The thread didn't have a reply for 2 hours before you posted... you could have easily just reported the thread, if you feel it is warranted, and walked away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texa
Gayorzea: Discord Partner community for LGBT FFXIV players
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03-08-2018, 02:34 PMVanilleFang
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03-08-2018, 02:35 PMPandaMoniumWe give and take such advises every single day. Kids are told not to talk to strangers, adults - not to share their credit cards info, teens - not to write down their real name, age, address and such in random chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hestzhyen
Don't upload your nude pics to internet if you don't want to have a sudden unpleasant surprise in 2-5-10 years.
Just to generalize all this - don't share the irrelevant personal information with the strangers. People's sexual preferences are absolutely irrelevant in an MMO game (maybe apart of the Romantic Megathread) and I don't think we should compare it to IRL discords and societies because it is relevant for RL.
Your dps, the race you prefer to play, how fast you are learning the encounters, are you a crafter or a savage raider, the hours you are playing - this is relevant to the game.
Your sexual preferences, age, family status, origin, political views and place of work are relevant to RL. So I can't see the argument "but there are a lot of LGBT/Origin/Local discords IRL" as relevant to justify a sexual preferences based chat specifically for FFXIV.
You absolutely can have and enjoy it, but the arguments don't feel like the right ones. Even "I want it so I created it!" reason would be better imo. -
03-08-2018, 02:51 PMAlaray
One hand, just let people have their communities to talk about w/e without the potential for BS to be thrown at em.
Other hand, if all you do with your in game friends and stuff is only ever chat about the game holy shit you're a boring person. -
03-08-2018, 03:43 PMKrokov
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03-08-2018, 04:16 PMTexaBecause I'm not so subtly trying to alert the nightowls that they should report this thread so it'll get the boot before the next primetime. Also,Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
https://i.imgur.com/6KYYEHt.jpg
That said, OP I'm sorry people on the forum are like *this*. Don't sweat it, your discord is good and serves its own purpose. The posters here would argue about whether or not water is wet if the mood struck them. -
03-08-2018, 09:42 PMTridus
This thread would benefit tremendously if everyone stopped before adding their commentary on if a Discord like this needs to exist, and thought "does it's existence and someone else choosing to join it affect my life, or the life of anyone aside from the person joining it?"
Hint: the answer is no. If someone decides this Discord is helpful in their life, good for them. If they decide it's not something they're interested in, good for them. We don't know their circumstances or motivation. We can't possibly judge that decision in any kind of useful way. We just wind up superimposing our own life and worldview onto someone else and then reacting when that doesn't work and they come to a different decision on the value of this.
For something like this, the last line of the Wiccan Rede are words to live by: "An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will" -
03-08-2018, 09:57 PMNedkel
For real i am reading all those posts and cant really understand what this discussion is about.
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03-08-2018, 11:21 PMTheodric
If something is posted on the forum, it's likely to get responses. Some of those responses may involve praise. Others may involve criticism.
So long as both forms of feedback are constructive and civil, there's really no issue at all - especially if none of the established forum rules are being broken. -
03-08-2018, 11:50 PMDracotheDragonAs far as I understand it basicly the same as last time where one person says they wouldn’t like to join and then it some what devolvesQuote:
Originally Posted by Nedkel
Personally if peeps wanna join the discord I hope you all make some new friends if not mayhap remember it for some peeps who may be interested
And no matter what you do I hope you all have a good day after checking this thread out -
03-09-2018, 01:35 AMAethaerynIt's definitely not an echo chamber. That happens a lot with small, insular groups sometimes (regardless of the theme/topic of the community), but Gayorzea is pretty large at this point. There are people of all different shapes and sizes, religious denominations, political affiliations, insert-worldview-here, etc. It's just a place for people who like FFXIV to hang out and talk about this game or others and many other things in a judgment free zone. I've been part of the community for nearly a year, and it has some of the most inclusive people I have ever met.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
I think Lethys just wasn't expecting to get so much negative attention from a harmless post, but he hasn't spent much time on these forums either. Please feel free to come check us out sometime! -
03-09-2018, 01:42 AMTheodricFair enough - thanks for the elaboration! I may drop by later, then. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Aethaeryn
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03-09-2018, 01:50 AMSoupa
Jesus this thread, also cool discord but eh?
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03-09-2018, 02:32 AMSlayer25c
I see this is a big topic in here keep up the good work i love to see our ff14 family getting together make a better community out of the end of the day.
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03-09-2018, 03:20 AMDanyawl
...and yet here you are asserting your opinions on something that neither affects you and apparently is something you don't care about. But by all means, continue. It's providing a great deal of entertainment I'm sure it'll continue to help boost your ego on the Internet too. You definitely have my encouragement ;]
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03-09-2018, 03:23 AMSoupaAyyy look in the mirror buddy lmao you just debunked yourselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Danyawl
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03-09-2018, 03:25 AMDanyawl
If ya say so :thinking:
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03-09-2018, 03:26 AMVanilleFangWhat the actual heck? I have no idea how you read my post and thought "Oh just furthering their own opinions because epeen!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyawl
Lmao. -
03-09-2018, 03:34 AMKerwin
Advertised Gay discord for all = good
Advertised Straight discord for all = bad
Hmmmm.... -
03-09-2018, 03:55 AMUshoQuote:
Originally Posted by Kerwin
Straights have a multitude of discords to go too. Having a Gay discord helps out those LGBT who are struggling to make friends within the LGBT community or those who are afraid to come out. Straights don't have to worry about coming out, or fear getting discriminated against because of their sexuality. Some Countries outside the US, still very much discriminate intensely on the LGBT community. LGBT FFXIV Players in those countries have a outlet via this discord to make friends with their fellow LGBT and provide support and grow together.
So yes, advertised straight discords will be seen as bad cause of how the straight society has treated LGBT. -
03-09-2018, 04:13 AMDualgunnerSo do homosexuals? Haven't been booted out of any discords myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Usho
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03-09-2018, 04:33 AMDanyawl
If you guys just go to any general community, whether it's the reddit Discord, raiding communities, reddit itself and think about your own free company, raid groups or linkshells and search or watch for any animosity/ slurs/ jokes against not just the LGBT community but also against people of a different race or colour or whatever you can literally see a whole bunch of examples.
Maybe we just want to be away from all that. If we go into those places and object we get ridiculed, so we create our own spaces so we can just enjoy the game. Call it isolationism if you want, but that's something we feel the need to have, and as human beings we have a right to choose to be away from that shitty behaviour. That's why these places exist.
Gayorzea doesn't suffer from that toxicity & animosity. It doesn't matter if you're straight, gay, trans, black, white, from Japan, or from Brasil, Buddhist, Christian, atheist, whatever. No-one gives a crap. Since we're packed with members from all around the world, it's a pretty diverse community, and yes, we have straight people in there too. Honestly, I would wish that kind of atmosphere for any online community 'cos it is a real sodding nice thing to be a part of, and we're super happy with it.
I mean look at all these negative posts that we get in this thread just for having a community that's a real positive thing now for thousands of people, it's shameful.
Why is it shameful? Go and do the searches for yourselves. You can even remove LGBT out of the equation and search for racial discrimination alone and Gayorzea comes out on top compared to the FFXIV reddit Discord for example. So why ask anyone to sit around and tolerate the behaviour if they don't have to. It's win win, 'cos we get to be away from it and play the game in peace, and everyone else gets to make their shitty comments en masse and laugh and joke about how funny they are for it without any objections or input from social minorities or any moderators of those communities huh. -
03-09-2018, 05:33 AMXtrasweetteaThis sounds, I dunno, magical. I want this to be true… but my cynical self has a hard time believing it is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyawl
All right, true test here: how many Conservatives and open Trump voters do you have in your group? -
03-09-2018, 05:44 AMREPROBEAN_CHILDBut wouldn't "We're accepting of people from all races, beliefs, and backgrounds. Harassment and abuse will not be tolerated," have the same effect? I'm also sure you can just remove people who disregard those rules. And just because people disagree on calling the channel "Gayorzea," [which sounds like trolling of the name "Eorzea" (e.g. Gaylo 3 sucks LOL )], that doesn't mean they condone the abuseQuote:
Originally Posted by Danyawl
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03-09-2018, 05:54 AMDualgunnerHandle it however you like. Honestly, Discord is a great place to make a server for anything you like, for any reason you like. You have my full support with this Discord.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danyawl
Somebody in the thread said that their homosexuality wasn't just their sexuality, it was their identity, and good on them for that too. I think VanilleFang's point, and one I follow, is that my preferred future is where sexuality ceases to be an identity or a major character trait as it's treated now, but rather is just as important to knowing a person as knowing they like pineapple on their pizza.
tho tbh pineapple pizza lovers deserve burnination
KIDDING
am i really -
03-09-2018, 06:24 AMalimdiaYou never answered my questions :(Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
Besides I think you're forgetting the topic wasn't a discussion about what people are/aren't allowed to do, it was an advertisement post, you came in giving your 2 cents derailing the topic from the start, which is why I gave you my question/example.
Would you go to a subreddit talking about the TV series Stranger Things and out of the blue reply to a comment with "Sorry, I'm not fan of boxing myself into a particular group based on things as immaterial as TV series"?
That was just unnecessary virtue signaling. -
03-09-2018, 07:26 AMVanilleFangSorry If I didn't answer your questions. You can ask them again if you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
I derailed it by saying I don't want to join?
And virtue signalling? What are you on about? This forum is called General Discussion. You can't expect to post something and not get many different replies. Why should we leave the thread to just "omg I will join!" posts? Me saying I don't want to join is the same as someone saying they want to join, except it's the opposing response. Like I had already said, I don't expect everyone to agree with me but I also don't expect people to blow it out of proportion. If I said "Oh this is a good idea, let me join!" You wouldn't have cared because, for some reason, you feel threads like this should be immune to discussion.
Would I go to a subreddit and say I don't want to join that subreddit in that subreddit? No. Would I go to a thread posted on this forum that asks people to join And say I don't want to? Maybe. But then again Stranger Things has no connection to me because I have literally no opinion on it. Would I say something like a tv show is immaterial? Not exactly. You seem to be under the impression that a hobby is the same as sexual orientation. Its not. -
03-09-2018, 08:59 AMRosentretter+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea
Can't believe this joke is 11 pages long now. -
03-09-2018, 09:03 AMalimdia
Yeah the forum is called general discussion, but that doesn't mean threads don't have topics, your post was contributing nothing to the topic, it was just virtue signaling. It's like going to this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Megathread%21 and making a condescending post about how you think in-game marriage is immaterial, what exactly would that contribute to the thread or the discussion? It would be another thing if the thread was "let's discuss in-game marriage" or "what do you think of in-game marriage?".
I'm not saying threads about "let's discuss LGBT discord groups" shouldn't have opposing opinions, but that was not the topic here, and the worst part is the condescension in your original post.
I'm not saying a hobby is the same as a sexual orientation. I'm saying in that hypothetical case the subreddit has one specific main topic, even if it's contained in a space where many other topics exist (Reddit as a whole), leaving a message just to signal everyone what you consider an acceptable reason for people to make a chat group or talk about it would be very out of place, and so is using a thread not dedicated to a general LGBT discussion to throw your condescending remarks.Quote:
Would I go to a subreddit and say I don't want to join that subreddit in that subreddit? No. Would I go to a thread posted on this forum that asks people to join And say I don't want to? Maybe. But then again Stranger Things has no connection to me because I have literally no opinion on it. Would I say something like a tv show is immaterial? Not exactly. You seem to be under the impression that a hobby is the same as sexual orientation. Its not.
What was your original post trying to accomplish? What do you think was going to be the outcome of derailing an advertisement thread to discuss how you feel about what people choose to talk about in external groups?Quote:
Sorry If I didn't answer your questions. You can ask them again if you like.
A side note on your original post: No one is boxing themselves anywhere, no one is restricted to be in 1 discord server at a time or 1 linkshell at a time, and joining a themed chat group doesn't mean you're cutting any sort of communication with people outside that group.
Final note: I know I have helped derail this thread by continuing VanilleFang's discussion, so I'll be reading the thread but I'll not reply anymore. I just wanted to understand the mindset of the people who insist on leaving their 2 cents even in topics that have nothing to do with that. Sorry for the derail OP. -
03-09-2018, 12:02 PMHunky
How about just letting people create whatever special interest linkshell they want and not give them a hard time about it?
If people want to create an LGBT-friendly linkshell and advertise themselves as such, cool.
Some people live in the middle in the nowhere and need people they can relate to in that matter. It doesn't mean they're going to cut off communication with everyone else in the game, come on. -
03-09-2018, 04:50 PMNewmanxenoThis post just bugs me. It’s going to bother me for the rest of my days, every time I wear the wedding shoes.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
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03-09-2018, 05:01 PMHunkyQuote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
You did kinda come off as self-righteous. This is just a simple, "hey come join if you'd like" kind of thread. This is not a "do you believe lgbt designated linkshells are necessary" kind of thread. The purpose of the thread was to invite people and let people be aware of the linkshell. If you're not interested in joining, you don't have even have to bother posting. But your post came off as a sort of judgment call, that people who join the linkshell are isolating themselves and you're above that.
Why do you feel the need to do that? People say how linkshells like this is "flaunting sexuality", but I see people flaunting the idea that, "I'm gay, but I don't need a linkshell like this."
I see what you mean. I'm gay, and I'm not waving rainbow flags everywhere I go (not that there's anything wrong with that to be honest, live and let live, who cares?). I don't rush to join every LGBT thing out there. I'm currently in an LGBT-friendly fc, and I only joined because a good friend invited me (and the people are actually really cool). But the three fcs I was in before were all non-LGBT. So I see what you mean. I'm also an LGBT person who doesn't actively look for LGBT stuff. But what I don't agree with or understand is the attitude you're giving about the linkshell. Yeah, there's definitely more to all of us besides our sexual orientation. Absolutely. But, I won't deny that it is important. I mean, a person's sexual orientation can have an impact on a person's life. It's that important. It might not have an impact on everyone, but it can have an impact. Depending on stuff like social environment and all that.
I remember when I first played call of duty online on the ps3. I heard so many gay slurs. To be honest, it didn't really bother me because I knew those guys were long-distance jerks but it did make me go, "Dang, how am I gonna make good gamer friends?" When I did meet gaymer friends, I really appreciated it. I mean, it was cool. It was cool playing with other gay guys. Fighting games, fps games, all of that. This was back in 2009 or so. It was definitely different back then. People are more open-minded and accepting now, but that doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who could use some fellow gaymer friends today.
We gotta remember that there are still parts out there, even in the USA, where it's tough trying to be openly LGBT without being given crap by others. One of my gaymer friends recently came out and he was kicked out of the house. Had to be homeless until another relative took him in. This stuff happens. I'm not saying you're unaware of these things, because I know you've been through stuff too, like me. I'm just trying to make the point that there's good reasons why people wanna join a linkshell like this, and it's not to isolate themselves from non-LGBT people or to "flaunt their sexuality". It's to find others who you know won't judge you or give you a hard time while trying to enjoy the game. For some people, a linkshell like this is a chance to meet people like themselves. And that's a cool thing.
And I don't agree with the idea that being in an LGBT linkshell is isolating yourself. I'm in an LGBT-friendly fc and I've made plenty of non-LGBT friends along the way, mainly because there are also other linkshells you can join and other ways to meet cool people.
"Hey guys, there's this cool linkshell if you wanna join if you happen to be LGBT or LGBT-friendly." This is what the OP pretty much said.
"Oh, don't invite me because I don't box myself in like you guys do." That's how your post comes across. You might say we're reading into it but the implication is right there. So joining or wanting to join an LGBT linkshell is alienation? It creates a sense of "us vs them"?
You came in with this sort of combative, resistant attitude when the OP is just trying to invite people to a linkshell.
And then you say, "Oh but it's just an opinion. It's my opinion. I'm only sharing my opinion." Yeah, but that's not the purpose of this thread. There's a difference between sharing an opinion in a relevant discussion and posting an unnecessary opinion in a thread that's not trying to initiate a discussion on a certain topic.
The reason posts like these bother me is because they trivialize/minimize the reasons why people want to join linkshells like these, and they end up making people look crazy or weird for wanting to join a linkshell like this. And that's not ok, because there are legit reasons why people would want to join a linkshell like this. Maybe you don't think it applies to you, and that's fine. But why do you have to come in with a negative attitude like that? -
03-09-2018, 06:21 PMPandaMonium
I actually think that the reason behind this really innocent "Hey, I made a new "X/Y/Z" Discord for those who interested" thread got this amount of pages this time, is that times have changed drastically indeed. Let's not take the "I live in the middle of nowhere" reason on account right now but agree that the gaming community (FFXIV) nowadays don't give a damn about anyone's sexual orientation.
The OP would get exactly the same amount of pages of "They can advertise whatever Discord channel they want" / "They shouldn't advertise an X/Y/Z Discord channel that is not related to FFXIV on the game forum" if they would make a "Hey, I made a new Discord for those who works in banking area / gather old stamps / have pet iguana and plays FFXIV".
Imagine for a second that the OP made a Discord channel for banks workers that play FFXIV and there are posts like: "I don't agree with the idea that being in a banks' workers linkshell is isolating yourself. I'm in a banks' workers-friendly fc and I've made plenty of non-banks' workers friends along the way, mainly because there are also other linkshells you can join and other ways to meet cool people."
Sounds kinda funny, right?
LGBT community fight for their rights went a very long way and guys may be proud imo when getting asked "Why do you have to make this special channel, what's wrong with the regular game related ones?" It means that there's already a new generation of young adults who don't remember how it was 10-20 years ago and you can start to get off of your guard :) -
03-09-2018, 06:33 PMDanyawl
If I ever enter these debates seriously like my last post it's because there's people that aren't affiliated in anyway that offer us support & encouragement. As a mod there I feel some responsibility to contribute to that. If that applies to you then I'm sure I speak for all our members when I say thank you. It really does mean a lot.
Otherwise it's only with humour 'cos as you can imagine I have said these things a billion times already & I was never here for a fight, only to let people know that if they want a community like what I described then they're very welcome.
Gayorzea isn't new either. We've been around for 2 years, have thousands of members & are supported by big companies like Discord & other non-LGBT communities and popular streamers. If we don't have to fight them then we certainly don't have to spend time fighting people here over silly shit like: "why do you exist, it's a massive imposition to me & I just felt some ardent relentless need to put this down" -
03-09-2018, 09:33 PMAntonio_Xul
As I read the rest of this entire thread, I'm starting believe that the problem really isn't the whole Discord thing, but about constantly broadcasting about LGBT things. I think people think that it's not something that needs to be a thing that needs constant reminder and are tired of hearing about it like parsers, Viera, the male bunny suit, etc.
It's like how they say at work to not to talk about politics, religion & money. LGBT is a bit political and people want to get away from politics and other touchy subjects when they play. It's not fun and only brings arguments.
I understand that you guys want have fun, too, and don't want to be treated poorly in game, but unfortunately no matter how much finger pointing and shaming you do to the ignorant hater, you won't get rid of all of them. People have been hating on each other for thousands of years and will continue to do so as long as differences exist. It is something we have to adapt to and try to avoid getting hated on. One way to adapt is to not bring it up, especially if it's a polarizing view. I understand that when you get friendly and close, personal stuff pops up, but you have to judge whether it's safe to bring up your polarizing view or not. I don't know how many friends you may have lost in game, because of this, but it would've helped not bringing it up and say "I like to keep my private life private, please".
Just my opinion on what I think is happening. -
03-09-2018, 10:20 PMNedkel
Maybe rename this discord for something else like.
Rainbow Eorzea. -
03-11-2018, 05:04 AMParodineI'm sorry, but history has not been kind to those who simply shy away from polarizing opinions in defense of others. I'm sorry if you find the 'lifestyle' is being shoved down your throat, but ya know, you clicked the link? You commented twice? You're shoving it down yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul
If it's not something you're interested in, just move along, mate. It probably won't go down as deep if you do that.
This pretty beautifully summarizes things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunky
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03-11-2018, 05:07 AMAntonio_XulI like this conversation and I mentioned what I think people think not me. I'm fine with what you guys do, but not everyone agrees and I'm trying to figure out what is really behind this conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Parodine
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03-11-2018, 06:50 AMHestzhyenEveryone's got a strong opinion and Vanille opened Pandora's Box. That's what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul
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03-11-2018, 07:11 AMUshoSimple: 1.) A Troll enters the thread intent on derailing what was supposed to be a advertisement thread for a LGBT discord. (See Post #4 Page 1)Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio_Xul
2.) Said person ruins what the thread initially was made for and in turn brings more people in thread who might have hidden bias against LGBT or are just trolls in general further derailing the topic.
This wasn't meant to blow up like this. This thread was made to let LGBT players and LGBT friendly players know that Gayorzea has a discord that players can join.
Protip: If you aren't interested in threads like this, and you aren't interested in joining the discord because #reasons...maybe don't post in a thread meant to invite people, and keep your reasons for not joining to yourself? Doing what Vanilla did will result in topic derailment. -
03-11-2018, 07:46 AMDualgunner
I mean, A) it takes two to tango. If literally nobody responded to Vanille, then her comment would have gotten swept up. However, you have to admit, through Vanille's back and forth with people supporting the LGBT server, you've kept the thread advertised and relevant--and isn't that a win?