Regarding Full Party Premades in Frontline and Patch 3.5

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Sometimes.

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Do I smell sarcasm? ;)

My FL victory rate have been reduced severely after 3.5 (and my facepalm rate have subsequently skyrocketed). I guess it's a combination of freelancing vs premade ratio. If you freelance as much as I do, in my experience, if there are any premades, you do not get in the FC with the premade party.

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

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I think the Sometimes means almost never. I've beaten them...barely, only if they are focused on the other team and after I begged my team to sandwich them.

Ask around form a linkshell on your server ultimately this is an mmo which means that a majority of players come to play with other people. I play in premades from time to time, but i have also qued more solo than i ever have in a party. the real fun is in playing with other people and working towards winning a match. In my opinion the reason we have to discuss "premades" is that people generally dont care enough to learn to play in pvp ... strategies, burst rotations, macroes and marking targets... also positioning.... I think a bigger solution is to have a pvp hall to teach some of the basics and maybe some pvp mentor encouragement in the way of rewards so that players try to teach each other more often.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Sure, it may be fun for you or I, but after a while of getting literally stomped into the ground, it gets old. It gets old fast.

Sure premades are "beatable" (and Im not talking about a premade of new pvpers, im talking about premades full of top 100 Feast, Hand of Mercys, ect) by trying to avoid them. You can't always avoid them when they hunt you down.

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I see the Hand of Mercy and think of them like a hunt A/S rank. I track them, lure them out, and kill them. If someone lets us know that there's a premade, I stop focusing on objectives and focus on killing premade party members. x) That's just my mentality because I know the person will put up a fight and come back for a rematch, it makes the games more exciting! x)

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Originally Posted by Nirokun

I stop focusing on objectives and focus on killing premade party members.x)

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Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Good luck with that.

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You don't need luck if you know what you're doing :)

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Good luck with that.

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You wouldn't believe how bold and invincible the premade members must feel. :) Taking someone's battle high/fever is euphoric! I'm literally a SMN using myself as bait to lure out a high-fever. Nasty things like knocking them off cliffs to their death, or luring them to a small outcrop under the pretense of "running away" only to LB the entire outcrop with no way to escape (other than jumping to their deaths loooool). Of course, these are the MOST fun ways to kill someone, because I'm sure they can hear me say "I GOTCHA!" :)

Of course it doesn't always end that way, but it's much more fun to fight a premade group (imo) because they CARE about dying/losing/slowing their KO farm. x)

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Originally Posted by Murph

You don't need luck if you know what you're doing :)

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Khonor knows! We trained in PVP HARDMODE (aka Primal Adders). All victories were hard-won. x)

Complaining about about premades only discourages team play and increases que times. Both of which are bad for PVP.

These people have just recognized the same thing as many other posters in this thread have, namely PUGs suck at co-ordination, and found a way to address it. If your pursuit of "fairness" is taken to its logical conclusion we all lose out. You want premades to be separate from solo ques because they have an unfair advantage in terms of coordination. Is that not also true regarding PUG teams that do coordinate well? Its totally unfair that you got randomly thrown on the team of knuckle dragging, chat ignoring, battle high feeders as opposed to the enemy team who is listening to one another and working together. Lets remove the chat in FL so we are all on an equal playing field in terms of co-ordination. OR we can just deal with the fact that premades exist and do our best to lead our teams to victory in spite of them.

If that team from "whichever is relevant to your data center" server is on again tonight kicking everyone's butt: don't que, use it as a chance to grow, or beat them. While it may not be fun losing a bunch, punishing people for playing PVP the way it is meant to be played (via coordination and teamwork) is not an appropriate solution.

I tried PvPing when Seal Rock was a thing (I was Adders) we won some matches but yeah when we did win those matches that were premades it was amazing. I remember getting battle high with my buddies and defending our nodes while Cometoring everyone, as it was back when Smn was super strong I was pumping out 10+ kills a match. Now that we have Freelancer as an option i'm so thankful for PvP as my interests in MMOs nowadays are raiding/PvPing it was only today that I fought my first premade team but they didn't win, we almost won the last match but we were short 80 points. I've been PvPing a ton this week so far about 40 matches and i've won over 20 so far, so what i'm saying is even with the odd premades, which to this day today was my first one you can still win matches it's not impossible.

I understand the fun of a premade it is fun, but when you're on the other end of the spectrum is does suck and get old pretty quick if I have to fight premades all day everyday though it'll get old. I honestly want to get into ranked PvP at some point since raiding has lost its lustre till SB launches but getting my friends into a premade I get maybe 2-3 people to que with me who I can secure kills with. But when i'm solo it's hard to communicate with people to kill targets or battle high people hell most people think that getting the base back ASAP is the way to play when it's not.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Frontlines is turning into a joke and the people defending full premades of skilled pvperw by saying "form your own", the actual PvP community is so small and tight-knit they typically will only play with their SWAT teams or not at all.

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Here's what you do, and please don't take any of this the wrong way. I mean it all with good intent:

- Learn your job how it's played in PvP and perform it to the best of your ability. Become familiar with not only your PvP skills, but other jobs' skills as well.
- Listen, listen, listen. And cooperate with calls made unless you know they're bad (even then, it's largely better to stay with your team to run damage control)
- Make friends. Has that same guy been on your team the last few matches? Wave, fistbump, etc. Be nice, be funny. Make friends.
- As you start recognizing people, or groups of people often together, ask if they're in a party and if they have room. Most people are pretty chill and will have someone along that they recognize and have seen performing fairly well.
- Worst case scenario: Heal. They can learn to love you, lol.

To be fair, until I made a name/visual identity for myself (see signature below), I got wrecked, a LOT. And I still do. Premades have done nothing but help me minimize that. Beyond that, I'm just playing with people I know - many former rivals turned friends - and just having fun besides. Facing premades also pushed me to try harder and adapt different strategies, and I feel I am mostly at a level where I can stand against them equally now.

Also, my Sometimes wasn't sarcastic, I was just keeping real about it. I've seen PUGs band together and pull off narrow wins. I've had an entire team of people I didn't know listen to me, and I beat several of my friends on one of the opposing teams with them. Coordination is possible, and DOES happen with randoms, but it doesn't happen consistently or as frequently as we'd all prefer.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Also, my Sometimes wasn't sarcastic, I was just keeping real about it. I've seen PUGs band together and pull off narrow wins. I've had an entire team of people I didn't know listen to me, and I beat several of my friends on one of the opposing teams with them. Coordination is possible, and DOES happen with randoms, but it doesn't happen consistently or as frequently as we'd all prefer.

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Yeah I had a VERY narrow 8v8v8 today where we had 802 points, Adders had 900, and my team was just sitting around for the big ice not killing Adders however, Adders came into the clearing by themselves with no healers and we picked em off 1 by 1 even the battle high guys. We ended up turning it around and won it and Adders had 995 points at the end it's crazy how PUGs can surprise you as well as the enemy team lol so I agree with this PUGs can give you the benefit of the doubt.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Its not about "git gud" because there is no getting better or helping new people learn when they cant even stay alive. Frontlines is turning into a joke and the people defending full premades of skilled pvperw by saying "form your own", the actual PvP community is so small and tight-knit they typically will only play with their SWAT teams or not at all.

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I remember back when Secure and Slaughter were what we were all playing. It wasnt uncommon for a BLM/SMN to call for others to hold their cometeors and had macros prepped to coordinated 3-4 cometeors at once. That was across the alliance, not via premades. You just dont see things like that much on Aether anymore. People used to play for the love of the game, and for Grand Company pride. Not that I'm against the changes they have made, things are only different now. As long as the que is filled with "Garo and Gone" players, as well as tome farmers, PUGs will generally lack the coordination to beat a good premade. However, as one who has been PVPing since we healer zerged in the Fold, my perspective is that it has not always been that way. People used to be able to coordinate and beat premades much more often in the past. Therefore, I believe the shift has occurred in player mentality, not player potential.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Can someone please explain to me what the issue is with players coordinating, cooperating, and communicating in a...

MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME?

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Memories, opinions, the works. :/