So an FC on midgardsormer bought 60 plots...

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Originally Posted by PrincessMarbleSays

If it’s an FC house it essentially IS theirs as well as the rest of the communities within the FC. They can even be given privileges to edit and construct it. So what point would there be?

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While that maybe true. It's be pretty difficult for everyone to do.. You can't really male a fc house your own. Because every member is going to have different tastes in design. One guy might want a morbol themed corner of the house where another guy thinks there should be a sauna and someone else maybe a kitchen.

You end up with a classic "too many cooks spoil the broth" situation.

And that is why people in free companies still want there own houses. I wanted a medium mainly because of the second garden plot. But someone beat me to it. So spur of the moment I bought a nearby large plot. Honestly too big for me. But a small just isn't big enough with only 1 garden patch. And not much space inside.

I'd question how they all managed to all log in to get the housing more than concerned about who bought them... if they did it legit, did it to own a house (not flippers) and not with Alta then i have no problem at all with it... hell id probably do the same given the opportunity...

Heh. And people scoff at my idea of a lottery system. Choice A the same people get plot after plot year end year out or B everyone has same chance. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Heh. And people scoff at my idea of a lottery system. Choice A the same people get plot after plot year end year out or B everyone has same chance. *shrug*

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Just because your suggestion would hinder mass organisation to get several plots doesn't mean it would make things better than they are now.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Just because your suggestion would hinder mass organisation to get several plots doesn't mean it would make things better than they are now.

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That is based on perception and nothing more. You honestly only have 2 options within 2 options. Either everyone gets housing via instance or multi cloned plots as a server grows in total pop or you have limited housing and the same 1% gets 90% of the plots from being better prepared then other plot grabbers or let SE select plot owners via in-game algorithm lottery.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

That is based on perception and nothing more. You honestly only have 2 options within 2 options. Either everyone gets housing via instance or multi cloned plots as a server grows in total pop or you have limited housing and the same 1% gets 90% of the plots from being better prepared then other plot grabbers or let SE select plot owners via in-game algorithm lottery.

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This whole lottery idea just needs to stop. It doesn't solve anything, just shifts who gets nothing elsewhere. There would STILL be a shortage. What they need is more plots/wards, preferably ones that spawn almost indefinitely...or as you said, maybe base it on server populations.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

This whole lottery idea just needs to stop. It doesn't solve anything, just shifts who gets nothing elsewhere. There would STILL be a shortage. What they need is more plots/wards, preferably ones that spawn almost indefinitely...or as you said, maybe base it on server populations.

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Actually it does solve the problem within the system we are currently using which is limited housing. It is the MOST fair and widespread way for everyone to get a chance. The devs have stated new wards in a upcoming patch. Same people will get houses who got houses this patch and patches ago when wards last expanded. It will be never ending because the same people will continue getting housing to flip. The day after Shiro wards went public 30 houses were for sale in blackmarket boards and that is just from a quick glance. Solve the problem with the same people getting houses year after year if we are going to continue to use this broken ward system....

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Actually it does solve the problem within the system we are currently using which is limited housing. It is the MOST fair and widespread way for everyone to get a chance. The devs have stated new wards in a upcoming patch. Same people will get houses who got houses this patch and patches ago when wards last expanded. It will be never ending because the same people will continue getting housing to flip. The day after Shiro wards went public 30 houses were for sale in blackmarket boards and that is just from a quick glance. Solve the problem with the same people getting houses year after year if we are going to continue to use this broken ward system....

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That doesn't solve the problem at all, it just shifts it elsewhere. Period. Instead of people having the chance (however small) to log in and go to their desired plot, they would have an even smaller chance and be completely at the mercy of RNG.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

That doesn't solve the problem at all, it just shifts it elsewhere. Period. Instead of people having the chance (however small) to log in and go to their desired plot, with this they would have an even smaller chance and be completely at the mercy of RNG.

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Yes it shifts the current paradigm which is same people already get houses. Same people will get new houses and same people will continue getting housing. You just keep putting out the same statements without any evidence that argues your point. Do you rather the same people get the houses or everyone else regardless of how small the chance ITLEAST having a chance?

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Yes it shifts the current paradigm which is same people already get houses. Same people will get new houses and same people will continue getting housing. You just keep putting out the same statements without any evidence that argues your point. Do you rather the same people get the houses or everyone else regardless of how small the chance ITLEAST having a chance?

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They could also fix the problem of the "same people getting houses" instead of adding RNG into the mix. That would be even better instead of just kicking the can elsewhere. I understand full well how this would play out. You apparently do not.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

They could also fix the problem of the "same people getting houses" instead of adding RNG into the mix, but you know, that'd be logical.

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I am glad you can finally agree with me on the issue but one point you have yet to acknowledge is the only way to deal with the same people is only through range. The entire system needs to change but it will not change. Limited resources the same people will get the resources or you use range. There is no other way unless SE itself wants to be the one who decides who gets what on a per basis approach. How can you not logically use range on a limited resource system?

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

I am glad you can finally agree with me on the issue but one point you have yet to acknowledge is the only way to deal with the same people is only through range. The entire system needs to change but it will not change. Limited resources the same people will get the resources or you use range. There is no other way unless SE itself wants to be the one who decides who gets what on a per basis approach. How can you not logically use range on a limited resource system?

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We aren't really agreeing on anything. You say that your approach changes it, but it really doesn't. But now you seem to agree, but are promoting a system that doesn't change much of anything. I'm confused. What needs to happen is that we either get A. Instanced housing, or B. A ward system that expands on its own. A lottery would just add another layer of RNG to the mix. The current "RNG" is how fast you get in and out of queue. More would be bad, really bad.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

That is based on perception and nothing more.

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...I can't fathom why you think handing out plots to random people is better. At least right now players can take measures to increase their chances. They can camp the aetherytes, they can move to a lower populated server, they can collaborate with other players to have multiple people watching out for a plot, they can even engage in house flipping (it's a crappy option but it's still a valid option in the eyes of many). Lottery is entirely based on luck. I got my plot because I waited patiently to catch one that just finished the demolition timer. If we had lottery instead I probably wouldn't have my house and someone else who wouldn't have bothered to try to camp aetherytes might have it instead. With lottery no one can take any measures to increase their chances.

The current system sucks. But my goodness your version would be horrendous. Not only does it just simply change who has the plots, it would drive people to quit because they would see that system as completely hopeless. The horrid state of housing on the likes of Balmung is better than lottery.

There is only ONE solution to make everyone happy... large flowerpots that allows for crossbreeding and public workshops/airship docks... housing isn't a real problem except they locked this content behind it...

That would be the case if the measures were legal. There are means to jump the queue and be at the beginning to log on via third-party methods. My solution is the easiest way for SE to implement a system that is the fair. If the 80% of people who never had a house has planned to quit they would have by now. The housing system, for the most part, is not affecting the subs for FF 14 but right now the system is already hopeless. People who flip houses are making a mint with a profit of 10x or more from what they invested (not counting time). And I suspect a number of black market houses are professionally gobbled up by real-life rmt companies that invest in software/exploits/teleport hacks in order to grab the majority of the plots.

And the lottery is just a means to an end. My original concept I posted a year or two back did involve having people who own houses pay taxes like the Market Board deals with and a more aggressive plot reclamation system in place. There is no telling how many houses that could be freed up for people that play the game regularly.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Same access is not an accurate statement. It's not like housing was open for weeks and plots sat there. I woke up at 1:45 am (release was 2:00 am) just to download the patch but encountered Launcher errors,

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See I think that was your first problem. You should patch WELL in advance (the first moment you can even start patching). 15 minutes is too last minute, and it doesn't give you time in case issues happen. 15 minutes before servers coming up is when a LOT of people are gonna be camping the launcher, so issues will happen. I patched in advance, and I only had a couple hiccups just trying to log in.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

That would be the case if the measures were legal.

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Are you trying to tell me camping the aetheryte, teaming up with other players to find a plot and changing server are not legal measures? Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Are you trying to tell me camping the aetheryte, teaming up with other players to find a plot and changing server are not legal measures? Seriously?

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In order to understand the first sentence, you must take in the paragraph as a whole. That is why quoting people with just a small fragment of the entire post can be taken out of context.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

In order to understand the first sentence, you must take in the paragraph as a whole. That is why quoting people with just a small fragment of the entire post can be taken out of context.

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You said that would be the case if the measures were legal. All but one I listed are. So either you are very unfamiliar as to what housing activities are against the terms of use, or you're doing the cherry picking you just accused me of doing.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Waiting for this. Otherwise this is highly unlikely. We had 5 people from the same FC trying to login at the same time. 1 of us got in. Let alone what it would take for all 60 to be able to run to houses and purchase them without issue.

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So this thread is highly exaggerated. I took the time to check. There is no ward that's owned by 1 FC, not even one subdivision completely owned by one FC.

The OP is probably upset that he couldn't get a house because the volume of people who tried logging in. I got a ward 1 subdivision small plot, and I was #750 in queue which took close to 3 minutes to get in (plus massive lag in that ward.) Even after I grabbed it, there were several open plots around mine for a little while.

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Originally Posted by LadyKairi

You should patch WELL in advance...

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Many people did, even planned out routes and everything. Not only did login clients crash unexpectedly, pushing players out of the queue, there were other technical issues such as unable to transfer house, loading screen lag, as well as claims of "bots" seemingly teleport to plots and buying them up.

People who have won in this savage 4.1 war can discourage "salty" losers all they want while disregarding the various underlying issues of the existing housing system.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Are you trying to tell me camping the aetheryte, teaming up with other players to find a plot and changing server are not legal measures? Seriously?

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Not sure where the previous discussion was about, but "illegal" measures may pertain to the current craze of plot buying and reselling, as well as shell alts and FCs buying up the plots (either for personal trophy decoration or flipping).

Technically, owning multiple plots isn't again T&Cs at all. Neither are players scavenging through PF, housing subreddit and whatever means to secure housing at outrageous prices (plot trading outside the game is ok apparently), while lining the pockets of flippers and RMT traders.

Yet it doesn't mean that it is okay. Not only it is morally wrong, but turns the my stomach to simply watch and be part of majority of the player base to simply miss out due to whatever reasons despite efficient preparation and eager anticipation to be part of a well promoted aspect of 4.1 patch.

I personally consider those who successfully attained a plot (especially on high population servers) are privileged, and extremely, extremely, lucky - such is the original intention of the current housing system unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Amomomo

Not sure where the previous discussion was about, but "illegal" measures may pertain to the current craze of plot buying and reselling, as well as shell alts and FCs buying up the plots (either for personal trophy decoration or flipping).

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Another player thinks lottery is the fairest way to divvy out plots. I said that would seem like a hopeless situation for so many players because it's 100% rng. Though odds suck right now players can take various measures to increase their chances such as camping aetherytes, teaming up with other players to find a plot, changing server and house flipping. That player responded with "That would be the case if the measures were legal" seeming to either be woefully uneducated about what counts as against the terms of use or conveniently ignoring legal (and perfectly fair) measures that prove his lottery system would be worse than what we have now.

Lottery just gives everyone an equally s****y chance of getting a plot, and well what happens when they're all taken? You get put into a queue?

No thanks. We need a real fix, not new ways to test the patience of players.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

No thanks. We need a real fix, not new ways to test the patience of players.

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I agree with you that we really do need a real fix, instead of simply wait on a few newly added wards. I dislike the idea of lottery too - imagine having valuable contents such as housing and FC airship lock behind weekly Gold Saucer Cactpot - disastrous.

There are good and some not so feasible ideas proposed by players throughout this official housing forums, the FFXIV subreddits, and other online forums. I hope that SE will make the right decision in coming up with a feasible long term fix for the housing issue.

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Originally Posted by Amomomo

There are good and some not so feasible ideas proposed by players throughout this official housing forums, the FFXIV subreddits, and other online forums. I hope that SE will make the right decision in coming up with a feasible long term fix for the housing issue.

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One of the better ones going around right now is to limit housing ownership to one personal and one fc (per server or per account) and grant all characters on the same server as the personal house to have access to it. That still isn't a fix but it would really go a long way to freeing up plots owned by a single account's multiple characters and shell fcs in a single server. Which I'm lead to believe is a real issue on some servers.

Some players think it should be limited to only one house regardless of whether it's personal or not. I disagree with this because typically a few senior fc members have control over a fc house. The fc master would be stuck with only the fc house while the other senior members would have both the fc house and a personal house to use. Not only is the fc master being unfairly punished, I can see this causing unrest in some fcs making fc masters want to step down or want to be the only one to have full decorative control over the fc house.

Housing has been ruined since single ownership was allowed. There's only 2880 plots on every server after all. But so many people want solo houses... Instanced housing really needs to be added.

They should have both the current housing system as is, with the potential of adding new wards, AND instanced housing alongside it. That way, if you aren't able to get an actual housing, you can have an instanced one.

Similar to the way they have apartments, perhaps they could have somewhat of a "condo" system. So you'd walk up to a sort of gate, speak to an NPC, and you'd get transported to an instance with your house and stuff in it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Another player thinks lottery is the fairest way to divvy out plots. I said that would seem like a hopeless situation for so many players because it's 100% rng. Though odds suck right now players can take various measures to increase their chances such as camping aetherytes, teaming up with other players to find a plot, changing server and house flipping. That player responded with "That would be the case if the measures were legal" seeming to either be woefully uneducated about what counts as against the terms of use or conveniently ignoring legal (and perfectly fair) measures that prove his lottery system would be worse than what we have now.

Lottery just gives everyone an equally s****y chance of getting a plot, and well what happens when they're all taken? You get put into a queue?

No thanks. We need a real fix, not new ways to test the patience of players.

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I do not understand why you think to be able to use hacks is legal. If a person is able to somehow brute their way into the game, teleport around to buy up plots then yes they need to be banned. This is illegal and was a main method used to buy up lots of plots to sell illegally on websites that deal with virtual property. Just a quick google will show all the wonderful housing for sale that you deem is legal.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

You said that would be the case if the measures were legal. All but one I listed are. So either you are very unfamiliar as to what housing activities are against the terms of use, or you're doing the cherry picking you just accused me of doing.

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No. I said that would be the case if measures were legal. There is the third party means to log in almost immediately via a hack that may or may not has been patched. That is what I said. The details of the hack are being passed around now as semi-public knowledge on certain websites where alot of this illegal crap is happening. If SE wants to deal with the cheaters then you would see this current ward system a bit more viable but as of right now it is a system ripe to be exploited. And I have not even discussed all the teleport hacking that was going on. I saw it first hand people will scout out what they want to buy and the instant the servers come up the moment they log on they will teleport to these spots within the second they enter the ward and buy them up. You do not necessarily have to be after a house and if you are online during the rush you could see it just standing at a ward entrance seeing people vanish the moment they enter the ward.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

I do not understand why you think to be able to use hacks is legal.

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I didn't mention a single hack aside from house flipping (which technically isn't a hack) which I know is against the terms of use. Really, are you just unable to read?

These threads need less salt and more cowbell

If 60 individuals want a house and they just happen to be part of the same FC, what's the issue?
Some may have bought more than one house but if they have the gil, what's the issue?

I'm really failing to see the problem.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

Same people will get houses who got houses this patch and patches ago when wards last expanded.

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Can you please tell me how these people magically bypass lobby errors, server queues, and other such things?

I assure you these issues plague these 'constant buyers' just as much as everyone else. A lottery system isn't going to fix anything but have each plot give more competition (Imagine if the lottery was open for a day and 400+ people raffled for the same plot). At the end of the day there will be only 1 winner and 399 sad people.

Seriously take this stupid lottery idea and jam it where the sun doesn't shine... I had to work to earn my 3 properties... just because you didn't get one and perhaps someone cheated doesn't mean screwing over legit players doesn't make the system fair

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I didn't mention a single hack aside from house flipping (which technically isn't a hack) which I know is against the terms of use. Really, are you just unable to read?

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No but I am able to quote people properly without leaving vital parts out. And if you do not like the lottery idea that is fine. There are other ideas floating that I would support as much as a lottery system. It is just one of many ideas people float.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Seriously take this stupid lottery idea and jam it where the sun doesn't shine... I had to work to earn my 3 properties... just because you didn't get one and perhaps someone cheated doesn't mean screwing over legit players doesn't make the system fair

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Ok I will take this lottery idea and stop running with it. Anything still is better then what we have and how is 80% of a server getting screwed over not a even more unfair system?

My proposal is add more wards (like they are doing), limit housing to one personal and one fc house per account, add a public workshop/airship dock yard, add new crossbreeding flowerpots, add the tenant option to apartments, and create a balcony feature to apartments to allow some outdoor furnishing use... another more controversial idea would be to disable land relinquishing and reenable demolition... that would discourage house flippers...

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

No but I am able to quote people properly without leaving vital parts out.

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...you accused me of being okay with hacks when I said no such thing. I didn't even mention hacks until you did. You're not going to have any luck selling your ideas if you intentionally misread posts.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

...you accused me of being okay with hacks when I said no such thing. I didn't even mention hacks until you did. You're not going to have any luck selling your ideas if you intentionally misread posts.

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The same way you try to get by selling your ideas by intentionally trying to twist my words through omission.

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Originally Posted by Vladmiere

The same way you try to get by selling your ideas by intentionally trying to twist my words through omission.

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I'm sorry I offended you by showing you how ludicrously awful your lotto idea is.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

If 60 individuals want a house and they just happen to be part of the same FC, what's the issue?
Some may have bought more than one house but if they have the gil, what's the issue?

I'm really failing to see the problem.

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Mirroring this here, yep..

If they are reselling them then that is a problem. If they are not and are all individuals who are using them, they did nothing wrong and you should be more upset with SE for rushing to implement a system that was not complete nor well thought out.

If I had a huge and tight FC that was very community based, owning an entire ward would be amazing as you could do ward-wide FC events. At least in this way wards would actually be used for what SE intended them for. As it stands we should really just have instanced housing as people do not interact unless it is to troll or annoy their neighbors.