[Stormblood] [Dragoon Rotation] COME ON AND SLAM

Thanks for the insights. Your guide does a really good job at helping people learn the job (e.g. general rotation, openers, cd/ogcd management), Momo's guide gave some good examples at how he optimizes his play further by taking into account the encounter designs. While his play probably requires masterful play from the rest of the group as well, I believe that by seeing what he does we can learn a bit about the thought process behind it, as in why he does this and not that. I agree that this kind of optimization is sorta robotic, and probably requires you to map every single gcd in each phase. It's definitely not for everyone, and it probably only matters when you're squeezing that last % of performance out of your job. Then again, personally what I consider as the best thing about these videos:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

If I had praise: Momo has masterful uptime, observe it closely.

---

So much this. I'm impressed at how good he is at maintaining uptime. Personally I'm not that good, so if I try doing the same thing I'd most likely end up wiping the group or burdening the healers more often than not, but it's interesting to see how some of the really good players do things. Those "wow so you can do that?" moments are probably the main reason why I enjoy watching speedkill runs from Momo's group, Angered, Rushers, etc.

Spent a couple of hours using the stat calculator that was put up on reddit , and the assumption that once we hit 3500 combined DT and Crit that Crit takes over as main secondary stat trying to perfect a BiS for us using Ariyala. This was my result - http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/1271B Hopefully this will save others time if they're in need of a BiS.

Things to note on it, looking at our current speeds we don't want to drop below 700 SS or else our rotation gets a bit messy. Persimmon Leaf Sushi will end up being our BiS food due to it's high crit value but currently Pork Kakuni is what most raiders will want to use for the extra Vit, that is until BiS gear starts to make up the Vit. Finally the body is the Genji due to the Crit limit being broken and thus the extra crit makes up for more damage than what the Lost Allagan gives.

Stat weights are close with the difference between builds being around 0.15% difference.

I know official stat weights aren't really a thing yet, but does anyone have any thoughts on pentamelded crafted chest vs. the 320 genta piece? That +244 skill speed on the crafted bit makes me uneasy (especially coupled with my +268 SS from my creation lance), but then again we're talking a free 64 direct hit from the extra melds...

I'm sure it's splitting hairs, here, but I want to be certain before I blow through a bunch of materia.

Tough call, knowing that stat weights are kinda bogus and even if they were valid it'd have to be relative to your existing gear. But basically the entire i320 BiS is pentamelded gear even if only by the tiniest bit. And the i330 chest, if melded, should beat the G6-pentamelded ornate chest by a razor's edge, if that's the next question.

Heck, the SS weight estimate I have, as low as it is, is probably higher than reality, since I averaged auto-attack's damage from arbitrarily-selected logs and then applied an estimated SS buff to it, which I also believe is higher than reality. I can't really prove it either way without the relevant formulas, though.

It should also be noted that Nemekh's sheet downgraded the estimated DH formula coefficient very slightly last week. I can't comment on how accurate it is or was, since I haven't had a look-see at the data and I don't know what sort of means was used to come by that estimate. While it's sufficient to work with, there are two grains of salt I offer:

• If linear regression is the primary tool used, the slope might be biased slightly low. This has been a problem in FFXIV formula estimation before, it's not exactly easy to escape.
• Also, to empirically measure a proc rate with a high level of confidence takes umpteen zillion trials. For example, if you take 20000 swings and get 1000 direct hits, you have not exactly shown that it is a 5.0% rate; you have shown that there is a 95% chance the rate is between 4.695% and 5.305%. That's kind of subtle if you're really hoping to show it's tiered at the tenths place: for the same level of confidence it would take ~184k swings to say "okay there's a 5% chance it's not 5.0%", and ~735k swings plus a similar amount at an adjacent tier to really go "yup, we've got two digits in this humpy-bumpy" (4.9501% to 5.0499%). That's assuming your observed rate is absurdly close to the real rate. Also, it takes more(!) swings the closer the theoretical rate gets to 50%. Naturally, this is tempered considerably by doing testing on more levels of the stat--the slope is a better thing to go by in many respects--but be aware the scope of the problem is a bit annoying like that. I have an aversion to hidden proc rates ._.

Thanks for the response!

I gotta say, I was pretty worried about jumping up to 1443 skill speed from around 930, but my numbers are not too shabby (just parsed 90+ on OS1 and OS2). Currently on OS3 it just feels like my cooldowns are aligning a little more cleanly than before. Purely anecdotal, I'm sure, but it seems I was all worked up over nothing.

I thought for sure the lost allagan pants would be BiS thought.

Quote:

---

Heavy Thrust Potency increased from 100 to 140.
Chaos Thrust Combo potency increased from 220 to 230.
Potency when executed from a target's rear reduced from 150 to 140.
Fang and Claw Potency increased from 200 to 250.
Wheeling Thrust Potency increased from 200 to 250.

---

Missed positionals are less harsh on us now, correct positional on uncombo'd CT does 10 less (wat).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

Missed positionals are less harsh on us now, correct positional on uncombo'd CT does 10 less (wat).

---

This doesn't feel like a buff for normal content where positionals are easy to land.. But we'll see how much a difference it makes in stuff like O1S and O2S (my only savage experience this expac) since there's a lot time being forced to miss positionals.

In all fights with the exception of NEO you lose a tonne of positionals, luck dependant. This is about a 1-2% dps increase in every fight depending on the fight ofc.

So instead of chomping about 13% out of our GCDs it chomps about 6% out (when hitting from the front). Bear in mind GCDs are ~60% of total ideal DPS, so let's say you randomly miss about one in four positionals, that comes out to (40+60·(1-0.06/4))/(40+60·(1-0.13/4))=1.0107 improvement over patch 4.05.

I don't know how many positionals people are actually missing (and of course SE was waiting on the numbers themselves), but if it's more often than that, 1%-2% sounds about right.

Is the tome weapon worth getting? I understand it's +1 damage and 16 more stength but dropping 263 DH for 268 SS feels like it's a loss to me.

It is difficult to say, because I don't really know what WD is worth at level 70. If it is a (WD+33) factor like one might extrapolate from the HW formula, then for a Genta goon it could be like:

(132·2316x·1.04525·1.044·1.052509458)÷(131·2300x·1.062·1.044·1.038516032)=1.01209625045

This is underwhelming compared to what weapon upgrading used to be, but a solid gain. And you do need it for the upgraded version.

EDIT: It probably is WD+33 on DRG, btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sparhwk

Is the tome weapon worth getting? I understand it's +1 damage and 16 more stength but dropping 263 DH for 268 SS feels like it's a loss to me.

---

+1 weapon damage 16 more strength is a lot, which is bigger than the difference between substats.

The main problem with SS is you can take another substat for a damage benefit without potentially limiting double weaving and increasing dot clipping.

Would the pentamelded chest with DH on it outweigh the omega nm piece? If so is it worth the increase?

If that pentameld involves at least three G6 Heaven's Eyes, yes. But to evaluate its "worth" do understand like 1 STR is ~1.8 DPS at this tier of gear. Also, I'm thinking to downgrade secondaries slightly after testing STR out a bit.

I just don't want to invest if the dps increase is minimal. My static is on OS4 so trying to pump out as much dps as possible

What about refreshing Heavy Trust after every Chaos ---> wheeling ---> Fang Combo instead of every Full --> fang ---> wheeling combo?
Sure you will refresh it early one time but after that it lines up fine and saves you a shitload of movement.

Today's update is very minor, but for those of you still dependent on stat weights, it should still be more accurate than the ones I had there previously. Basically, WD is now accounted for (intercept +33), STR was adjusted (intercept -25 ish), auto-attacks are modeled (overly simplistically as 110p/3s; when they buffed DET in 4.0, it seems they made it affect weaponskills and autos equally or thereabouts), and I did a thing with abilities that kinda reflect which ones get buffed and which don't. The remaining loose end is the buff to DoTs from SS, but there isn't a reasonable reason to believe it's different from what it does to autos (the hypothesis that it roughly reflects what SS does for GCDs seems to be borne out).

If my DPS estimates end up being accurate to my satisfaction, then that calculator can go public pretty soon; otherwise, back to the lab again, eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Do we have a definite Best-in-Slot yet?
I've been clearing O1S - O3S with my static consistently and am wondering which Gear to buy next with Tomestones to contribute to a proper set later on.
On the front page of this thread I've seen the Set for Savage Gear but was still curious to know if there are alternatives or changes.

Also compared to the opener stated in this Guide the one below fits personally better for me, but I'd like to know everyone else's opinion as to what they are using.
For me at least my dps improved using the opener below instead of the one in this guide. (Or maybe I just got better and was just bad before lol.)

The original opener:
http://ffxivrotations.com/xgw

My slightly modified opener:
http://ffxivrotations.com/y9l

The opener came from this Video, I only modified it a bit to make it easier to use for myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvkj...nnel=FFXIVMomo

---

I'm closing in on a BiS solution. Progress has been slow on all fronts because I'm trying to polish chapters 3 and 4 as best I can.*

One thing I can say so far is that if you like that set and are going to do it anyway, one of the G6 Savage Aims should be replaced with G6 Heaven's Eye because of tiering.

On recent opener discussions: I stand by the long-running assertion that which opener you use is not earth-shatteringly important, it is more important that the job gets done than how you do it. I think it's important to avoid getting too caught up in that kind of bikeshedding. I mean, I've had a time--this was in ARR--where I would mathematically prove an opener categorically superior for someone and then several times over the next few months I'd see the same guy spread the misinformation I directly debunked. Why even bother, right?

But taking things personally aside (;)), I haven't seen a single convincing reason to change the one in the OP after moving BfB despite some... unsubstantiated criticisms... I've seen elsewhere in the past two weeks. In that YT comment, Momo raises points about raid buffs, which I don't knock (raid damage buffs can change minor facts that don't hold solo, sure), but at the same time contains misstatements about other effects which I suspect stems from some overly broad assumptions--I don't wish to confront that, btw, I want to clarify it with good theory when Ch3/4 are ready. Apparently I may need to add some clarifications about cooldowns in the meantime, but a rewrite of Ch1 (which I hope comes eventually) is not the highest-priority item on my plate.

More to the point: a lot of this business about putting Spineshatter after Dragonfire seems to me a solution to a non-problem. I admit I am splitting hairs by my own standards, but there is potential loss and no real gain here unless Dragonfire that much sooner presents a gap-closing opportunity. Now, some of it was borne of using a different BfB timing, but I don't see people doing much of that anymore.

Anyhow if I'm gonna say BiS has low SS,** then I can't go around recommending an opener that could be potentially really bad at low SS. That would be unconscionable! But basically, I shouldn't be saying "y'all should hold a cooldown" unless you really have to.*** Low uptime is prima facie not a good approach to DPS; anything leading to that is specifically the attitude I would like to not cultivate.

When you kinda-sorta know what you are doing, that is the time to start fancier tricks, no sooner. No later, either, mind you.

Oh, there is one important reason I won't change it to a Spineshatter Dive-first opener unless job adjustments change things, and it is very subtle: about a 1/3 chance of substantial loss of potency at certain inconvenient timestamps is the obvious risk that people have made their peace with, but I do anticipate a cyclical 30 potency / 240s difference due to one extra Mirage Dive under BfB.

* In part, I realized I couldn't really live with it if I didn't have a reasonably complete test of character lock timings.

** Unlike many "experts" past and present I have never considered high SS a requirement and still don't.

*** I'm not saying it's never beneficial, but even when people talk about getting a 20s buff over 9 GCDs they never seem to consider more than the GCDs themselves. Autos, other players' damage, what stats you have to give up for SS, and the sync of the oGCD cycle are possible sacrifices.

I dislike people taking Momos word for gospel. Yes his results are good but don't forget most of the disparity of 'skill' in this game can be attributed to circumstance (i.e gear and team comp along with specific cards). Momo has always raided with a very good comp for DRG and also runs fights very often to get speedkills. He also had the 345 spear from week 1 and is also +330.

Most of the gear seems pretty straight forward as to what's BiS. We have a lot of crit/direct hit pieces out there. I've seen the savage pants over the lost allagan ones which baffle me unless the SS is a must. I'm using the omega chest till I beat OS4(currently on Neo). Left side tome piece for me are the head and legs, right side are choke, bracelet and ring

From my experience is that openers change slightly with each fight in savage. Some times its Jump first, sometimes its SSD first. It all depends on the fight, when the boss goes invulnerable, what aoes are used when.
i.e. in Neo I like using jump first, since you can get a 2nd jump in before neo goes into his first alpha cross. However in O3S, I like SSD first because if you use jump first may have to hold your 2nd jump as she's doing her first spellblade holy, so you don't get animation locked in a potential blizzard aoe.

TLDR; Basically, everyone is right. Sunny's opener is great, but tweaking may be appropriate depending on fight.

I love your guide, Sunny.

One thing of note is due to the dragoon's fixed rotation, the job is more accessible to us players than it would appear at first glance. The abilities allow the player to break things down to easy to follow blocks. So this is truly a case where the job is more complicated on paper than in play. At least, it's been that way up to level 60.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tetsuya

Nah

---

Nah, it was completely in general. A lot of the talk in the balance discord and forums is based around following Momo. If it were just you I would have quoted you in and replied directly to what exactly I disagree with. You bringing it up and Sunny replying making it the relevant topic is why I decided to comment on it.

When it comes to DPS improvements, unless your opener was absolutely abysmal you most likely will not see a difference. Yeah, the GCD line up and shit is important but honestly 1 single 'extra' crit can negate the potential potency difference or potential DPS increase from the line up etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Snip

---

I find that jumping first is more useful in every fight apart from o1s. For o2s it is far less risky when your 2nd jump comes up. If you use jump first then your 2nd jump comes up like 6 seconds before the antilights go off, plenty of time to move into the middle. On the other hand if you use it 2nd, you will be cutting it extremely close and if the boss isn't actually in the middle, Jump will attempt to place you on its outer hitbox which WILL place you into the antilight guaranteeing your death (this has literally killed me on o2s and on o3s 'the game' when the boss is outside the dps panels, half a second of animation lock that puts you in the wrong place will fuck you).

In o3s if you use jump first, it will be used before the spellblade magic cast bar finishes, meaning you don't have to pussy foot around and have no chance of eating blizzard or thunder.

In exfaust blizzard 3 aoe comes the exact same time you use your 2nd jump after the 1st mirage dive, and if its jump you will die (this depends on how early you hit the boss, if you effectively pulled with HT this is less of a problem) but if it is spine shatter it will be close. In this case it doesn't actually matter as you wont get to the 60 second threshold anyway so if you wanna hold them for longer, its fine but it wont line up with raid buffs.

And as you said in NEO, jumping first makes it far less precarious to do it during the white screen of GC alpha (it is also important to note if you use GSK before chaos thrust if you don't have a pot or something, you can get one off comfortably before GC alpha, and instead of doing it late during the line up or skipping it completely to line up with the next trick if you have a NIN, you get it back the same time you would have used it if you held it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

In o3s if you use jump first, it will be used before the spellblade magic cast bar finishes, meaning you don't have to pussy foot around and have no chance of eating blizzard or thunder.

---

Very true, but if you are the one who gets tethered and stunned in the mechanic before you will die to a blizzard with jump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz

Most of the gear seems pretty straight forward as to what's BiS. We have a lot of crit/direct hit pieces out there. I've seen the savage pants over the lost allagan ones which baffle me unless the SS is a must. I'm using the omega chest till I beat OS4(currently on Neo). Left side tome piece for me are the head and legs, right side are choke, bracelet and ring

---

Some people will always think SS is that important. Let them believe that; they're not wrong, it's actually quite subjective--in the sense of "it is not the same for everyone", not "it is an opinion". If you cannot pull off something important without it (e.g. BotD maintenance, extra Jump), then it is important.

A12S was the "oh no" moment for me, had poor framerate (literally can't register the inputs quickly enough) + low SS + SCH switched to Eos to laugh at the raidbusters, so I had the tiniest margin on BotD usually... but I also raided with a MNK, so I was always gonna be one of the upstairs DPS, and if that's the case you can kiss a high Logs percentile goodbye. Decided not to worry about it, at that point I knew I didn't want to stick around longer than it'd take my group to try out a replacement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

From my experience is that openers change slightly with each fight in savage. Some times its Jump first, sometimes its SSD first. It all depends on the fight, when the boss goes invulnerable, what aoes are used when.
i.e. in Neo I like using jump first, since you can get a 2nd jump in before neo goes into his first alpha cross. However in O3S, I like SSD first because if you use jump first may have to hold your 2nd jump as she's doing her first spellblade holy, so you don't get animation locked in a potential blizzard aoe.

TLDR; Basically, everyone is right. Sunny's opener is great, but tweaking may be appropriate depending on fight.

---

Don't get me wrong, I am not calling diss on anyone or their golden baby opener. Adaptability is so important, even if your raid strategy is inflexible. And this year I will be quite dependent on others for the deets on serious raids. Now, I never really ended up adjusting openers for Alex (except on really bad days with Quickthinx, and Living Liquid / Manipulator tended to force issues), but I was always considering it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

I love your guide, Sunny.

One thing of note is due to the dragoon's fixed rotation, the job is more accessible to us players than it would appear at first glance. The abilities allow the player to break things down to easy to follow blocks. So this is truly a case where the job is more complicated on paper than in play. At least, it's been that way up to level 60.

---

I'm glad you like it. I hope I can make it much better, of course.

You've got it right on the nose. DRG actions are heavily biased towards immediate rewards, which was SE's old justification for our lower damage. Geirskogul in HW broke this trend a little. Mirage Dive feels a little off, but it's a lot like Power Surge got inverted, so no biggie; at this point, career DRGs are used to a little bit of "no seriously don't mess this up" with jumps no matter whether we care for that aspect.

It's the Lv70 Nastrond system that breaks this trend harshly. It does too much damage to ignore, but I'd just as soon SE found a more satisfying way to accomplish whatever they were hoping to accomplish with it, which I cannot figure out for the life of me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tetsuya

After some dummy testing and getting used to two sort of different rotations the dps result was almost the same, the only difference that I've noticed is really that the rotation from here doesn't buff the 2nd CT by the Potion.

---

It wasn't the easiest call to make. Basically what tipped the scales is that infusions aren't very bursty (HQ infusion = +137 STR -> 6.25% buff at i309, 5.35% at i340). After tallying up the damage for two rotations, I found it was a minor improvement to put the pot early because of the excellent gains on Lance Mastery. The game also seems to be a little reluctant giving you a reliably-timed first oGCD directly after engaging (I had previously assumed my fingers were just flubbing it), so a single-weave there at a weak part of the rotation suits me just fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz

Most of the gear seems pretty straight forward as to what's BiS. We have a lot of crit/direct hit pieces out there. I've seen the savage pants over the lost allagan ones which baffle me unless the SS is a must. I'm using the omega chest till I beat OS4(currently on Neo). Left side tome piece for me are the head and legs, right side are choke, bracelet and ring

---

Your comment is what baffles me. As bad as SS is, it's still an upgrade from the i310 or i320 crafted pants, so if you get lucky and have it dropped from o3s, then you should definitely use it and spend your creation tomes on other i310/i320 pieces.

I never said it isn't an upgrade over a lower ill piece, I've just seen it over the lost allagan pants when it would seem they are the better choice

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingSlayer

Very true, but if you are the one who gets tethered and stunned in the mechanic before you will die to a blizzard with jump

---

That.... shouldn't be the case. oGCD timings aren't effected so you will still jump at the same time, just after a different global cooldown.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiquidSwordz

I've just seen it over the lost allagan pants when it would seem they are the better choice

---

I've been doing testing of Skill Speed in relation to our abilities lining up. Overall I've got to say around 700-1000 feels pretty great (with 300 feeling slow and 1400 being fun but hard to double weave) but the kicker is of course the loss of stats in other areas for taking it. Honestly, until I can get my hands on a full set of both Allagan and Genji to really test out the different builds it's hard to say how much exactly we'll really need but I can say that we do need some. Which seeing as we have to take 117 from the Allagan ring, means that the additional 253 from the Genji legs places us at 734 SS which I think is a pretty nice place for us to be. By using the pants and not other items to get the SS we only lose out on DET, which again isn't too bad at all when you consider that it's 3500 Crit and DH combined that we're really aiming for.

Hm, I've been testing at 364 SS now and then; didn't detect any serious problems. It may be difficult for some, and may require adjusted expectations, and in the end it may be provably suboptimal if and when someone can outline it in great detail. Though, it is the kind of thing people want the heavy-duty simulators for in other games.

But I don't anticipate any disasters that would put it in the "need" category. If anything, I think it fixes more tough knots than it creates. For instance, the ol' Jump + Life Surge collision doesn't turn up at the normal place. The obvious major drawback is BotD maintenance in low-uptime situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

Sunny I would like to mention that using if you are using an Infusion pot, it may be more beneficial to use that after impulse drive as with lower skill speed (what we are aiming for) using BfB and DS may cause the earlier one or even both to fall off before the lance mastery strike which now is stronger but even before. This also means that DS comes up just before a lance mastery and BfB should miss chaos thrust and come under lance mastery also.

---

i usually do at 3s before the pull
(BotD) Elusive Jump
(Heavy Thrust) Battle Litany
(Impulse Drive) Infusion of Strength
(Disembowel) Blood for blood + Dragon Sight
(Chaos Thrust) Jump
(Wheeling Thrust) Mirage Dive
(Fang and Claw) Dragonfire Dive
(True Thrust) Spineshatter Dive
(Vorpal Thrust) Geirskogul + Life Surge
(Full Thrust) Mirage Dive
(Fang and Claw)
(Wheeling Thrust)
works out pretty well and you can usually squeeze in another Heavy thrust before B4B and dragon sight wear off

Just got the O3S pants and i wonder if it's better than the i320 crafted pants?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teriel

i usually do at 3s before the pull
(BotD) Elusive Jump
(Heavy Thrust) Battle Litany
(Impulse Drive) Infusion of Strength
(Disembowel) Blood for blood + Dragon Sight
(Chaos Thrust) Jump
(Wheeling Thrust) Mirage Dive
(Fang and Claw) Dragonfire Dive
(True Thrust) Spineshatter Dive
(Vorpal Thrust) Geirskogul + Life Surge
(Full Thrust) Mirage Dive
(Fang and Claw)
(Wheeling Thrust)
works out pretty well and you can usually squeeze in another Heavy thrust before B4B and dragon sight wear off

---

Not sure what my problem is, but when I do this, B4B is not up for when I get LoTD up, and I only get 1 Natrond under B4B when I thought we should be able to get at least 2 Nastrond under B4B, unless the first is the exception?

(I apologize for some ongoing major delays, I've been a little distracted, shall we say)

To get Geirskogul+2x Nastrond under BfB in your first LotD window, while it is not absolutely imperative, I strongly recommend making BfB at least 2 GCDs before Jump in your opener for the sake of cutting yourself some slack. The logic goes something like:

BfB at X seconds, Jump at Y (Y = X + y, y > 2.3), MD, SSD at Z (Z = Y + z, z > 4.6), MD, Jump at Y+~30, MD, Jump at Y+~60, MD [LotD ready], SSD at Z+~60, BfB at X+~80, Geir, Nas/MD

Because Mirage Dive lasts 15 seconds from the activation of your Jump, you can prove from this sequence that you ought to lose the 5th MD if it happens at the same time as the 2nd BfB, since they can't both be done at the exact same time (and ideally you'd also want it after Geirskogul so it contributes to the next LotD):
Z+60+15 > X+80
Z > X+5
X+min(y)+min(z) = X+2.3+4.6 = X+6.9

So 6.9-5 = 1.9s of slack with a 2.3s GCD. That really isn't ideal, since there's a Geirskogul to smash somewhere in there and possibly a desire to wait on BotD gauge to build. This is the (formalized) reasoning behind why I modified the sample opener to put BfB before Disembowel back in July.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SunnyHirose

For a savage-clearing raider who can expect to obtain all the i340 gear in this gear set, I believe your stat weights are or are close to:
19.25 Physical Damage
1.000 Strength
0.166 Critical Hit
0.149 Direct Hit
0.145 Determination
0.120 Skill Speed

For a tomestone-only dragoon who will only be getting to i340 sometime in patch 4.1, this is what you can look forward to. Your weights at i340 are rather different:
19.28 Physical Damage
1.000 Strength
0.128 Critical Hit
0.147 Direct Hit
0.142 Determination
0.126 Skill Speed

---

Could you elaborate a bit on what the threshold is where you start to favor crit over det?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaozK

Could you elaborate a bit on what the threshold is where you start to favor crit over det?

---

Verily, I do nothing of the sort! What I do is use estimations of DPS to determine what the changes in DPS ought to be per stat point (relative to that gearset), then use that to maximize weights into a new gearset, and repeat over and over until I'm not getting new results. Then I settle on the best one I found thus far. So for true BiS, that especially means redoing melds to give all candidates for "best stat" a fair shot, whereas for the tome-only set, you're stuck with whatever ballpark it's in.

Weights are always relative to a gearset, so basically I don't look at thresholds and I don't come up with half-baked rules of thumb as to when one is better or whatever. Ever since the page system got added I have simply assumed you know what gear you will get in the end and should meld towards that.

Alas, it gets worse than that. Because the reward from stats has rounding stuff going on, you do not get rewarded for every single point of a stat you put in. That means maximizing weights does not guarantee you find the best result, although you can expect to get close; e.g. even when CH>DH by weight, it is often the case that +40 DH > +40 CH, and very very often +12 DH > +12 CH. There is no good way to tell that just by looking.

This is the problem I'm looking to solve. I think I've devised a computationally sane way around it; only building it and testing the program can prove it, though.

Hey fellow Dragoons,

After reading this thread since SB, I've decided to make a post to see if I can find some opinions. I live far away from the datacenter and have a high latency (~250ms). Double weave is impossible without clipping GCD so I'm working on an opener with a minimum of double weave.

I came with this first : http://ffxivrotations.com/13h0
Not that bad but the 2nd 5th combo is not buffed by DS (buff falling off). No potion cause finding a slot for it will force double weave.

I came with a 2nd opener: http://ffxivrotations.com/13h3
The 2nd 5th combo is buffed by DS and I can even fit a potion but I'm worried with the way Jump and Spineshatter are delayed.

I have to sacrifice something to get the 2nd 5th combo buffed but is it worth it ?
I need opinions of DRG with maybe a better analysis and vision of the problem.

Sincerly, a DRG that doesn't want to drop the spear

As a DRG with having 2.48 GCD, I can tell you it feels too slow. I have the savage chest, allagan legs and genji spear. I believe the savage pants are a must with the SS while still being able to double weave.

As for an opener, this is what I find to be the best without delaying mirage dive...


http://ffxivrotations.com/148w