Developers, Please Address Samurai Kicking

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Oh my! Did they just get caught in a lie?!?! I didn't see this coming. I guess this is their second lie in this thread?

/thread

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OBJECTION!

This isn't their thread, unless OP has two accounts.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

OBJECTION!

This isn't their thread, unless OP has two accounts.

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OVERRULED, I changed it ;)

Oh, I totally need that meme in this thread right now

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Originally Posted by Dejavu56

Any SAM dies of gimmick and dps lower than 1st place should be kicked, just saying.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

The only job a good SAM should have to fight against is a good BLM.

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Ah, yes. The official forums where ignorance is bliss. SAM gets shit on by BLM in every possible scenario (with the exception being V6S) and only beats Summoner in V6S and V8S. I mean, in Byakko EX SAM is like 4th to 5th place right now.

Topic: TC, if people are seriously kicking you for the job you're playing, which I've never experienced myself, they're not the kind of people you want to be clearing/farming stuff with anyway - they're most likely the same people who threaten with a kick for messing up while dying to every third mechanic themselves.

Sam is fine as long as the other melee isn't MNK unfortunately those two classes have to fight for a spot as far as savage content but byaako lol you could have any composition...it's not hard

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Originally Posted by Ayer2015

I mean... if they are kicking you from Byakko EX for playing SAM, you probably don't want to bother going in the first place. Generally players like that have high fail rates...

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Agree, you 're better off pf that needs "meta" comp for such easy content than Byakko EX or OS5-6 , you're not here to carry slackers

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Originally Posted by aeoncs

Ah, yes. The official forums where ignorance is bliss. SAM gets shit on by BLM in every possible scenario (with the exception being V6S) and only beats Summoner in V6S and V8S. I mean, in Byakko EX SAM is like 4th to 5th place right now.

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Im curious as to what most BLMs and SAMs are doing there. the BLm we picked up in a clear PT last night did 7k DPS.

Sound fishy, I mean I heard SAM being kick from Savage because they don't know they rotation or low DPS... But from Primal Farm mmmmm specially when Eorzia has more SAM main then futo Japan.... lol

I feel like SAM in OP is being kicked for being a dupe job in a fight where dupe classes ruin LB3 building for cheesing the tiger mechanic. I can't imagine anyone kicking any DPS unless they need a balanced spread of DPS for mechanics (2 ranged, 2 melee) etc..

People seem to forget trolls exist.

Step 1: Set up an 8 man group that has 1 DPS slot open.
Step 2: Kick the rando guy after joining.
Step 3: LOL on discord.

Their party, their rules OP. If they dont want a certain job thats their prerogative. Make your own parties.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Im curious as to what most BLMs and SAMs are doing there. the BLm we picked up in a clear PT last night did 7k DPS.

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I suspect it's more because V6S is more or less a target dummy, SAMs can maintain far better uptime whereas the rest impact them pretty heavily.

Funny thing is.. I was giving our monk a hard time in raid last night, he was playing nin for the later half of Deltascape and decided to roll monk this patch instead.. For some reason. So I always give him a hard time about wanting my trick attack/shadewalker/smokescreen back. Anyways he said he would just switch to Sam, I said there's no difference between Sam or Mnk, both selfish DPS.. So he went Sam to spite me and then we actually made further progress in v7s.. /smh lol

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I suspect it's more because V6S is more or less a target dummy, SAMs can maintain far better uptime whereas the rest impact them pretty heavily.

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I know, but im just curious as to what numbers SAMs are getting.
When we ran with pug SAMs, they ranged from 3.5k to 5.1k (most in the 4.8k range)
So I assumed BLm did more DPS than SAM there, so I was surprised to hear they said SAMs are doing better than BLMs there. (We've only ever had that 1 BLM, so idk whats normal for BLM there.)

Plus, when we had the SAM who did 5.1k DPS, he was ripping threat off our WAR MT, who, was doing 4k DPS, using unchained after every zerk window, until it was time to fell cleave, getting voke/shirked by the PLD, and the SAM was using diversion the moment it was off CD. (We checked fflogs to make sure)
PLD was doing 3k DPS.

The SAM was holding back on DPS, in order to not get Tank Bustered constantly (He was getting killed by the tank buster every fight, so he stopped trying as hard). So We know he could have done more DPS, but we werent sure how much more he could have done, considering our group was pretty much maxing out what a non tank stance tank can generate in threat, w/o a NIN.
(I should also mention our group doesnt try to align raid buffs, so theres a bit of RNG added to when they go off, but we all try to pop them roughly at the same points in the fight. SAM, MNK, RDM and BRD in the case of a SAM pugged)

I saw this thread when it was new, I don't play sam so didn't think much of it.
However this happened yesterday in my discord which is just stupid.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8100/image.jpg
I edited the picture to remove names and take our random chatter.

I have the unpopular opinion that Samurai should have been a Tank. DPS roles had been bloated before StormBlood, adding only DPS was certain cause issues. Look at that... Samurai was designed with no utility, thematically contrived (we already had Monk and Ninja as our far eastern flavor melee DPS jobs), and now reports that it's underwhelming it needs to "fixed" with additional changes to make it viable when it's design hinged on big crit, pose tropes...

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Originally Posted by Alacran

I have the unpopular opinion that Samurai should have been a Tank. DPS roles had been bloated before StormBlood, adding only DPS was certain cause issues. Look at that... Samurai was designed with no utility, thematically contrived (we already had Monk and Ninja as our far eastern flavor melee DPS jobs), and now reports that it's underwhelming it needs to "fixed" with additional changes to make it viable when it's design hinged on big crit, pose tropes...

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I agree with your unpopular opinion :X I think SAM would've been so much cooler as a tank, and more in demand as well. But alas. :( Hopefully we get tank+healer in 5.0 to balance things out a bit.

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Originally Posted by Nerfworthy

I agree with your unpopular opinion :X I think SAM would've been so much cooler as a tank, and more in demand as well. But alas. :( Hopefully we get tank+healer in 5.0 to balance things out a bit.

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Given how parrying with a Katana is a pretty easy way to ruin your blade, as it's really good for slashing and not for parrying, I wanna know how you'd make that work.

Plus after DRK didn't actually increase tank popuation once the hype train died by 3.1... It could have just been left dead.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

I agree Sam can do with utility

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No. No. No. N. O. NO

No more utility on SAM. I wanna see MORE DAMAGE. That's the whole point! My "utility" should be that I hit like the incredible Hulk! You wanna use trick attack? I AM THE TRICK ATTACK!

And buff BLM too while you're at it

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Given how parrying with a Katana is a pretty easy way to ruin your blade, as it's really good for slashing and not for parrying, I wanna know how you'd make that work.

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In a game where we ride dragons and flying horses and create magic out of thin air, and you're questioning how SAM would tank with a katana? o.0

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Given how parrying with a Katana is a pretty easy way to ruin your blade, as it's really good for slashing and not for parrying, I wanna know how you'd make that work.

Plus after DRK didn't actually increase tank popuation once the hype train died by 3.1... It could have just been left dead.

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And cutting down magi tek vehicles, stone golems, Alagan created abominations, ect... Is completely believable? As is the code of bushidio that favors attacking your opponents from behind? Funny that.

Samurai as it was given to us in StormBlood should have been called Ronin. Ronin did not have the money or influence to afford armour and weapons and as such became mercenaries to survive. Samurai had their lords favor and equipment to protect their lords lands and people. There was a difference.

Ronin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C5%8Dnin

Samurai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai

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Originally Posted by Nerfworthy

In a game where we ride dragons and flying horses and create magic out of thin air, and you're questioning how SAM would tank with a katana? o.0

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First, Ananta's Elephant would have made a better example. And we aren't making magic out of thin air, there is a resource. CNJ uses elementals to assist, THM and ACN have their own inner pools, WHM/BLM use Hydaelyn for their resource and caused their own calamity issues that forced those magics to be, lore wise, illegal to access, etc.

But I guess Square could just make some dumb excuse like the katanas are made of this very specific material that can parry anything with no punishments. It's not like the point of the Katana itself is that it's made to be super fast, which makes it bad for parrying due to the design. It should funtion like a greatsword, BLOCK THAT ROCK!

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

If you're with a DRG/NIN, aren't they also buffing the SAM?

SAM brings no utility. If they aren't doing the most damage in the party, they are a wasted slot. That's not trying to be elitist. That's how the job is designed. The only job a good SAM should have to fight against is a good BLM.

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That may be the way the job was intended, but take a look at the current Circles of Answering dummies. These are solo dummies calibrated by the devs of what they expect any given job to do when the dummy was designed. SAM has lost ground to the buffs that have hit the older jobs. Compare Deltascape Savage to Sigmascape Savage Circle of Answering dummies.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

That may be the way the job was intended, but take a look at the current Circles of Answering dummies. These are solo dummies calibrated by the devs of what they expect any given job to do when the dummy was designed. SAM has lost ground to the buffs that have hit the older jobs. Compare Deltascape Savage to Sigmascape Savage Circle of Answering dummies.

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The Circle of Answering has been tested by many to show it isn't calibrated to job specific. More defined role specific (Melee DPS, Rng DPS, etc) so jobs with higher utility and less DPS that meet ilvl requirements prior to (overgearing) couldn't pass many of them with their optimal rotations. Yet, they perform perfectly fine in the content itself.

Looks like the devs are fine with sams being kicked / blacklisted in all content.

Why make a new class at all then if everyone just hates it ? sell lemonade or something.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Looks like the devs are fine with sams being kicked / blacklisted in all content.

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I mean, I never see this rampant blacklisting on Aether......

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I mean, I never see this rampant blacklisting on Aether......

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Don't see it on Primal either. Odd.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Don't see it on Primal either. Odd.

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Primal has had historical PF lockouts on certain jobs especially since the start of SB. SMN and BLM were being kept out, then it was mostly BLM, then BLM and SAM, now mostly SAM, although there is still the stigma people seem to hold about all BLM and SAMs you'll see through PF are not good and will cause wipes, be a dead weight etc. I personally will never lock out a BLM or SAM when I make party listings for farms.

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Originally Posted by Nemekh

Primal has had historical PF lockouts on certain jobs especially since the start of SB. SMN and BLM were being kept out, then it was mostly BLM, then BLM and SAM, now mostly SAM, although there is still the stigma people seem to hold about all BLM and SAMs you'll see through PF are not good and will cause wipes, be a dead weight etc. I personally will never lock out a BLM or SAM when I make party listings for farms.

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Over the past few weeks, I've seen maybe two PF listings exclusively excluding SAM. In other cases, there's either a SAM already in the party, a MNK already in the party, parse runs, looking for very specific jobs (i'm not gonna begrudge a BRD for wanting a DRG) or flat out is allowing all dps. Instances with all dps slots filled and there happens to be no SAM cant be counted for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Adventica6

Looks like the devs are fine with sams being kicked / blacklisted in all content.

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i don't get why people always fall from grace if one cls is locked out by our own community... its nothing new... so many cls faced that destiny in the past and they all are still alive... Brds, Mchs, Smn, Schs, loldrg, Whm, Mnks.... lately Blms & Sams... I don't see anything special this time compared to all the other so called "dead jobs" no-one will ever play in endgame... popularity will change again with new tiers or job-lvl-cap-increases and new skills.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

Over the past few weeks, I've seen maybe two PF listings exclusively excluding SAM. In other cases, there's either a SAM already in the party, a MNK already in the party, parse runs, looking for very specific jobs (i'm not gonna begrudge a BRD for wanting a DRG) or flat out is allowing all dps. Instances with all dps slots filled and there happens to be no SAM cant be counted for obvious reasons.

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It has gotten better for sure, though still occasionally happens. Have seen that it tends to be stricter late at night for NA after prime time hours and there's fewer groups about. Just something I notice because I'm EU based and that's morning+ for me.

What doesn't help is the trickle down effect of speed runner memes such as "No SAMs my man" leading to some players thinking that a given job is more of a detriment.

Reporting the party leaders won't do anything, it could be considered spurious reporting which might actually cause you trouble...

As for pfs with locked out jobs, just make your own or join another one. You have to be going out of your way to really find ones that truly don't want SAM seeing as most parties don't care from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by DaulBan

As for pfs with locked out jobs, just make your own or join another one. You have to be going out of your way to really find ones that truly don't want SAM seeing as most parties don't care from what I've seen.

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You really don't understand. I'm not trying to even force my way into those parties. I just want a damn clear for my weekly. It's gotten so bad that I've geared Ninja to a degree for the sake of just getting in for the week. But guess what if NIN is taken? Better find something else! May as well level healer. People -always- need healers. Huehuehue.

You people say "Create" your own parties. But when the number of people that have cleared that content are only a handful...Why are they going to join your newly fresh party over the party that's practically full unless their slot is also taken? No sense whatsoever.

At first I thought this was just another whine post but after two weeks of paying attention SAM seems like a pariah in pf, nobody really wants them.

I even heard multiple times how SAM is trash and the people who play them are idiots which isn’t something that should be happening but unfortunately it’s happening to SAM mains sorry guys but if we have learned anything from SE and DRK it may just be time to switch classes

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

You people say "Create" your own parties. But when the number of people that have cleared that content are only a handful...Why are they going to join your newly fresh party over the party that's practically full unless their slot is also taken? No sense whatsoever.

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All parties when they're made, assuming that they were created by a single person, start with only one person in them. If someone wants to make a party at all that's what they have to do unless they have some people who want to tag along for the content. Why is it that you should be exempt from that very simple fact? Make your party and wait for it to fill like anyone else who wants to make their own party.

It's literally the same issue that any DPS who are dealing with full PF parties.

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Originally Posted by DaulBan

All parties when they're made, assuming that they were created by a single person, start with only one person in them. If someone wants to make a party at all that's what they have to do unless they have some people who want to tag along for the content. Why is it that you should be exempt from that very simple fact? Make your party and wait for it to fill like anyone else who wants to make their own party.

It's literally the same issue that any DPS who are dealing with full PF parties.

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In a perfect world where the two parties are created at the same time, this would make sense. However, in a REALISTIC scenario, when you log in, there are -NUMEROUS- parties created already and have slots filled. Trying to -attempt- to start your own as a class that is shunned is -typically- not going to be in your favor. And you completely glossed over my issue despite you quoting it.

Have you actually bothered try making God Kefka clears? o_O

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

You really don't understand. I'm not trying to even force my way into those parties. I just want a damn clear for my weekly. It's gotten so bad that I've geared Ninja to a degree for the sake of just getting in for the week. But guess what if NIN is taken? Better find something else! May as well level healer. People -always- need healers. Huehuehue.

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That’s the case with ANY DPS job. I main BRD—what if the BRD spot in a party is taken? Well, I either make my own (where I’m the BRD spot), or find another one. It’s not that hard to just make your own party.

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You people say "Create" your own parties. But when the number of people that have cleared that content are only a handful...Why are they going to join your newly fresh party over the party that's practically full unless their slot is also taken? No sense whatsoever.

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People join for a variety of reasons. They don’t always automatically join the one that’s nearly almost full—I won’t join any party that doesn’t have a DRG because I want to at least parse well, and BRDs cannot get as high of a parse without a DRG. Make your own group if you want a clear on a particular job. All parties have to wait to fill, so it’s not like it’s “unfair” to ask you to wait as well.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

Trying to -attempt- to start your own as a class that is shunned is -typically- not going to be in your favor.

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More often than not, I see groups with all slots open to any job. Looking at PF now, there are plenty of Kefka prog/learning and God Kefka prog groups that do not have SAM locked out—the melee are split within gear drops (e.g., “MNK/SAM”), but most are “MNK/SAM/DRG/NIN” for all 4 melee jobs.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

That’s the case with ANY DPS job. I main BRD—what if the BRD spot in a party is taken? Well, I either make my own (where I’m the BRD spot), or find another one. It’s not that hard to just make your own party.

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....Umm. You're a BARD. Not a job that is shunned from the community. Who are you going to take into a Parse Party? Samurai or Bard????? It's not hard to make them. But again, there's a myriad of parties competing for a handful of players that -cleared- the content.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

People join for a variety of reasons. They don’t always automatically join the one that’s nearly almost full—I won’t join any party that doesn’t have a DRG because I want to at least parse well, and BRDs cannot get as high of a parse without a DRG. Make your own group if you want a clear on a particular job. All parties have to wait to fill, so it’s not like it’s “unfair” to ask you to wait as well.

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Not automatically. Yes, there's X Factors. But you even stated it yourself? You won't join if there's no DRG. So if the Samurai is there with a Monk, would you bother joining then? No, right? Or maybe SAM/NIN~? The latter half is doable, but the point stands you won't be parsing high as you want because there's someone there you don't want. The only time a party waits for anything is usually when there's a healer missing. It's -never- the DPS that's missing from my experience. Though I can see the -occasional- Bard requirement but that's for min/maxing from DRG or vice versa. It's...not even a matter of being asked to wait...Lol. It's just a literal "No one wants Samurai". Perform well, you still aren't wanted. Even a friend who I proved to I'm not a crap Samurai will still say "I don't like it" and will prefer the meta.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

More often than not, I see groups with all slots open to any job. Looking at PF now, there are plenty of Kefka prog/learning and God Kefka prog groups that do not have SAM locked out—the melee are split within gear drops (e.g., “MNK/SAM”), but most are “MNK/SAM/DRG/NIN” for all 4 melee jobs.

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I'd like to see these weekly clears for God Kefka that you see. Cause I promise I wouldn't complain if this wasn't an issue. I dunno when you looked, but I could have very well been in a God Kefka party as Ninja at the time. So at the time -I- was seeking members, that was not the case. Now, do not misunderstand, I do make parties -if- there's not tons of parties up already because, -once again- there is only a handful of people that have cleared. There's reasons why parties wait hours just to even fill for a lockout. And those are Kefka Prog...? I mean, I don't honestly think anyone cares about the comp save doubles when it comes to Prog. But clearing? Different story fam.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

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Then if you’re supposedly seeing so many Kefka weekly clear parties not wanting a SAM (I still don’t see these and we are on the same data center), make your own. It’s that simple.

Even if there were parties that were “rampantly blacklisting” SAMs, you can still bypass it by making your own. A party leader is entitled to their own preferences, as you would be entitled to them if you were party leader. Make your own if it’s such an issue.

I’ve joined weekly clear parties from V5S to V7S (since I am still progging V8S) and none have ever blacklisted SAM. I really don’t think it’s as big of an issue as you’re making it out to be. If it is, for the third time: make your own. Your PF, your rules. So what if you have to wait for it to fill? So does every other PF.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

....Umm. You're a BARD. Not a job that is shunned from the community. Who are you going to take into a Parse Party? Samurai or Bard?????

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Not gonna dupe bard. If there's already a bard in the party, then I'd rather a SAM than a second bard any day of the week. Just how the cookie crumbles.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

....Umm. You're a BARD. Not a job that is shunned from the community. Who are you going to take into a Parse Party?

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could you please take a step back from your blind ego and start thinking about the things you say? The most popular jobs ironically face the same problem than the less popular ones - our spots are always taken as well after login - old age smn speaking here (4.1 hello. \o/ ) - so most of the time those cls have to set their party from the scratch as well. Live is savage you know....