I know, I'm just pointing out that the size of the available population with housing is much much smaller than those without housing. Ultimately its impact would likely be negligible towards freeing the server of enough pop to be unlocked once again. It would no doubt encourage people to camp the housing districts more on the off chance a house opened up though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joven
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11-19-2017, 02:53 AMDeaconMoore
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11-19-2017, 02:58 AMNaunetI have always thought it utterly idiotic that you can't even make alts when you're already on a locked server. But yes, while Balmung was/is overpopulated, it is hard to deny that the extended chokehold SE has put it in has damaged the scope of certain communities on that server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikki
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11-19-2017, 03:03 AMRokkeIf you scout out rp across servers you'll wind up Mateus lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
You're repeating the same point without once commenting on how other mmos have unofficial rp servers or how people will be forced to deal with extremely limited contacts. You're on the new rp servers, its easy to say "SPREAD OUT" when you're already at the best spot xD -
11-19-2017, 03:11 AMJovenUnfortunately housing will always be a crapshoot no matter how they handle it. I can't think of a way for them to un-bungle it so everyone has a fair chance outside of instanced plotsQuote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
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11-19-2017, 03:14 AMDeaconMooreI joined mateus during HW well before it was "the rp spot to be" with the release of SB. Mateus despite being one of the smallest servers at the time still had an rp community. Yes, it's been bolstered but if you people keep up with the bs that its the rp spot to be it will no doubt join Balmung as locked eventually. As I said before, when I joined the game I scouted the servers and many of them do have rp communities on them. If you go there and bolster them they will grow too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
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11-19-2017, 03:53 AMRokkeI won't deny that rp exists on other servers - the pools of people are just more limited when they are spread out. I moved off Faerie over 2 years ago because I was frustrated that I couldn't find the contacts I was looking for.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
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11-19-2017, 04:24 AMValkyrie_LennethThose pools would probably be bigger if everyone didn't tell everyone else "only go to Balmung, you can bypass the character creation lockouts by paying for a transfer."Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
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11-19-2017, 05:17 AMKaethraThis in itself isn't a bad thing. Daybreak does this with both EQ games. They'll release an expansion that raises their level cap by 5, then after that they release what is called Content Expansions. They do NOT raise the level cap, and don't really advance the story in a major way, sticking to the plot started in the leveling expansion. So you get a trilogy of expansions. The benefit is, you remember those 6 zones you did in SB from 61-70? Imagine that effort being put into dungeons and raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
The result is an content release schedule your average player is likely not going to get bored with anytime soon. In many cases they don't even complete everything before the next leveling phase which is used as a bit of a 'catchup'.
Stormblood feels like a content expansion. The story is directly after HW's. And does much of the same stuff. But in their 'wisdom' SE decided to raise the level cap by 10. That requires leveling content. 10 levels worth. Think about that. Take ARR and you'll notice its 50 levels. So an expansion that raises the level cap by 10 needs 20% of the originals content. That's alot of time, alot of resources needed.
Now imagine if SB was a content expansion and level cap was still 60. All those dungeons and trials 61-70 would be 60. And we'd have twice as many of them. And that'd just be with the 4.0 launch. the downside is the story would be focused on Doma for the entire 4.0-4.x cycle. 5.0-5.x would be Ala Mihgo. The story would come slower, but the content would be literally doubled.
Point is, you can have expansions be extensions of expansions. And do it well. But you have to make sure we're not simply 'starting over'. Like it felt with 61. That's really my only complaint. In reality I'm a bit impressed with the 4.0 content so far. 4.1 seems a bit lacking though. -
11-19-2017, 05:43 AMRokkeQuote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
F-forward and back and then go forward and back and then go forward and back...Wyrmrest, Moonguard, Emerald Dream, Jiwan, Orwen (Calpheon 2)- Rpers clump together. I expect Bless to form an unofficial hangout whenever it finally releases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
I wish small servers the best of luck growing their rp communities, but there will always be a hub people flock to. If/when Mateus ever locks, a new server will be picked. To expect otherwise is silly. -
11-19-2017, 06:17 AMNezeriusThat's not really how it works for the majority of the roleplayers. There's a clear reason why roleplayers flock to a few specific servers, which is to make it easier to find like-minded players who they want to roleplay with.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
There's always going to be a few, here and there. Ones that prefer a small, tight knit RP community, or ones that want to start a new one on a less populated server. However, these are the minority.
Besides, this behaviour isn't just limited to roleplayers. Just look at Gilgamesh, and the amount of people that used to transfer there. They went there because it has/had a large hardcore raiding community, making it easier to find a static.
Telling roleplayers on unofficial RP servers to spread out more, is akin to telling hardcore raiders in a large established raiding community to just go to a smaller server to start a new raiding community on it. Why would they go through all that effort, with the uncertainty of it actually being successful?
On the subject of "exposing" non-roleplayers to roleplay; while I can only speak for myself, I really have no interest in trying to convince a non-roleplayer like that. I'd rather spend my time roleplaying with other roleplayers. -
11-19-2017, 06:32 AMDeaconMooreI do get that. It does suck to not see what you're looking for and to have to continue the search. The size of the pool doesn't matter though if you find what you're looking for. You can be surrounded by a thousand RPers but does that really matter if your group is only 5 strong and you're having fun? It's just the 5 of you when you really look at it. The rest are just nondescript extras in the background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
Repeating the same action over and over expecting different results I hear is often called insanity. If you insist on continuing this course you really have no right to complain about server locks and stagnating communities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
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11-19-2017, 06:41 AMNezeriusI'm going to assume that you have absolutely no experience with anything roleplay related. Maybe if you find the perfect 4 players, whose interests perfectly line up with what you want to do in RP, but that's highly unlikely to be happening on a server with a very small RP community. This isn't as easy as getting 4 others to do PvE content with, as each server generally has way more players interested in that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
Which wouldn't have been an issue if SE had actually bothered making an official RP server, instead of Balmung turning into a combination of RP and non-RP players.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
And like I said in my previous post, the same can be applied to Gilgamesh, a server that's also stagnating, and that certainly isn't caused by RPers. -
11-19-2017, 06:43 AMDeaconMooreSo a newbie to rp isn't an RPer? Huh, I wonder how RP even got its start. Did you spring from the ground fully formed and programmed with the knowledge already? I know I didn't...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
And exposing a non-rper to rp doesn't mean you have to make any special effort. People simply walking by your group doing it's thing are getting exposed passively. If they're interested, they'll observe and maybe interact. If you're just going to be a snob to them because they failed to properly do something, well, you're certainly not helping grow the community either. -
11-19-2017, 06:51 AMRokkeIm actually content on Balmung, lock or no. Feel free to check my post history- imo, the locks are an unfortunate but necessary evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
Closest thing I've got to a horse in the race is explaining why rpers flock to these large communities. Its a phenomenon that happens in pretty much every modern mmo that doesn't have an official RP server: the more potential rpers you get to choose to interact with, the higher the potential of you finding your perfect cozy corner in the world a la
http://i66.tinypic.com/n4k5l3.jpg
:3 -
11-19-2017, 06:54 AMZarabeth
Isn't there a section of the forums specifically for each world? Oh yeah there is!!! Go here to post the daily threads about opening Balmung again. Seriously, be considerate. You already clog up your world at least stick to your world forum area for these pointless threads. They aren't going to open up Balmung until the population stabilizes. You want Balmung open? Move.
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11-19-2017, 07:00 AMNezeriusA newbie to RP is already an RPer, not a non-RPer, because they've already set the first step by showing interest in RP themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
Which is very unlikely to happen on servers with a small RP community.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
In a previous post, you mentioned non-RPers who have heard about RP, and might be interested, but don't know where to go looking. What's stopping these non-RP players from simply asking around on their server (through ingame, or out of game means)? Why does it require them to be "exposed" to it by randomly happening to run into a group of people RPing?
Same can be said about any groups of players, from PvE to PvP and RP.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
It should've been locked from transfers way, way sooner, while keeping the (limited windows) of character creation available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokke
Like the community team actually reads the realm forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarabeth
Better hope that Leviathan's population remains stabilized, then. It's already on the path to surpass Gilgamesh, a server that's still locked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarabeth
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11-19-2017, 08:06 AMKaethraAs others said, newbie RPers are RPers. Non-RPers are Non-RPers. Its a simple either you are or you're not.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
When I first played Everquest and saw Fironia Vie (Roleplaying Preferred) on the server list, I had never RP'd on a MMO before, never even saw RP on a MMO before. I still knew what the server was even before I played on it. I didn't have to login to it to experience it first.
If someone doesn't want to be like a missionary and convert NonRpers to RPers, they shouldn't feel like they need to. Just like statics shouldn't feel like they should gear up and train every applicant. Some groups even require RPers to be somewhat experienced in RP. Nothing wrong with that either. Just like Newbies can learn content together, newbie RPers can learn to RP together. -
11-19-2017, 09:46 AMDeaconMooreSo you RPers do just spring from the ground fully formed and ready to go then? 20+ years now, I must have been doing it all wrong...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
A non-rper is someone that's never rped before or doesn't like it and doesn't care to do it. A newbie to rping is someone trying it for the first time. A newbie rper is someone that's tried it, liked it, and learning. See, there's normally a transition from non-rper to rper, well for us mere humans anyway.
I never said you or anyone has to go out there like a missionary to convert people either. I was just saying that if someone sees a group rping and they haven't experienced it themselves before simply being exposed to it in that fashion can potentially lead to the creation of a new rper.
Now as far as newbies learning together, well, you do understand why we have schools in the real world yes? Without some form of direction sure they could muddle through it amongst each other. And they may indeed have fun doing so. The results of that kind of learning when it meets an experienced group though... those poor noobs is all I have to say about that. Yes you don't have to take them on yourself if you don't want to, no one's going to force you too. If you always push the newbies out though your community begins to dwindle. -
11-19-2017, 10:40 AMCaTi
It's not just about the numbers though. It's about predicting what would happen if they lifted the locks. Leviathan has never really had the same level of player zeal in trying to get on to the server as Balmung and Gilgamesh. As long as the strong possibility exists that people will just rush the opened servers (which the many threads like this basically indicate) then it's highly unlikely the locks will come off until active player populations have reached near irrecoverable levels (not "stagnating" or "choking" but actual bottom tier, near dead world levels)
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11-19-2017, 10:42 AMBubblyBoar
Souds to me like SE's plan is working perfectly. Keep it up!
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11-19-2017, 01:11 PMKaethraMaybe you were doing it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
I knew what a Roleplaying Preferred server was nearly 20 years ago. My only experience prior to that was rolling dice in HS. And I know without having to look it up that Balmung is the 'unofficial' RP server since SE didn't tag one. I've seen Non-RPers over 20 years and over a dozen games say why they typically join RP servers even though they don't themselves RP.
If you don't get it, I don't know what else to tell you.
An RPer Roleplays.
A Non-RP doesn't.
Its not hard. You become a Roleplayer via a desire to Roleplay. You don't need to be taught how.
You didn't need to be taught how to use WASD or Control stick to move did you? No, you didn't. -
11-19-2017, 02:44 PMKukajoo
Balmung is locked because its bursting at the seams isn't it? A bit of "death" is what it needs to be able to thrive in the future if you ask me, like burning a forest so new trees can grow. To me the slowdown people are complaining about is really just the server slowly bit by bit dropping to what should be a regular amount of activity. Im sure square will unlock it once they feels its leveled off again, till then it doesn't need to stay overpopped.
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11-19-2017, 06:18 PMDeaconMooreSeriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
Well when I first encountered a game stick at the wee age of 3 when my dad brought home a brand new Atari 2600, I did in fact have no clue about its function until it was demonstrated to me. We humans have to actually experience things, learn and be taught. Our preprogrammed instinctual knowledge doesn't cover things like language, computer use, rp etiquette and conventions, what server 20 years later is unofficially tagged an rp server etc. Its just basic stuff like breathing, holding your breath underwater, pain means bad, etc, that we get preprogrammed with. All that other stuff is learned and taught to us. -
11-19-2017, 07:13 PMMistakeNotIn a few rare cases that may be the case, but for the majority of RPers they got interested by reading about RP elsewhere (on a forum or whatever.)Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
Watching other people RP is very ofte quite boring, so the only ones likely to do that are the ones already interested in RP.
In other words, "exposing" people to RP is not useful as a recruiting tool. -
11-19-2017, 10:28 PMKaethraThat's where you're wrong. As humans we created the control stick to serve a purpose. Just like Roleplay, no one had to teach you as a child to go out and pretend to be something when you played. You just did. Because its simple creativity. An attribute that cannot be taught, refined with discipline and practice. But cannot be taught.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
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11-19-2017, 10:49 PMLewtskie
One person or group of persons, who's experiences and understandings in life, come up with the ideas for tools. And when they do, not every entity on the planet instantly knew and understood the purpose and function of said tool. When seeing a tool for the first time, you are not instantly filled with the knowledge of what it is and it's use, you need to either experience it first hand with experimentation, or be taught by being shown or told.
A child with an active imagination will often wish to play out a scene or story they have heard or experienced. A child doesn't just do, there are factors leading up to that. Likewise, other means of playing out roles or 'pretend' doesn't just come naturally. You don't instinctively know what roleplaying on the internet was, through forums or games or chats. There was a step before that leads you to it, and before that step was one before it.
I was an imaginative kid growing up, I would roleplay with my toys or whatever all the time, but I didn't just know of roleplaying in any sort of form online. I didn't know to just look either. I remember seeing the old forum RPs back when for the first time, and was fascinated by them. Never realized RPing in a game was a thing either until I played Tera once upon a time. And not being someone who actively seeks it out, but on seeing it, was interested in giving it a try. -
11-20-2017, 12:20 AMKewitt
Sorry to disagree with OP,
I love balmung being locked.
Our FC has gotten 10 New invites in the last 2 weeks.
We also have a cross world discord, Where we do cross world RAIDing with 10 didn't FC on 4 different worlds.
Also if you feel balmung is dead switch servers and you will find new players.
That use Leveling items and story skip items and can't RAID worth anything. -
11-20-2017, 01:28 AMNaunetI just want to say... I had no idea what roleplay was when I was first introduced to it back in 2008. Heck, I didn't know what this game "World of Warcraft" was that my roommate told me about and encouraged me and my other roommate to play. I didn't even know what an MMORPG was. Without that roommate, I probably would to this day still not know, as those things simply were never on my radar. My own entry into roleplay (beyond childhood games of pretend) was very much dependent on someone going out of their way to show me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
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11-20-2017, 01:39 AMRiardon
The game is limited by design. This is why we can't have large scale battles, open world content like Sieges or bosses and this is why the game is structured and fragmented in small instanced zones. I don't know why and how they did this (although I can imagine the reason) but it's the way it is now. Look what happened with Ixion fate and Odin fate back in 2.0. Or with Northern Shroud when it was populated. The game can't take many people at the same time. It wasn't designed for open world content from the beginning. They also never expected that this game will be so successful. They never expected all those people. I don't know if they can make structural upgrades to their code but it seems it's very difficult. I hope they will do something about it and start upgrading what needs to be upgraded be it code, servers, graphics engine or everything. Housing is also a victim of this whole thing. Too many limitations around for a big MMORPG like this.
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11-20-2017, 02:09 AMDeaconMoore...Huh? In your very own example here someone talked about RP on a forum and a person reading about it got interested in it as a result. In other words you exposed people to what RP is, and potentially recruited them as a result...:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by MistakeNot
Humans did indeed create the control stick to serve a purpose. We mere humans didn't just will it into existence like all knowing gods though. It's creation by humans was the direct result of knowledge learned and taught being applied through trial and error to create the first control stick to fulfill this need for one. And after these meek creatures called humans finally created it, they then had to teach others how to use it properly and make more by teaching them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaethra
A human child does not go out and pretend to be an indian or a cowboy without first learning what an indian or a cowboy is from somewhere. Nor do they have any idea of the interaction of said "cowboys and indians" without being exposed to knowledge from an outside source of some kind. They imitate what they see, hear and learn and it's pretty basic to that.
Now imitation and RP are related yes but that's not just what it is. Another word we humans usually use for RP is "Acting". We actually do have schools that teach this skill. Granted not every actor or actress coming out of said schools is going to win an Oscar or Academy Award, but by the same token I've borne witness to some pretty cringe worthy rp. A little more learning for some couldn't hurt. -
11-20-2017, 02:31 AMNezeriusI'm assuming you're talking about Naunet's post on how they were introduced to roleplaying? That doesn't really sound like a passive way of someone getting into RP. That sounded more like the roommate going out of their way to suggest/show something.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
But seeing as one example apparently discredits the words of the one you quoted, despite the fact that rare cases do exist, let me throw in an example of myself.
No one showed me what RP was, when I started playing WoW in 2006. It's not something that was on my mind. Over time, I started thinking about how my character would react to situations they were facing in the game, stuff that defines characteristics, the way they'd act. Since I started on a normal server, there weren't any roleplaying people to passively show me about RP. Eventually, I looked at the realm list, and noticed realms with the RP tag. After some research, I ended up transferring to one of the popular EU RP realms, and spent years playing/RPing on it. -
11-20-2017, 04:01 AMMistakeNotThere is a difference between exposing people to RP, and exposing people to talk about RP.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
Getting interested in RP after initially hearing people talk about it (or reading discussions about it) is fairly common. Getting interested in RP by listening to/seeing other people RP is far less common - that is something one might do after the interest has been awoken and more information is sought after.
. -
11-20-2017, 04:17 AMDeaconMooreI was not responding to Naunets' post with that actually. I was responding to the person I quoted, uh MistakeNot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
Naunets was actively recruited it seems.
You seem to have a very active imagination. I'm not surprised you sought out others to sate it. If you didn't learn what the rp meant I wonder what you would've done though.
If you want an example of passive recruitment I can point you to my DnD groups campus college years. We didn't advertise for new recruits. We didn't play cooped up in the dorm room. We played out in the open in the campus common areas (moving when asked when we got "too loud"). The size of our group about doubled with 4 recruits (one complete noob that had absolutely no idea what they were getting themselves into, one with a little experience in the past, and the others effectively poached from another group) by just being nice to people that approached of their own volition curious what our rowdy bunch was doing.
Curiosity does more than just kill cats. -
11-20-2017, 05:12 AMTensaiSogetsuYou are right, sometimes it puts you in jail or on the run from the government. Either way, the server isn't going to open. Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
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11-20-2017, 05:21 AMLabrini
I want to say some things. I was playing with my boyfriend and i was getting random dc error in random situations and places and he wasn't 1 meter away, although we use the same network. My pc is ever better than his. But things gone better after the updates.
Have they started to auto-disconnect people that are afk for long time yet though? Someone was logged in afk and never logout for almost 2 days... and in the meantime i had a queue to get into the server. I do not understand this. -
11-20-2017, 07:55 AMRaikki
On the bright side, at least we don't have any RMT bots so our economy doesn't suffer from the rampant inflation of other worlds. Jealous, open world players?
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11-20-2017, 07:56 AMNezeriusThen I have no idea which example you were referring to.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
I'd have kept on playing the game, since RP wasn't the sole reason of playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
So now we have examples of active recruitment, no recruitment, and passive recruitment. I don't think this is getting anywhere, since it's impossible to tell which one is the most common.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconMoore
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11-20-2017, 11:08 AMMaloraYukiLol “jealous WoW nerds” believe it or not some people play both games and enjoy both game.Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondOrion
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11-20-2017, 01:43 PMKazgrelSeeing that in less than half a year I've made more than twice as much gil than I did in 2 years on Balmung, coupled with the amount of RMT being largely negligible (primarily due to using MB near my FC house), no, not jealous one bit. Oh, and we get these neat things called sprouts here, better known as new players...how's that going for Balmung again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikki
See, I can be pointlessly petty as well. Doesn't do much good to be that way if you're trying to win support for a cause. -
11-20-2017, 02:45 PMNihility
balmung should have been closed off a long time before it was even.
maybe could have re-opened it at some point even if it was
As it is now it's almost like dealing with a morbidly obese fat guy in a rock climbing party.
I remember having server status up during stormblood launch and every time seeing balmung crash then a few moments later every other server in that cluster go red one by one.
Not sure exactly how they're all connected but keeping down balmung's bloat seems to be necessary for the health of all the servers it's linked to as well as itself