[BLM Suggestion] Raise spell using Foul stack.

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04-24-2018, 02:56 AM
Ceallach

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

But if black mage doesn't have a raise the few raiders who actually care about composition won't like them.

That's silly. Black mage should do enough damage so people don't care it doesn't have a Raise variant. Besides, if it gets one just to please a minority, that'd be a huge misstep on SE's part. Never pander to a minority.
04-24-2018, 03:06 AM
Kabooa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceallach

That's silly. Black mage should do enough damage so people don't care it doesn't have a Raise variant. Besides, if it gets one just to please a minority, that'd be a huge misstep on SE's part. Never pander to a minority.

Everyone on this forum is a minority.
04-24-2018, 09:19 AM
Zerathor

The issue at hand is blm not being wanted in parties right? There's a solution without needing to overhaul jobs: make double caster output a competitive compared vs the normal physical damage speed groups and the solo smn prog groups. Make drk apply some low but basically permanent magic vuln up on target by like 2-5% from one of their combos. Blm/smn/drk becomes relevant group, party gets a dps raise, and 2 jobs that are often considered off meta get some spotlight for once.
04-24-2018, 09:22 AM
zuzu-bq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabooa

Everyone on this forum is a minority.

Not everyone is asking for it though?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerathor

The issue at hand is blm not being wanted in parties right? There's a solution without needing to overhaul jobs: make double caster output a competitive comp. Make drk apply some low but basically permanent magic vuln up on target by like 2-5% from one of their combos. Blm/smn/drk becomes relevant group, party gets a dps raise, and 2 jobs that are often considered off meta get some spotlight for once.

BLM actually can output competitive damage as long it's not on speedrunning scenarios. People just refuse to believe it and dogmatically say it is bad.
04-24-2018, 09:26 AM
Zerathor

I know it can be. I'm saying make it competitive enough that you'd want double caster for prog though instead of just a smn. Or high enough damage that a caster group can compete with drg/nin/brd/mch in output damage.

The phys meta comp needs to die. It's had its time of being the best comp for an insanely long period of time.
04-24-2018, 05:15 PM
P_Wing

I think another thing that makes double caster groups not popular is gear sharing.
All casters share the same gear so having 2 casters make your progress as a static a bit slower than, say, having a bard instead.
04-24-2018, 05:19 PM
P_Wing

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Aim for a more more casual static? Most of the people I cleared O7S with where part of a static (presumably going by what I could gather) and with them was a black mage. And a fair amount of prog parties I was in featured black mages.

Yah I'm in a static I and my friend made so I'm fine with that.
But nearly all new statics recruiting people on PF for Sigmascape ask for SMN and RDM for caster slots.
Although it's not directly related to me it made me feel a bit sad :(

I think most people do not value DPS as much as utility the class provides I think.
04-24-2018, 06:09 PM
Nobuyoki

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Wing

I think another thing that makes double caster groups not popular is gear sharing.
All casters share the same gear so having 2 casters make your progress as a static a bit slower than, say, having a bard instead.

Raid gear for progression is a bit overrated, since you can clear without diamond gear the fights. Heck, you can even buy some tomestones gear to help progress. Also, since BRD/MCH/NIN/DRG is the go to dps slots, with sometimes BRD/MCH being replaced by SMN, I don't see why SMN/BLM or RDM can't be a thing. BRD and MCH do share gear too ;D

I would kill for a caster meta though, and it'll also solve the problem of DRK being not that great vs PLD/WAR if we go for the solution proposed by Zerathor.
04-24-2018, 06:42 PM
TaiyoShikasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceallach

That's silly. Black mage should do enough damage so people don't care it doesn't have a Raise variant. Besides, if it gets one just to please a minority, that'd be a huge misstep on SE's part. Never pander to a minority.

Personal DPS =/= raid DPS.

Bringing all the damage in the world doesn't matter if it doesn't synergize with the party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerathor

The issue at hand is blm not being wanted in parties right? There's a solution without needing to overhaul jobs: make double caster output a competitive compared vs the normal physical damage speed groups and the solo smn prog groups. Make drk apply some low but basically permanent magic vuln up on target by like 2-5% from one of their combos. Blm/smn/drk becomes relevant group, party gets a dps raise, and 2 jobs that are often considered off meta get some spotlight for once.

Black mage would probably still be looked down on as summoner and red mage bring more to the party besides a rez or raw damage.
04-24-2018, 06:50 PM
Remedi

I don't agree on giving BLM raise since it would stigma the caster role even further but I do agree on kabooa's idea of it beign a caster role action to even the playing field if it really needs to be
04-25-2018, 05:10 AM
Ceallach

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Personal DPS =/= raid DPS.

Bringing all the damage in the world doesn't matter if it doesn't synergize with the party.

Would you rather bring a summoner or red mage than a black mage if the black mage still did more damage than either of the other jobs, including party buffs like Embolden and Devotion? Or are you the type of person who does one tank, one healer, and six support?
04-25-2018, 11:24 AM
Shiroe

the missing rez is not the (main) issue, why blm are often not allowed in pf's..., it's cause the other players want dps buffs for their dps..

solution: take down the fflogs site :D
04-25-2018, 02:54 PM
TaiyoShikasu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceallach

Would you rather bring a summoner or red mage than a black mage if the black mage still did more damage than either of the other jobs, including party buffs like Embolden and Devotion? Or are you the type of person who does one tank, one healer, and six support?

I generally don't care about composition as long as the content is cleared. Not to say a dragoon being present doesn't make my toes curl, but it's not the end of the world if there isn't one.

If the black mage is a better player than the summoner or red mage, I and others would take the black mage, but if that isn't the case, then it's going to be about the summoner or red mage.
04-25-2018, 04:13 PM
Zerathor

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

Black mage would probably still be looked down on as summoner and red mage bring more to the party besides a rez or raw damage.

If blm+smn group could rival a damage group comp, they wouldn't cut off 1000-2000 dps by subbing out blm for rdm if there's already a dps raise. If that many raises were required, that group isn't going far.
04-26-2018, 02:19 PM
Ceallach

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

I generally don't care about composition as long as the content is cleared. Not to say a dragoon being present doesn't make my toes curl, but it's not the end of the world if there isn't one.

If the black mage is a better player than the summoner or red mage, I and others would take the black mage, but if that isn't the case, then it's going to be about the summoner or red mage.

That's great of you. Truly.

Let me ask a different question. Considering how roles work in the game, how would support fit in as its own role?

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