It is time to get a 3rd free Retainer

Yes, after reading the notes from the recent live letter, it is clear we need an extra retainer.

They said expanding the inventory "has created more stress load on the servers than we assumed, so we would need to rethink our method before expanding any further."

If this is the case, then we need another retainer.

(Also a style log/glamour log would alleviate things.)

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Originally Posted by kimoi

Yes, after reading the notes from the recent live letter, it is clear we need an extra retainer.

They said expanding the inventory "has created more stress load on the servers than we assumed, so we would need to rethink our method before expanding any further."

If this is the case, then we need another retainer.

(Also a style log/glamour log would alleviate things.)

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No, that means they need to do what they said, make a new method of storing items. It is no choice now after saying that. This means getting rid of item management from retainers completely, have players put stuff on the MB themselves, and give us an item bank. That is how you alleviate server stress.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

No, that means they need to do what they said, make a new method of storing items. It is no choice now after saying that. This means getting rid of item management from retainers completely, have players put stuff on the MB themselves, and give us an item bank. That is how you alleviate server stress.

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The retainers are just a UI so don't really need to go anywhere. The problem is the underlying implementation that passes all of this information around in structures as opposed to database keys that could be referenced only when needed for processing. I also suspect from the various SE statements I've read that all of it is processed on the server side when to be honest some would be better off if it was passed to the client to handle. None of this is insurmountable to resolve just boils down to SE deciding it is in their best interest to do so.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

This would be great! For whatever reason, it never dawned on me to just simplify the bait/lure options in that manner. The only potentially iffy part would be the scrip bait, but perhaps they could work that in as well.

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I'd imagine they could either limit "inventory bait" to just those baits that are purchased with scrips. The "not premium" bait could be repurposed to act similar to spear heads.

The other option, as I suggested before, would be require the purchase of a key item using scrips, to unlock a more premium bait/lure (similar to mounts, minions, books, etc).

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

The retainers are just a UI so don't really need to go anywhere. The problem is the underlying implementation that passes all of this information around in structures as opposed to database keys that could be referenced only when needed for processing. I also suspect from the various SE statements I've read that all of it is processed on the server side when to be honest some would be better off if it was passed to the client to handle. None of this is insurmountable to resolve just boils down to SE deciding it is in their best interest to do so.

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Are you sure they are just a UI? I was sure they are a workaround of 1.0 system and still retain the core 1.0. It is just not visible. That is why when you summon retainers you get the message no longer selling. I was not playing when retainers were hidden so maybe this is wrong. But why keep them then?

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Originally Posted by DarkDedede

I'd imagine they could either limit "inventory bait" to just those baits that are purchased with scrips. The "not premium" bait could be repurposed to act similar to spear heads.

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Since we have so many levels of fishers and not a lot of skills compared to other DoL. Why not make the bait/lure into skills? Use the appropriate skill/buff for fishing type. Not optimal.

But SE has failed in space expansion. If 4.1 is out of the question that probably means half a year 4.2 at the earliest. They should design within the limitations to make the game a better experience.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Are you sure they are just a UI? I was sure they are a workaround of 1.0 system and still retain the core 1.0. It is just not visible. That is why when you summon retainers you get the message no longer selling. I was not playing when retainers were hidden so maybe this is wrong. But why keep them then?

Since we have so many levels of fishers and not a lot of skills compared to other DoL. Why not make the bait/lure into skills? Use the appropriate skill/buff for fishing type. Not optimal.

But SE has failed in space expansion. If 4.1 is out of the question that probably means half a year 4.2 at the earliest. They should design within the limitations to make the game a better experience.

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It is 1.0, the reason they do that is because in 1.0 you could actually go to them in the wards and if you did that, there was no taking them off the ability to sell things. So you could trade items without interfering with that. They should did more changing for item management for 2.0+ so that is how old this problem is, it is a 2.0+ old problem, except 2 retainers during the start of 2.0 was fine, near the end it was getting strained. The reason for that is THE SAME AS NOW! item currency bloat, gear being outdated too quickly, and glam system (with 5 grades of prisms) was made. So people started to glam collect and really strained the 2 retainers.

So for 1.0 the reason they did that is because it had to, it fit the system, to interact remotely with the retainer you had to pull them off the wards, and you had the option to go to them in the wards so you would not have to take them down off the listing if you simply needed to exchange items. But in 2.0 + there is no reason for it, other then keeping the old code. So this is a problem that should of been addressed for the release of 2.0 and they kept ignoring it and ignoring it, making the problem bigger and bigger till now it is at the breaking point. (chaning the coding/ updating the UI)

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

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I remember the search feature added to the wards. But I wasn't sure if they had scrapped it and just kept a UI for lore (what a waste). Or if the old system is still present in the background.

It is funny. How hard is it to build an auction house? Yet SE tries to make it harder. I remember the reason from 1.0 for no AH. It stops gil sellers. Delusional at best, detrimental to player base at worst.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's nice to see people still like to misrepresent positions and arguments and act as though we, the customer, should roll over and be happy with whatever SE deigns to give us.

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Accuses others of misrepresenting...

Counts the "appearance log" that functionally acts in a similar manner to achievements - it's a check mark that you've unlocked/completed something that can then be accessed at a specific NPC to change appearance data on a single item, not an actual inventory slot - and tries to pass it off in a hilariously disingenuous "inventory" count.

Come on, you're better than that.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

I remember the search feature added to the wards. But I wasn't sure if they had scrapped it and just kept a UI for lore (what a waste). Or if the old system is still present in the background.

It is funny. How hard is it to build an auction house? Yet SE tries to make it harder. I remember the reason from 1.0 for no AH. It stops gil sellers. Delusional at best, detrimental to player base at worst.

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When 1.0 first released they had 1 ward.. best way I can explain it that was not in 1.0 is housing now. Picture hosing with 1 ward, no sub ward, you just enter it, there be no reason for a search. After a while they added more wards, just like our housing. Now after that came out, you got a list to what ward to go to, metal , heavy armor, etc (forgot all the ward names) and the search fuction was for finding retainers that was selling the item you where looking for. So you type in what you are looking for, or search it (like our mb pretty much) and ill tell you where the retainer was that sold the item, then you physically go to the retainer to buy it. Same way for your retainers, if you physically go to them, you trade them without taking them off the search. The only way items was pulled down from it, if you where interacting with the retainer's bazzar to put more items up. If you where simply trading items with your retainer, it did not pull your sales off the search.

That is why 2.0+ the retainer UI makes no sense, it fit 1.0's system, but that is no longer true.

Also the place/hallway/path (whatever you want to call it) to enter the wards to an extent still exist, except uladh. Now the little hallway path branch that went to them does not exist, while uldah's GC is in part of that area. (where the GC is, if that wall was not there where the FC chest is, that would be the entrance to the wards in uldah.)
https://i.gyazo.com/5b1b218b01048df5...d7a4584271.jpg
that used to be the zone to uldah's selling wards

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Are you sure they are just a UI? I was sure they are a workaround of 1.0 system and still retain the core 1.0. It is just not visible. That is why when you summon retainers you get the message no longer selling. I was not playing when retainers were hidden so maybe this is wrong. But why keep them then?

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We might be thinking the same thing with just a different way of how we see the program structure. I look at the retainer as the UI to a set of processes. Retainers could just as well be a chair or a stuffed animal. The problem isn't the retainer UI concept itself but the processes they spawn. In fact I rather like the interactive character ability they bring. If my understanding is close to correct the processes the retainers spawn all run on the server side and the data structures are copied and passed around between the various servers that perform each of the different functions. This is the problem that as the retainer inventory and character profiles grow they send more data between servers clogging up the communications stack and taking up more memory with replicated data. It is straight forward to resolve in multiple ways from a high level design viewpoint and should be able to be done in stages but SE has to be willing to assign the human resources to do it. When I was still working one of the things I did on projects I led was have the team bring in problem areas with old code. It could be a problem for many reasons such as too many code bugs, poor code structure that made modification risky, poor performance, etc. We would pick one or two to fix in addition to the new functions we were adding. To me the inventory issue is one of those areas I would have said let's fix for this next release.

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Originally Posted by Claviusnex

We might be thinking the same thing with just a different way of how we see the program structure. I look at the retainer as the UI to a set of processes. Retainers could just as well be a chair or a stuffed animal. The problem isn't the retainer UI concept itself but the processes they spawn. In fact I rather like the interactive character abilitythey bring. If my understanding is close to correct the processes the retainers spawn all run on the server side and the data structures are copied and passed around between the various servers that perform each of the different functions. This is the problem that as the retainer inventory and character profiles grow they send more data between servers clogging up the communications stack and taking up more memory with replicated data. It is straight forward to resolve in multiple ways from a high level design viewpoint and should be able to be done in stages but SE has to be willing to assign the human resources to do it. When I was still working one of the things I did on projects I led was have the team bring in problem areas with old code. It could be a problem for many reasons such as too many code bugs, poor code structure that made modification risky, poor performance, etc. We would pick one or two to fix in addition to the new functions we were adding. To me the inventory issue is one of those areas I would have said let's fix for this next release.

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The retainers should got their overhaul with the rest of 2.0
It could of been addressed and part of the update to go into heavensward of 3.0
Now it NEEDS to be addressed because it is breaking down "we can't do this we can't do that, retainers can't handle anymore unless we go to a new system, welp, that could of been down in 2.0 and 3.0 , now it NEEDS TO BE DONE!

I dunno man, something something servers explode something.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Counts the "appearance log" that functionally acts in a similar manner to achievements - it's a check mark that you've unlocked/completed something that can then be accessed at a specific NPC to change appearance data on a single item, not an actual inventory slot - and tries to pass it off in a hilariously disingenuous "inventory" count.

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In Final Fantasy XIV, we have to KEEP every armor that we want to glamour, thus demanding inventory spots. You'll notice I specified effective inventory for my tally, as each armor skin, each toy, and each heirloom once took up its own inventory slot before Blizzard expanded their collections system. The fact that it doesn't now changes nothing about WoW's effective inventory.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

The retainers should got their overhaul with the rest of 2.0
It could of been addressed and part of the update to go into heavensward of 3.0
Now it NEEDS to be addressed because it is breaking down "we can't do this we can't do that, retainers can't handle anymore unless we go to a new system, welp, that could of been down in 2.0 and 3.0 , now it NEEDS TO BE DONE!

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This.

5.0 is only going to add another hojillion items to the game. It's not like MMO databases ever get SMALLER so the dev team really needs to get their shit together and deal with this sooner rather than later.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

This.

5.0 is only going to add another hojillion items to the game. It's not like MMO databases ever get SMALLER so the dev team really needs to get their shit together and deal with this sooner rather than later.

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It is later, it is fast approaching too late to fix ...

The "sooner" would apply to fixing it for 2.0

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

We don't need any more retainers beyond two according to the devs - the developers said not a lot of people have more than two retainers so it is not needed...I wonder why so few people use them? Hmmm...

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They ether sale there gear that they can no longer use/throw it away or they do not do any crafting.

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Originally Posted by Blackcanary

They ether sale there gear that they can no longer use/throw it away or they do not do any crafting.

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... or they have 7 alts that they had join their FC and move items back and forth using the FC chest.

Just the topic title: yes I want a 3rd retainer for free lol.

Adding my support OP. A third retainer is the very least they should give us. I am paying for one extra at the moment and I'm still squeezed.

I see there are a couple of people posting with concerns for SE's profits - the company is doing just fine. I don't think this is going to give their shareholders palpitations. If it helps retain subs, giving us more free storage might even save them more than it costs.

And a few others don't need a third retainer and don't think anyone else should need one either - congratulations on your amazing organisation skills!
I spend a lot of my play-time making space by putting items I don't need immediately onto the MB, posting them to friends, vendoring them or sending them to alts via the FC chest and personally, I'd rather be doing something more interesting.
Note: Hiring retainers is completely optional. If you don't need a third, just don't hire one. This won't negatively impact you at all.

Two things that are the issue here, crafting mats, and storage of glamors.

These can be addressed by adding specialized tabbed storage ALA guildwars. If you want past a stack, then it'll use up actual inventory slots.
Ravamp the armory so you can store non specialized armors.

All things considered, I love this game, and am very glad they keep crafting relevant, even at low levels.
But because of that, they need to revamp the system to deal with it.

Something else that might help issues would be marketboard options.
1) allow cross server sales via MB, so you have a larger pool to sell wares at, as well being able to buy.
2) allow people to buy only PART of a stack instead of the entire stack of goods people toss in.
I am SO very tired of needing 1 or 2 items, and all that's available is a stack of 99 of something.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

It is later, it is fast approaching too late to fix ...

The "sooner" would apply to fixing it for 2.0

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Sooner would be 3.0. Bear in mind, Yoshida's team was dealt a decidedly unfair hand with 2.0. Square Enix never intended for FFXIV to be anything more than a salvage project because they bordered on bankruptcy. Corners were cut for necessary cost efficiency, especially as the devs were attempting to make 1.x playable while simultaneously recreating it on a shoestring budget. I don't think it's fair to criticise them that far back. The way I see it, A Realm Reborn gets a pass. Heavensward understandably played it safe since it was the first chance they really had to add their own spin and not rely on remnants from 1.x. Stormblood, however, is when things need to change and grow. Frankly, inventory should have already been addressed alongside glamour and housing. The fact we only got half of the inventory expansion and nothing else is... disconcerting.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Sooner would be 3.0. Bear in mind, Yoshida's team was dealt a decidedly unfair hand with 2.0. Square Enix never intended for FFXIV to be anything more than a salvage project because they bordered on bankruptcy. Corners were cut for necessary cost efficiency, especially as the devs were attempting to make 1.x playable while simultaneously recreating it on a shoestring budget. I don't think it's fair criticise them that far back. The way I see it, A Realm Reborn got a pass. Heavensward understandably played it safe since it was first chance they really had to add their own spin and not rely on remnants from 1.x. Stormblood, however, is whenthings need to change and grow. Frankly, inventory should have already been addressed alongside glamour and housing. The fact we only got half of the inventory expansion and nothing else is... disconcerting.

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Ill yield to that, at the VERY LEAST!!! we should got the armory expand now in 3.0 because NIN,DRK,AST,MCH was introduced since getting the 25 armory. I was VERY SHOCKED they did nothing then (and I did want to speak up about it, but I had no access to the forums then, I did send ingame suggestions mail about it though)

They really should of done more for SB release, even repeating some of 2.0 mistakes in it, very disappointed. Ill give them 2.0 but there is no excuse for 3.0 and 4.0

What I meant was it is something that could of been taken care of 2.0 or at least be aware "hey this system is based on 1.0 still maybe we do not have enough resources to deal with it now, but it is something we have to deal with and fix at some point" So it is basically a 2.0+ problem that still exists, so saying "hey, why do we have this problem still going in the second expansion when something could been done to address it in 3.0?" while being something to admit being a problem on the release of 2.0 (the coding of the retainers, coding in how the game sends and receives data, so on)