The mentor system needs to be reevaulated.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am sorry to the people who genuinely use the Mentor program, and the 'Novice Network' as it was intended, but it has been co-opted by people who have no intention whatsoever of actually being a mentor, actually helping others, or anything as it was advertised. All they want is the shiny glam crown, and easy mentor roulletes for their pretty little mount that they DO NOT deserve. I do not think there is any way to actually rebuild the system, and prevent abuse, so the system should just be removed. It is flawed at it's core.

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Yeah. Sadly this is a case of the many outweigh the few. Sorry again for your bad experience with mentors, hopefully things start looking up for you.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Yeah. Sadly this is a case of the many outweigh the few. Sorry again for your bad experience with mentors, hopefully things start looking up for you.

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The gall of these people to dangle MY ACCOUNT over my head. An account I have invested 2000 hours into, and hundreds of dollars into (Not bragging, I am just highlighting my investment, and what I would stand to lose). The fact that just criticizing the system as a whole; the club they are a part of is enough for them to do this. Unacceptable.The archaic system needs to go. It is a failed experiment.

Things are looking up. I have resigned my mentor status, and don't feel dirty anymore. Just hiding the crown isn't enough, a full resignation is what is necessary to get away from the filth that is the 'Mentor' program.

I think they should just disincentivize the whole thing so that the people that are put the Mentor crown on are there purely to assist others. Status should automatically turn off if they don't que with any sprouts or flowers over a given time too.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I have dug up this thread, rather than create my own.

A bad experience on my alt, has opened my eyes to just how abysmal the state of this system is. If you want a point of reference, and context I have already posted about the exchange in the "Tales of Duty Finder" thread. Summarized I was berated by a mentor on my alt, I asked how I could properly report someone who abuses the title of "mentor", I was baited in the 'Novice Network', then I was threatened in tell. I was kicked out of the 'Novice Network' by a random mentor for explaining my frustration with the system as a whole, all the while they (mentors in general) hypocritically talk about anything AND everything in the supposed 'Novice Network'. There own personal chatroom. The 'Novice Network' is being subverted by these kinds of people. The sheer malice is appalling, and eye opening. I will be renouncing my mentorship status, and I will be staying as far away as possible from the 'Novice Network'. I was never a perfect mentor, I didn't help enough, and usually only when asked, so by my own standards I am undeserving of the title anyway.

The system rightfully needs a complete overhaul from the ground up - if not dissolved in it's entirety. That isn't to say there are not good mentors out there, there are. I am not denying that fact. I am stating that the many bad ones, overshadow those that are good, make a mockery of the system, and use it not as a means to "mentor", or assist new/returning players, but is used, rather, as a popularity contest. A pretty golden crown next to their name; bragging rights (if you can even claim that). The requirements are too low, the expectations are too low, the fact that it gives you any crown you want when you meet the (laughable) threshold to become a mentor. A crown, give me a break. I am not a game designer I will not claim that I have a complete plan laid out on how to overhaul, and ultimately improve the system, but the fact remains - it needs to be done.

There is a new expansion coming out, new/returning players will be coming in droves. They will be greeted, and encouraged to join this 'Novice Network' that isn't worthy of them. Get it done. I always knew it needed an overhaul, but I have never felt so appalled as now, after witnessing firsthand the malice a "mentor" is capable of. Threats, harrassment, abuse of power.

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What "power" does a mentor even have? You just fell for a troll that could of been anybody really. Although it's regrettable, you are also at fault for taking everything they say at face value, crown or no crown.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

What "power" does a mentor even have? You just fell for a troll that could of been anybody really. Although it's regrettable, you are also at fault for taking everything they say at face value, crown or no crown.

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Apparently, they have the power to kick whomever they want out of the 'Novice Network', and apparently this person specifically has done it before. Granted, I never actually used the 'Novice Network' in any serious way, so I don't actually know exactly how it is run.

It's the intent. The fact that they think they can get away (and have been) treating anybody they perceive as 'lesser' like trash, while sporting the title of 'Mentor'.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently, they have the power to kick whomever they want out of the 'Novice Network', and apparently this person specifically has done it before. Granted, I never actually used the 'Novice Network' in any serious way, so I don't actually know exactly how it is run.

It's the intent. The fact that they think they can get away (and have been) treating anybody they perceive as 'lesser' like trash, while sporting the title of 'Mentor'.

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Oooooo what power, you don't get to see the casual chatter of the novice network... Get over it, you're throwing a tantrum over what's essentially just getting a splinter.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Oooooo what power, you don't get to see the casual chatter of the novice network... Get over it, you're throwing a tantrum over what's essentially just getting a splinter.

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I agree it is laughable that these people grasp at whatever form of "power" they can attain, and abuse it, even for something as meaningless as the 'Novice Network' chat.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I agree it is laughable that these people grasp at whatever form of "power" they can attain, and abuse it, even for something as meaningless as the 'Novice Network' chat.

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Typically those said people would've had to pour in time and some money for subs to get to where they need to be. I don't know the story, but there is no 'power' in the Novice Network chat. It's THEIR JOB as Mentor to help out and set an example; SE has guidelines that state such and more the moment you ask the Mentoring Guide if you want to become a Mentor, let alone accepting the terms. It also can be reported if things get out of hand, but I haven't seen too many cases where that has been the case.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Apparently, they have the power to kick whomever they want out of the 'Novice Network', and apparently this person specifically has done it before. Granted, I never actually used the 'Novice Network' in any serious way, so I don't actually know exactly how it is run.

It's the intent. The fact that they think they can get away (and have been) treating anybody they perceive as 'lesser' like trash, while sporting the title of 'Mentor'.

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let me get this straight: you're mad you got kicked by someone from a channel you never use

and square should delete the entire mentor system because you got kicked from a channel you never use

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Originally Posted by van_arn

let me get this straight: you're mad you got kicked by someone from a channel you never use

and square should delete the entire mentor system because you got kicked from a channel you never use

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Nope. I am using the joke of the 'Novice Network' as a point to highlight of one of the many reasons that the mentor system as a whole is flawed, and people like you are laser-focusing on this point for some reason. It is just one of the many reasons why the "Mentor" program is a joke, or do you have an actual counter-argument that, in it's current state, everything is fine?

I asked for help in the 'Novice Network' on a perceived "new" character, and was attacked in dozens of tells, for having a critical opinion of it, then eventually kicked from it, all the while receiving multiple tells after with different, conflicting opinions. It was a clown show.

I know you leave mentor roulette queues you don't like, how close are you to your mount? Can't waste time on failure, am I right?

Maybe they should change the symbol to a giving hand or a shovel.

Edit: or a watering can

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Originally Posted by Kukajoo

I agree the mentor system isn't working as intended at all. I believe a simple solution to this is to add a mentor exclusive rating system, when players are in a dungeon with a mentor they may (much like a commendation) upvote or downvote a mentor and perhaps attach a message on why they thought the mentor was either good or bad. Highly rated mentors crown icon may become perhaps shinier or prettier looking while bad mentors crowns rust and rot. If a mentor reaches a certain threshold of downvoting they lose the status altogether and are temporarily suspended from the program. Perhaps with a system like this we may see some improvements.

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But....... We can choose not to even show our crown. Plus, that is giving people TOO much power lol plus I can hear it now:

DID YOU JUST GIVE ME ADVICE WITH NO MALICIOUS INTENT!? IF YOU DON’T BOW TO ME AND APOLOGIZE EVERY THREE SECONDS THIS ENTIRE DUNGEON, I’M GIVING YOU A BAD RATING!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Nope. I am using the joke of the 'Novice Network' as a point to highlight of one of the many reasons that the mentor system as a whole is flawed, and people like you are laser-focusing on this point for some reason. It is just one of the many reasons why the "Mentor" program is a joke, or do you have an actual counter-argument that, in it's current state, everything is fine?

I asked for help in the 'Novice Network' on a perceived "new" character, and was attacked in dozens of tells, for having a critical opinion of it, then eventually kicked from it, all the while receiving multiple tells after with different, conflicting opinions. It was a clown show.

I know you leave mentor roulette queues you don't like, how close are you to your mount? Can't waste time on failure, am I right?

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You have no idea what you're talking about. Considering your overblown rage over the topic, it looks best they removed you from the channel to contain the drama.

And you really don't understand the mount Isn't even an incentive. When I say something isn't worth my time, it's because some sprout wants me to waste my time on them when someone else could make better use of it.

For example, praetorium in its nerfed state is a waste of my time due to my fairy being able to main heal it. I could be better spent on healing Tsukiyomi.

That's all to the side though, you're simply tilting at windmills. Square isn't going to delete the system, and you aren't able to make people play the way you want them to.

If that lack of control upsets you, please be upset in private.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

You have no idea what you're talking about. Considering your overblown rage over the topic, it looks best they removed you from the channel to contain the drama.

And you really don't understand the mount Isn't even an incentive. When I say something isn't worth my time, it's because some sprout wants me to waste my time on them when someone else could make better use of it.

For example, praetorium in its nerfed state is a waste of my time due to my fairy being able to main heal it. I could be better spent on healing Tsukiyomi.

That's all to the side though, you're simply tilting at windmills. Square isn't going to delete the system, and you aren't able to make people play the way you want them to.

If that lack of control upsets you, please be upset in private.

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Agreed. Why bother helping that sprout when someone else could, whether I am queuing up for the "mentor" roulette, and maybe even wearing the mentor crown, or not? Honestly, my time is worth more than theirs!

I don't know how your time could be any better spent, since by your own admission you try to abandon, or just straight up leave when the going gets tough!

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Originally Posted by Marjoram101

Is this a common thing that mentors do when they queue for mentor roulette and they get an extreme trail? I understand if they don't have time to teach an extreme fight, but wouldn't make sense just to leave?

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Originally Posted by van_arn

If I can't immediately put up a vote abandon, I leave whether there's a penalty or not

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As an example.

Why do you go queue up for the mentor roulette? What is your motivation? Are you there specifically to "mentor" other players, because in all your posts that I have read that seems to not be the case at all, or is it just routine? In fact you seem to berate most people for doing something wrong. If you seemingly think the system is fine, why do you feel the need to abandon duties?

I do not expect them to change anything, what gave you that impression? They need to, but they probably won't. They have washed their hands of it, and seemingly ignore reports. A complete lack of oversight.

https://i.imgur.com/M07d97i.png

What a joke, am I right?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Agreed. Why bother helping that sprout when someone else could, whether I am queuing up for the "mentor" roulette, and maybe even wearing the mentor crown, or not? Honestly, my time is worth more than theirs!

I don't know how your time could be any better spent, since by your own admission you try to abandon, or just straight up leave when the going gets tough!



As an example.

Why do you go queue up for the mentor roulette? What is your motivation? Are you there specifically to "mentor" other players, because in all your posts that I have read that seems to not be the case at all, or is it just routine? In fact you seem to berate most people for doing something wrong. If you seemingly think the system is fine, why do you feel the need to abandon duties?

I do not expect them to change anything, what gave you that impression? They need to, but they probably won't. They have washed their hands of it, and seemingly ignore reports. A complete lack of oversight.

https://i.imgur.com/M07d97i.png

What a joke, am I right?

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Extremes, and other endgame content, are a waste of time outside of party finder. The best advice I can offer is to use party finder and encourage a party collapse so no one needs to waste their time on someone too lazy to pf.

Endgame content, by nature of being endgame, is not the responsibility of a player willing to help new players. That player is better spent helping a new player get their first clear of something like Tsukiyomi, shinryu, or castrum Albania.

Frankly, if I had seen you rage in novice network the same way you're airing dirty laundry now, attacking anyone and everyone that dares by contrary to you, I would have happily kicked you from the channel myself.

Not because I care anything for your opinions or whether you might be right or wrong, but because you aren't using the channel in a constructive way.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Extremes, and other endgame content, are a waste of time outside of party finder. The best advice I can offer is to use party finder and encourage a party collapse so no one needs to waste their time on someone too lazy to pf.

Endgame content, by nature of being endgame, is not the responsibility of a player willing to help new players. That player is better spent helping a new player get their first clear of something like Tsukiyomi, shinryu, or castrum Albania.

Frankly, if I had seen you rage in novice network the same way you're airing dirty laundry now, attacking anyone and everyone that dares by contrary to you, I would have happily kicked you from the channel myself.

Not because I care anything for your opinions or whether you might be right or wrong, but because you aren't using the channel in a constructive way.

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Are they? They are terms you agree to, a mentor doesn't just help new players they also agree to help other players. Is it because helping is too hard for you? If you don't like it, resign the title. You can still "help" the way you want without the title of "Mentor" or the crown.

Again the focus on the "Novice Network", as if I care. I already left that on my alt, and never joined it once on my main. I said a total of two sentences replying to other people stating that, "reporting a mentor isn't a thing" despite if you look at my screenshot above, it mostly certainly is advertised as a thing, it is a thing that a mentor agrees to. Forget the 'Novice Network', but if you don't want to I hope you also actively kick the people just using it as a chat room. I wasn't really seeing that on my alt, maybe it's just double standards. Who knows?

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Endgame content, by nature of being endgame, is not the responsibility of a player willing to help new players. That player is better spent helping a new player get their first clear of something like Tsukiyomi, shinryu, or castrum Albania.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I'm perfectly fine kicking someone that causes multiple wipes 70+, first time or no, no matter what role.

You meet your party's expectations or boot.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Are they? They are terms you agree to, a mentor doesn't just help new players they also agree to help other players. Is it because helping is too hard for you? If you don't like it, resign the title. You can still "help" the way you want without the title of "Mentor" or the crown.

Again the focus on the "Novice Network", as if I care. I already left that on my alt, and never joined it once on my main. I said a total of two sentences replying to other people stating that, "reporting a mentor isn't a thing" despite if you look at my screenshot above, it mostly certainly is advertised as a thing, it is a thing that a mentor agrees to. Forget the 'Novice Network', but if you don't want to I hope you also actively kick the people just using it as a chat room. I wasn't really seeing that on my alt, maybe it's just double standards. Who knows?

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The issue you seem to have its with the extralegal.

I don't care what little scraps of paper you want to throw around, and I extra don't care what you think I should do. I mentor because I enjoy helping new players, and I go as far as to join sprout fcs so those sprouts actually don't fall into the freestyle morass that plagues many new player fcs.

As for extralegal, it doesn't matter what your beloved image copypasta says if the community -- and by extension, a single mentor in that community -- decides endgame content isn't viable in random pugs.

Parties don't collapse because I force them to, they collapse because enough people decide to leave or click yes to vote abandon.

Square can't do anything about this, other than make content people don't want to dodge.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

The idea of watering can instead on crowns isn't that bad at all :D

Maybe not that extreme... but a symbol more towards to "helping people" meaning, than "above people" as a crown suggests, is welcome.

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Yea I like that actually, As a mentor I would actually prefer that considerably. Maybe I’ll draw up a design for it and try to get movement for it on the forums

After years of trying to help and get help in Novice Network, I finally resigned my mentor status. Novice Network is nothing but a popularity contest, no matter the server you go to. I'm going to miss some of my friends, but the absolute trainwreck of the chat is just not worth it-- and so said most people, but I just wanted to enjoy the chat so badly.