Studying The Blade- The SAM DPS Guide

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Originally Posted by Raelcun

Why does everyone seem to want to start with a shifu opener?

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Check out the videos on the front page.

There is a video that shows how they react with raid buffs going up as your rotation is performed. There IS a yukikaze opener that's shown. But... For one, you're likely to have a source of slashing debuff SOMEWHERE in your party (whether it be another SAM, NIN, or WAR), so applying it that early won't help you. In the unlikely case that you ARE the only source of slashing...https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...otation_guide/.

Check that out. CTRL+F: Igshar.

Unfortunately it seems they don't make an appearance on these forums often. I'm gonna shoot him a message one day soon here, see if he can't chime in on this thread to help with certain aspects I'm terrible at explaining, or showing work for.

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Originally Posted by Nominous

It gets weird if you have Sen in a dungeon before the boss is pulled. Once you get Hagakure, you can just use that to wipe your Sen clean before the pull. If you don't... It gets stickier.

Once your rotation starts, you want to avoid overlapping any Sen already gained. If you're doing your rotation perfectly, you never will. If you find yourself in an unfortunate situation where you don't have Hagakure, and you have no buffs (but you DO have the corresponding Sen), you have one of two options. Overlap Sen is option one. Or you do Hakaze>buff (insert Shifu or Jinpu)>Iaijutsu>ender. That way, you aren't overlapping Sen, because you're consuming it to cast an Iaijutsu first.

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Yeah, I didn't even think at first about using Hagakure between pulls to wipe Sen until a fellow FC member mentioned it. It's useful, especially on boss fights.

The start with shifu is simple because it gives you skill speed + auto attack speed.Were not for the auto attack buff, yukikaze + jinpu first would give you more damage until you get all 3 together (yuki + jinpu + shifu).

The hagakure is 20 free sen for a shinten or kaiten since you re gonna use meikyo afterwards and , as a dps, you want to burn all of your off cooldowns asap to make it reset timer so you can use again since the fight has time limit.

If you open with yukikaze + higanbana you wont have enough sen for Kaiten + higanbana, forcing you to use in midare (which gives you a HUGE increase in dots, especially crits).

What about open with Enpi when you are running toward the boss after the tank? That would give you extra Kenki?

So I was just in a Susano ex party with another SAM, and his damage came as a bit of shock to me. I'm used to doing around 4200DPS with little to no melds and full blue gear + Susano weapon, but he just blew everything out of the water, reaching 4800 overall and 5100+ on specific phases like the sword.

I was a bit shocked, so I examined him and his rotation. Turns out the only major differences were his melds (Tier 6 crit on pretty much everything, which is a lot), but mostly a difference in the rotation, when he used Hagakure... Well, pretty much never outside of his opener. Not on 1, 2 or 3 sens, as far as I could see he just kept the Sen for more Midare (He actually used Midare more often than Shinten, which was another thing that surprised me.).

Sooo... Am I wrong in still using Hagakure pretty much on CD (Except when I need to refresh higanbana) to spam Shinten at 35 Kenki? Or is it just the tier 6 melds justifying that huge difference?...

(I tried a SSS parse with both rotation, and came around 20secs left on Susano EX for both rotation, with 1 or 2sec left on the no-Hagakure rotation, so maybe the difference, if there is any, only appears on longer fights?)

Im sorry to bother people but i have a stupid question...

at the end of your rotation you write "So on and so forth" ummm... what does that mean? because when i start from the beginning some skills are still on cooldown.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...rect_hit_data/

Specifically going to quote this person

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Direct hit is, based on these numbers, ROUGHLY 150 points to 1% damage increase. Crit, bases on another post is ROUGHLY 166 points to 1% damage. Determination, again from here, is roughly 170-190 points per 1% damage.

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And also this person

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They're really close in the current stat ranges, but direct hit is better until you can get 2722 crit.

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So it seems for SAM, Hit > Crit > Det/SkS is the stat priority for now.

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Originally Posted by Jarinolde

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...rect_hit_data/

Specifically going to quote this person



And also this person



So it seems for SAM, Hit > Crit > Det/SkS is the stat priority for now.

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Yo thanks. I was checkin' this earlier. Updated the front page, quoting you for reference! Appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Neri

What about open with Enpi when you are running toward the boss after the tank? That would give you extra Kenki?

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I generally do this as it allows me to pop higanbana sooner but I don't believe this counts as part of your opener.

Enpi in the opener is only as a safeguard against missing positionals. If you know you'll hit all of them in your opener on a boss, then there is no need to do Enpi.

EDIT: I took some time to redo melds on my gear, and with it calculated what I would reasonably get for max crit if I melded that over hit. It was roughly 1660. If we see a similar stat cap increase from HW (87% from i180 to i270) We can expect at the earliest to be able to hit 2722 crit during the 2nd raid tier, with full savage/upgraded tome gear with meld priority to crit over hit.

Also check this out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_40_chart/

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Also check this out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_40_chart/

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So according to that chart, since I have over 940 skillspeed I should use the 2 sen opener over the 1 sen opener? And use the 3 sen opener in specific short phases?

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Originally Posted by Leonus

Also check this out.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._for_40_chart/

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Just a quick note, he mentions 1 sen opener is worse if your SkS is >=940 and you have a SCH, or an AST giving you arrow, but I've had no runs that would give credence to such a claim. Also he notes that 3 sen opener is the best when a NIN is in the party, but this is flat out false. I believe for NIN, they themselves benefit best from TA happening at the 5th GCD, and the 1 sen opener is actually the best opener with a 5th GCD TA.

Also, from what I've been reading people have been pointing out that once you go over 940 SkS, the 3 Sen opener is the better choice regardless of phase. One arguing that there is a delay on the 2nd Hagakure which I found to be false since I have not encounter this delay. It always comes off CD at the right time before I finish the combo off getting another Sen thus preventing me overlapping the 3 Sens I already have. Though my ping is 130ms-140ms so this could only be on my end.

Edit: I parsed both openers multiple times at around ilvl314 with sks 941, I consistenly parsed better with the 3 Sen opener over the 1 Sen opener with the Susano dummy. Even despite clipping a little bit into the GCD with the double weaves

So, which Lakshmi accessories are you guys keeping and which are you replacing with the stuff from Omega?

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Originally Posted by Laur1x

So, which Lakshmi accessories are you guys keeping and which are you replacing with the stuff from Omega?

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Gonna keep the Lakshmi earrings for sure! Ala Mhigan Ring is gonna get replaced too, obviously. The other 3 accessories... well I want to say they're worth replacing too.

The left side is taking away so much Crit though... I hate it :(!

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Originally Posted by ItaruKarin

So I was just in a Susano ex party with another SAM, and his damage came as a bit of shock to me. I'm used to doing around 4200DPS with little to no melds and full blue gear + Susano weapon, but he just blew everything out of the water, reaching 4800 overall and 5100+ on specific phases like the sword.

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He made what i call the risky build. Instead of abusing Hagakure + 3 sen (which gives you more DPS overall simple because you do not have cast time using shinten later) he chose to bet for the crit setsugekka which, if crits, gives you more dmg than the shinten you would use by sacrificing all 3 sen for shintens.

I myself am considering to have 2 builds accordingly to my party composition, since brd and drg can give you lots of crit buffs now, it may be very viable to have a full crit build. I already tested full determination meld build and it works pretty well regardless your party composition.

This is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway: how often should you use Hagakure after the opener? Just whenever you have sen, it's off cooldown, and won't cap your kenki?

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Originally Posted by Daralii

This is a dumb question, but I'll ask it anyway: how often should you use Hagakure after the opener? Just whenever you have sen, it's off cooldown, and won't cap your kenki?

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You've got it, pretty much. You can hold on to Hagakure to consume 1-3 Sen, to varying amounts of success as well. All depending on the length of the fight, cage mechanics, add phases, and other oddities. Trying to put yourself in a hole of, "Only use it for x amount" might end up more detrimental in some cases, so keep a flexible mind about it.

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Originally Posted by DarioGlenn

The start with shifu is simple because it gives you skill speed + auto attack speed.Were not for the auto attack buff, yukikaze + jinpu first would give you more damage until you get all 3 together (yuki + jinpu + shifu).

The hagakure is 20 free sen for a shinten or kaiten since you re gonna use meikyo afterwards and , as a dps, you want to burn all of your off cooldowns asap to make it reset timer so you can use again since the fight has time limit.

If you open with yukikaze + higanbana you wont have enough sen for Kaiten + higanbana, forcing you to use in midare (which gives you a HUGE increase in dots, especially crits).

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Skill speed does not increase the amount of auto attacks you do anymore. It is only for gcd reduction.

I guess this is the only place to make this question, is there a way to buy again the starter gear for Samurai, the nameless set? I guess I deleted it by accident.

No way no how. Once it's gone it's gone for good until the Calamity Salvager is updated, or there's a crafting equivalent (which there is none of currently)

do we have knowledge of statweights for sam? i imagine they won't really do much with sks, but would benefit from either crit or direct hit. hard to tell which

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Originally Posted by Zahalith

do we have knowledge of statweights for sam? i imagine they won't really do much with sks, but would benefit from either crit or direct hit. hard to tell which

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Front page got updated with what the current idea is for those (I was wondering about this too and saw the edit).
"So it seems for SAM, Hit > Crit > Det/SkS is the stat priority for now."

IS there a general Samurai discord by the way?

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Originally Posted by Zahalith

do we have knowledge of statweights for sam? i imagine they won't really do much with sks, but would benefit from either crit or direct hit. hard to tell which

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Aside from the thread linked on the first page, there was this one that was made today: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...o_stat_values/

So I've just tried the omega dummy and I've gotten to around 3.9K as a Samurai. I'm ilevel 303. I've heard that the best was around 4.6K.

Does anyone have any advice on what I could be doing better? I normally don't care about DPS jobs that much. But this one is different.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

So I've just tried the omega dummy and I've gotten to around 3.9K as a Samurai. I'm ilevel 303. I've heard that the best was around 4.6K.

Does anyone have any advice on what I could be doing better? I normally don't care about DPS jobs that much. But this one is different.

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For one, you're looking at 4.5k if you're at item level 314 (gear does play a pretty decent role, especially the weapon). Two, different fights have different HP values as far as SSS goes. And the lower the HP, the quicker it's killed, the higher DPS you'll see. So perhaps Omega's values are a little higher than Susan's.

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Originally Posted by Nominous

For one, you're looking at 4.5k if you're at item level 314 (gear does play a pretty decent role, especially the weapon). Two, different fights have different HP values as far as SSS goes. And the lower the HP, the quicker it's killed, the higher DPS you'll see. So perhaps Omega's values are a little higher than Susan's.

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Oh I'm able to finish the omega dummy at i303. My best so far is finishing with 12 seconds on the clock.

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Originally Posted by Enjuden

Skill speed does not increase the amount of auto attacks you do anymore. It is only for gcd reduction.

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Indeed my friend, but Shifu increases your auto attack rate as well as your skill speed. The auto attack speed is not because the skill speed, but it gives you both separately ways.

Theoretically, how long of a GCD recast / skill speed amount should we aim for? From the new gearset we are looking at we can go as low as 600sks range, I'd like to believe it to be a DPS Loss instead

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Originally Posted by Greyfrost

Theoretically, how long of a GCD recast / skill speed amount should we aim for? From the new gearset we are looking at we can go as low as 600sks range, I'd like to believe it to be a DPS Loss instead

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I'd like to know the minimum SS needed as well. Going from 800-600 feels much slower and for wtv reasons doesn't feel like the tradeoff is worth.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

I'd like to know the minimum SS needed as well. Going from 800-600 feels much slower and for wtv reasons doesn't feel like the tradeoff is worth.

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Aye! I second the motion.

there is no "min" SS, 1 sen opener does not like SS and will break quickly with too much, and 3 sen is more forgiving with high amounts of SS, and unless you stack sksp as your build you should not be close to breaking it.

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Originally Posted by Adriosh

there is no "min" SS, 1 sen opener does not like SS and will break quickly with too much, and 3 sen is more forgiving with high amounts of SS, and unless you stack sksp as your build you should not be close to breaking it.

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According to Dervy, the 3 Sen breaks at around 1785 Sks which isn't really attainable.
The 1 Sen breaks over 940isb, I think.
As you said, there is no minimum.

We have Shifu, so I can't see it mattering much.

Also! I'll update the front page soon with the new thread showing stat importance and such. It's basically what we've said, in that you want to prioritize DH. Determination=Skillspeed until you hit about 1700 Crit at which point, Crit is better than both of them. Since we'll have the breakpoint for Crit over Det/SS with this gearset, you'll probably want to focus on just Crit/DH.

So i have a question, In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOUa3JgrNrE , This guy does Kaiten for Gekko and Kasha, Is that not worth more than Shinten? ( Sorry if this was asked already, i honestly rather ask myself than to bother reading all 12 pages) Isnt that 300 more damage for 5 less Kenki?

Well, Gekko is 400 potency so Kaiten is an extra 200 for 20 kenki. Shinten is 300 potency for 25 kenki. That puts Kaiten at 10 potency per kenki and Shinten at 12 so Shinten wins.

20 kenki for 200 potency. 25 kenki for 300 potency. You don't even need to be very good at math :P.

Kenki* but thanks for Feedback