Valid point, but I don't think we'll be too far off. We get our own personal Foe's Requiem with Contagion now, increased Ruin potency with Tri-Disaster casts, and there will also be more frequent Enkindles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
SMN changes
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06-02-2017, 03:06 AMShaolinMike
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06-02-2017, 03:15 AMNeela
yeah mr.happy said most of the pet skills will become selfbuffs - so swapping egis in and out during fights + the frequent use of Enkindles are supporting the "pet"-class character even more - might be very different to the current playstyle-feeling but I don't see this cls backstepping in any regards... : o
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06-02-2017, 03:37 AMTsukaasa
It might sound stupid but what bothers me the most is the 60s recast on shadowflare, how many times in dungeon does the tank move away from the aoe ?
It's going to be a nightmare... -
06-02-2017, 03:48 AMFyceWith the nerf to Aetherflow (only gives 10% MP instead of 20%) I wouldn't even think of re-casting the current Shadowflare to relocate it because the tank moved. Not only it makes me lose GCD, but it also cost a lot of MP. I'm just gonna blame the tank (or myself for not taking whatever AoE he had to dodge).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukaasa
But Shadowflare being an oGCD mean that it won't cost mana, and it'll be instant. So, even if we lose 50% uptime on it, if you can throw a Ruin III with it, the difference in potency won't be as bad as it sounds. It also free the use of Swiftcast, which will be clearly needed if we find out that switching pet for their buffs is the new way to play SMN.
In short, even if it's a potency nerf, it's actually a welcome change. -
06-02-2017, 04:10 AMShaolinMikeConsidering Painflare's shorter recast time and the fact that we can now get TWO Deathflares and TWO Akh Morns with the use of 6 Aetherflow stacks, a misplaced Shadowflare is gonna be a fly on the windshield of our AOE freight train.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukaasa
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06-02-2017, 04:14 AMVallhallix
My thing is, if they want SMN to be stronger at single target, what exactly was the point in nerfing ruin? and I hope that the fester nerf is just the wrong tooltip. Yoshi nerfed SMN heavily while making BLM even stronger with next to no serious nerfs, this hasen't happened before /s. Good thing I geared both classes, will probably use BLM for SB content until I switch over to SAM/RDM until they fix this class. Of course I will wait to see on release if the changes really are as bad as they sound.
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06-02-2017, 04:20 AMShaolinMikeThey had to need the initial potency of Ruin to account for the additional potency it gets from Ruination and Devotion. Otherwise it would be a bit insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallhallix
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06-02-2017, 04:22 AMSilverquickActually its a decreased Ruin 3 potency... with only a chance of casting a Ruin 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinMike
We had Raging Strikes prior... The Contagion replacement is only 10%. None of that really makes up for the loss. Actually I take that back, it might over the long term work out a little better... but prior it was about 550 potency in AoE damage, I'm not sure it will make it to that level of damage.
Now... IF Ruin 3 had remained a 200 potency... and was UPGRADED to 220 Potency as we gained levels...
It would be a different story... but as its stands, its really just a nerf... with the possibility of a mean damage of all of it equaling probably around 180 potency.
Which means we're nerfed for all the levels prior to getting Ruin 4... and then after that... there's only a chance we'll actually cast it...
That's the real problem here. -
06-02-2017, 04:35 AMVallhallix
Yeah ^ rng like that for a BLM made sense they have a constant burst of high potency spells, on SMN I don't know how to feel about that. We'll have to see.
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06-02-2017, 07:18 AMShaolinMikeRaging Strikes was on a 3 minute cooldown though. Yes, Aetherpact (which triggers Devotion) is only 5%, but it's on a 90 second cooldown, so not terrible. And again, nothing really counts until we hit Level 70. That would be like saying BLM was nerfed because it didn't get Fire IV until level 60.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverquick
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06-02-2017, 07:48 AMSunako
Summoner become really nice support job with devotion and this new pet ability that boost whole party magical damage contribution. Caster abilities offer mana transfer for healers too so I wonder can summoner fill bards spot in the expansion. Probably stacking casters can be option in the expansion?
https://i.imgur.com/J6V4GT6.pnghttps://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...Mana-Shift.pnghttps://gamerescape.com/wp-content/u...5/Devotion.png -
06-02-2017, 08:57 AMAristocraticCorgiYes indeed! SMN now can buff other party members :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunako
So excited about it! I think that SB will bring many different party comps, as in, we may see more than one meta! That'd be amazing. -
06-02-2017, 10:48 AMArynne
I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes go. I love having utility as I think it makes for a much more fun playstyle than just DPSing. It'll take a bit, but I think eventually I'll be able to find a smooth rotation which alternates between building up DoTs, buffing the party, then doing burst damage.
If we do end up switching out egi for different party buffs and effects I think that's going to be great. While it'll make things a bit clunky at first as I get used to it, I've always wanted to have more focus on using our summons. This will definitely make me pay more attention to who's out rather than defaulting to Garuda. Some of the complexity of maintaining DoTs may be gone, but I think it'll be replaced with egi management.
Plus if each egi has a specific buff and purpose now, that'll open up the way to maybe having more egis added (I know, probably a pipe dream but I'll continue to dream!) -
06-02-2017, 12:07 PMVallhallix
Egi management is the absolute worst part about the job though, the less the better imo. If they really want egis to play a bigger role they should atleast make them self sustaining now that we lost that ability. I like to keep swiftcast up incase a healer drops, last thing I want is to be constantly wasting it to bring back a dead egi. At the very least, lower the casting times of the egi or make them instant. Honestly i'd rather them focus on the trances for summons in the future, the pets we already have are enough (and one of them goes completely unused outside of pve or that rare case you don't get a tank in potd). I'd rather them add new trances/summons than waste our abilities in an expansion on pets. What will happen is one will be used more than the others just how it is now.
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06-02-2017, 01:08 PMShaolinMike
Saw a post on imgur with new egi abilities. They get something called Curl which decreases the damage they take by 20% for a period of time. Also, if their HP regenerates while Bahamut is summoned, that's 20 seconds of regent time every so often.
Here's the link: https://m.imgur.com/r/ffxiv/O9JIv -
06-02-2017, 03:43 PMSirDiscoFrogCurl is Topaz Carbuncle's cooldown for Summon II which is the tank pet, I don't think its gone through any changes from its current iteration. The only abilities that were changed egi wise seems to be Contagion and Radiant Shield, which I am sooo happy about. This definitely will give Ifrit-egi a clear usage while bringing Garuda-egi down a lil without nerfing her.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinMike
This would be cool for when were just solely dpsing although I'm hoping maybe they add in something that allows Physic to be based off of SMN's INT instead of MND which is what seems to be what RDM's VerCure is based off of. While Egi survivalbility isn't a huge issue, it can still be a concern when soloing with Summon II, to which we'd definitely still need something to keep them up.Quote:
Also, if their HP regenerates while Bahamut is summoned, that's 20 seconds of regent time every so often.
That also leaves to question.....what happens to pet enmity when Bahamut gets summoned? Will a mob that I had Titan-Egi/Topaz Carby tanking suddenly start attacking me when I Summon Bahamut? I guess in that case when soloing you could ignore summoning him or adapt the usual mentality other dps probably go through when soloing of kill it fast so it doesn't wreck you lol -
06-06-2017, 07:47 PMKarshan
The way I see it : we get a powerful Bahamut every 2 minutes, but we pay a price for it in terms of personal power. Problems I can see with it :
- Death will be even more of a punishment for us than other classes.
- We get the Bahamut only at 70, but the fee is payed way before and all up to it.
I think it will be really balanced at 70 and adapted with the new stuff. With the dmg / potency increasing, they had to nerf potencies.
BUT if we have to go back (and we will have to because of memoquartz, to stuff rerolls, farm relic, etc…) we’ll juste be in there basically 20-30% less efficient than now. So it’s EXACTLY like heavensward :
• HS : oh god now that I’ve reached 60’s gameplay, I don’t even want to play a thing not 60 with SMN anymore, not ever !
• SB : will be exactly the same but with 70.
I’m kinda getting bored with that (a “don’t go back or feel the pain” class). But I’m really optimistic for 70 content. -
06-06-2017, 07:49 PMKarshan
Sorry for double post, 1000 characters limitation
Another thing I’m a bit annoyed with : I always thought SMN lacked spammable AOE (even at high MP cost I’d take it) and had to rely too much on CD abilities (a tank doing packs of 2 becoming infuriating).
I thought ruin 4 would be an AOE type, to do something outside of transe, and balance the gameplay between transe and out of transe. So that we wouldn’t pressure tanks and healers, to reduce possible friction in dungeons.
But they went the opposite way ! Focus in transe bursts even more and nerf AOE. Guess what ? I absolutely don’t wanna take a Bahamut out, only available every 2 mins, for 2 useless trashmobs ! But what other choice will we have ? -
06-06-2017, 09:23 PMDraxxion
As fun as speculation is, the built we saw was an April dev built. It is going to be hard to say till the actual patch notes how strong or weak SMN will be or how all the mechanics will work. Take everything you saw as concept only.
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06-06-2017, 09:38 PMLeigaon
I'll admit I jumped the gun a bit after seeing it. I saw we could summon bahamut and thought "Okay the kids got their toy what did they fix for the adults?"
I like the party buffs and I don't think Garuda will be my go-to for so much, but we wait and see.
I wonder what minor changes they did for Ifrit to fix the time he takes to stop..turn..and float to the mob over garuda who just turns and starts sneezing. A gap closer would be wonderful, low potency and shorten recast.
I guess we won't have to worry hopefully about hitting this new ability as much as the old one for Garuda maybe? Also Enkindle delays.
Seems they took down our bane but they hit everyone with something like that. I guess they really don't want these speed runs but the dungeons encourage it. So maybe they'll do some QoL changes on dungeons.
Manashift will be fun. I don't mind being a team player, it's not a constant synergy but someone is going to have MP problems and it always bothered me I couldn't do something as a smn other than a swift raise or two. I loose one thing, gain another.
I like the longer duration on DoT's. I was considering picking up my bow from 1.0 and letting my book collect dust, but maybe not..let my carby shine.
That's true, we don't know how things have changed. It makes it hard not to say something but then again I think they've seen how much people react to changes. I just want the notes to come out so they have something to read and while they complain I can play and enjoy. I'm looking at you Salt-Mages!Quote:
Originally Posted by Draxxion
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06-07-2017, 02:13 AMVallhallixHis attack is around 680 potency, and can be used twice in one summon, you should be taking him out as much as possible to begin with, even more so on single target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karshan
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06-07-2017, 02:34 AMKarshanOf course I will, but on 2 trash it's like Goku going all Genkidama in SSJ3 on a saibaman, it does the job but it's frustrating as hell...To use a Bahamut for any pack under 8 mobs seems so...unworthy of him, I don't know. I would have loved for ruin 3 to get this decrement to 150 but become AOE while Ruin 4 takes its placeQuote:
Originally Posted by Vallhallix
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06-07-2017, 02:55 AMShaolinMikeConsidering Aethertrail stacks no longer have a timer, you can save Bahamut summoning for when you actually want to use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karshan
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06-07-2017, 03:55 AMDraxxion
There is on thing I wish they could adress, maybe Bahamut will fix this, is how Aetherflow starved one can get going from pull to pull. With cooldown to Shadowflare, if it goes through, will mean we can only put that up once per minute, Blizzard 2 is gone, and our other AoE all rely on having Aetherflow or being in Dreadwyrm Trance or having Bahamut out. That means a lot more tab doting and I for one find that quite frustrating. I would love to see Bane taken off Aetherflow and being able to only spread to maybe 3 other mobs and have a cooldown like it does now. My two gil thought as being a DoT class with no resource to spread dots is just a pain.
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06-07-2017, 04:33 AMDyvidThis is a god send. I hate the timer. I hate getting to the boss with 7s left and the tank is scratching themselves as it ticks down.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinMike
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06-07-2017, 05:28 AMSunakoExcept every second you keep your aethertrail stacks that tick from your aetherflow that can be situational even bigger dps loss than dropping current stacks. You want always use dreadwyrm stance 15 sec before aetherflow get out from the cooldown if you dont wanna see huge dps loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvid
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06-07-2017, 05:45 AMShaolinMikeIn a raid setting, yeah. But between trash pulls in a dungeon, I prefer the convenience of being able to sit on my stacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunako