Lazy Healers In Parties of Eight

All healers are now DPS with a utility of healing. The days of mostly healing ended in the 2.x series and with the 3.x series onward, healers are now expected to dps. Yes, even by the devs. This is because they made it easier to dps by removing Cleric stance and all of the healer npcs are shown doing dps. Even the big healer, the leader of Gridania, is seen using dps only and not healing in the final story dungeon. I suspect the devs shifted healers into a dps job rather than pure healing because there were very few people choosing healer. Lots choose dps but few healer or tanks, so their solution is to make both healers and tanks dps jobs that have a utility of healing or tanking.

It sad for those who want the pure jobs but those days are gone and won’t come back, adapt and get your numbers up or bow out of the role.

For those who think I’m being harsh, I loved pure healing and dislike doing dps on healer but I have accepted the change in game design and moved on from healing.

I don't know, I've rarely died in 8-mans so I guess I've not run into any lazy healers. I do notice a tendency for high-dps healers to forget that Esuna existed, though...in 8 mans and in 4 mans. I sometimes feel this unspoken pressure of "you should've avoided that attack so it's your fault your casts will be canceled randomly for the next 30 seconds" while the healer (or both healers) keep on dealing their oh-so-important-mega-dps.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

All healers are now DPS with a utility of healing... This is because they made it easier to dps by removing Cleric stance and all of the healer npcs are shown doing dps.
... adapt and get your numbers up or bow out of the role.
For those who think I’m being harsh, I loved pure healing and dislike doing dps on healer but I have accepted the change in game design and moved on from healing.

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I'm not sure this is the reason. I think it is much more based on the population of this game growing and more people realizing how much time healers actually have to DPS. In 2.X, SCH had something like 5 dots and did 80 percent of a DPS's damage. Also, Eos was stronger back then. Now, healers should generally do about as much combined damage as your lowest dps, but that's just for progression. If anything, there was more incentive to dps as a healer before because you could do relatively higher dps.

Just last week, I pugged O3S (V3S) and the WHM I ran with had something like 25% activity on the boss and a couple hundred dps(according to logs). That's basically pushing Aero once per minute with a few stones thrown in. If you aren't progressing at the top end, you can get away with doing very little dps as a healer, so this idea that a "pure" healer is dead, I don't really buy it.

I have rarely seen lazy healers that do NOTHING. Usually I'm the one mega healing and the other one dpsing, which I don't mind I love healing, and usually other healer jumps to help during those critical moments or if S hits the fan. I haven't run into horrible co-healers since the early ARR days or total newb to the content. I hope there's not that many healers doing nothing, but idk how you can get away with it while doing something remotely relevant.

Since the introduction of Red Mage healers in general have been lazy (not all, but many)
I hear the ai of the squad healer is good and probably better then most healers in df, lol

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

It can be difficult to accurately assess whether a healer in 8-man content is being lazy or not. Sometimes it's clear, but many times they simply don't "top people off" as quickly as someone else might. I know personally I won't cast Cure if some damage-dealer gets knocked down to half life, unless I know a big AoE is coming. I'll toss off a Regen and leave it at that. To another healer, however, this might look as if I'm ignoring them.

I'm not arguing with your overall point, simply suggesting that you might be more reactive than the average healer. Whether this is good or bad is up for debate, though it's far from clear-cut (I'd actually argue that being over-reactive is just as harmful as being under-reactive).

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I have to agree with this. Although many people may not like it, I don't keep people topped off usually. If you have more than half health, you'll be ok unless a big aoe is coming (or if you're terrible and stand in every easily avoidable aoe possible). Sitting there spamming heals isn't actually that helpful, honestly. You're better off contributing to DPS until people are actually below half-health, maybe pop a regen or something and carry on. But I probably look lazy to people when I'm paired with another healer who likes to keep everyone at 100% health all the time.

This is how I was taught to play. I used to play with a pretty "hardcore" group. Not saying I'm fantastic myself but I'm always willing to learn and take advice and my group liked that about me. One of the things I was taught was that you don't need to waste mana overhealing and people don't need to be at 100% health all the time. Contribute to DPS when you can.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

This was how I was taught to play. I used to play with a pretty "hardcore" group. Not saying I'm fantastic myself but I'm always willing to learn and take advice and my group liked that about me. One of the things I was taught was that you don't need to waste mana overhealing and people don't need to be at 100% health all the time. Contribute to DPS when you can.

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Regen, Medica2, Roused WD, and Aspected Helios/Benefic (Diurnal) are amazingly efficient and are absolutely gutted by over-zealous healers... I feel your pain.

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Originally Posted by Exodyce

I'm not sure this is the reason. I think it is much more based on the population of this game growing and more people realizing how much time healers actually have to DPS. In 2.X, SCH had something like 5 dots and did 80 percent of a DPS's damage. Also, Eos was stronger back then. Now, healers should generally do about as much combined damage as your lowest dps, but that's just for progression. If anything, there was more incentive to dps as a healer before because you could do relatively higher dps.

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I have to agree here too; I think the change to cleric stance was because healers were ALREADY expected to DPS and cleric stance made it difficult for most people. I believe SE dropped this mechanic in order to make the role a little less intimidating. I remember I used to get a lot of praise for how I used to sit in cleric stance and be able to switch back and heal up the tank right before he would die. Especially during speed runs, like wanderer's palace. Being able to holy spam, switch back and cure (while managing your mana) was difficult but highly praised and sought after from white mages. Even though I found it fun in a way, I have to admit cleric stance was also stressful. If you accidentally hit it twice....oh man.

And I also agree, as a white mage regen + medica 2 (and cure 3 when stacking) are great. They allow you to keep everyone healthy while freeing you up to do more DPS. Highly efficient. :D

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Originally Posted by Mikki

And I also agree, as a white mage regen + medica 2 (and cure 3 when stacking) are great. They allow you to keep everyone healthy while freeing you up to do more DPS. Highly efficient. :D

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Yet so many people say that using Medica 2 + Regen is a waste of MP(a recent post in the Tales from Duty Finder for example). Personally, when I play my WHM, I tend to throw those up and DPS until I know I need to heal the tank. Those two just help prolong that DPS time.


Edit: Here is where that Tales from DF example starts:

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Originally Posted by Ganglyzilla

Why...

https://i.imgur.com/3z3sABg.jpg

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Yet so many people say that using Medica 2 + Regen is a waste of MP(a recent post in the Tales from Duty Finder for example). Personally, when I play my WHM, I tend to throw those up and DPS until I know I need to heal the tank. Those two just help prolong that DPS time.

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I don't think they're a waste of MP at all; they will continuously keep someone healed if they happen to take any more damage so you don't have to worry about them for awhile and it allows you to DPS more. I feel like spending a bit more mana is perfectly fine for the trade-off of doing more DPS. Especially since now, you have very little excuse for running out of mana as a whm. Assize, Lucid Dreaming, Thin Air.... plus any outside help, like manashift. Unless the DPS is very low from the ACTUAL DPS, making things take longer than necessary, I don't really have any issues with my MP. Heck, in 4-man dungeons I spam the hell out of holy (heh) and I still don't run out of MP.

edit: lol, well... with that example, I can see why they would say "why", depending on the context. Everyone is at full health, yet everyone has regen + medica 2 on them. If this was placed for no reason and no expected damage is incoming, then yeah. Why? But if people were at half health and are now topped BECAUSE of those things, then what are you whining about??? Although honestly I don't see a need to keep regen on anyone but the tank if I have medica 2 up. Or if a DPS is particularly hurt - but I don't generally put it on the entire party.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

Yet so many people say that using Medica 2 + Regen is a waste of MP(a recent post in the Tales from Duty Finder for example). Personally, when I play my WHM, I tend to throw those up and DPS until I know I need to heal the tank. Those two just help prolong that DPS time.


Edit: Here is where that Tales from DF example starts:

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Context for that picture is pretty important, though. It's Leviathan (presumably on hard and not extreme since DF). The presence of medica II there is fine...the presence of a regen on every person in the group is both time and mana inefficient.

In 4 mans, medica II is not a particularly mana efficient way to help keep the tank healed, but it's not strictly bad to do if the end goal is 'I can fit in extra DPS casts'. I find it less important with the removal of cleric stance, so I don't tend to do it anymore, but I used to and don't hate on those that do.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

snip.

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Great points. In 4 mans, I will use medica 2 any time the party takes a big hit or more unavoidable damage is incoming. It's a good way to keep things under wraps while freeing yourself to DPS or focus on only the tank if necessary. :) I wouldn't use regen on everyone in an 8 man. I might end up using it on almost everyone in a 4-man though (but not casting it one after another, just if it ends up that way since medica is usually better if everyone needs healing anyway).

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

If a person only heals and the tank dies from auto attack, that healer is bad. If all he does is healing hes very bad.

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This is a pretty good summary of some of my last dungeon runs, especially when the healer decides to still use 260 Shire gear in CASTRUM ALBANIA!

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

Context for that picture is pretty important, though. It's Leviathan (presumably on hard and not extreme since DF). The presence of medica II there is fine...the presence of a regen on every person in the group is both time and mana inefficient.

In 4 mans, medica II is not a particularly mana efficient way to help keep the tank healed, but it's not strictly bad to do if the end goal is 'I can fit in extra DPS casts'. I find it less important with the removal of cleric stance, so I don't tend to do it anymore, but I used to and don't hate on those that do.

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I will concede that the Regen on top of the double Medica II is a bit excessive, and a waste of DPS time. But I(like Mikki said), will use Medica II on boss fights where AoE damage that is unavoidable is a regular occurrence. If not, then I will just throw a single regen on the tank and continue to DPS as normal, then throw whatever heals are needed.

I certainly enjoy it when I get a raise, but then proceed to get no heals for the next 10-15 seconds as both of the healers are just mindlessly spamming Glare, so I get immediately KO'd again by the next roomwide. Thanks a lot, you twits. Dunno why you even bothered with the raise.

People wanting to DPS but playing healer/tank to do it for the faster queues are one of the biggest plagues in this game, IMO.

Can you guys not stop replying to every thread that person necros? It's just obvious trolling by now because they don't even provide any meaningful discussion points.

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Can you guys not stop replying to every thread that person necros? It's just obvious trolling by now because they don't even provide any meaningful discussion points.

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Can you focus your ire on the person actually trying to disrupt the forum? (Plus, you replied to it too...)

I don't check every thread I'm about to post in to make sure it isn't a necropost. Sue me.

Plus the little anecdote about lazy healers I shared actually did happen just now to me today, so the subject was still fresh on my mind.

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Originally Posted by Ganglyzilla

Why...

https://i.imgur.com/3z3sABg.jpg

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https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1...965901~mv2.jpg

OVERHEAL RATE 400%
CONTRIBUTION TO PARTY 0%

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/1...965901~mv2.jpg

OVERHEAL RATE 400%
CONTRIBUTION TO PARTY 0%

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lol

necro thread

Lazy Healers are the result of everyone wanting to bandwagon on easy street, and since this game hardly punishes you for anything, this is the end result.

Enjoy and please look forward to it.