The Healer Problem in PVP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daiwii

Anybody who says that definitely never hit Platinum. As main Heal it is true that I easily carried myself into Platinum. But ever since I hit Platinum the matches against other healers were so even that u could tell who will win from the start by looking at the names of the dps. I know at least 2 monk mains who destroy everything they touch. Having them in your team is an easy win and healing on against them feels impossible. So there is obviously a way to carry as Dps otherwise those players wouldnt be in the top 100 with 66% win.

---

Anybody who is from eu/na wannabe forget there is something called teamwork, claiming that 100% of a match depends exclusively from healer is dumb.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirch

Anybody who is from eu/na wannabe forget there is something called teamwork, claiming that 100% of a match depends exclusively from healer is dumb.

---

Yeah I admit it, 100% is a huge exaggeration. But there is no denying that matches depend on them quite a lot and it wasn't like this in previous seasons.
And btw I did make it to top 100 this season, the highest I got was 30 before I gave up. And you know there is a problem when there are only 2 or 3 healers playing and the queue times are huge. Nobody wants to heal because of how hard it it and how much matches depend on them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takatsuki

As I said plenty of times, the whole system is flawed, people are barking at the wrong tree.
Healer balance is where it should be, a good healer can carry games and bad healers get punished for being bad.

---

I think you got it right there. A good healer should "carry" games meaning it should make it easier for the team to win if not outright securing the win. But having a bad healer shouldn't mean the entire team gets punished, that's the problem right now. No matter how good the rest of the team is a bad healer will always make them lose, not like other games where chances are slim but still there (which creates hype as shit moments of clutch wins like past seasons). Saying that good healer gets rewarded bad healer gets punished means you are not thinking about the core of this pvp mode, TEAM.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Takatsuki

As I said plenty of times, the whole system is flawed, people are barking at the wrong tree.
Healer balance is where it should be, a good healer can carry games and bad healers get punished for being bad.

---

Why am I punished for having a bad healer while my other teammates could be good? Why are 3 people punished for one single person playing arguably the most important role being bad? I've carried 2v2 matches in WoW when my healer died because I knew how to play my class against the opponents. I know how to play against classes in this game, but I just can't hurt them because healing+shields are so stupidly dumb without Crits or autoattacks. Why does it feel like my role doesn't matter AT ALL because my healer isn't performing?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

Why am I punished for having a bad healer while my other teammates could be good?

---

Because you got bad luck in your PUG. Requeue.

To start being matched with good people you need climb your rank to Gold and then people will be less clueless on average. Sure, it isn't easy but nobody expect it otherwise. I decided to punish myself and go for healer and it is hard but will continue improve myself at it, until I get decent and can switch rank.

Nobody born pro and you learn NOTHING from guides if you don't go in arena yourself and (try to) apply what you have read. So expect noobs in the unranked. A lot of them. Including my healer.

I think a lot of players who think that Healers are some sort of solo carries should just play a few matches as Healer. You will soon realise how wrong you are when people keep running out of your line of sight with like 20% hp or picking up too many coins. Or even doing only 80k dps... making it impossible to win. Also it would help you improve by knowing the fight from the healer point of view...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by -IronWolf-

Yeah I admit it, 100% is a huge exaggeration. But there is no denying that matches depend on them quite a lot and it wasn't like this in previous seasons.
And btw I did make it to top 100 this season, the highest I got was 30 before I gave up. And you know there is a problem when there are only 2 or 3 healers playing and the queue times are huge. Nobody wants to heal because of how hard it it and how much matches depend on them.

---

Now too in top 100 the highest win rates are likely healers or drk players, for chaos for example top 10 is 7 healers and 3 tanks i think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

Why am I punished for having a bad healer while my other teammates could be good? Why are 3 people punished for one single person playing arguably the most important role being bad? I've carried 2v2 matches in WoW when my healer died because I knew how to play my class against the opponents. I know how to play against classes in this game, but I just can't hurt them because healing+shields are so stupidly dumb without Crits or autoattacks. Why does it feel like my role doesn't matter AT ALL because my healer isn't performing?

---

With the pvp overhaul they removed most if not all the tools that could give each job a certain way to carry in solo are gone: war strong and quick burst and self sustain, mch CCs and insta burst, pld incredible stunlock, monk and bard strong burst and the silenece spam of monk...etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirch

Now too in top 100 the highest win rates are likely healers or drk players, for chaos for example top 10 is 7 healers and 3 tanks i think.

---

Last time I checked the Primal leaderboards it was almost entirely all Whm/Sch/Drk. The occasional DPS thrown in there, but I doubt that person climbed to top 100 as a DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

Last time I checked the Primal leaderboards it was almost entirely all Whm/Sch/Drk. The occasional DPS thrown in there, but I doubt that person climbed to top 100 as a DPS.

---

Another reason to separate the leaderboards to the role you used to climb the ladder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

Another reason to separate the leaderboards to the role you used to climb the ladder.

---

True. At this point I'd just like to have a queue time that's less than ~40ish minutes to get a subpar healer that rages and spams Ignore Target on me when I die. Most fun I've ever had. Super long queue time, loss in ~6 minutes. Feels good.

On one aspect ppl want good healers on their team
On another aspect ppl don't want to heal because healing sucks especially in diamond games

Now ppl complaining about healers' win rate
I don't understand

1-Healer don't have the carry power in diamond games
2-Healer is way more stressful than dps and tank
3-Healers have the lowest fault tolerance rate
4-With lowest fault tolerance rate, healers have to make up for mistakes from other players
5-Ppl blaming healers even under some situation that impossible to save(e.g. Melee chasing around tree/wall about/over one minute, culling 3 no kills, culling 2 cc)

Healers with high wr, THEY DESERVE IT
Ppl should play healer first before any complaining about well played healers

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arthur_Gwen

On one aspect ppl want good healers on their team
On another aspect ppl don't want to heal because healing sucks especially in diamond games

Now ppl complaining about healers' win rate
I don't understand

1-Healer don't have the carry power in diamond games
2-Healer is way more stressful than dps and tank
3-Healers have the lowest fault tolerance rate
4-With lowest fault tolerance rate, healers have to make up for mistakes from other players
5-Ppl blaming healers even under some situation that impossible to save(e.g. Melee chasing around tree/wall about/over one minute, culling 3 no kills, culling 2 cc)

Healers with high wr, THEY DESERVE IT
Ppl should play healer first before any complaining about well played healers

---

1- Yes, they do.
2- True.
3- True.
4- Other player mistakes typically lead to deaths. Overextentions/Line of Sight issues.
5- In that situation, it's all based on which healer is better/has mana.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

-

---

1-They don't. Reason: see point 5
4-I mean the management on cds/mp, problems like LOS or overstack is too retarded to count as "fault" if we're talking about diamond games

5-See this what I mean by ppl blaming healer under unhealble situations
In culling time(2stacks or more), its impossible to keep everyone at full hp all the time(or 80% hp with shield)which means, it's possible for opposite to get a 90-0 or 80-0 kill. Or 100-0 within one gcd/stun/stun+silence+draw back
Under these situations, it's all based on dps rather than healer

It's ridiculous to see ppl blaming healers under culling 3 for "not good enough" or "opposite got a better one"
Dps who think in this way should be forced to play healer until they hit diamond (smile)

Btw

Imagine when you and opposite healer both(and two tanks) ran out of mp and cds, trying to heal up culling 4
Then after the game, your melee told you he never noticed the culling stack
And said opposite healer was doing so great, too hard to make a kill

Although I won that game I still wanted to punch him in the face

Imagine after that win you decided to take a break
Then saw a thread a group of blind dps complaining about healers' win rate

#the real diamond healer life
(And about those 70% wr healer, again they deserve it)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arthur_Gwen

5-See this what I mean by ppl blaming healer under unhealble situations
In culling time(2stacks or more), its impossible to keep everyone at full hp all the time(or 80% hp with shield)which means, it's possible for opposite to get a 90-0 or 80-0 kill. Or 100-0 within one gcd/stun/stun+silence+draw back
Under these situations, it's all based on dps rather than healer
Dps who think in this way should be forced to play healer until they hit diamond (smile)

---

I've been to Culling 4 with a healer, and we barely managed to kill their DPS because both healers were doing very well. It does get to a point of unhealable damage, yes, but it's not impossible for a good healer to keep both priority targets alive for quite some time. So yes, I will put all the pressure on the healers since my burst means nothing if their DPS survives at 10% and then gets a full heal.

I don't like Culling, I don't like medal stacks, I don't like the Feast mechanics in general. They are too punishing for a team that is outperforming the other. If the teams are evenly matched, guess who the deciding member of the team is? The healer. Culling or not, healers carry teams that are evenly matched.

I also don't blame healers if we die during a high culling because I know the damage is almost impossible to heal. The match still weighs entirely on the healer to keep me alive if I'm melee dps, and let me do my job to kill the priority target.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arthur_Gwen

4-I mean the management on cds/mp, problems like LOS or overstack is too retarded to count as "fault" if we're talking about diamond games

---

So when we have pressure on a target and the healer is struggling but the target runs behind a wall, do you want the entire team to just let them go so their healer can sit there and heal them to full, or continue the pressure?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

So when we have pressure on a target and the healer is struggling but the target runs behind a wall, do you want the entire team to just let them go so their healer can sit there and heal them to full, or continue the pressure?

---

Of course I should run behind my team to support them get a kill, as long as I'm not getting stunned/draw back

Running behind wall is not the point, the point is
-Half team behind wall half team with me
-Chasing around the wall
-LOS me because none of them saw I got cced far away
-Ran behind wall and out of my range in few seconds by drk whm cc/their own rushing skills

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krolja

I've been to Culling 4 with a healer, and we barely managed to kill their DPS because both healers were doing very well. It does get to a point of unhealable damage, yes, but it's not impossible for a good healer to keep both priority targets alive for quite some time.

---

Because all dps in both team suck

Healer definitely low on mp and cds during culling 4 (and culling 4 can only be reached with 2 well played tanks) unless alt healer in silver/gold games(In plat+ games you shouldn't even reach culling 3 and you talking about culling 4)

If dps feel it's hard to make a kill with 40% dmg up
Rip quit feast
(Culling 3 bring you the power of 100-0 ppl within one gcd, culling 4 you should be able to solo ppl 100-0 unless you don't know how to burst/how to watch buffs/how to coordinate with tank cc, like LB someone with tbn, adlo, safeguard up, failed then came tell me it was hard to get a kill)

You can say that healers playing really well if you want an excuse

If only I could hit my 2 dps buttons better. Maybe my Yukikaze application will one shot the target. That's the dream. Teach me, senpai. Setsugekka, can MAYBE one shot a target without shields at Culling 3, but a single GCD? Nah. It's also really hard to coordinate anything with anyone in the Feast right now, just an endless spam noise of "Attacking (insert whomever you're attacking or whatever here)". Maybe if tanks had a "Stunning Healer now!" or "Silencing Healer now!".

Im talking about burst one shot ppl in culling, you talking about using Setsugekka and hopefully can one shot someone

Ask ppl who plays sam for burst tips plz, I don't think you know what is burst/full burst or hard swap
(Again in culling 4, you don't need any extra dmg for kills if you trying to say your ranged wasn't on same target with you. If your tank doesn't do callings, set the healer as focus so you can see the debuffs and dr. Or you can try using count down macros to notify your ranged and tank)

I don't understand what you trying to tell me
That was not dps' fault to not get any kills during culling 4?
That was not your fault to expect 100-0 ppl by using one single burst skill?
That was not dps' fault to wait for cc on healer because they couldn't make a kill with 40% dmg up in 20 sec?(I'm not even talking about opposite healer's mp and cds)

I really don't think you know what you're talking about

And I'm not going to reply a melee who does nothing in culling 4 but trying to find himself a good excuse anymore

(^_^)b Nice job!