Is there any reason to focus on 'solo' players..?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

If people have honest questions, I'm willing to answer them. Honestly, 2 weeks after launch, there was a guy that didn't know how to move, talk or even attack. I spent 3 hours with the little falaffle, teaching them every basic thing about the game. If you ask a question, I will answer it, but don't you dare blame your lack of knowledge on SE. It's not their fault that you don't take the time to look at the official site, let alone ask someone in game.

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A) you dont know everything
B) not everything is on the lodestone yet
C) They only started putting things on the lodestone when they realized "Oh hey maybe we should tell them about some things rather than have third parties deal with it"
D) its quite possible there's stuff we havent even figured out yet.

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Originally Posted by Randis

Thank you so much Dobunt!
What were we without you!
I totally agree, ingame tutorials and ingame help/info is totally retarded and
totally needless, right? Coz we have can ask you if we need to know something.
And those retarded ps3 players simply can put a computer next to their couch so
they can look up things on forums.
I think SE should hire you, seriously

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lol...PS2/360 people never had a problem in 11. They never had a problem in Phantasy star either. Demon's Souls? No problem there and that game is worse about that than 14. Do you need a tutorial everytime you play a new COD game? Do you need a tutorial everytime you buy a new microwave? I don't think so. USE COMMON SENSE. I realize that it's not too common...but come on. If all else fails, you can easily ask people what to do. Chat is fairly simple to figure out and if you are having problems with that, I'm sorry...but you might want to consider some type of neurological enhancement.

Signs of a bad server community
1 getting upset at mmo newbies
2 telling learn2play
3 telling them to go look it up
4 telling they are lazy for not knowing about said sites.
5 complaing about helping others.

All these are sitgns of a bad mmo community. If ppl do this most of the time They they shouldn't play mmo. Sorry not everyone wants to keep logging off a game just to look something up, cuz a vet is to lazy to help.

There is no such thing as a dumb question. Also from my understanding getting lvl 20 is not all that hard. And also Tutorials are not always the way to go. Players should be helping other players. Its how we always have learned. How do babies talk? parents teach them. I learn better from other players then reading a wall o text. I read the manuel but perfer a better and easier understanding. Oh and don't pull the "i never got help, I did it on my own" as a badge of hnor/ excuse to not help someone.

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Originally Posted by Nephera

A) you dont know everything
B) not everything is on the lodestone yet
C) They only started putting things on the lodestone when they realized "Oh hey maybe we should tell them about some things rather than have third parties deal with it"
D) its quite possible there's stuff we havent even figured out yet.

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1) There is someone out there that DOES know what I don't know
2) The basic stuff is.
3) I've noticed most basic info (such as the instruction manual) on release or right after game launch
4) Exactly and that's good. I don't want to be spoonfed everything about the game. I like theories such as XI's moon phase vs fishing result theory. If you know everything about the game, it becomes less fun. Humans have a natural need for adventure. If a game has no adventure, how can you find that fun?

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Signs of a bad server community
1 getting upset at mmo newbies
2 telling learn2play
3 telling them to go look it up
4 telling they are lazy for not knowing about said sites.
5 complaing about helping others.

All these are sitgns of a bad mmo community. If ppl do this most of the time They they shouldn't play mmo. Sorry not everyone wants to keep logging off a game just to look something up, cuz a vet is to lazy to help.

There is no such thing as a dumb question. Also from my understanding getting lvl 20 is not all that hard. And also Tutorials are not always the way to go. Players should be helping other players. Its how we always have learned. How do babies talk? parents teach them. I learn better from other players then reading a wall o text. I read the manuel but perfer a better and easier understanding. Oh and don't pull the "i never got help, I did it on my own" as a badge of hnor/ excuse to not help someone.

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I don't see anyone asking for help. All I see are a bunch of excuses as to why they don't know what to do. As I said before, if you ask a question, I'm willing to answer it...but if you don't ask, you have no right to blame others.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I agreed on some stuff. But this dude... Is the worst attitude for mmo. Asking questions increases social interaction. It makes the game have a community.

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Well said. I wish there was a better sense of community in MMOs these days. People aren't nearly as helpful as they once were.

I used to really value that back in the old days of FFXI. And that was one reason I was interested in coming to FFXIV, because of the community it tends to attract.

By comparison, the game with the worst community I ever experienced was Aion. People were vicious and hateful, and laughed at each others' misfortune. It literally was not possible to ask a question in game without getting trolled. Eventually, it wore me down and contributed to my quitting the game.

Though I think the FF crowd has one of the best gaming communities I've ever experienced, it still remains that you can't always depend on others to help you.

Dub you forget that most ppl ASK QUESTIONS. ffxi was my first mmo and I asked questions and ppl replied. Wiki was never around. PPl were more willing to help before wiki/zam was made. Since these are now around ppl refer them alot and I hate it. I much rather talk to player and possible make a friend, then to log off a game just to read some all of text. Refering websites don't make communities. It just makes for lazy vets.
What is the chatgood for if ppl don;t bother talking? Or mmo fir that fact. Guides are good for signle player games buit they ruin mmo. Sure the players get better but community feel decreases. No one talks, why bother if ima just told to look up a website.

Kilta, I haven't seen more than a few people ask questions here on Figaro, but when someone does ask a question, that question gets answered with a legit response. If people don't ask a question, people won't answer that question and the person who didn't ask has no right to complain. Sorry, I have no sympathy.

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Still, leves seem better correct? Well, as far as SP goes, yes, but let's say that one day, you have a day off so you can play that entire day!. Let's say you play 1 straight day for...10 hours
Leves: 25-50k.
Grind: 100-150k

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Now let's say you have two hours... or more than that. And rather than being a tardface and picking one or the other, your group has this magnificent idea of starting with leves and then griding afterwards!

now you've got 35-75K SP!

But wait, there's more! What if... and I don't know if I should really be saying this here, because it's a trade secret... but what if... you have a linkshell with FIFTEEN MEMBERS who can all party up and do five star linked leves for four straight hours! Considering that you link at most 3 leves at any one point in time... that's an astounding 100-200k SP!

Cripes!

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I don't see anyone asking for help. All I see are a bunch of excuses as to why they don't know what to do. As I said before, if you ask a question, I'm willing to answer it...but if you don't ask, you have no right to blame others.

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all I see is you making up excuses. The other said why they don't bother. They get ppl like you who go "wtf.... why do you not know this @ x lvl." then refers them to wiki or zam.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

lol...PS2/360 people never had a problem in 11.

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They sure did, thats why a lot of people flocked to this when they promised it wouldn't be like 11.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

They never had a problem in Phantasy star either.

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Oh yes the mmo that died, good example.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Demon's Souls? No problem there and that game is worse about that than 14.

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A) Demon's souls has a tutorial stage
B) Demon's souls lets players leave hints for eachother in game
C) there is a huge pile of permanent hints in the nexus.

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Do you need a tutorial everytime you play a new COD game?

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no but there's often a training stage at the beginning, and some people are new to the franchise

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Do you need a tutorial everytime you buy a new microwave?

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No but they come with detailed instructions for someone who has never purchased a microwave before.
And does the microwave have about 100 buttons, a social system, and a complex rpg structure?

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Originally Posted by Dubont

I don't think so. USE COMMON SENSE. I realize that it's not too common...but come on.

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why dont you :|

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Originally Posted by Dubont

If all else fails, you can easily ask people what to do.

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People do not know everything

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Kilta, I haven't seen more than a few people ask questions here on Figaro, but when someone does ask a question, that question gets answered with a legit response. If people don't ask a question, people won't answer that question and the person who didn't ask has no right to complain. Sorry, I have no sympathy.

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umm do you get what I'm saying.... you have no right to complain actually and they do. They might have asked question in the past and got bs replies. Read my post next time. Might learn something :)

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Originally Posted by ARoy

Now let's say you have two hours... or more than that. And rather than being a tardface and picking one or the other, your group has this magnificent idea of starting with leves and then griding afterwards!

now you've got 35-75K SP!

But wait, there's more! What if... and I don't know if I should really be saying this here, because it's a trade secret... but what if... you have a linkshell with FIFTEEN MEMBERS who can all party up and do five star linked leves for four straight hours! Considering that you link at most 3 leves at any one point in time... that's an astounding 100-200k SP!

Cripes!

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lol you haven't played very much have you? Most leve groups, from what I've seen, get together and do leves...then break afterwards because people think that grinding is counter productive compared to leves so they are not willing to do both. Why don't you play just a little bit more and see what the people in this game are really like when it comes to parties..

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

all I see is you making up excuses. The other said why they don't bother. They get ppl like you who go "wtf.... why do you not know this @ x lvl." then refers them to wiki or zam.

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Like me? Ok...lol honestly though..how can you not know that you need gear by r20? Even if you had asked and got a bs response, surely someone, at some point, would have said "hey, you have to go here." FFXI never said HEY! YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE AH! LULZ! I don't expect 14 to either. Upon exploring the map, it didn't take long for me to realize that the orange dots were specialized merchants. I'm not saying that everyone is able to think like that...but not everyone needs a tutorial and I honestly see no need for one.

I agree I played Aion for 6 weeks its al lol learn2play carebear. Someone had to audacity to tell me that I was filling the server page with unneeded spam cuz I was looking for a legion at lvl 10. I knew nothing about the game, The manual had really no info. I pretty much was alone. Even pvp was icky. If your getting ganked on missions no one helps, they feel its beneath them.

ffxiv forum is turning into Aions And that is the lowest of low.

Instead of pointless debates lets help each other out. Like real mmo players...

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Originally Posted by Dubont

Like me? Ok...lol honestly though..how can you not know that you need gear by r20? Even if you had asked and got a bs response, surely someone, at some point, would have said "hey, you have to go here." FFXI never said HEY! YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE AH! LULZ! I don't expect 14 to either. Upon exploring the map, it didn't take long for me to realize that the orange dots were specialized merchants. I'm not saying that everyone is able to think like that...but not everyone needs a tutorial and I honestly see no need for one.

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actually. I had no idea where to gear at first. And the replies I got was mature. PPl ask where/ what to use for gear alot of the time in ffxi. And b4 wiki ppl would offer suggestions on type of gear. Now its "look it up".

I'm kinda starting to think you never played ffxi or not for very long. FFXI before wiki had a helpful community. Now its "go to wiki."

I've been here for no more than three weeks and my linkshell does this bro. We've got 20 members and by the time someone leaves others ask for a spot on the team. I did leves and behest for 8 hours straight that day. It may not have been 15 members at any one time but the amount SP I got is way more than you can get killing regular monsters.

This is actually one of the issues I was talking about earlier, back in the start of this topic. About Solo vs. Party and the quality of leves and behest. In my experience, you actually get better SP soloing non-leve monsters. I can only imagine getting good SP from monsters in a really advanced area for a non-leve grind fest.

EDIT: Dubont, you and everyone else have obviously reached an Impasse on... well, several issues. Can you please just stop? This thread isn't here for one person or another to spam the same opinion over and over and over like you've been doing. It's obvious no one agrees with you (entirely) on any one subject. There's no point in continuing.

Personally, I'm going to say if you continue you're just obviously trolling. I'll ignore it and advise everyone else to as well.

Moving on, I'd like more feedback on the initial post. I edited it to include a list of ideas I'd come up with since the start of this thread, and I'd like to know what people think on them.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

I agree I played Aion for 6 weeks its al lol learn2play carebear.

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OMG, tell me about it. If I heard the word 'carebear' one more time, I was gonna snap on a random elitist troll.

I played on Marchutan before the server merges. Marchutan no longer exists. Thank the Gods. I'm glad it faded into oblivion. Worst server EVAR.

Aion-NA is now down to 6 servers.

Also again lvling to 20 is not all that heard and ppl prob bum rushed it with starter gear. Not that uncommon in mmo actually. So it isd completely understandable. Again instead of being rude help out. Help out no matter what.

Why not ? SE likes money, the Casual(Solo friendly crowd) Outnumbers the Party( Old hardcore elite crowd) 120,000 to 1 (If i give wow 100k hardcore gamers) 120k x 14.99 is way better than 1 x 14.99

It's math, we have more of you, and we dont QQ about every little single thing lol

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

OMG, tell me about it. If I heard the word 'carebear' one more time, I was gonna snap on a random elitist troll.

I played on Marchutan before the server merges. Marchutan no longer exists. Thank the Gods. I'm glad it faded into oblivion. Worst server EVAR.

Aion-NA is now down to 6 servers.

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I was there for the merge and was on that server. The complaints of naming was to stupid. But ya guys go to www.Aiononline.com to see how NOT to use a forums. : / so much crap on there it makes WoWs moon guard golshire look like a 5 star hotel.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Also again lvling to 20 is not all that heard and ppl prob bum rushed it with starter gear. Not that uncommon in mmo actually. So it isd completely understandable. Again instead of being rude help out. Help out no matter what.

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Not to disagree with you, but sometimes people are just lazy, for example sometimes people ask, how do i do X or Y quest, when all they have to do is read the quest log <.<

We are such a joined community debating so strongly over irrelevant topics :D

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Originally Posted by ARoy

I've been here for no more than three weeks and my linkshell does this bro. We've got 20 members and by the time someone leaves others ask for a spot on the team. I did leves and behest for 8 hours straight that day. It may not have been 15 members at any one time but the amount SP I got is way more than you can get killing regular monsters.

This is actually one of the issues I was talking about earlier, back in the start of this topic. About Solo vs. Party and the quality of leves and behest. In my experience, you actually get better SP soloing non-leve monsters. I can only imagine getting good SP from monsters in a really advanced area for a non-leve grind fest.

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LOL! Dude...behest may be good at YOUR level, but when it boils down to it, 3-5k sp from behest each hour is nothing compared to a good grind party where you can easily make double that. And yes...3-5k sp is all you get from behest.

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Why not ? SE likes money, the Casual(Solo friendly crowd) Outnumbers the Party( Old hardcore elite crowd) 120,000 to 1 (If i give wow 100k hardcore gamers) 120k x 14.99 is way better than 1 x 14.99

It's math, we have more of you, and we dont QQ about every little single thing lol

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i like parties and not hard core elite. And there is more of you cuz well.... you guys like to troll mmo. >.>

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Originally Posted by Ostia

Not to disagree with you, but sometimes people are just lazy, for example sometimes people ask, how do i do X or Y quest, when all they have to do is read the quest log <.<

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>.> your just a troll though. And really some ppl might not understand the objectives. It happens. It took me a while to figure out some WoW quests. Even with reading the chat log. I ended up getting quest helper cuz no one would help me out. And I had 2 hrs a day on WoW also when I played it.

Dobund... go play a game or something.
Most people do have a life you know.
A game needs to be user-friendly, period.
Don't assume all but you are retards and need tutorials for every quest, this is not the issue.
Fact is that simple basics were/are poorly explained and even those who did play FFXI hardcore for many years had
had to look up things online.
Sure you can always ask around but you need to understand that:

- complete noobs are not yet in a LS where they could ask
- most people ignore noobs who shout question about basics
- many people do not want to be forced to shout questions because basics are poorly documented
- people expect user-friendly game play and not poorly worded and often unreliable answers from strangers in/game.


You are making assumptions, you do not know if people on PS2/Xbox had issues with FF gameplay. They had/have egro there are so many fan-sites offering info on all srt of things, crafting databases, tutorials and so on.
I did spend a lot of time in FFXI and FFXIV and i think i have a pretty good knowledge of all available features, personally i didn't have much of problem to begin with but then again i am a hardcore gamer and developer since 20 years.
I would love to see FFXIV as a large and successful MMO, i would love to see servers full of people 247 and to have it so you need to make the game a lot more user friendly.

Don't down on people who have better things to do than looking up things on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

actually. I had no idea where to gear at first. And the replies I got was mature. PPl ask where/ what to use for gear alot of the time in ffxi. And b4 wiki ppl would offer suggestions on type of gear. Now its "look it up".

I'm kinda starting to think you never played ffxi or not for very long. FFXI before wiki had a helpful community. Now its "go to wiki."

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Dubont, Remora. Played for over 6 years. Leveled 3 jobs to 75 (because those were the only 3 that I liked). "quit" shortly after the release of Abyssea. I don't mind people asking questions! Are you not getting what I'm saying? If people ask, normally, I'll reply. Some people may not. What I'm saying is that the people who DON'T ask questions should not complain when they don't know what to do. Everytime I join a leve party, I ask, "healer or DD?" The typical response is healer, but I ask anyway. Why? Because CON doesn't have an assigned role so I ask what the party wants so that I don't look like the guy who is r47 and knows nothing. SO again, I have no problem with people who ask questions because they don't know. I have a problem with the people who blame others for them not knowing because they don't ask or bother looking it up.

You can solo leves, no problem. You can go to dungs or open world and kill lower mobs, which gives you 100+sp after beating them. I wonder what people mean by solo - to kill mob for 700 SP ? Is that so ? I think its quite good now.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

i like parties and not hard core elite. And there is more of you cuz well.... you guys like to troll mmo. >.>

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Indeed the majority of the MMO player base are Trolls!!

Do they give you cookies or something for that Mr. Whiteknight ?

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Expecting people to always party in a game where 30~ thousand players are spread across 18 servers isnt exactly realistic expecially when not everyone is willing to party with people who dont speak their language. I solo a good bit and i duo with my wife a good bit BUT because I choose to play FFXIV in limsa and not uldah I dont have access to parties very often. So should I be forced to play only in the uldah area for the sake of partying?

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This is so true sometimes even the LL leve counter is empty.

i'm just curious to where this 25-50k leve party number came from. a 4 person crew can get more than that in a single leve party. in fact they can get closer to 100k with just 4 people. that's not counting if you have an 8 person party with double runs on quite a few leves. i was able to get from middle of 47 to 50 on my pug in lil over 24 hrs and i did no grinding. considering that's over 200k of sp i must have gotten more than 50k off the leves.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i'm just curious to where this 25-50k leve party number came from. a 4 person crew can get more than that in a single leve party. in fact they can get closer to 100k with just 4 people. that's not counting if you have an 8 person party with double runs on quite a few leves. i was able to get from middle of 47 to 50 on my pug in lil over 24 hrs and i did no grinding. considering that's over 200k of sp i must have gotten more than 50k off the leves.

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he pulled them out his ass

I used to be huge into FFXI for more years than I care to admit. I do a LOT of solo play right now though. The option to go play solo is great at times but I would really enjoy having some good parties here and there. I loved getting into a nice grind party in FFXI (when I say 'nice' I don't necessarily mean getting a ton of exp in a small amount of time though that was awesome too). I enjoyed being in a relaxed party of cool people and just generally enjoying both the game and the people in it. A big part of MMOs is the other players and right now it seems like aside from NMs, linkshell conversations and behests people just ignore each other. Hell, even in behests a lot of people just ignore the other players. I would really love to see some kind of at least somewhat challenging PvE content added where you could get a nice team of people together, perhaps even a duo, and grind for however long you wanted. This could even just come down to some adjustments on things like spawn times and difficulty of creatures in certain areas. Another thing I would love to see added is some kind of massive battle content (i.e, beseiged or campaign) where players would have the chance to earn a little extra sp/exp and possibly other rewards fighting extremely difficult mobs and working with others. Right now it just seems like after you solo your 8 leves you either log out and wait for the reset or you craft. Leves are nice but they should definitely not be the majority of the game's PvE content.

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Originally Posted by TzinnFoxeye

I used to be huge into FFXI for more years than I care to admit. I do a LOT of solo play right now though. The option to go play solo is great at times but I would really enjoy having some good parties here and there. I loved getting into a nice grind party in FFXI (when I say 'nice' I don't necessarily mean getting a ton of exp in a small amount of time though that was awesome too). I enjoyed being in a relaxed party of cool people and just generally enjoying both the game and the people in it. A big part of MMOs is the other players and right now it seems like aside from NMs, linkshell conversations and behests people just ignore each other. Hell, even in behests a lot of people just ignore the other players. I would really love to see some kind of at least somewhat challenging PvE content added where you could get a nice team of people together, perhaps even a duo, and grind for however long you wanted. This could even just come down to some adjustments on things like spawn times and difficulty of creatures in certain areas. Another thing I would love to see added is some kind of massive battle content (i.e, beseiged or campaign) where players would have the chance to earn a little extra sp/exp and possibly other rewards fighting extremely difficult mobs and working with others. Right now it just seems like after you solo your 8 leves you either log out and wait for the reset or you craft. Leves are nice but they should definitely not be the majority of the game's PvE content.

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I think everyone agrees more or less that we need more to do than leves.

I'd like to see more proposals~

"Make the story quests more intuitive. No "Look for NPC X" from one person and then checking your journal and finding out that you're actually looking for NPC Y." +11111

As it is boring as hell so all am doing is skip event > walk forward if i am in an instance > move to this area YES > skip cutscene > talk to this who looks more unique > skip event ..

bla bla bla

i like c00kies!

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Originally Posted by Holyfye

"Make the story quests more intuitive. No "Look for NPC X" from one person and then checking your journal and finding out that you're actually looking for NPC Y." +11111

As it is boring as hell so all am doing is skip event > walk forward if i am in an instance > move to this area YES > skip cutscene > talk to this who looks more unique > skip event ..

bla bla bla

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Yeah... IMHO... I'm sorry SE, but... the Gridanian opening quests were just bad writing. Flat-out bad writing. The kind of stuff you would expect from a middle-school creative writing class. And quality itself aside, all that jibber-jabber about woodsin this and greenwrath that... I literally made a conscious decision not to raise my Pie score ever because of how much it reminded me of IRL religion. Some of the pushiest NPCs I've ever encountered in my entire gaming career.

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Originally Posted by ARoy

Yeah... IMHO... I'm sorry SE, but... the Gridanian opening quests were just bad writing. Flat-out bad writing. The kind of stuff you would expect from a middle-school creative writing class. And quality itself aside, all that jibber-jabber about woodsin this and greenwrath that... I literally made a conscious decision not to raise my Pie score ever because of how much it reminded me of IRL religion. Some of the pushiest NPCs I've ever encountered in my entire gaming career.

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Grid made me feel pretty unwelcome, I remember thinking "well this is a nice place to visit but i sure am going to get the hell out of here as soon as i can"

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

thats yoshi-p I'm talking well before this game was launched. And infact I read every letter from the producer and not once he said solo.. casual don"t always mean solo.

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He talks about keeping casual player in mind you are correct.