GC items Fail = SE Fail

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

yes something will always be better. the problem is only a select group of people can even get it. if it was a NM drop or something crafted atleast then it would be fair. this is unbalanced.

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so when they put the best shield in your guild in the future, will this be ok?

cuz something tells me you wont say a damn thing when that happens

this isnt about fair, its about you

SE said they would balance all the items out in the GC's just got to wait, maybe in the next update you're GC will get it's version of the shiled or what ever, there really is no need to lose the head like. stay cam this isnt WoW it's FFXIV!

I am calm. I can be upset over something and voice my opinion. And no you are right, if the shield was in my GC I would not be here, but then someone else would be here posting what I am posting. The fact of the matter is there are currently 2 sides to the debate.

1: GC's are unbalanced

2: just wait SE will fix it

the problem is we shouldnt have to wait for SE to fix it. They should not break things in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

Which is exactly what you still do, you choose the GC you want to choose given what they stand for -- Even with certain gear being in certain places there's still zero benefit over one another.

Are you getting 2,000 seals per quest joining Twin Adder instead of Immortal Flames?

That's what you call an advantage given design -- Items that will more than likely be obsoleted in 2 months isn't an advantage.

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The whole point of an RPG is character progression. That is what it is at its core. With MMOs character progression comes through patches. These patches normally involve adding gear, abilities, and level cap increases that allow your character to progress further in the game. For the next 2 months at bare minimum there are items that are best or near best in slot that are unobtainable by a large number of people, not because they aren't willing to put forth the effort, but because they joined the grand company they wanted and not the one that got the item they wanted. 2-3 months ago I was spamming dzhamel darkhold on a near constant basis on my archer doing 1000 damage per arrow with multishot. Remember when Darkhold and Archer were relevant? Yeah it was 2-3 months ago. If you are under the mentality that "it doesn't matter it will be obsolete eventually anyways" is completely irrelevant to an argument when you are talking about an MMO because it simply shows that the person saying it has no business playing an MMO in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Req

The whole point of an RPG is character progression. That is what it is at its core. With MMOs character progression comes through patches. These patches normally involve adding gear, abilities, and level cap increases that allow your character to progress further in the game. For the next 2 months at bare minimum there are items that are best or near best in slot that are unobtainable by a large number of people, not because they aren't willing to put forth the effort, but because they joined the grand company they wanted and not the one that got the item they wanted. 2-3 months ago I was spamming dzhamel darkhold on a near constant basis on my archer doing 1000 damage per arrow with multishot. Remember when Darkhold and Archer were relevant? Yeah it was 2-3 months ago. If you are under the mentality that "it doesn't matter it will be obsolete eventually anyways" is completely irrelevant to an argument when you are talking about an MMO because it simply shows that the person saying it has no business playing an MMO in the first place.

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+1

/123456789

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Originally Posted by Req

The whole point of an RPG is character progression. That is what it is at its core. With MMOs character progression comes through patches. These patches normally involve adding gear, abilities, and level cap increases that allow your character to progress further in the game. For the next 2 months at bare minimum there are items that are best or near best in slot that are unobtainable by a large number of people, not because they aren't willing to put forth the effort, but because they joined the grand company they wanted and not the one that got the item they wanted. 2-3 months ago I was spamming dzhamel darkhold on a near constant basis on my archer doing 1000 damage per arrow with multishot. Remember when Darkhold and Archer were relevant? Yeah it was 2-3 months ago. If you are under the mentality that "it doesn't matter it will be obsolete eventually anyways" is completely irrelevant to an argument when you are talking about an MMO because it simply shows that the person saying it has no business playing an MMO in the first place.

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you think its relevant now

but what happens when what company has the best gear changes next patch
then the patch after
and so on and so forth

its an endless cycle, each guild can NOT have the same exact gear or else you have no incentive to choose one over the other


so this patch lets say uldah has the shield thats best
next patch its grid
then its uldah again
then limsa

and so on, its not unfair to any 1 group in specific, its just that during any specific timeframe the best item for each slot will be obtainable from somewhere different

everyone will have their best in slots during those times obtainable and during other times itl be another countries turn

I think some players are just finding every possible reason to say this game is flawed. Why? Maybe because it helps convincing them they shouldn't pay for this game yet, maybe it also supports the opinion uninformed persons have about FFXIV (so they don't feel rejected), maybe because they are egotistical and only think about their own character (in world shaped by many). Or, simply because they don't understand the direction developers are going with the game and can only compare it with how they want their character to develop.
Regardless, it would be great if we could all (myself included) open our eyes to the big picture of FFXIV and question honestly when we don't understand the direction the game is going.

Getting butthurt over another GC getting gear that is likely only slightly better is unbelievably lame. It's only your preference that each GC always has perfectly even gear, I'm sure many others feel differently as do I.

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Originally Posted by Req

If you are under the mentality that "it doesn't matter it will be obsolete eventually anyways" is completely irrelevant to an argument when you are talking about an MMO because it simply shows that the person saying it has no business playing an MMO in the first place.

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..Which is exactly what most modern MMOs have been practicing for the past few years. There's still no advantage unless you can prove that Immortal Flames for example gives you complete game changing advantage over Maelstrom for example -- I want to see a quest from Immortal flames that will progress your character further than if you join Maelstrom, I also want to see how joining Maelstrom or Twin Adder will progress you slower.

That's unbalance. Items that will be obsoleted isn't unbalancing anything.

ya know, i do understand that the best gear is not needed to complete the current content. i can see where the op is coming from though. the goal of each character on the game is to get the best possible item in every spot they can. sure i don't need that felt robe(red) +3 with 5 healing hands equipped on it, but that won't stop me from trying to get it.

i don't think the issue is that the item is in another city. the problem is they are trying to get the best gear for the gear setup and tanking style he prefers to use and due to being part of one company instead of another it is impossible. in every mmo i have touched people are always trying to get the best gear. if they weren't then items like relics would have never had a reason to be put in game. they were by far the best items, but they took a long time to get. they were hard to get, but with the companies those certain items are impossible.

did the op go too far on his rant? yes, because we know each company will get stuff in the future. the thing is the future could be after this patch or it could be a year down the road and nobody knows which.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you think its relevant now

but what happens when what company has the best gear changes next patch
then the patch after
and so on and so forth

its an endless cycle, each guild can NOT have the same exact gear or else you have no incentive to choose one over the other


so this patch lets say uldah has the shield thats best
next patch its grid
then its uldah again
then limsa

and so on, its not unfair to any 1 group in specific, its just that during any specific timeframe the best item for each slot will be obtainable from somewhere different

everyone will have their best in slots during those times obtainable and during other times itl be another countries turn

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Remember the good old days...when the best gear in the game was raid gear...and everyone was able to get it...no one was left out...yah....just like every other MMO on the market...SE has backwards fundamentals on core game design

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Remember the good old days...when the best gear in the game was raid gear...and everyone was able to get it...no one was left out...yah....just like every other MMO on the market...SE has backwards fundamentals on core game design

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i actually like the way they do GC gear cause i hate it when everyone looks the same.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Remember the good old days...when the best gear in the game was raid gear...and everyone was able to get it...no one was left out...yah....just like every other MMO on the market...SE has backwards fundamentals on core game design

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whenever a game releases an aspect of the game that makes you choose you can run into these issues though

look at other games where you have to choose "light vs dark" or "villian vs hero" or "hoard vs alliance"
one side will always have some advantage in some areas while the other has it in others
and the balance will tip back and forth depending on the day of the week and what is released

in the end, again, its a game and some people take that 1 point of stat someone else may be able to get over them WAY WAY too seriously the way you are doing right now

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

ya know, i do understand that the best gear is not needed to complete the current content. i can see where the op is coming from though. the goal of each character on the game is to get the best possible item in every spot they can. sure i don't need that felt robe(red) +3 with 5 healing hands equipped on it, but that won't stop me from trying to get it.

i don't think the issue is that the item is in another city. the problem is they are trying to get the best gear for the gear setup and tanking style he prefers to use and due to being part of one company instead of another it is impossible. in every mmo i have touched people are always trying to get the best gear. if they weren't then items like relics would have never had a reason to be put in game. they were by far the best items, but they took a long time to get. they were hard to get, but with the companies those certain items are impossible.

did the op go too far on his rant? yes, because we know each company will get stuff in the future. the thing is the future could be after this patch or it could be a year down the road and nobody knows which.

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+1

/123456789

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

i actually like the way they do GC gear cause i hate it when everyone looks the same.

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another hugely valid point, and the fact that i am agreeing with you in specific says alot cuz i generaly hate your posts

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

I am calm. I can be upset over something and voice my opinion. And no you are right, if the shield was in my GC I would not be here, but then someone else would be here posting what I am posting. The fact of the matter is there are currently 2 sides to the debate.

1: GC's are unbalanced

2: just wait SE will fix it

the problem is we shouldnt have to wait for SE to fix it. They should not break things in the first place.

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I'm fine with GCs getting certain gear that's better than the others, I think they should just not make it untradable or make it available at 2x the seal cost for other GCs.

btw Licont is a noob.

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Originally Posted by Tiamat

I'm fine with GCs getting certain gear that's better than the others, I think they should just not make it untradable or make it available at 2x the seal cost for other GCs.

btw Licont is a noob.

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shuddap alma! :P <3

yah this whole thing could be avoided if they would make all GC items available just at a higher cost.

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...rs-pokemon.gif

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pi...rs-pokemon.gif

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oh my gawd...LOL +1

Calm down there buddy.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

..Which is exactly what most modern MMOs have been practicing for the past few years. There's still no advantage unless you can prove that Immortal Flames for example gives you complete game changing advantage over Maelstrom for example -- I want to see a quest from Immortal flames that will progress your character further than if you join Maelstrom, I also want to see how joining Maelstrom or Twin Adder will progress you slower.

That's unbalance. Items that will be obsoleted isn't unbalancing anything.

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It prevents you from progressing to the optimal setup for gear for this patch, even if you want to. You don't seem to understand that gear is near everything in this game, like I stated in the first post I made in this topic. It would be like saying everyone can do the ifrit quest but only uldahns can get ifrit weapons in the last patch. Yeah they will be obsolete, but ill be damned if i am not doing 150 damage more per weaponskill with my harpoon which equates to about 3000 damage more for me per ifrit fight, and I know its going to help me on the moogle fight.

chear up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

If every single inventory update on gear from GCs were balanced, there'd be no variety.

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See, this is what gets me. The idea that this sort of "variety" is desirable. Personally, I prefer having a variety of options to having some arbitrary and artificial "company uniqueness".

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

168 block rate shield in grid....

awesome...

finally a good shield


oh wait...im in the wrong GC


THANKS SE I FRIGGIN HATE YOU!

SERIOUSLY! WTF?! for pretty much everything else you added to the GC's there is something somewhere that is either as good or better, EXCEPT THAT SHIELD! OMFG HAS ANYONE ELSE EVEN SEEN THIS AND BEEN AS ENRAGED AS ME?!

THIS IS SO STUPID

I try very hard to be the best tank I can be, get the best gear I can, attempt many double/triple melds, sink lots of gil into the job, and this is just a giant F*&K YOU from SE.

THANKS SE! <3

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Cry me a river....

/close this please

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Originally Posted by Req

It prevents you from progressing to the optimal setup for gear for this patch, even if you want to. You don't seem to understand that gear is near everything in this game, like I stated in the first post I made in this topic. It would be like saying everyone can do the ifrit quest but only uldahns can get ifrit weapons in the last patch. Yeah they will be obsolete, but ill be damned if i am not doing 150 damage more per weaponskill with my harpoon which equates to about 3000 damage more for me per ifrit fight, and I know its going to help me on the moogle fight.

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no one can be optimized though, thats another point people are choosing to ignore

every guild has peices that are better then others, so in the end, everyone will want a peice from another guild they cant have, and that isnt "non optimization" but balance itself

your best legs may come from company a, while the helmet from company b

everyone in the same company as you will have equal rights to the same peices, and people in others will have their peices

the incentive is that you get the choice of which company you go with and thats the peices you get optimized
if you chose the other guild, well then youd be out the legs instead of the head, either way, youd be out a peice

and since NO ONE can get all of them, then its not like someone has an advantage over you as such, no, they are in the same boat you are


so when you speak of optimization, optimization vs what? other players, or against what you feel are the best peices in the game regardless of the fact no one can actualy have all at the same time

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Originally Posted by Req

It prevents you from progressing to the optimal setup for gear for this patch, even if you want to. You don't seem to understand that gear is near everything in this game, [...]

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First of all, gear is not even close to being "everything" in this game. Second, you can not always be in a "optimal setup of gear", otherwise there would be only 1 set for every few levels. If you are obsessed with equipment, it's your problem, it's not the game's problem or GC's items' problem or FFXIV devs' problem or even SE's problem.

You want to play this game with optimal gear all the time? It's possible, but it sure won't be easy. You shouldn't burden everyone else with your elitist setup because you want it easier to be "optimal". Grand Company's gear is different from each other and it is fine like that, it adds diversity and uniqueness to each Grand Company. In the next patch, it might be The Maelstrom that gets the super awesome gear, in the one after it will be another. But in the end, it will be evenly split, but all different.

The whole argument is moot because whether or not that shield is the best in the game is subjective. It is not universally accepted.

Also, I seriously doubt OP's claims of being some amazing tank if he cannot grasp this.

You say what is the point of having higher damage mitigation on blocks if you don't block often at all?

I say what the hell is the point in blocking very often if your blocks barely make any difference at all?

GLA gets 2 skills that directly enhance Block Rate. They get none that enhance Block damage mitigation.

That Serpant shield is not the best in the game. This is my opinion. You are free to your opinion that it is the shield you want most. In that case, tough luck buddy. It isn't, however, a question of balance because that shield is not universally the best option for that slot.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

it was never ment to be?? its called nerd rage. learn it.

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That's the most stupid thing I read today.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

The whole argument is moot because whether or not that shield is the best in the game is subjective. It is not universally accepted.

Also, I seriously doubt OP's claims of being some amazing tank if he cannot grasp this.

You say what is the point of having higher damage mitigation on blocks if you don't block often at all?

I say what the hell is the point in blocking very often if your blocks barely make any difference at all?

GLA gets 2 skills that directly enhance Block Rate. They get none that enhance Block damage mitigation.

That Serpant shield is not the best in the game. This is my opinion. You are free to your opinion that it is the shield you want most. In that case, tough luck buddy. It isn't, however, a question of balance because that shield is not universally the best option for that slot.

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sigh its funny...so far no one has had enough brains to figure out how amazing this shield is.
thats ok. it is by far the best shield in the game. and I can't wait to tell you I told you so when my friends get it and we parse it.

troll is troll. lets get back ontopic.

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Originally Posted by Noir

Cry me a river....

/close this please

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noob

/oust from this thread please

lol

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

sigh its funny...so far no one has had enough brains to figure out how amazing this shield is.
thats ok. it is by far the best shield in the game. and I can't wait to tell you I told you so when my friends get it and we parse it.

troll is troll. lets get back ontopic.

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If you won't care to explain it clearly, don't mention it at all.
How is that shield so good to complain about it? Also, I seriously doubt anyone here will be inclined to listen to you if you keep a condescending tone.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

If you won't care to explain it clearly, don't mention it at all.
How is that shield so good to complain about it? Also, I seriously doubt anyone here will be inclined to listen to you if you keep a condescending tone.

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check a few pages back. I already explained my point. compared this shield to the current best shield in game. I made my point many posts ago and no one cares they just want to flame. we had a good series of constructive posts going for awhile but then the trolls came back. guess they just had not woken up yet.

anyway this thread does indeed need to be locked im tired of arguing with people that dont care or dont know enough to make a good discussion.

that shield is the best in the game. done.

Another person upset, cuz they re adding better stuff than current one. This is a game, game.

There is block next to block rate :P which isnt the highest one there. /cheers.
But if this lead yo' to rage quit ! Thing ;-D

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

check a few pages back. I already explained my point. compared this shield to the current best shield in game. I made my point many posts ago and no one cares they just want to flame. we had a good series of constructive posts going for awhile but then the trolls came back. guess they just had not woken up yet.

anyway this thread does indeed need to be locked im tired of arguing with people that dont care or dont know enough to make a good discussion.

that shield is the best in the game. done.

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I read it, it sure is an interesting shield. However, that doesn't make it the best in the game, it applies mostly to your situation, which makes it the best for you. Or, you failed at explaining how it truly is the best shield in any situation.

Currently blocking is broken, having all my sent gear with +block rate and the best shield in the game with a +20def materia melded to it still does not make it as good as that shield.

People are still failing to see the obvious reason that it is the best shield. All your damage mitigation is POINTLESS if you CANNOT block in the first place. high block rate is always better than high mitigation. Even if I dont block for much, atleast I blocked for something instead of not blocking hardly at all.

And all you noobs saying "uhh derp i'd rather block for alot than block alot for low cause you cant get higher mitigation uhh derp"...try increasing your vit or defense...noobs. there is materia for that...

Calling other ppl noobs, its a nice way to show how kind you are. I hate other ppl calling others noobs, cuz they think they re better than the rest of the community. Noob here, noob there :-D What is this. Hh.

You're an idiot. If I'm a troll for discussing stats, and you aren't for making ad hominem posts and calling everyone who doesn't agree with you a noob - then I really may have to give up on you.

If you cannot understand that neither Block Rate nor Block are a universally better stat, and that they work in tandem, then I don't care how high up your ego is in your mind, you wouldn't be tanking in any party I'm in.

High Block Rate, low Block damage mitigation: 10 hits, block 5 of them, negating 20 damage each.
Low Block Rate, high Block damage mitigation: 10 hits, block 2 of them, negating 50 damage each.

If you cannot grasp that those are the same, then all hope is lost.

Again, add to this that there are 2 GLA skills that enhance how often you will Block in a fight, whereas none that enhance how much you will Block for, and it's plain as day that a GLA Tank should be sporting a large shield with high mitigation.

Third time I've pointed this out, and to each of them you've simply replied with an insult and a blatant disregard for the point made, simply regurgitating your "All your damage mitigation is POINTLESS if you CANNOT block in the first place." drivel.

Aegis Boon forces a guaranteed Block. It also gives HP back based on how much you block for.
Outmaneuver increases Block Rate for a set duration, and gives bonuses to TP and MP based on how much you block for.

If you cannot even form a cohesive response addressing those points that clearly point towards higher Block value being more desirable on a tanking GLA's shield, then don't even bother posting like a broken record. It's just sad really.

Do yourself a favor, get off that high horse of yours and learn a thing or two. Repeatedly calling oneself a pro and calling others noobs does not make one professional.

If people want to complain they are allowed to..no one is forcing anyone to read anything. If people don't like others posts just ignore it and find something better to do with your time ; ;

As for me I don't really care which GC gets which items..I have a feeling there will be much better gear that comes from NM, HNM, Raids and the like after 2.0(Or possibly even before). Also relic weapons (Or whatever they are going to be called) so I really could care less about which gear comes from which GC at the time. However if someone else is upset at it that is fine..we have no right to tell people how to think...:/

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

If people want to complain they are allowed to..no one is forcing anyone to read anything. If people don't like others posts just ignore it and find something better to do with your time ; ;

As for me I don't really care which GC gets which items..I have a feeling there will be much better gear that comes from NM, HNM, Raids and the like after 2.0(Or possibly even before). Also relic weapons (Or whatever they are going to be called) so I really could care less about which gear comes from which GC at the time. However if someone else is upset at it that is fine..we have no right to tell people how to think...:/

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Stop being logical and level headed, this is an internet forum. You have to sling insults at people if you don't agree with what they have to say.

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Originally Posted by LicontAshontear

Currently blocking is broken, having all my sent gear with +block rate and the best shield in the game with a +20def materia melded to it still does not make it as good as that shield.

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Let me get this straight, that shield is only good because blocking is "broken", right?

What about the total damage taken vs blocked at the end of a fight? Won't it be the same? Just like DPS can be equal with high damage/slow swing weapons vs low damage/rapid swing weapons. It would be the same with shields? Explain how it's not possible with shields because it is "broken". Just take a look at my classes and you'll notice I do am a newb at gladiator, teach me. If you truly are right, you'll be seen as the master gladiator from your peers and no one will oppose.