The dragon war and the Dragoon

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Originally Posted by Felis

A pet would weaken the Dragoon's power

But if the Dragoon himself transform to a dragon, he can have access to powerfull breath attacks without sharing his power with a pet. The transformation can hold 45 seconds with 5 minute cool down.

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The point is to add a companion, draw back to transforming, besides making the DRG into a heretic if you followed the story line of DRG as well. Dragons are bulky, would hinder movement, and in 45 sec count would be slower being breaths normally would have a casting time. How is that more power? Also your not even lvl 60 DRG so I doubt you understand how DRG DPS works otherwise you wouldn't of made that comment. I give you the fact that is a creative idea and perhaps as a solo LB it may work but in a group dynamic, it would clash. Also drinking blood is a bit different as a type of betrayal to both Dragons and any race.

NOTE: PLS FINISH DRG STORY LINE TO 60 YOU WILL UNDERSTAND BETTER

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

have a pet would not low the dps or raise it mind you. through expansion the job are get more powerful are they not. for storm blood it only going to increase all jobs.

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Ofc the dragoon itself would have to deal less damage to compensate for the damage the pet is dealing.
There are two things that determine the power of the attack: One is the strength of the attack, the other one is the strength of your gear (mainly the weapon ofc). The reason that the our strength increases with our level (aka the expansion) lies mainly within the weapon, not so much in the skills.

Looking at the dragoon for example: The two new skills that they got with HW are obviously the strongest this job has with a potential up to 290, if done correctly - I didnt check all jobs in the game, but thats hitting harder than Fire IV from BLM, so its probably one of the strongest skills in the game. And it will stay one of the strongest skills in the game - I would be very surprised if SB came out and 290 skills would be the norm all out of sudden.
But having your pet as a (meaningful) perma-dot on top of being one of the hardest hitting classes in the game sounds more than a bit OP to me. So yes, bringing the pet as a constant companion into the game would require them to adjust all dragoon-skills or adjust the job as whole somehow, making it weaker in some sort. Even if the wohle SB-skills would only focus on the pet - dont you think that your request sucks for all those people who picked the dragoon because they wanted to play a hard hitting melee class? Because thats simply what dragoon is in this game: A hard hitting melee class for people who like to see high numbers. People who are playing FFXIV may or may not have picked this class because they like excatly that - if you're a FFXI-vet and wanted your old dragoon back: Sorry to tell you again that this isnt FFXI. What you're asking for isnt so simple as it seems to be in your mind (again: both lore and gameplay wise).
I can understand all your nostalgic wishes and all that "I want my FFXI-dragoon back!" but as far as I can tell FFXI and FFXIV are two very different games - seeing how CDs in FFXI could be well over an hour while in FFXIV I'm crying over my 7 minutes on Hallowed Ground.
Your statment there brings yet another FFXI-class into play and makes me wonder more and more if you really want to play FFXIV - and not FFXI 2.0.
Dont get me wrong, its ofc totally okay to say "Hey, I'd like to see that!" but your observsation seems to be correct: This dev-team doesnt like pet-joby, for whatever reason. And this dev-team choose a certain path for dragoon - a path, mind you, that fits well in with other FF-games. I doubt that any of this thread will even reach them, so I dont know why I'm even bothering anymore - expect maybe to tell you personally: Let FFXI go when playing this game. Have respect for the dev-team making their own choices, as long as they're constitent with the game they're working on - even if they may differ from a former game. Thats how Final Fantasy is working as a franchise and if you dont like how one of the games is working, another might suit you better. Thats not supposed to sounds like "If you dont like it, you can get out", its supposed to express that variety is good, because everyone can choose what they like best then.

If you like your dragoon as a dragon-friend with a dragon-pet - cool, you can play FFXI!
If you like your dragoon as a strong melee-dps - cool, FFXIV will give you what you want!

Stop turning this game into FFXI - if you want to play that, go and play that!
Requests and ideas are cool and I'm sure when there are problems the devs themself will look to other games for inspiration - but the dragoon-job in FFXIV is working fine the way it is. There is absolutly no need to fundamentally change it after almost 4 years since the reboot of the game. It isnt broken, it is well established within the raiding community and balanced out with the other melee-jobs. Why throw all that into the bin because some people would rather play FFXI?

first off miss Vidu i been here since 1.0 i not tried turn ffxiv into ffxi.

ffxi had it issue more i just interest in more pet jobs. i won't complain ether way. since you feel nessacary to attack me on my desire to turn ffxiv into ffxi. i do want more pet job such beast master and the like. my issue with dragoon has alway been how fast the dragoon go down. how it doesn't have an ability to survive that battle. would I like dragonling yes do i think ffxi had dragoon perfect design no am i open to play dragoon as ffxiv has yes. i would like see more pets center jobs. though. I was simple ask quest realated question for example what will in future of spear shakers since they role in Ishgard is done.

as for pets job i like see hybrid pet jobs and other types of pet jobs

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

my issue with dragoon has alway been how fast the dragoon go down.

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First: Dragoon doesn't go down any faster than any other dps job, with exception possibly to 50MCH and BRD due to kiting. Dragoons get caught in animation locks, to be sure, and the long drawn out rotation doesn't make it a walk in the park at all to keep it going.

Second: Assuming for the sake of argument, you are right and dragoons do die faster than other dps, how does having a pet negate that? If anything it either becomes a perma dot pet (fire and forget, might as well not be there) or a hassle to manage the pet in addition to the rotation and would get dragoons killed even more.

Third: It would be interesting to see the Dragoon storyline further explore our Blood of the Dragon ability. Described in the lorebook, BotD is essentially the WoL tapping into the power of Nidhogg's eye, which as we saw with our fight against Estienienidhogg, there's still a lot more power to draw out and master ourselves.

Cool, you want more pet jobs - thats fine, but why turn one job that is, at it is, already well established, into something else? When there are people out there liking their dragoon as it is?
Why not request something like a "dragon-warrior" instead, a new job that would be build around having a dragon-pet? (Would even make more sense lorewise that the dragons would agree to fight alongside men and women which have given up the spear!)
See - variety! Everyone could pick what they like - and current dragoons who are happy with their job can keep that.

About "drgaoons are dying"... first off, Dualgunner was so nice to point out that a pet doesnt help there either. Second: Dragoons are having higher defense on their armour compared to all other jobs - so actually they should have higher chances of survival compared to monks and ninjas, for example. Specially now after they fixed the magic defense with HW.
Dragoons dying more often than other jobs is a meme - most likely caused by people not being able to read mechanics, move out of AoEs or using their jumps at really bad times. Happens with every job too - it doesnt mean the job is broken, it means people are just bad at it.

Now, future of dragoons is an intresting question - specially because its actually two questions:
1) What will become of all the ishgardian dragoons who fought in the war and should now burn their spears to show good will?
My personal theory: Nothing for now. We killed Nidhogg and made peace with Vidofnir - doesnt mean all other dragoons agree with that, just like not all Ishgardians agree with the peace. So for now keeping the dragoons to potentially defend against any dragon who still wants to see Ishgard burn seems reasonable to me. After that... spearfishing. (and yes, I'm kidding here)

2) What will become of the job dragoon that we can play?
Drinking dragonblood to become a dragon-human-hybrid; going back to the lancers guild and learn more about killing goats with spears; finding a new spear-master in the east (who knows how to catch fish using the lance!)... there are a lot of options they can explore while still keeping dragoon a melee-job.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

first off miss Vidu i been here since 1.0 i not tried turn ffxiv into ffxi. ffxi had it issue more i just interest in more pet jobs. i won't complain ether way. since you feel nessacary to attack me on my desire to turn ffxiv into ffxi. i do want more pet job such beast master and the like. my issue with dragoon has alway been how fast the dragoon go down. how it doesn't have an ability to survive that battle. would I like dragonling yes do i think ffxi had dragoon perfect design no am i open to play dragoon as ffxiv has yes. i would like see more pets center jobs. though. I was simple ask quest realated question for example what will in future of spear shakers since they role in Ishgard is done.

as for pets job i like see hybrid pet jobs and other types of pet jobs

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Your beating a dead horse, no matter how many times we try writing, emphasizing, and bold typing WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TURN FFXIV INTO FFXI people still can't understand. Also as per your comment on DRG going down fast. It doesn't go down faster than any other DPS, infact it has more def than most gear wise and has way to avoid with Cross Class traits. Also the whole lock animation excuse can be bypassed if you move during the animation and I've yet to actually be caught in it with the exception of elusive jump which is all about timing and can't be bypassed. The whole theory on pet having to share stats with DRG isn't like FFXI where we have a link your soul to it which can share stats which apparently these FFXI player seem to forget hence the skill Spirit Link. In this game it wouldn't be the case. IT WOULD BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and while the explanation Vidu gives is creative seem to lack the main concept on the same key words that he/she is trying to say, ITS NOT FFXI, there for I see were your coming from. We don't want pet, in FFXIV it would be like a companion. If they recall the 1.0 companion NPC that you work with? same concept, completely individual just in a wyvern form with perhaps attacks or abilities like FFXI would be a nice concept being they really have no other attacks that I can think of. While it may seem redundant, how many attacks can a wyvern have?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

In this game it wouldn't be the case. IT WOULD BE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT and while the explanation Vidu gives is creative seem to lack the main concept on the same key words that he/she is trying to say, ITS NOT FFXI, there for I see were your coming from. We don't want pet, in FFXIV it would be like a companion. If they recall the 1.0 companion NPC that you work with? same concept, completely individual just in a wyvern form with perhaps attacks or abilities like FFXI would be a nice concept.

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Maybe, to make it a bit more clear what I'm opposing here and to make it clear that I'm not totally against your ideas: I dont like the idea of revamping an existing, functioning job for no good reason. I do understand your wish for a dragon-companion, but maybe you can try and understand that people are playing FFXIV-dragoon because they like FFXIV-dragoon as the melee-class it is - instead of playing a pet-class.
All I'm trying to say is: There is no need or reason to fundamentally change a well established job after almost 4 years of people playing that job the way it is now.

However, two ideas that could work a lot better in my book:

1) More chocobo-like companions for our solo-adventures. Ranging from our ponies giving those polarbears a good kick in the nuts, to my beautiful Fenrir or, there you have it, the Wyvern-mount.
2) Making a new, melee-based pet-job - wether its a dragon-pet or not doesnt matter, but building that job from the ground up with the pet in mind should lead to better results than cramping a pet into a functioning job.

The reason I keep repeating "This isnt FFXI" is mostly because both of you seem a bit... blinded by nostalgia to me - this is not meant as an attack, and I totally dont want to imply your ideas or wishes arent good, but once you get the idea of "this is how it worked in FFXI" out of your head, your ideas could actually get better! Why limit a wyvern-companion to dragoons only in the open world? Why change a job and halfass something someone when the better solution would be to create a new one? (Granted, thats probably not likely, but lets be honest... neither is them changing dragoon...)

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Your beating a dead horse, no matter how many times we try writing, emphasizing, and bold typing WE ARE NOT TRYING TO TURN FFXIV INTO FFXI people still can't understand.

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Except....

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

If they recall the 1.0 companion NPC that you work with? same concept, completely individual just in a wyvern form with perhaps attacks or abilities like FFXI would be a nice concept.

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....you're still doing it.

Dragoon already has its mechanical identity well established in FFXIV as a slower, heavy-hitting melee and there's no reason to deviate from that. If that's not what you want, then play another job.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Except........you're still doing it.

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I'm sorry but what other attacks besides breath attacks, some diving into enemies with a wing attack, might it have? I know a lance in one arm as well....:confused: O wait I know lets put a shield on it instead.... There is only soo many ways it can be done. I know lets do some Dive bombs or follow up with a steal command on it? Maybe add a command to eat a LaLa. ?

Also different story line , Soul link vs a companion.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

I'm sorry but what other attacks besides breath attacks, some diving into enemies with a wing attack, might it have? I know a lance in one arm as well....:confused: O wait I know lets put a shield on it instead.... There is only soo many ways it can be done. I know lets do some Dive bombs or follow up with a steal command on it? Maybe add a command to eat a LaLa. ?

Also different story line , Soul link vs a companion.

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Are you asking here what they're going to do with the dragoon-job? While somehow suggesting that adding a dragon-pet is the ONLY way that job can proceed? Or what are your ideas about now?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Are you asking here what they're going to do with the dragoon-job? While somehow suggesting that adding a dragon-pet is the ONLY way that job can proceed? Or what are your ideas about now?

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I'm asking IF they did what other ways can you implement a companion based. As per the original statement FFXI pretty much covered the basics, there isn't much a wyvern can do. ( choco type as per your suggestion ) as a way to attack/ def/ heal ect. The point being ANY game that has a companion can be limited based on class / type specially if none humanoid. Adding emotions is fun when riding a choco so why not, same as some minions will react differently\ based on expressions.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

I'm asking IF they did what other ways can you implement a companion based.

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But they won't. That's what we're saying. There's no "if". It just won't happen.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Just give Dragoons dragon blood to drink, so they can transform themself into dragons.

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I'd rather have this as well. It would be like dreadwyrm trance except you'd transform into Estinien's game model.

For game lore, a new generation of young ishgardian warriors go on a pilgrimage to the dravanian forelands, learning the dragon's way of life and are partnered with younglins. After one sufficiently bonds and age with their partners, they undergo a blood cup exchange, where they swear loyalty and friendship to one another. Both can transform into a hybrid form of one another for a shory period of time.

I think it was a mistake in XI and would be a mistake here. Dragoon is pretty balanced right now and why mess with what works. I'm not nearly as versed in FF history and lore like some here but from what I know it never really fit the class.

If they added the pet I'd likely find another class to main. Unless of course they also added pre nerf penta trust as a 4th combo, and it returned 60% TP if all the attacks hit. :cool:

i can be happy with a new pet jobs

but not yet i will pefer wait till after bloodstorm till the expansion after bloodstorm

i do want see blue mage tank

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

i can be happy with a new pet jobs

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If we ever get another pet job, it needs to be a real pet job. Something with more emphasis on the pet with a higher level of control required. Something along the lines of this concept.

The only other real option would be something that could spawn multiple pets at a time (i.e. Demonology Warlock in Legion in WoW). Beastmaster could fit this, albeit in a very limited fashion.

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Originally Posted by Savagelf

i can be happy with a new pet jobs

but not yet i will pefer wait till after bloodstorm till the expansion after bloodstorm

i do want see blue mage tank

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Bloodstorm's been out forever
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fHQZm6PZhGg/maxresdefault.jpg

(Sorry I love people mixing up the names x3)

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Originally Posted by Texa

“I was born with glass bones and paper skin. Every morning I break my legs, and every afternoon I break my arms. At night, I lie awake in agony until my heart attacks put me to sleep.”
-A Dragoon, probably

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Who lives in pineapple under the sea....

i like a job more like hunter for wow for beast master.
hybrid pet job are more type work side by side with they pet fight at they side
as for beast master i love to see it wield a whip.

another job also would be puppet master
i kind love see them use marionette control bar

sad this turn back into convestation on pet jobs oops. my fault