Male Spring Bottoms. What the hell?

I'm...actually disappointed. I was expecting guys to get shorts too (but not that short) when I saw the female version.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Yeah, I think they could resolve this by making a variant of each set intended for each gender but not gender locking it. It'd be a bit more design effort but 1) they have a cash shop and 2) the sub isn't exactly cheap, so I am tired of cop outs and excuses for not spending money on the game.

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I feel like this would be the best potential solution to this problem. Everyone gets the same number of items, so there's no disparity there, and everyone gets more options to mix and match as they please. Though this is assuming the team can get over their apparently intense discomfort at modeling anything more complicated than a pair of ugly sweatpants on the male form...

They don't even look that bad. You guys are making it worst than what it is. Be happy you got something rather than nothing. Guys got plenty of shorts already in-game.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

They don't even look that bad. You guys are making it worst than what it is. Be happy you got something rather than nothing. Guys got plenty of shorts already in-game.

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Name one other than the moonfair one that isn't job locked.
And no, we won't be happy we got something when that something is trash, and following closely on the joke Hildy mogshop set.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

(Also what...since when is wearing shorts as a man crossdressing?)

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I sometimes feel like any time a guy is considered "attractive" or "fashionable" by those who appreciate the male form (in games or IRL), he's labeled as being "feminine" by those that don't. As if you have to be ugly or have poor taste in clothing to be masculine. Apparently a guy wearing even remotely "cute" clothing is considered cross-dressing now.

I will say however that guys do get the short end of the stick in this game with glam options. There's an overabundance of dresses/robes/longcoats/tunics and a significant dearth of more form fitting tops that don't go below the waist or have dangling swathes of cloth for no reason. The Thancred Modern outfit is a good example of a good male chest made worse by unnecessary swathes of cloth attached to it.

I'd like to see more masculine options for guys in game, particularly in the chest slot. With that said, it's not impossible to have "cute" and "masculine" in the same item. Guys can wear shorts that are "cute" without it being "feminine" or "cross-dressing" /eyeroll

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

They don't even look that bad. You guys are making it worst than what it is. Be happy you got something rather than nothing. Guys got plenty of shorts already in-game.

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It's very poetic that a player with a female character would say this.

I just wanted some nice casual shorts to wear at the beach that aren't swimmers. :(

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

They don't even look that bad. You guys are making it worst than what it is. Be happy you got something rather than nothing. Guys got plenty of shorts already in-game.

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Put them on your male character then, which clearly must have an extensive and diverse wardrobe.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

Name one other than the moonfair one that isn't job locked.
And no, we won't be happy we got something when that something is trash, and following closely on the joke Hildy mogshop set.

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What about the Uraeus Breeches or Lord's Drawer? Just cuz they release something for females, doesn't mean we like them all as well. What maybe trash to you, might be great for someone else. I personally like the damage Hildy suit but I'm a female so I can't wear it... or would you rather that be unisex as well?

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Originally Posted by ErryK

It's very poetic that a player with a female character would say this.

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Idk what to tell you, but I like your comment.

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Originally Posted by Pomelo

Put them on your male character then, which clearly must have an extensive and diverse wardrobe.

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Don't have one. I can understand the frustration you and many others have but almost every single male exclusive or event piece that has been released, has been met with criticism which honestly I'm having trouble understanding what everyone wants for their male characters.

The pants on the Uraeus set are fine, but the top not so much. :D They're more like speedos, though.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I'm having trouble understanding what everyone wants for their male characters.

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Quality over quantity which is honestly still lacking. And less Generic Pants™

And just for the record

This

https://i.imgur.com/ie0BOo0.png

Should not

https://i.imgur.com/ZsjpXJv.png

Have happened

https://i.imgur.com/T9oh2LA.png

(Butler's slacks, wedding pants, best man's)

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Don't have one. I can understand the frustration you and many others have but almost every single male exclusive or event piece that has been released, has been met with criticism which honestly I'm having trouble understanding what everyone wants for their male characters.

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Try seeing to from their point of view maybe, imagine if half of your currently unique glamours were replaced by reskins of existing glamours or things most girls would never wear. Of course it's hard to imagine it when we almost always end up being favored with glamours, even with hairstyles, most hairstyles despite being unisex are clearly designed for female.

Um... they're pants... they look that way because that's how all pants are... I'm just not getting how they are supposed to make new guys pants without using the same general design...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Um... they're pants... they look that way because that's how all pants are... I'm just not getting how they are supposed to make new guys pants without using the same general design...

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Maybe short like the female version? Have them rolled-up over the knee like normal shorts for men?

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

Don't have one. I can understand the frustration you and many others have but almost every single male exclusive or event piece that has been released, has been met with criticism which honestly I'm having trouble understanding what everyone wants for their male characters.

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because they're often reskins (most pants), straight up reused assets (past valentines set is the CUL af1 gear, past halloween set is crafter gear vs. new unique female sets both holidays), not complete (a shirt and no bottoms), and even sometimes straight up don't exist (male exclusive gambler/thav/bunny/etc). Folks want equal effort put into the glams. Its visibly not there.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Um... they're pants... they look that way because that's how all pants are... I'm just not getting how they are supposed to make new guys pants without using the same general design...

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Are you saying that you've never owned different styles of pants? lol. Even Irl there are tons of different styles, designers aren't payed to make the same set of pants over and over with just a color change.
Even shorts, there's maybe 3 sets in game that aren't class locked. And the differences in them are so minor, it's either male booty shorts or swim shorts.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I'm just not getting how they are supposed to make new guys pants without using the same general design...

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I have more than 3 pairs of pants and with the exceptions of ones that I bought that are intentionally the same model, they are vastly more different than that. You have different height, cut, width of the 'sleeves', tears here and there. The screenshots are basically the same pants with a tiny bit of difference on top which is covered by the top anyway.
And that's before we get to how we can maybe really get frigging shorts!

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Maybe short like the female version? Have them rolled-up over the knee like normal shorts for men?

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Shorts rolled up above the knee look ridiculous on any grown man in any setting.... if you want shorts suggest cargo shorts, board shorts, athletic shorts... and where is this magical land where men roll their shorts over their knees?

I personally want more capri pants. I'm a lala, and some shorts look okay but capris are where its at. Sandels look better, sneakers makes me feel like I have more options. Not sure if any females have this issue, what with getting skirts and stockings, or shorts all the time, but very few pants go over shoes, they always get tucked in which is not only dumb but often hides the uniqueness of what few unuque pants we have.i coukd have low cut shoes but the pants automatically get tucked in which is annoying.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

if you want shorts suggest cargo shorts, board shorts, athletic shorts.

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Amazing suggestions, thank you!

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Shorts rolled up above the knee look ridiculous on any grown man in any setting.... if you want shorts suggest cargo shorts, board shorts, athletic shorts... and where is this magical land where men roll their shorts over their knees?

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https://www.google.de/search?client=....0.Uv1tfz7v7q8

And yes I have already seen enough men with short jeans. Some of these examples are like the female version just a bit longer.

I mean if they didn't want to go "too short" for whatever reason. They could do something like this...

http://i37.tinypic.com/f0vzw6.png
https://theindecisiveclown.files.wor...na-300x350.jpg

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Originally Posted by Alleo

https://www.google.de/search?client=....0.Uv1tfz7v7q8

And yes I have already seen enough men with short jeans. Some of these examples are like the female version just a bit longer.

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FF14... where if you're not playing a female character the players demand you dress like one anyway...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

FF14... where if you're not playing a female character the players demand you dress like one anyway...

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Nobody is demanding anyone has to wear anything they don't want. It's just that these are called 'shorts' and they are most certainly NOT shorts for male characters.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

FF14... where if you're not playing a female character the players demand you dress like one anyway...

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If you got that from this thread, and you think all shorts are meant for females only, I don't know what to say. Hope you live in a cold climate and never want to wear clothes on your bottom half that expose your shins?

Cargo shorts, Bermuda shorts, athletic shorts, jean shorts... all of these and more are socially acceptable for men to wear, all are absent from this game. Google "men's shorts", click on images, and be amazed at all the options SE has at their disposal but choose not to implement for reasons.

Then look at some examples of men's fashion and gear in other games and wonder if, perhaps, SE's clothing designers are too focused on dressing up their female characters and only give men gear as a necessary afterthought.

All I'm saying is no tight short shorts for guys... we already have too many banana hammocks and stupid subligars... I don't want yet another bottom for guys that shows off the fact we have nothing to show off...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

FF14... where if you're not playing a female character the players demand you dress like one anyway...

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So having common short jeans is dressing like a female? I mean come on we are not even talk about skirts. Do you hate subligars? The pig custome? Any of the robes that men can wear too?

Also they are not thight..I said rolled-up or knee lenght. And the pictures from google have completely normal short jeans.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

FF14... where if you're not playing a female character the players demand you dress like one anyway...

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You are right, I was thinking same thing, not once have I ever seen anyone from where I live have rolled up short, shorts and I only seen a fistful of woman wearing this style of shorts ever.
I was like whoa those look like girl shorts but best be careful posting your opinion in FFXIV forums like that you get put down because its their way or nothing.

Cant have anything cool looking for males it is put down and shamed and they will tell you not to wear it or nobody is forcing though we have nothing to look forward to with our sub money then why we even play if we cant have some sort of input.

Nothing against anyones style but I would like some stuff also that doesn't look girly.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

You are right, I was thinking same thing, not once have I ever seen anyone from where I live have rolled up short, shorts and I only seen a fistful of woman wearing this style of shorts ever.
I was like whoa those look like girl shorts but best be careful posting your opinion in FFXIV forums like that you get put down because its their way or nothing.

Cant have anything cool looking for males it is put down and shamed and they will tell you not to wear it or nobody is forcing though we have nothing to look forward to with our sub money then why we even play if we cant have some sort of input.

Nothing against anyones style but I would like some stuff also that doesn't look girly.

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Again... have you read the thread? Or Theodric's thread explicitly asking for more cool and masculine gear? Or Lukha's thread pointing out out hypocritical it is that we can dress like pretty princesses but have less options than female characters because of unequal gear quantity and some bizarre gender lock restrictions?

A lot of people, myself included, desperately want more masculine gear for all jobs. I'm sorry if you were insulted or put down before but many of us actually do want to dress like the males we play, not some unisex or feminine characters. Generally speaking we're with you, not against you. :) Threads like this exist not because we want exactly what the girls get, necessarily, but because we see what they get and want something of similar quality or variety. If girls get shorts, why can't guys have shorts? If girls get skirts, why can't we have pants or shorts with some unique patterns on them?

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

This

Should not

Have happened

(Butler's slacks, wedding pants, best man's)

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While I understand the overall frustration with the lack of variety, I don't think these three sets are the right ones to make an example of the issue. They're all variations on mens' suits, so in this case it makes sense for them to be similar-or-the-same.

I'm the one that likened them to medical scrubs on reddit, and after obtaining them in-game my opinion hasn't changed. They're hideous, they don't have the same texture or intensity as the female version, and they really, really look like an afterthought by some guy who's so insecure about his own sexuality that after designing some Kawaii Shorts for his Hawt Avatar that he just cat-butt-faced his way through the male version.

Shorts are not inherently feminine. Jean shorts rolled up are a pretty common hipster fashion. Just because you don't like the hipster fashion doesn't mean it isn't a thing.

Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option.

Your desire not to see something doesn't trump someone else's desire to play the game how they want.

I would never tell someone to stop wearing skimpy bikini's or maid dresses because I find them distasteful, because that's their prerogative to dress their character how they want.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While I understand the overall frustration with the lack of variety, I don't think these three sets are the right ones to make an example of the issue. They're all variations on mens' suits, so in this case it makes sense for them to be similar-or-the-same.

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I'll remind you of this post the next time a dress comes out and it's nothing like any dress released in the game thus far, because where's your "it's the same clothing item so it should look the same" god then? Two of those pants are the exact same model with a different color scheme when one of them is something you have to buy with real money for the wedding. That just shouldn't happen.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

I'll remind you of this post the next time a dress comes out and it's nothing like any dress released in the game thus far, because where's your "it's the same clothing item so it should look the same" god then? Two of those pants are the exact same model with a different color scheme when one of them is something you have to buy with real money for the wedding. That just shouldn't happen.

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What I mean is, that example isn't an issue with the game, it's an issue with men's vs women's formal wear. Suits are more uniform than dresses. In a real-life wedding the groom and best man will most likely be wearing variations on the same suit, while the bride and bridesmaid's dresses will be different. All three of those costumes call for that style of pants, or they won't look right - and they've actually gone to some effort to make the third set (butler, I'm assuming) look unique instead of just recolouring the same plain pants again.

I'm not saying there's no issue with variety in men's pants overall, just that these are not a good example of what the issue is. (eg. a better example might be showing three sets of equivalent male and female equipment where the female version is interesting and the male version is plain pants again.)

What do you think they should have done differently with these three specific pairs of pants, while still keeping them looking like formal suit pants?

I agree. I think a better example would be basically any of the recent dungeon or tomestone gear, where females get a mix of shorts, skirts, capris, and unique designs and males get the philosophy of "don't show any skin".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Suits are more uniform than dresses.

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Google would disagree, seriously. That said, they can still have much greater variety than what we have. And the fact all three are basically the same model with minimal adjustments at the waist is the problem here that shows how little effort goes into that sort of thing in the first place. If they had made a new model from scratch per pants, chances are they wouldn't have looked that similar just by virtue of being put together every time, but they can't even put that much effort into it. On one hand, I get why, on the other hand, that's the thing at the root of the problem here.
I wish I had it on hand but just recently I saw an amazing tumblr post about how dreary most men's outfits are in red carpets and award shows and what not... until they looked at the men of color and the suits they rock. Suits being so dreary in design is a white man's myth in and out of the game.

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three sets of equivalent male and female equipment where the female version is interesting and the male version is plain pants again.

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These sets actually still fall squarely under that, though? Butler, Best Man's, and Groom are all, like you said, variants of the same suit. Meanwhile ladies got a maid's outfit, the bride dress, and the bridesmaid's dress, all of which are heavily different.
And the Best Man's outfit is gender unlocked to boot.

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What do you think they should have done differently with these three specific pairs of pants, while still keeping them looking like formal suit pants?

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Different textures. Different heights. Put the buttons on the front instead of on the side... if they're even there at all. Patterns on the legs. Different length of pants even if minimal cuz right now it's about all the same. And give them shoes that would be different enough.

saw some endless argument from earlier comments and wondering myself that is it too much to asking for something like this. D:

https://i.imgur.com/xiig0B3.png

it's just a stupid "normal" short pants, for god's sake...
not another subligars or summer trunks/maro type, neither another shisui shi--*cough*... I mean pants.

Even putting aside real world fashion, this is a game that actively taps into all sorts of different cultures for inspiration for attire. It's also a fantasy game that doesn't shy away from sci-fi and futuristic aesthetics.

So with that in mind? There's really no excuse for this sort of thing. I can look at any past Final Fantasy title and look at the designs of the clothing and armour worn by various male characters. It's often very interesting and unique. Why isn't more of that being tapped into?

As far as suits are concerned, something like this would be wonderful:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20100831191620

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Shorts rolled up above the knee look ridiculous on any grown man in any setting.... if you want shorts suggest cargo shorts, board shorts, athletic shorts... and where is this magical land where men roll their shorts over their knees?

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https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e0/9a/0a/e...e-religion.jpg

This looks ridiculous? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by ErryK

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e0/9a/0a/e...e-religion.jpg

This looks ridiculous? :thinking:

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I like fashion as much as the next guy or gal, but the only dudes rolling up jean shorts above their knees, live in MSP or Seattle, and maybe 1 person in the whole XIV player base does this. Does it look cool? Yea, on your average urban Outfitters or Banana Republic male model. I do think it would be a cool glam, but thiniing that alot of people wear shorts like this is a bit much.

I live in the UK and I've seen multiple people dressed that way...even accounting for it being a fairly cold region for most of the year.