Why do people say no?

Doesn't matter what kind it is, it shows that most of these people have played FFXI over any other MMO.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

Doesn't matter what kind it is, it shows that most of these people have played FFXI over any other MMO.

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No... it showed that of the 100,000 (or less) people playing at that time... 17% had played FFXI.... that's not exactly what "most" means...
and is by no means indicative of a PS3 audience that could be new to MMos altogether

SE's plan was to tap into the 6 million people that bought FFXIII. People that love Final Fantasy offline and would be open to play a new one online on their PS3
Compared to that 6 million people... 17,000 FFXI players seems really small....
Frankly, SE wanted to appeal to the mass of people that FFXI did not appeal to.
How do I know this?
From an interview on FFXIVcore before launch

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Hiromichi Tanaka also says that it would be very nice if the players of other Final Fantasy games who never played FFXI would play FFXIV. So that is one of the goals.

So basically they're aiming at the Final Fantasy fans who haven't played MMO's due to having a casual aspect of FFXIV, but also at the same time giving the hardcore MMO players something to enjoy as well.

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I really feel like this game can appeal to both the FFXI crowd and the new MMO player...
but the only way to do that is to not think of it like "Which crowd does this content favor" and instead just make it fun....
thats all I want... Make it fun

I personally want long time syncs... I really do... I want ultra challenging content...
There are actually quite a few things from FFXI that would make this game more fun....
But we HAVE TO stop this us vs them mentality... seriously

Why does a game have to be something else? Why can't we, when given the opportunity of a second chance, encourage FFXIV to be it's own MMO?

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Why does a game have to be something else? Why can't we, when given the opportunity of a second chance, encourage FFXIV to be it's own MMO?

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Exactly... I want people 8 years from now to say "I wish this new game was more like FFXIV"

then why do you want mob mounts ;)

I certainly want FFXIV to be it's own MMO but I see no reason to be different just for the sake of being different and cannot understand the resistance to taking inspiration from other existing games. And that's what most people are asking for after all, using an existing idea to build upon for something new in FFXIV.

Some people loved Sky in FFXI but I don't think anyone is demanding a complete copy and paste of sky and inserting it into FFXIV. Some of us want that type of activity added. Strip down to the actual game mechanics of sky, pull out the good parts that worked well and use those elements to build something new and unique, only available in FFXIV. This should be done in addition to the devs coming up with 100% brand new FFXIV ideas and not instead of it.

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Originally Posted by Macha

Wait, what question was this chart asking? I find it very difficult to believe that there are more FFXI players in NA than WoW players.

I don't see this as a reliable representation. Where is this poll from, how many people were surveyed, when was this poll taken, and *WHO* was surveyed?

I'm not bashing XI, and I definitely do not like WoW, but I am suspicious.

Here are some sources:
There are others, but I do not think that worldwide, XI is more popular than WoW.


http://www.brighthub.com/video-games...les/35992.aspx
http://kotaku.com/356297/how-world-o...up-to-the-rest

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It was one of the early XIV players' polls. So it was SE asking only the XIV community that was still around when Yoshida took over.

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Originally Posted by Yelta_Sumasu

I certainly want FFXIV to be it's own MMO but I see no reason to be different just for the sake of being different and cannot understand the resistance to taking inspiration from other existing games. And that's what most people are asking for after all, using an existing idea to build upon for something new in FFXIV.

Some people loved Sky in FFXI but I don't think anyone is demanding a complete copy and paste of sky and inserting it into FFXIV. Some of us want that type of activity added. Strip down to the actual game mechanics of sky, pull out the good parts that worked well and use those elements to build something new and unique, only available in FFXIV. This should be done in addition to the devs coming up with 100% brand new FFXIV ideas and not instead of it.

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This is the problem though. You can have different systems that you might look at being different for the sake of being different, but that is maybe because they are poorly executed or simply just fail all around in any context.

When you start off with one team that fails, and let's remember how similar XIV and XI were when compared to their infancy, the next set of people who come in to clean up the mess have a job to regain trust and to make, "Square-Enix" and, "MMORPG" valid words to be put aside each other.

The solution can have inspiration from parts of other mmo's that makes us feel nostalgic. However, anything beyond that is an impossible feat. What makes people feel those senses of happiness and excitement from the past is entirely situational and something specific to that moment. Outside influences on top of that play a part. You cannot and will not get the feeling back.

I'm willing to compromise and say, this MMO or that MMO had a good system in where it pushed players to work harder and it's environment impressed players and it's monsters we're incredibly frustrating, but fun to down. These general terms is what people should drill into developers heads because not only are they affective, but they are effective as well.

Calling from this general inspiration not tied to any specific system, place, mob, or character of any game is a more clear and motivating way to excite developers, I believe. I think it's more rewarding for a developer to create fresh new environments and systems around these general rules. It gets their creative juices flowing and they can be pushed to provide quality work. Rather than just point to another game and saying, "This specific thing I liked because I was younger then and had more fun with it and I want to forever hold that feeling within me even though it's impossible!" It's counter productive.

Anyway, I'm just adding onto what you were saying. I agree with most of it. Thought there should be a lot more explanation there for the people who can't keep up. ^^

FFXI was like a gorgeous girlfriend that you wanted to show off to your friends but your friends could see that she made you work way too hard to get anywhere with her.

On a more serious note, for every good thing about XI one person can site...another can site something flawed in it, for example...Action House...

Some peeps want an XI stlye AH "because it works", while others remember the flaws and how it was "exploited by RMT".

So what we need is an "Improved XI style AH that can't be exploited by RMT"....or an entirely new system that works "better" than an XI style AH (but better than Market Wards).

LFG is another example. Some would be happy with XI's simple yet effective system while others want a more robust system with more options.

I think that some peeps get frustrated waiting for things "to be implemented in v2.0" and resort to saying things like "just give us XI's system".

As for Content...well we all just want Fun quests/Dungeons/Raids/PvE events, etc and probably don't care where the inspiration comes from as long as it is fun and rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

FFXI was like a gorgeous girlfriend that you wanted to show off to your friends but your friends could see that she made you work way too hard to get anywhere with her.

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Let's be honest... FFXI was a decent looking girlfriend... at best

The specific reason I don't want everything to be like XI is because I was turned off as a customer from XI due to the way the game was setup. Can't do anything without a party, can't get a party unless you're this carbon copy with these skills (a problem rearing its head in this game with Sentinel, but not nearly as bad yet), so you sit in town for hours looking for a party and possibly never get one if you dared to be unique or play a class that wasn't the min/maxers choice.

That kind of press made me walk. I had thought about playing and watched others play but after hearing that kind of stuff from friends who were hardcore into XI and treated that stuff like it was a good thing, I didn't even sign up. To this day I've never played XI and I never will. The whole reason I gave XIV a shot was because the old team working on this specifically said, "it's NOT like FFXI".

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

Why does a game have to be something else? Why can't we, when given the opportunity of a second chance, encourage FFXIV to be it's own MMO?

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FFXIV IS it's own game. It's own world. Now, that doesn't mean that things can't be taken from FFXI that were good. we just don't need this game to have pointless things that FFXI had that make no connection to Eorzea.

Example: Adding mechanics like the 'seek party flag' would be a good thing. Adding an AH when we already have the MH would be pointless unless it was like am AH that actually had live actutions.

FFXIV is FFXIV NOT FFXI-2.

Example:

we need XXX feature from 11 because its in 11 and i like it


this is the kind of thing we need people to stop coming up with as "great ideas"



"we need a dynamis like feature from 11 because it promoted some nice large scale content that stayed relevent for a long time as endgame and was challenging for a long time for people"

this is the kind of idea thats good to pitch


the problem is, the first is all we see around here, people want something because they saw it in another mmo, not because theres a good reason for it, its because it was there

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Originally Posted by Bowen

FFXIV IS it's own game. It's own world. Now, that doesn't mean that things can't be taken from FFXI that were good. we just don't need this game to have pointless things that FFXI had that make no connection to Eorzea.

Example: Adding mechanics like the 'seek party flag' would be a good thing. Adding an AH when we already have the MH would be pointless unless it was like am AH that actually had live actutions.

FFXIV is FFXIV NOT FFXI-2.

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Right, but that doesn't have anything to do with XI other than generic systems that had a highly positive response and usability. If you want to talk about systems that happen to be in XI then talk about the systems. I think it's the way it's presented that's wrong. Not the actual general systems that seemed to have worked.

I have said it before that SE and the dev team should have used things from FFXI in FFXIV and improved on them. I see alot wrong with FFXIV and I also see some good things. Dol and DoH now have the experience points and there is no guessing at when you will level up, this is good. The combat system, targeting system needs a major over haul. I myself wish SE would have used the FFXI combat system, targeting system and improved on it. There main job/sub job was good in FFXI due to the fact you have more options for things where as in FFXIV players are gonna be limited in that area. Weapon skill point or as it is called in FFXI skill ups on weapons would be a nice touch. Reason being we skill up the weapons we learn new skills, it also give players something else to do as in capping weapon/s. I find the repops on FFXIV way to fast and wish they repoped slower as if you are solo its just an up hill battle as mobs can repop before you can kill the next 1 (depending on where and what you are trying to do).

SE and the devs wanted to make a new game from scratch, all new battle systems and such but failed miserably. SE wants to cater to casual players as well as hardcore, but cant seem to get the formula correct. SE should have focused on what always has done well for them, and not gone the route that they did. They should have used things from their previous Final Fantasy titles but instead they decided to use things from other games that other companies use/d. FFXIV should and hopefully will be a game that stands out above the rest. SE needs to make sure that this game isnt like all the other MMO's on the market (dosent mean they cant use and improve things from FFXI). I could also go on and on at what should have been used from FFXI and improved for FFXIV but this post would be way too long.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Let's be honest... FFXI was a decent looking girlfriend... at best

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Looks better than most gals her age.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Looks better than most gals her age.

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I think you already know that if you said that to an actual woman... It wouldn't come off like a compliment and it wouldn't go over very well

because some of us actually hated xi and don't want to see the game go in the same direction. i bought xiv because it had more of an involved feel to it in the original release than i ever had in xi.

i'm not saying alot of the good things from xi could not and should have not been taken from that game, but when i say no most times it comes down to the people wanting xi-2. individual aspects i can like or dislike on a one to one basis, but an entire copy of the game would have me leaving this one as quickly as i left xi. in other words bring up something you would like to see from xi and i would weigh whether it is better than what we have now and if it is there's no problem with it, but an entire copy paste from it with just updated gfx i want nothing to do with.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I think the folks saying no to the whole FFXI-2 deal may be:
*They left Vana'diel, possibly on bad terms, remembering the bad things more than the good.
RL-equivalent: For an ex-, on a bitter break-up, it's easier to focus on all the bad things about the relationship. The good memories/aspects get overshadowed.

*Looking for a different experience than the one they had or other than what FFXI evolved into.
RL-equivalent: For an ex-, if the break-up was mutual... they want to explore what else is out there. And they're hoping the new relationship doesn't become a younger, prettier version of their previous relationship. Others may not mind this so much.

I'm just putting words in people's mouths, I don't know what they think even though they've posted it all over the place. Hehe.

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There is a old proverb. I think it might be Italian in origin it sums up what your talking about here. "A run away monk never speaks well of his abbey"

Systemically there is some good to be harvested from xi. As there is a lot of good stuff that can be gleaned from other popular games.

The flack that is raised from the mention of xi-2 generates from, at least from my perspective the bad taste that xi left in a lot of peoples mouths. Not to mention that a -2 title is a revisit of that world. I thoroughly enjoyed My time in Vanadeil. How ever that time is over as it is for many ex xiers.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

because some of us actually hated xi and don't want to see the game go in the same direction. i bought xiv because it had more of an involved feel to it in the original release than i ever had in xi.

i'm not saying alot of the good things from xi could not and should have not been taken from that game, but when i say no most times it comes down to the people wanting xi-2. individual aspects i can like or dislike on a one to one basis, but an entire copy of the game would have me leaving this one as quickly as i left xi. in other words bring up something you would like to see from xi and i would weigh whether it is better than what we have now and if it is there's no problem with it, but an entire copy paste from it with just updated gfx i want nothing to do with.

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I am sorry sir... you are incorrect....

haha

It's all personal preference. there is no right or wrong.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I am sorry sir... you are incorrect....

haha

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haha go back to your fairy and unicorn server :P

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

haha go back to your fairy and unicorn server :P

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HAHAHAHA.....
Why do people say no???

Because Darkstar touches himself at nite...

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Originally Posted by Rydin

HAHAHAHA.....
Why do people say no???

Because Darkstar touches himself at nite...

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rydin is just mad nobody touches him at night. even shiz left him for another.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

rydin is just mad nobody touches him at night. even shiz left him for another.

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If you were on my server I'd spend all day and nite MPKing you

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8494/popcorn.gif

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Originally Posted by Rydin

If you were on my server I'd spend all day and nite MPKing you

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it's better than what i am afraid you would do. i'd rather die than get whatever you carry.

the doctor said they had a cream, but there was no cure for your last present. :P

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

it's better than what i am afraid you would do. i'd rather die than get whatever you carry.

the doctor said they had a cream, but there was no cure for your last present. :P

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You're the biggest forum troll I've ever known... are you the new Gifthorse? No... you'd be Giftpony

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Originally Posted by Rydin

You're the biggest forum troll I've ever known... are you the new Gifthorse? No... you'd be Giftpony

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ok now jen that was a little below the belt.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ok now jen that was a little below the belt.

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Burn... Nice burn....
This from a career Thaum... we should PVP and you could destroy me with DoTs and Shadowsear... oh wait

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Burn... Nice burn....
This from a career Thaum... we should PVP and you could destroy me with DoTs and Shadowsear... oh wait

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oh you dirty dirty dog. wait til the next temp primal party. i call main heal. i will heal you with my thm with it's sac III .... oh wait.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

oh you dirty dirty dog. wait til the next temp primal party. i call main heal. i will heal you with my thm with it's sac III .... oh wait.

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As soon as 1.21 hits, I wont even need a healer.... PALADIN FOREVER!!!!

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Originally Posted by Rydin

As soon as 1.21 hits, I wont even need a healer.... PALADIN FOREVER!!!!

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only if you are less of a gimp paladin than a gla.....

Shiz does not want to be in this thread, please, thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

actual woman

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I don't understand these words.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I don't understand these words.

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he was just meaning if you tell a lady she's not bad looking for her age she wouldn't think you were being sweet.

Say no cause don't want it.

All iv seen on here, from the people who say no, only say no because they don't want it? FFXI was a grind fest? other silly reasons. Yet it's ok to take stuff from other mmos.... Soooo please give a good reason, I have yet seen one. Because there was tons of great things in FFXI that should have been in the game at launch. As few have stated, we are not asking ffxi-2 We just want the fun stuff that was in ffxi to be in the game with a twist with something new added to it. I don't want an exact copy of sea or sky, but would like areas just as epic and fun without instances.

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Originally Posted by Rokien

All iv seen on here, from the people who say no, only say no because they don't want it? FFXI was a grind fest? other silly reasons. Yet it's ok to take stuff from other mmos.... Soooo please give a good reason, I have yet seen one. Because there was tons of great things in FFXI that should have been in the game at launch. As few have stated, we are not asking ffxi-2 We just want the fun stuff that was in ffxi to be in the game with a twist with something new added to it. I don't want an exact copy of sea or sky, but would like areas just as epic.

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im gonna take your first sentance and say something


most people who want stuff from 11 only want it because its in 11, no other reason


and thats a point i keep trying to make and its why i personaly say no to almost every idea that people post about 11, because the pure reason they post it is because it is in 11


now im not saying i dont want stuff from 11, but the reasoning is sound

Would you say no to this? http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...hing-like-this. I push things from mabinogi all the time, also from other games as well. Not just ffxi, soo, when I say something from ffxi should be in the game, that doesn't mean because it was in ffxi, it's because I enjoyed it and it worked well.