Why is the North American community so much worse than the Japanese one?

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Originally Posted by Bobs

Would you feel better if I listed the Fox News version? It's the same story. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/11...air-black.html

The whole point is it really is time to take a closer look at what people are saying. More often than not it leads to people carrying out what they are saying.

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That is a terrible use of the phrase "more often than not." No, it's not. Most people talk shit, log off, and go eat. Because most people aren't crazy. The guys who do the stuff that gets on the news? Poco loco outliers.

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Why is the North American community so much worse than the Japanese one?

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Its not

As a European who used to play on an NA server there is absolutely nothing wrong with your community. You get the very occasional duty finder troll same as any other region - this does not outweigh the supportive people you have in your party finder groups or the rally for nonsense fun you get in the cities.

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Originally Posted by Bobs

“Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

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Do you now what a troll is Bobs?

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Originally Posted by Cidel

(if I'm reading this paragraph correctly): If you are implying this only happens on JP servers, I should tell you this is exactly what happens, like, 75% of the time in every roulette over here in Primal.



and inb4 threadlock/deletion.

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In EU it's worst the majority of player I met in DF didn't say "hi" and "goodbye" and a lot use the "abandon duty" as soon as the boss die to leave faster.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Do you now what a troll is Bobs?

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I "now" that you quote me a bunch, in a trollish way.

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Originally Posted by Bobs

I "now" that you quote me a bunch, in a trollish way.

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Oh Bobs. I "now" you "now" what a troll is.

And trollish how?

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Oh Bobs. I "now" you "now" what a troll is.

And trollish how?

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This is really diverging from the topic.

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Originally Posted by Bobs

This is really diverging from the topic.

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Not entirely. I'm simply trying to point out that you're a troll. You make hyperbolic statements and generally, whenever you post, you try to throw people into an argument or some sort of frenzy.

You can be opinionated, sure, but you make comments that are presented as absolutes even though they are only opinions. Or you present falsehoods as fact. For example, you claim most people who troll on the internet go and do bad things in real life. This is actually not the case at all, and I'm fairly sure you are aware of that.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Not entirely.

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Any psychologist will tell you that thoughts lead to actions. And who is saying I speak in absolutes? The OP is an absolute statement. I am pointing out that Japan is not as green as the OP thinks. There is no "polite" way to say that. I'm not the only one too.

If anything I'm showing that the world has more gray area than some might think, or want to believe.

You calling me a name "troll" does not make it true, by the way. There are no Absolutes, guy.

I want to point out that the PBS link you provided was not only incredibly biased, but it did not provide any proof for its statements and claims. I'm not arguing that NA is perfect or terrible. Or that JP is perfect or terrible. I made a very neutral post earlier in the thread. My problem is with your claim that trolls on the internet will, and do, commit hate crimes more often than not.

I also find it kind of funny that you used a Ghandi quote as "evidence" that people will act on their thoughts and words. A quote by a man who is known to have made racist remarks regarding South Africans. Hmm...

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Originally Posted by Bobs

There are no Absolutes, guy.

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...is an absolute. It's also WRONG! Racecar spelled backwards will ALWAYS spell racecar! FIGHT ME, BRO!

Not sure If I'm the first from Aussieland in this particular thread, but even I can see the sodium spilling over the cookpot that is the NA community, and I feel for you, the Aussie community has the occasional issue, but generally it's pretty good

I have only played 2 mmo for real and those are FFXI and FFXIV. My memory are not always shiny in both games , some by other people and some because of myself.

In FFXI played on the server Ragnarok and had never had problems with JP only. The only question they asked if I joined there party was *you American ?* Because they had bad exp with Americans and I must say they werent really wrong about it. Encounter myself some really bad appels in a row for weeks at the time. But I got alot of free passes from those JP only party because I was European. I met alot fun/helpfull people worldwide servers were great !

In FFXIV the start was kinda hard on the EU servers. The US servers were flooded so they came to the EU server. Sometimes it was more a Language war in the chat and wasnt really fun. The forum doesnt help.

So I kinda agree with OP. This forum or Resetera(crazy alt-left forum?) with very weird complains + earlier exp with US players doesnt give me really a good vibe about them.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

"evidence"

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So I can't have an "opinion" of what those articles are stating? Just flat facts only from me? It's a fact that a girl is suing a school in Japan over hair discrimination. It's my opinion that it shows that we are all (NA,EU,JP) struggling to define fair social constructs, real or virtual. Please apply similar statement(s) to the other two listed articles.

Is that plain enough?

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

...is an absolute. It's also WRONG! Racecar spelled backwards will ALWAYS spell racecar! FIGHT ME, BRO!

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I have no response to that. But am responding due to previously being accused of not responding.

My response is no response.

The cyst you're seeing exists because, to some more than others, it's fun to !@#$ around with people or to !@#$ around in general. It's less to do with anything political or geographical as just a sub-culture gradually ingratiating itself into a norm, until, say, meme-speech, satiricals, and virtually anything but the direct, normal, or sensible somehow seems a new available norm for conversation and behavior in its own right.

I'm not convinced, however, that there's any severe or fundamental difference between NA, EU, and/or JP communities in this regard. Moreover, what would it matter? Comparatives are useless anyways. When a problem exists, a reason is far more useful than pointing out where the problem doesn't.

Think of it like the 19th century European complaint, among places of casual but sophisticated discussion, of "Why does everyone feel the need to be so disgustingly witty all the time?" Just include also "off-handed", "intentionally offensive", "self-aggrandizing", or "officious" as needed.

omg I really LMAO when I see this topic & the reply (poor Trump lol) ;)
it's all about the characteristics of a nation. Americans seem like play PVP, FPS games & guns...(I am Asian)
and because FFXIV ARR is catering to the WOW player, so you got this feeling

the XIV ARR community is ok, or, average?

the JP MMO, and the FFXI community are second to none, the best,
because the game contents encourage people to help each other

People using politics to defend idiotic behavior is lame. These people probably always have been, and always will be total a**hats. There is not always a bigger picture reason for things.

I will say that, as Malzian said on page one, freedom of speech allows people to completely cast aside any morals they have when they are behind a computer screen.

As Lace Valyria said, if you carry yourself to a reasonable standard, then you will in turn ignore people that don't. A lot of people can't be bothered

If you think NA players being toxic is a new development you haven't been playing MMOs for very long.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

For the JP community: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hdZK22pR5nU

Now, why is NA worse than EU? Simple reason: Freedom of Speech. In the US you are told that you are free to speak your mind, that your opinion is valid no matter how bad it or your attitude may be. We're a very "accept me as I am or go away" oriented country which ultimately allows people to be abusive in how they interact with others. In the EU, you're allowed to have your own opinion, but the social norm is that you generally keep that opinion to yourself unless specifically asked about it, leading to a lot of people biting their tongue more often than slinging abusive comments about your mother... So yes, it's cultural.

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Don't forget (at least coming off to me) that NA are more entitled than JP and EU. From personal experience.

When it comes to the perceived toxicity difference I think it is where your cultural lens is focused. While I think the US is somewhat more toxic a lot has to due with how Americans present themselves publicly. In the US whether in positive or negative ways people tend to be vocal and blunt about the way they present information. In Japan and other Eastern cultures both positive and negative tend to be presented in a more subtle and nuanced way. An outsider or sensitive person looking in could perceive even positive or neutral information as being negative if they don't expect this bluntness. Likewise someone that doesn't understand Japanese could perceive a slight as a positive comment because of its subtly. I liken it to the thing called Southern Civility here in the States. While it sounds all nice and sugary venom can be hidden in the message. Many people who have not grown up around it wouldn't recognize the insult but natives would. As for the EU I think they tend to be more cognizant of what they are saying having dealt with the different country cultures for many years and having learned to be aware of different ways word are interpreted. This means they tend to think about the receiver's interpretation before saying something in mixed company.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

Now, why is NA worse than EU? Simple reason: Freedom of Speech. In the US you are told that you are free to speak your mind, that your opinion is valid no matter how bad it or your attitude may be. We're a very "accept me as I am or go away" oriented country which ultimately allows people to be abusive in how they interact with others. In the EU, you're allowed to have your own opinion, but the social norm is that you generally keep that opinion to yourself unless specifically asked about it, leading to a lot of people biting their tongue more often than slinging abusive comments about your mother... So yes, it's cultural.

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Actually it's more along the lines of if you don't have something nice to say then say nothing, not keep your opinions to yourself. But Europe has a vast amount of countries and cultures so this isn't even true for all of them.

I am inclined to think EU players are more tolerant than NA players because we're used to encountering very different people all the time. Yes americans can differ a lot from one another, but they always share a native tongue. Language shapes how people think and express themselves, as does frequently encountering people who don't have the same native language.

OP answered his question in the title. Cause its full of North Americans.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

I liken it to the thing called Southern Civility here in the States. While it sounds all nice and sugary venom can be hidden in the message. Many people who have not grown up around it wouldn't recognize the insult but natives would.

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Bless their hearts.

Honestly it's because NA has a huge variety of people. Different cultures, different attitudes. Abrasiveness is expected. Japan is very collectivist and everyone is expected to fall in line.

The behavior is not Trump's fault. Rather, Trump is a result of the behavior.

Japan isn't less toxic, America is simply honest about it; the difference between the cultures is the same as the difference between passive aggression and aggression: seven letters and a space. I mean to this end, do people honestly still question why the suicide rates in Japan are so high? While the NA scene is more open about opinions, we tend to not know the difference between facts and whatever baseless crap we hear about on Twatter. Though, what could one expect from people who are driven by emotion coupled with a complete lack of critical though processes (see: your average millennial and/or college student).

JP may not be loud but they cut off people and practically make them a nonentity over some of the smallest perceived slights, and they're not completely above being outright malicious either (koike...)
EU seems more laid back but that's out the window once someone from east of prague shows up. There's still some vestiges of classism among them too, though I find that rarer among gamers.
NA... society is very contentious right now, but I am personally far more comfortable knowing exactly where I stand with people.

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Originally Posted by Khanscott

Japan isn't less toxic, America is simply honest about it; the difference between the cultures is the same as the difference between passive aggression and aggression: seven letters and a space. I mean to this end, do people honestly still question why the suicide rates in Japan are so high? While the NA scene is more open about opinions, we tend to not know the difference between facts and whatever baseless crap we hear about on Twatter. Though, what could one expect from people who are driven by emotion coupled with a complete lack of critical though processes (see: your average millennial and/or college student).

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They don't listen. I'm getting real tired of hearing about how I'm trash and toxic just because I'm NA. I'm not trash and constantly being told that isn't going to help the communities self esteem. Here's a solution for all of these people. If you hate us so much, just go to the JP servers! Just don't come crying when you do something that they don't like and decide to make your life hell for it.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

They don't listen. I'm getting real tired of hearing about how I'm trash and toxic just because I'm NA. I'm not trash and constantly being told that isn't going to help the communities self esteem. Here's a solution for all of these people. If you hate us so much, just go to the JP servers! Just don't come crying when you do something that they don't like and decide to make your life hell for it.

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Except if you don't speak Japanese you can't associate with them at all.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

They don't listen. I'm getting real tired of hearing about how I'm trash and toxic just because I'm NA. I'm not trash and constantly being told that isn't going to help the communities self esteem. Here's a solution for all of these people. If you hate us so much, just go to the JP servers! Just don't come crying when you do something that they don't like and decide to make your life hell for it.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

For the JP community: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hdZK22pR5nU

Now, why is NA worse than EU? Simple reason: Freedom of Speech. In the US you are told that you are free to speak your mind, that your opinion is valid no matter how bad it or your attitude may be. We're a very "accept me as I am or go away" oriented country which ultimately allows people to be abusive in how they interact with others.

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:/ I guess someone has a point.

lol someone actually blamed trump. i knew it.

I'm NA and didn't even know there was a French stereotype of them being bad.

...How did Trump become associated with bad behavior in online communities? There has been bad behavior online since the days of the first message board when people realized that you were anonymous and didn't have to put your real information to have some sort of online profile. Every online community has its own form of toxicity. As has been said before, JP and EU also have their own brand of toxicity, they just express it differently than NA does. To be honest, it's sort of expected at this point that toxicity will happen. That's like a rule these days.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

...How did Trump become associated with bad behavior in online communities? There has been bad behavior online since the days of the first message board when people realized that you were anonymous and didn't have to put your real information to have some sort of online profile. Every online community has its own form of toxicity. As has been said before, JP and EU also have their own brand of toxicity, they just express it differently than NA does. To be honest, it's sort of expected at this point that toxicity will happen. That's like a rule these days.

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because people cant think of anything really bad to pin on the mook, so now people resort to just "blame it on Trump" for every minor grievance they have no matter how ludicrous it may be.

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Originally Posted by Canopia

because people cant think of anything really bad to pin on the mook, so now people resort to just "blame it on Trump" for every minor grievance they have no matter how ludicrous it may be.

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You can't deny Trump has had an affect on some people. He is known to be racist, sexist, elitist and has committed acts that should have had him impeached by now...but he's still president. Trump being in such a high position of authority makes some people think it's okay to openly admit they agree with some of his opinions.

But he isn't why the NA community as a whole is the way it is. Far too many factors are at play to pin it on any one thing. But his influence is certainly not improving it.

Has anyone here actually witnessed the toxicity, such as racial slurs, that the OP is going on about with any degree of frequency?
Personally, I haven't seen a racial slur used in this game at all over the years i've been playing (well, aside from lalas. Those popotos arent people.)
Is this the toxic racist cesspool the OP makes it out to be?

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Originally Posted by winsock

Has anyone here actually witnessed the toxicity, such as racial slurs, that the OP is going on about with any degree of frequency?
Personally, I haven't seen a racial slur used in this game at all over the years i've been playing (well, aside from lalas. Those popotos arent people.)
Is this the toxic racist cesspool the OP makes it out to be?

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I haven't but that isn't to say others might not have. There are a lot of players, therefore a lot of potential interactions.

I've seen non-racist toxicity a few times in DF/NN, but it's not super frequent.

I'm sure it's probably about equal in all the regions. Jerks exist everywhere. Always have. Always will.

Edit:
As far as the trump effect. I do think it's affected people to be more vocal about their personal opinions in non-anonymous settings like real life or real facebook accounts.
But as far as anonymous settings, like the gaming community, if there was an uptick , it would hardly be noticeable. As it is such communities have often been cesspools of trolls and other intolerable people who took advantage of the anonymity to spew whatever they wanted.

In Tera and Wow, I saw it against the brazilians. In this other online game i played called Crystal Saga it was against the filipinos. In an even older little known (and completely gone) online game called Cyber Wars it was a lot against anyone who was European. If anything, I see it less in FF14 than in other games I played.

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Originally Posted by winsock

(well, aside from lalas. Those popotos arent people.)

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https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers...632-nolala.gif

Americans want things NOW.