Free-to-play?

Lol, FFXIV f2p. Nope.

Glad F2P for FFXIV will never ever happen, would cause a huge decline in quality and hugely slow the content release schedule. No free to play game out there can come close to FFXIV (and WoW) in content and design quality.

Not to mention the fact i end up spending far less on P2P games than F2P games, P2P games are actually better for the wallet if you still want a full game experience.

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

Before anyone jumps on me , i would just like to mention :

Right now we have a time unlimited trial ......
With level jump potions and free teleport scrolls already in the game. It does not take that much imagination to see items for sale that would unlock the trial limitations .
(yes , a sub would do that , i know )

So the mechanics are pretty much there already for it going FTP.

I would guess they would go buy to play first though.

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

Before anyone jumps on me , i would just like to mention :

Right now we have a time unlimited trial ......
With level jump potions and free teleport scrolls already in the game. It does not take that much imagination to see items for sale that would unlock the trial limitations .
(yes , a sub would do that , i know )

So the mechanics are pretty much there already for it going FTP.

I would guess they would go buy to play first though.

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Trial is unlimited time but you can only level to 35 on all classes so your stuck in ARR, you got too buy the game too go further. Your also only allowed to use one of each potion per account so you better know what character you want to use it on before hand and be sure about it.

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Originally Posted by Nightroad

Before anyone jumps on me , i would just like to mention :

Right now we have a time unlimited trial ......
With level jump potions and free teleport scrolls already in the game. It does not take that much imagination to see items for sale that would unlock the trial limitations .
(yes , a sub would do that , i know )

So the mechanics are pretty much there already for it going FTP.

I would guess they would go buy to play first though.

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Some of us saw the writing on the wall way back when the Mog Station was being whispered about... and again with free login campaigns... but once the Jump Potions were implemented, it was only a matter of time.

Brand new interview. No plans for F2P:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hida_naoki_pd/

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Q: Is F2P something you have not considered yet?

Y: Absolutely not. It’s a business after all and we look at profits through games. However, we consider the close trust between developers and players than simply trying to maximize the profit in short period of time.

Games like Dragon Quest Builder recently released in Korea and FFXIV are in similar in that sense--It’s all about that “if these guys made this game, it’s a safe bet to pay and likely to enjoy it myself.” It’s much beneficial for us in the long run.

In the developer’s perspective, we think that quick profit is not the right way. Even if FFXIV is making sizable profit surprisingly well, we do not want to push players to reach further in their wallet. Instead, it would be better to encourage at least 2 to 3 times the population with lowered spending per individual, establishing healthy continuation of 3 to 10 years in sight. Hence we have no plan for F2P at all.

In addition, this “Social game” market in Japan is in rough condition . Many games do not last past 2 months and the way I see it is the broken trust between the developers and the players by looking at the profit than anything else. Only thing left out after all the games born and dead were Characters and IPs...

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

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No F2P (sub required) keeps a lot of the bads out.

I do agree that current mog station is unacceptable for a sub mmo but here we are anyway ...

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Brand new interview. No plans for F2P:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hida_naoki_pd/

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It's funny he says all of that, yet we are nickeled and dimed from retainers to expensive glamours. But it's nice that he's not looking at the f2p model, so I guess I have to give credit where it's due.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

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Because if people think there's a drop in quality/quantity right now, it could (and probably would) get so much worse. The only game that I feel does f2p right is Warframe, in that they allow people to buy weapons, warframes and various crafting mats. There's also a bunch of cosmetic items. But pretty much all of them (cosmetics aside) are obtainable through in-game means. Not very difficult either for the most part. Basically, the game is perfectly playable without spending a dime on their premium currency, but money can speed some things up. There's some time gating, but that's nothing new for MMOs in general. Their premium currency is also earnable by playing the game by selling things to other players, so you don't necessarily need to spend any money there either. But all of that said, I simply wouldn't trust SE in the f2p market. They're greedy enough as it is.

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In the developer’s perspective, we think that quick profit is not the right way. Even if FFXIV is making sizable profit surprisingly well, we do not want to push players to reach further in their wallet. Instead, it would be better to encourage at least 2 to 3 times the population with lowered spending per individual, establishing healthy continuation of 3 to 10 years in sight. Hence we have no plan for F2P at all.

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How can he honestly say this? They try to charge f2P prices on top of the sub fee. If they truly believe this then all retainers need to be free, along with the app. I think this is just a PR attempt to distract away from what they are really doing.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

No F2P (sub required) keeps a lot of the bads out.

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DO we play the same game? the more frequent pug experiences I had, along with that long ranting thread, is enough for me to say I disagree and you have no proof. "Bads" as you put it do pay subs, and for this game, a large number of them. It is an illusion, we are playing a F2P model, but its locked behind a sub, they are double dipping.

I would welcome this game be f2p to stop the double dipping since they charge so much in microtransactions as is.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's funny he says all of that, yet we are nickeled and dimed from retainers to expensive glamours. But it's nice that he's not looking at the f2p model, so I guess I have to give credit where it's due.

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EXACTLY! it is very hypocritical. How can he say that with a straight face? such a joke.

Yoshi-P I would love you to explain yourself further on this matter.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Because if people think there's a drop in quality/quantity right now, it could (and probably would) get so much worse. The only game that I feel does f2p right is Warframe, in that they allow people to buy weapons, warframes and various crafting mats. There's also a bunch of cosmetic items. But pretty much all of them (cosmetics aside) are obtainable through in-game means. Not very difficult either for the most part. Basically, the game is perfectly playable without spending a dime on their premium currency, but money can speed some things up. There's some time gating, but that's nothing new for MMOs in general. Their premium currency is also earnable by playing the game by selling things to other players, so you don't necessarily need to spend any money there either.

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All they do is copy and paste content, there is no "worse"

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

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The "F2P" feeling of this game is extremely non-existent in comparison to actual F2P games I've played and worked on in the past. With a sub model, the developers are capable of making the vast majority of content free (within the context of the base sub price that is.) because they're getting a consistent, steady income. With actual F2P the developers have to make up the consistent profits by designing the vast majority of content purely to milk people's wallets. Yoshi-P was extremely accurate on his words about the F2P market: it is an industry that relies on milking money quickly in bursts than providing a constant stream of content/quality/etc. I've even worked on F2P games where everyone on the dev team explicitly knew it was being designed to last maybe a month or two.

There's also the fact the stuff they're nickeling is extremely optional. There are many F2P games that lock off actual options and UI stuff behind paywalls. I think The Old Republic even locks or used to lock hotbars behind cash. I know quite a few friends who've never payed for retainers or purchased mogstation stuff outside of fantasias, and I'd prefer to keep that stuff optional, than suddenly being forced to pay for basic things integral to gameplay.

You think we're being nickel and dimed now? it could easily be 10x worse in a F2P system. That $15 a month would look like the best bargain in comparison to the horrors a true F2P system could potentially bring. That's why I, and I bet quite many others, would prefer to keep our sub label and deal with the minor nickel and diming they throw at us. it's the lesser of twin evils.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

DO we play the same game? the more frequent pug experiences I had, along with that long ranting thread, is enough for me to say I disagree and you have no proof. "Bads" as you put it do pay subs, and for this game, a large number of them. It is an illusion, we are playing a F2P model, but its locked behind a sub, they are double dipping.

I would welcome this game be f2p to stop the double dipping since they charge so much in microtransactions as is.

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My proof is all the F2P games on the market. And take a look at RIFT the day they changed from sub to F2P mentality change instantly and people waving with visa card for best gear from day one.

I'm not necessarily talking about people wiping on a stack marker with bads, I mostly mean the attitude and it's already bad enough as it is.

Also, I have a better solution how about keep the sub but remove the microtransactions?

I wouldn't mind seeing a PLEX, CREDD, WowToken type system for XIV.
Allow people to not have to pay the sub fee, gives Gil more of a purpose and another sink in the way of a sales tax, and combats Gil sellers at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Let's just get rid of that idea. It won't happen and also due to the fact that as someone who has played many F2P games..the communities in those games are generally horrid. It is terrible to see a person PK someone over and over again while screaming racial slurs at them.

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Because this fanbase for XIV is any better? Take a look around here on this very site. If anything I'd say it's WORSE here then most games... even sonic ones.

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Let's just get rid of that idea. It won't happen and also due to the fact that as someone who has played many F2P games..the communities in those games are generally horrid. It is terrible to see a person PK someone over and over again while screaming racial slurs at them.

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Because this fanbase for XIV is any better? Take a look around here on this very site. If anything I'd say it's WORSE here then most games... even sonic ones.

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The above applies to every MMO and MMORPG in existence. in fact, every single community, both real and digital, has their bad eggs. The more competitive the game/scene, the more primal the bad eggs become (eg. real sports, MOBA's etc).

Having said that, if you honestly believe the FFXIV community (in-game or forum-based) is as bad as you claim, then please don't be offended if I assume that you haven't seen too many gaming communities before making that judgement, though it is not right for either myself (nor yourself) to assume their individual experience here is the same for everyone else, so let's settle on the fact we have conflicting experience on the subject.

Games you described above, such as Black Desert - which is a PvP MMORPG, thus such type of behaviour is actually expected - it is natural to view it as toxic when such play is free to become the norm.

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Now, as to the topic of F2P: Considering SE themselves have vehemently gone against the very notion of F2P, it boggles my mind how these rumours even come about. Last I heard, SE would rather shut the game down entirely instead of reform it into an F2P model. I guess you could say every community also generates its naysayers and doom-sayers.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

The above applies to every MMO and MMORPG in existence. in fact, every single community, both real and digital, has their bad eggs. The more competitive the game/scene, the more primal the bad eggs become (eg. real sports, MOBA's etc).

Having said that, if you honestly believe the FFXIV community (in-game or forum-based) is as bad as you claim, then please don't be offended if I assume that you haven't seen too many gaming communities before making that judgement, though it is not right for either myself (nor yourself) to assume their individual experience here is the same for everyone else, so let's settle on the fact we have conflicting experience on the subject.

Games you described above, such as Black Desert - which is a PvP MMORPG, thus such type of behaviour is actually expected - it is natural to view it as toxic when such play is free to become the norm.

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Now, as to the topic of F2P: Considering SE themselves have vehemently gone against the very notion of F2P, it boggles my mind how these rumours even come about. Last I heard, SE would rather shut the game down entirely instead of reform it into an F2P model. I guess you could say every community also generates its naysayers and doom-sayers.

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I go to every forum on every game I jump into. sonic and the general fighting game fanbases are pretty toxic... but this one is up there as well. It might not be as in your face about it. but it's up there. The way people attack each other for a different opinion on different subjects like DPS, or raids is insane. Alot of it is tame compared to COD yhes,, but that doesn't mean it's not bad. This isn't care bear land.. just cause we don't have death threaths here doesn't mean it isn't toxic here either.

The word 'toxic' is thrown around far too frequently and far too easily these days.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

The "F2P" feeling of this game is extremely non-existent in comparison to actual F2P games I've played and worked on in the past. With a sub model, the developers are capable of making the vast majority of content free because they're getting a consistent, steady income. With actual F2P the developers have to make up the consistent profits by designing the vast majority of content purely to milk people's wallets. Yoshi-P was extremely accurate on his words about the F2P market: it is an industry that relies on milking money quickly in bursts than providing a constant stream of content/quality/etc. I've even worked on F2P games where everyone on the dev team explicitly knew it was being designed to last maybe a month or two.

There's also the fact the stuff they're nickeling is extremely optional. There are many F2P games that lock off actual options and UI stuff behind paywalls. I think The Old Republic even locks or used to lock hotbars behind cash. I know quite a few friends who've never payed for retainers or purchased mogstation stuff outside of fantasias, and I'd prefer to keep that stuff optional, than suddenly being forced to pay for basic things integral to gameplay.
You think we're being nickel and dimed now? it could easily be 10x worse in a F2P system. That $15 a month would look like the best bargain in comparison to the horrors a true F2P system could potentially bring. That's why I, and I bet quite many others, would prefer to keep our sub label and deal with the minor nickel and diming they throw at us. it's the lesser of twin evils.

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It is a sub model, they should be fixing inventory problems, not trying to make people buy retainers. I do not like the double dipping and the retainers feel far from "optional" It is double dipping, and people fall for it, I am shocked. "It can be worse" does not excuse them double dipping as is. "lesser of the twin evils" is why they are getting away with it, "oh it can be worse" sorry, that does not sit well with me. This game is a F2P locked behind a sub, "it being worse in other games" will not change that view.

They do not need charge for retainers, they do not even put much money back into the game, that is why all the content is copy/paste. They just want to keep milking the player base while pretending like they are not doing so. They just lost 47.97 dollars a month (she added it just now because at times she paid for 7 retainers and ffxi account w/ legacy 6 month price.) because of this mess of a situation from my friend pulling FFXI and FFXIV subs.

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Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Also, I have a better solution how about keep the sub but remove the microtransactions?

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I agree, my point though is i want to see one or the other, stop having overpriced mircotransactions behind a sub. Remove the sub, or remove/change the prices on the microtransactions. My friend that I wrote that quit post for is really mad over reading that quote. Ill leave out the more headed comments and just say, all that shows is Yoshi-p is out of touch of the current state of the game, because the prices of things does not fit what he said.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

"It can be worse" does not excuse them double dipping as is.

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This is not an excuse, it's a reason why people don't want the game becoming full "Free 2 Play". Worse case scenario, in a F2P FFXIV, you'd have to pay to have access to the Armory System, locking you into a single job.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Can I ask why people are so against having a "f2P" label, when right now, we have "f2p" model gated behind a sub?

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Having the mogstation doesn't make the game the game model a f2p model. Incredible how people always claim that as soon as there is a shop in a p2p game.

Get over yourself and stop thinking you OWN the game just because you pay a sub....

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Brand new interview. No plans for F2P:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hida_naoki_pd/

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Why is it every quote i read form yoshi P i read lately makes me laugh so much....

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, we do not want to push players to reach further in their wallet.

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LMAO.....

i want some of whatever he's smoking

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Why is it every quote i read form yoshi P i read lately makes me laugh so much....

LMAO.....

i want some of whatever he's smoking

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It's an answer that makes sense.

Consider the context of the question - whether or not they've considered F2P for FFXIV.

Now (and this is important) consider the transaction model and content delivery approach of the typical F2P game that Yoshi P is likely talking about (so not the more user friendly approach of something like Path of Exile). Imagine being required to spend real money to buy storage to get above 40 slots, or to just unlock your first two retainers, or to gain access to faster mount speeds, or to get an item that increases the likelihood that your overmelds will succeed, etc.

While we have a cash shop and character level boosts for catching up and a bunch of cosmetics and some mounts, etc...the game itself is not designed around the cash shop, and that's the key difference.

So when Yoshi P is talking about not wanting to push players to reach further in their wallet, he's likely talking about that to go F2P would mean changing the design of the game itself to be designed around the cash shop, and that is something they (and we) don't want.

Y-P just did an interview in korea.
And the 3-10 year plan for the game has NO F2P so quit asking about it.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hida_naoki_pd/

Q: Is F2P something you have not considered yet?

Y: Absolutely not. It’s a business after all and we look at profits through games. However, we consider the close trust between developers and players than simply trying to maximize the profit in short period of time.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

It's an answer that makes sense.

Consider the context of the question - whether or not they've considered F2P for FFXIV.

Now (and this is important) consider the transaction model and content delivery approach of the typical F2P game that Yoshi P is likely talking about (so not the more user friendly approach of something like Path of Exile). Imagine being required to spend real money to buy storage to get above 40 slots, or to just unlock your first two retainers, or to gain access to faster mount speeds, or to get an item that increases the likelihood that your overmelds will succeed, etc.

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I do not care about other games, I care about this game, and the microtransaction prices ARE FREE TO PLAY prices. Retainers are WORSE then free to play games because no F2P game rents space. I consider FFXIV's current model to be the worse because it is trying to double dip, get rid of the free to play prices or drop the sub fee, no reason for the overcharge on glams for ONE CHARACTER, and retainer monthly fee. That is free to play pricing. I do not care if there are worse aspects in some games that are free to play, this game under free to play does not have to be like that. The reason wow does not have FFXIV's issue is because 1. they got a true, functional, glam log that IS ACCOUNT WIDE, 2, mounts, minions, etc, is about the same price as ffxiv, except they are ALL ACCOUNT WIDE! 3. WoW does not have monthly fees on inventory space.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

Y-P just did an interview in korea.
And the 3-10 year plan for the game has NO F2P so quit asking about it.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...hida_naoki_pd/

Q: Is F2P something you have not considered yet?

Y: Absolutely not. It’s a business after all and we look at profits through games. However, we consider the close trust between developers and players than simply trying to maximize the profit in short period of time.

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What trust? I do not trust someone trying to nickle and dime a playerbase of free to play prices gated behind a sub. It is just a PR stunt so gullible people do not see what they are truly doing.