the MSQ or finished it and the next expansion a year ago.

ARR was also reasonably good at giving you 'side' dungeons that didn't require MSQ to unlock, I'm taking a second character through the MSQ now, and she's overleveled - so I could pick up quests for Qarn, Cutter's Cry, Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale and Wanderer's Palace while still at the story point of the ~Lv30 Titan fetchquest.

(I think it *is* possible to level your initial class through MSQ and daily roulettes? Depending on how intensely you play, I guess. I've been playing slowly with that second character, while also continuing with my main, but I've been raising two classes easily - a tank through roulettes and a DPS through MSQ+sidequests, and that seems to be working fairly well. Only occasionally needing to run dungeons with the DPS class, so if you were rushing through with dungeon and MSQ EXP going into the same class it might not be that hard to keep up.)

Also, I feel like it's been enjoyable, in a way, to have things I want to do "visible but out of reach" to work towards. Now that I'm getting to the endgame, and the story is wrapped up for now, I feel a bit lost.

And if FFXI was a 'standard' MMO experience, from what people are saying about it, I think I would have hated it. Hooray for this game doing something different to what all the other MMOs do?

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[suggestions that expansions should come with a free story skip potion]

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If they were ever going to offer free story-skip potions with a game purchase, I would expect it to be with a future "complete edition" and not with expansions. Logically the people buying expansion-only releases are the ones who have already completed the previous expansion and are past the point of needing to skip anything.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

This is a game you play so you can have Haurchefant's broken shield hanging in your apartment, and know WHY it is there.

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Wait what? That shield has more important places to be. On the other hand I would appreciate being able to hang up *my* shield that I received as a gift - is that a master crafting recipe?

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Originally Posted by bass9020

• Removing HW jobs from being strictly locked behind 3.0 and allow you to start them when you get lvl 30 and reach Coerthas area, they could have the guild NPCs stationed in those areas until you get to Ishgard

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I'd also retroactively fix AST/MCH/DRK and SAM/RDM so that they can be started at level 1 without HW/SB. Because of how the game has been designed to date, this would require making Ishgard (but none of the level 60+ areas) available from the start, and also creating a storyline for level 1-30 for AST/MCH/DRK. SAM/RDM, really they shoe-horned this.

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I've played the astrologian and machinist quests, and the stories are so heavily set within Ishgard. They can't just be relocated - they would have to be completely re-written, and I think it would break those stories.

That said, obviously they learned from it and put the Stormblood expansion jobs in more accessible locations, but they planned it from the start, and the story (or at least what I've experienced of red mage so far) still seems tied to Stormblood rather than ARR.

And personally I'm *much* happier to start those jobs from Lv30/50 than have another several classes to grind up from Lv1. I understand how it's frustrating for newcomers who want that as their main class, but I can also see how frustrating it would be for long-time players if new jobs were released with the new expansion but have to be leveled all the way up to current MSQ level before they can start playing as that class for the story.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You know what I'd change? I fix the initial character creation to have no job assigned (Freelancer class.) This would allow the player to get to a maximum of level 15 (eg play all the non-job quests) to where they can now get on the airship and go to any of the guild's to pick up any of the jobs. They must pick a class/job to do the dungeon content and progress any further. Any of the combat up to this point would have a generic "Fight, Magic, Defend" command with no main hand gear. If you want to pick a class/job at any point you can. Therefor, by playing the freelancer class to level 15, you automatically get ALL combat jobs to level 15 the first time you switch to them (quests still need to be done to unlock the skills,) which is where the game has the longest slog for.

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While starting secondary classes at a higher level would be nice, I think this sounds like the first part of the game would have very boring combat.

Easier solution would be just to have classes start higher, maybe at level 10 (since that's the level when you're first allowed to change classes).

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

How many times must I repeat the point that just because the game is story-driven doesn't mean that content such as areas/maps and NPCs should be locked behind story?

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I don't think you could call a game story driven if unlocking content had little connection to it. Something that is story driven means the story is central to the game. Not something on the side you encounter sometimes.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

FFXI has managed to be story driven and still provide a relative amount of 'freedom' when it comes to such content.

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Newsflash: XIV is a different game made by a different development team lead by different people. XIV isn't a sequel to XI. If you want to play XI then go play XI. Don't go to a forum of a different game and complain about how it isn't the same.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

A social MMORPG has to appeal to a large audience to gain new subscriptions. The investment for a newbie either through time or jump potions to get the newest content is not attractive compared to the competition.

No/few new players= increase monetization efforts especially through non-sub based revenue streams.

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You seem to have this idea that just because something doesn't appeal to you as a new player then it won't appeal to anyone else. If that were the case the game wouldn't have seen its first expansion, never mind the second. Do you know the history of this game? It literally rose from the ashes of an incredibly bad game and has become a success story that is otherwise unheard of in the gaming industry. Most players aren't 1.0 veterans, they're players who dealt with the msq gating just fine. Many players have alts and have experienced the gating two or even three times. I don't think they would have worked through it on their alts if they found it to be a massive turn-off like you do.

The gating would be an issue if lvl sync didn't exist as it would make instance queues crazy long. But there is lvl sync and daily relevant roulettes tied to old content so doing old msq content isn't a problem. Many players love reliving the old content while watching their friends seeing it for the first time.

If you don't like something, fine. Nothing you can do about your preference, you can't force yourself to enjoy something. But harping on about how casual players are somehow at a disadvantage because of the story is plainly incorrect. The majority of XIV players are casual and have been since before ARR. If they felt disadvantaged well...I don't think this forum would exist.

The best thing they can do is just add more new content that new players and endgame players can do together like potd and pvp; things that are unlocked early and don't require an item level. Msq just has to be do it or buy a skip because restructuring progression would take too much dev time.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I've played the astrologian and machinist quests, and the stories are so heavily set within Ishgard. They can't just be relocated - they would have to be completely re-written, and I think it would break those stories.

That said, obviously they learned from it and put the Stormblood expansion jobs in more accessible locations, but they planned it from the start, and the story (or at least what I've experienced of red mage so far) still seems tied to Stormblood rather than ARR.

And personally I'm *much* happier to start those jobs from Lv30/50 than have another several classes to grind up from Lv1. I understand how it's frustrating for newcomers who want that as their main class, but I can also see how frustrating it would be for long-time players if new jobs were released with the new expansion but have to be leveled all the way up to current MSQ level before they can start playing as that class for the story.

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I agree, I was mostly giving examples for possible things SE could do that would be a solution for both groups. It could be a possible middle ground that I think would appease most players.

I mentioned moving them to Coerthas Central Highlands temporarily since thats when you first go there for the main story and I think its around the lvl35ish mark? I could be wrong. Still keeping it at lvl30 and not 1 is also ideal.

Again though this type of restructuring would probably be too much for SE, it would have to be done carefully and again not butchering it so the story stays intact.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I don't think you could call a game story driven if unlocking content had little connection to it...

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I've come to love this game. I've watched the documentary about the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 and much more about this game.

Your statements are basically, "We slogged it out with all its imperfections and you should do so too!"

No thank you, I'll keep 'harping' on about how the new player experience can be improved, not just because I love this game but because I'm also a paying customer.

And clearly, the new player experience can be improved.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

I agree, I was mostly giving examples for possible things SE could do that would be a solution for both groups. It could be a possible middle ground that I think would appease most players.

I mentioned moving them to Coerthas Central Highlands temporarily since thats when you first go there for the main story and I think its around the lvl35ish mark? I could be wrong. Still keeping it at lvl30 and not 1 is also ideal.

Again though this type of restructuring would probably be too much for SE, it would have to be done carefully and again not butchering it so the story stays intact.

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That's the thing - I don't think the story *could* stay intact. Or at least it would have to be heavily changed. The plots are set in Ishgard and, beyond level 50, in places only accessible once you're well into Heavensward.

And if you rewrote it with an 'alternate' storyline for people who wanted to take it up early, what happens to the original version? Are players forced to choose (or only learn later that there was a choice at all) whether to get the "early access" plot now or the "proper" version in Ishgard?

It's one thing to plan from the start and develop a story that could be set in Coerthas to begin with (as they did with the SB jobs) but as they are now, you would lose too much by trying to rewrite them to be set in a location they were never intended to take place in.


Ultimately I feel like it's just a consequence of "starting late". If I was playing back when ARR was all there was of the game, I wouldn't have the option to use those classes. Once I've worked my way through ARR and into Heavensward, I've unlocked the ability to use them at the same point in my game-experience that other players first got access to them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While starting secondary classes at a higher level would be nice, I think this sounds like the first part of the game would have very boring combat.

Easier solution would be just to have classes start higher, maybe at level 10 (since that's the level when you're first allowed to change classes).

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The idea behind this was to avoid the present minor-problem where a player starts in one location but doesn't like what they initially picked and can't change it till level 10 anyway. Instead just straight up create a freelancer class that you can stay in until level 15 (you can change it right at level 1 if you want,) when you can reach all the areas by airship and thus have no problem changing the class. That is also the point at which the first dungeon is available and you can not enter it without a DPS/Tank/Healer job. Hence if you level to 15 and then decide to activate every job to figure out what you want to play then you can try them all out on the first dungeon and not just the PvE content, which is what people complain the most about anyway. The Freelancer class also gives crafters/gatherers an option to do nothing but crafting if they don't want to commit to the storyline.

However I really think AST, MCH, DRK, SAM and RDM should have been level 1 options. Because when we're talking about parts of the game that are a slog to get through, getting through the job quests without being able to to do any of the duties IS a slog. Like, how I'd see it work is that regardless of what you pick, switching to anything else automatically brings it to level 15 if you didn't previously have it, but doesn't complete the quests for them.

It's a problem that "other games" don't have because other games don't let you change classes/jobs/races so they have less artwork to create. WoW and their clones, if you want to see all of the story, you have to create a minimum of one character per faction and in the case of WoW, there's like several characters per side, and some of those have splits well past the "beginning" of the game, so it's not a simple matter of playing the beginning of the game a dozen times. Hence a game like WoW who offers a free MSQ skip pot, does so because because you are otherwise forced to play the story repeatedly. So that is a -lot- of grinding if you're not going to commit to that race/class. FFXIV you can change your job at any point. So there is no sunk cost in switching. You don't need to make another character to see all of the storyline unless you really want to see the starting quests for each city, which effectively end at level 15. You can change your GC as well, so that's not a permanent commitment either (it took me one day to clear everything back up to Second Lt.)

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Try completing castrum and praetorum now with people running it cuz they HAVE to complete it... now try the same dungeons when it's not needed except for those who choose the story.... you will never get past that point... and NO you can't return the cs skip option in those dungeons because the people doing it would be doing it for the story and would watch the cs... so there's one example of how removing the mandatory story quest would effect people who choose the msq....

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So you are saying that people will have a hard time doing story quests because less players will want to do them if SE did hit the magical button that removed all the story / quest restrictions for those that desire it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's the thing - I don't think the story *could* stay intact. Or at least it would have to be heavily changed. The plots are set in Ishgard and, beyond level 50, in places only accessible once you're well into Heavensward.

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If a player does not care about the story and currently rushes through it I do not think they would care about the plot. It will just come down a choice, get a watered down disjointed experience or play the game the way it was meant to be intended. If a player is only interested in playing with friends and raiding and had no interest in the story I do not think they would care for what reason they are in Ishgard. Granted this will never happen since it really in the eyes of SE it is not worth the effort and man hours that would be needed to handle such a taste. Just figured it would be interesting to see how people would respond if SE had a hypothetical button that removed all the story / quest restrictions for those that desire it.

They would have to rework how npcs that are linked to the msq and some of the side stories work as they only appear at certain locations if you have certain boxes checked. Also end game stuff since part of this thread was friends who wanted to do end game things with those who are waiting for the next patch is totally optional and you don't need anything from the raids as you can clear anything without said gear. The vendor that sells the accessories in Ishgard would have to change if the msq was optional since they only sell level 51 and 60. Is not registering HW n SB a poor option so that you won't be locked out of new skills? Yes, but you don't need and can't use those skills anyway if you're going through the story and are enjoying it and you haven't reached the content you can use them in. There are many generous people out there.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

Your statements are basically, "We slogged it out with all its imperfections and you should do so too!"

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No it's "if the majority can do it without disliking it to the point of feeling compelled to complain about it, then it's not the big problem you think it is"

I never once said that tolerating msq gating is a rite of passage. I argued that it's central to the game and the vast majority don't take issue with it.

The reason the HW and SB jobs aren't level one is because they're JOBS not classes. Even the ARR jobs start at 30. The monk quest line from 60-70 explains how a pugilist is NOT a monk. The only job that is new is mch. This gets stated more than once in the 30-60 quest line and it's soul stone. Each time you unlock a job you get told some form of "oh hey you've got a knack for this and I might know some one who's looking for a capable person with our skill set". Or it's an oh you seem to know how to fight you want to try this out? Except ninja where you hear odd rumors that you need to go check out and then it falls into the "Oh hey you have skills" track. Heck part of the reason in 1.0 that you couldn't join the Musketeer guild is that you didn't have training with a gun. Course now we have mch but we still won't be allowed to join the guild because SE is done with making classes. Speaking of optional msq smn would get screwed as it gets skills tied to and it's story brings up msq a lot.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I argued that it's central to the game and the vast majority don't take issue with it.

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That's natural, no?

The MSQ is mandatory. If you want to stick with the game, you need to be able to tolerate it, because you have to do it. If you can't, you'll quit, because you have to do something you can't tolerate. The people who disliked it a lot simply didn't stick with the game and naturally don't come around to complain. They're just gone.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That's natural, no?

The MSQ is mandatory. If you want to stick with the game, you need to be able to tolerate it, because you have to do it. If you can't, you'll quit, because you have to do something you can't tolerate. The people who disliked it a lot simply didn't stick with the game and naturally don't come around to complain. They're just gone.

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Well SE have their target audiences, and people who are offended by content being locked behind story isn't one of them. There are other games targeted at these people. It's not as if XIV is the only decent mmo around.

Or else, there is things in cash shop, to go over the gate called MSQ.

On FFXIV, money can break many gate, even the MSQ...

For 15,75 euros, you get all ARR's MSQ done. ready to unlock others ARR content, and ready to begin HW
For 21,75 euros, the same but with all HW's MSQ


SO i would like to hear people speaking about "you dislike MSQ, FFXIV is not made for you" when there is a way to skip MSQ...


For the op, understand that now there are those things in cash shop, there wont be in game change for those content. But i think if SE get money because you dont want to have to do all MSQ to play with your friends, it's fine no?

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

SO i would like to hear people speaking about "you dislike MSQ, FFXIV is not made for you" when there is a way to skip MSQ...

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The jump potion only lets you skip the msq up to the start of SB which means people who hate working through a story will have to do that anyway. Unless they plan on waiting for the next expansion to buy a SB msq jump potion. (edit) Which wouldn't even work because at that point there would be more msq after SB.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

The jump potion only lets you skip the msq up to the start of SB which means people who hate working through a story will have to do that anyway. Unless they plan on waiting for the next expansion to buy a SB msq jump potion.

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if the MSQ are "mandatory", those 2 things shouldnt exist.
SE knows pare of the people dont want to get all MSQ quest to play with there friend, and they had 2 way for this

1) a free one. Being able to begin HW/SB MSQ without doing previous one, and for previous expansion side content, removing the need to do some MSQ.
2) Getting more money, to get the MSQ clean.

These are 2 same way to solve what OP said. He spoke about "all from ARR to SB" and with both way i say, it doesnt change anything for current expansion just for old one...

So, you are defending anything that SE already stopped to defend... Because they get more money if they dotn defend it

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

SE knows pare of the people dont want to get all MSQ quest to play with there friend

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But...friends can play together super early in the game regardless of lvl because of lvl sync...the msq doesn't completely prevent people from playing together. The roulettes and lvl sync constantly result in players of vastly differing lvls playing together.

This idea that the msq prevents friends from playing together is completely false.

The MSQ is a solo content, with some time dongeon / primals story mode.
While you have to do quest after quest, your friends cant do anything. they are playing on their side, doing their own primal farm, omega and anything else.

You speak about a small part of time of the MSQ... we speak about the whole MSQ. large majority of time in MSQ is a solo-time...



While you have to go to SB to be close to your friends, and then finish SB to go with them on the content they are doing (eureka and others) you are alone, and yes, some rare time you say "hey buddy, i have to go to Tam tara, want to come" and your friend is probably kidn enough to go in... (and try to suicide himself due he remember how much he has skills before some lvls...)

I dont play a lot FF, doing other game for month now. during HW a friend came to FFXIV to play with me, because i didnt have anything else to do, i did wait him for each dongeon... I did wait really more than i played with him while this road... (happy to have some game for the waiting...)


The fun fact, he finished all ARR main story quest 2-3 days before the item came in cash shop (and i never said it would be this ^^') he was a little raging ^^'. And i laughed :]


FFXIV is a game which begins in max level. like wow and most today's MMORPG, far from FFXI, or EQ and other old one where leveling was a great part of the game...

FFXIV could have an interesting way to do : you buy the level thing in cash shop, you go to SB MSQ, you can unlock bahamut, alexander and others content, and leave the ARR/HW MSQ for later. Why would you do this? because you want to see those quest, discover this story, but first you want to do the same content your friends are doing...
Those quest could also be usefull to level a second job btw...

Op wants to hang out in kugane (and somehow expects to be invited to endgame content) without having gates in the way... if the people you want to play with don't want to play with you (if they did they would come down to the lower areas to play with you) I don't see the msq being optional as any sort of solution... seriously quit acting like "new players" should be treated special...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

(and somehow expects to be invited to endgame content) without having gates in the way... if the people you want to play with don't want to play with you (if they did they would come down to the lower areas to play with you)

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To be fair the MSQ is mostly solo content outside of helping with the occasional dungeon required to progress the MSQ not much can be done at the lower levels outside of PoTD and PvP, neither of which make any progress towards end game content. I just find it strange that for example people claim the best way to enjoy Eureka is to play with friends, yet this game makes it fairly time consuming to play with friends.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

...seriously quit acting like "new players" should be treated special...

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So this is the real reason you are so against the idea. The famous I did it, as should you mindset.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

The MSQ is a solo content, with some time dongeon / primals story mode.
While you have to do quest after quest, your friends cant do anything. they are playing on their side, doing their own primal farm, omega and anything else.

You speak about a small part of time of the MSQ... we speak about the whole MSQ. large majority of time in MSQ is a solo-time...

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So you want new and veteran players to be able to play together -constantly-? At this point I'd say go to a different game...making that happen would basically require XIV to be a completely different game.

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Originally Posted by Awha

So this is the real reason you are so against the idea. The famous I did it, as should you mindset.

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Nope it's quite trying to ruin a game you just got to...