Feeling Underwhelmed with 3.4

I have two entire days booked off from work (next Tuesday and Wednesday). My work laughed at my reason for WHY I was booking the time off, but I'm very excited. You could even go as far as to say I'm completely the opposite of underwhelmed. Sorry that you're not feeling the same OP :(

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Absolutely. There's this growing mass off "no matter what you do, I'm going to be disappointed" people.
Only looking at something to complain or be 'offended' about, and in this case not even waiting to experience the content before once again starting up the negative bandwagon.

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Not really that, just an expression of basically "we've been waiting this long, and this is it?"

I've let my sub lapse, currently playing ESO, and guess what... between 3.35 and 3.4 of FFXIV, i have completely leveled 1 character, still have yet to complete a lot of the content, and when i read about the 3.4 content coming my thought was...guess i'll just wait until 4.0 before even trying coming back. Seriously, it is an incredibly long time between content patches and there is little to show for it. The MSQ is really the best thing to look forward to, but i doubt that will even be that "full" of content. Will most likely be 4-5 quests and that will be that. I'm not entirely sure how you can go months upon months designing interm content and it comes out to just a couple quests.

If they are structured correctly, there should be a design team for MSQ, design team for side quests, team for dungeons and possibly raids lumped together. If they have multiple design teams, there is no reason there should not be more content than what is being delivered. Maybe they put like 80% of their resources into creating the next full expansion, but then it should be so huge that when chopped up into the 4.X patches there is enough content to last a couple months before being worn out. With the way it is now, unless you are raiding savage, you simply outgrow the content in just a few weeks. Playing just for reset to roll around so that you can get a new piece of gear even though you have cleared all the content is not a grind that will keep players coming back. Having such a large amount of content, and a progressively increasing in difficulty so that you HAVE to get that extra piece to down it would be a better way.

I feel you. It's always the same and you already know what will happen in future patches... no surprises.
3.5 will just add another&last 24man raid, make upgrade items available from 260(script) to 270 via hunts except weapon and add 2 new dungeons+1primal, always the same^^

For me 3.4 is the last "good" patch since main reason to play this game are encounters / raids(savage), i dont really care about everything else because there's either absolutely no challenge(diadem/potd/aquopolis/dungeons/primals/24man-raids/alex etc.) or it's just boring and not my thing (RP, crafting/gathering, gold saucer, pvp, etc)
I like all those dungeons primals and stuff but honestly it's just a themepark-adventure that doesnt require you to focus or some knowledge of your class, extreme primals require a minimum of concentration but only the current one since you're usually massive overgeared for old ones, so they're as "extreme" as a "expert" dungeon.


Dont get me wrong it's still a great game. Once 3.4 savage is done it's time for a break till next addon.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Absolutely. There's this growing mass off "no matter what you do, I'm going to be disappointed" people.
Only looking at something to complain or be 'offended' about, and in this case not even waiting to experience the content before once again starting up the negative bandwagon.

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More like they have been burned several times already with with what to expect or hope for from the devs. aiming low gets contagious.

I'm getting pretty tired of the tome replacements. I'd prefer a merit system if I am max level. Being able to customize a skill set would be.. nice. That is really driving me away from this content, I've done this routine for a couple years now, I dealt with it.. somehow, but this time it feels like it's just annoying.

I wish I didn't, but agree with the OP. Its the same content formula we've had since 2.0 rinse and repeated yet again, with a few little additions here and there.

I am excited for new raid tier as I have no more stuff to do now except PvP. :)

What!? A premature disappointment post? WOW, I never would have guessed that an FFXIV player could be disappointed with something they haven't tried yet.
/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by AsteriaStarfall

Not really that, just an expression of basically "we've been waiting this long, and this is it?"

I've let my sub lapse, currently playing ESO, and guess what... between 3.35 and 3.4 of FFXIV, i have completely leveled 1 character, still have yet to complete a lot of the content, and when i read about the 3.4 content coming my thought was...guess i'll just wait until 4.0 before even trying coming back.

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HAH, I had started playing ESO around the same time! And feeling the exact same way you are to a T.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

What!? A premature disappointment post? WOW, I never would have guessed that an FFXIV player could be disappointed with something they haven't tried yet.
/sarcasm

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Don't need to try it when we've been playing it for three years now.

They will add Queen's hair from FF Type-0

OF COURSE I'M EXITED!!!!

Raids? Trials? What?

- Just kidding

I know is the same and same formula again, but is this formula that make me playing the game for more than 2 years. New things are awesome, and I want something new, but I'm fine with the current game formula. It's fun and entertains me a lot.

I really want to face Sophia and see the end of Alexander. (I'm holding myself a lot to now see the 3.4 trailer).

If they gonna change anything with the formula, they'll only do in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

HAH, I had started playing ESO around the same time! And feeling the exact same way you are to a T.

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And when you get to the end game in that game you'll be waiting around disappointing for content because it will last you a matter of weeks and not months. This happens to every single mmo in existence

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And here we are in Heavensward still wondering where they are.

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Raids have been different with Normal mode added - grinding Normal for gear was not a thing in 2.x.
Hunts have been different with the Hunt Bills added - there's now a real option to progress without joining in on the A/S Rank train.
Tome farming has been different in 3.0 with Roulettes and Aquapolis, you no longer have the days of spamming nothing but WP and Brayflox Hard on repeat, though some people still did grind ARF, it was a lot less necessary.
PoTD added another way to cap tomes, gain XP and get decent weapons.
Red Scrips made Crafting and Gathering different.

Diadem was a fail but not everything will have an impact.

There's very little info on it now but it's possible that Tails also changes player behavior. The changes are happening they're just not massive.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

HAH, I had started playing ESO around the same time! And feeling the exact same way you are to a T.

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Don't let that fool you. I joined FFXIV between 2.3 and 2.4
Naturally I still had a lot of content to clear between 2.55 and 3.0
Content update in ESO usually comes with DLC being put into the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

There's very little info on it now but it's possible that Tails also changes player behavior. The changes are happening they're just not massive.

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Player behavior isn't the change we're looking for though. It's different content that is desired. Hunts have not changed since their inception, and tome farming isn't new content no matter how many things you add them to.

Aquapolis is indeed new, but it's a single instance.

PotD is also new. But this is a foundation that people want to see improved. Will they improve it? I doubt they will with 51-100. Maybe they will with 101-200. Until it's improved, it's just mowing through trash mobs.

Diadem was abandoned for too long, and that is my biggest disappointment with it.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

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theres only so much stuff one can invent though , as u grow older , ull have more and more experience with everything , even if SE adds something new , im sure theres gona be someone on the forums crying how its similar to something else , and that the old stuff from some other game was much better (but its not really better , it was just interesting coz it was a new expirience for a while ) :P

in the end mmo is just a grind over and over again :P and no new formula is gona change that.

edit : what im trying to say is , if ur bored from gear-grind , no matter what the devs throw at u :P, one is always gona be disapointed , the only thing that comes in my mind is if the devs give out loot for free without any effort at all :P , but then ull just want more and more and more :P (its the same with all other genres like fps , racing games and so on)

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Player behavior isn't the change we're looking for though.

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Well it should be because otherwise you should just play a different game.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Hunts have not changed since their inception

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You are completely not paying attention then. B Ranks were changed massively and daily bills in 2.0 were all but useless. I never roamed around 2.x areas looking for generic mobs like i did with 3.0 Bills.

Every new system is linked to what kind of rewards it can have. The game is hindered greatly by it's itemization. Materia slots was the way they attempted to change it in 3.x but it's not enough.

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

what im trying to say is , if ur bored from gear-grind , no matter what the devs throw at u :P, one is always gona be disapointed , the only thing that comes in my mind is if the devs give out loot for free without any effort at all :P , but then ull just want more and more and more :P (its the same with all other genres like fps , racing games and so on)

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Who said anything about gear? They could completely get rid of this game's gear system and it wouldn't be a negative to me. I don't care about gear. I care about playing, not numbers.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

B Ranks were changed massively and daily bills in 2.0 were all but useless. I never roamed around 2.x areas looking for generic mobs like i did with 3.0 Bills.

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B ranks are still the same old punching bags they were, and daily bills are still the exact same thing. All that has changed is the rewards, not the content.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Who said anything about gear? They could completely get rid of this game's gear system and it wouldn't be a negative to me. I don't care about gear. I care about playing, not numbers.

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99% of the playerbase. Different content is useless if you can't incentivize enough people to participate.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

99% of the playerbase. Different content is useless if you can't incentivize enough people to participate.

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And rewards are useless if there's nothing for the players to use them for.

The next patch is either going to:

a.) Be easier content that the current patch or

b.) Make the gear you grinded for obsolete

This has been the same formula since the game has come out. What good are the rewards?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And rewards are useless if there's nothing for the players to use them for.

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You don't understand direct cause and effect. Your statement is only true if 100% of the playerbase is clearing 100% of the content. Since that's definitely not true for Savage the rewards are not useless because players can definitely use any new rewards towards clearing Savage.

The problem with new content is that it has to have a difficultly in line with the quality of the rewards that it provides without trampling over the previous existing systems that are already in place.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

B ranks are still the same old punching bags they were, and daily bills are still the exact same thing. All that has changed is the rewards, not the content.

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And both of those make a huge difference on whether people participated or not. When people were not doing it at all, it's not actual content that matters. Now that people are doing it, it is.

Hunts are about finding the mob first and foremost not how to kill them. B Ranks being solo friendly now makes it a unique system where players will fly around to search for them and shout out their positions to assist other people. It's no longer part of the massive train that A and S Ranks are. There's no vitriol to B Rank hunting that the rest of hunts have.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

This has been the same formula since the game has come out. What good are the rewards?

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Do people still do Savage? yes
Do people still queue for roulettes? yes
Do people still do Hunts? yes
Do people still clear Primals? yes
Do people still dig up Treasure Maps? yes

Do people do Diadem? no
Do people do Triple Triad? no
Do people do Lord of Verminion? no
Do people do PVP? not really

Rewards are good as long as it incentivizes people to repeat/participate in a piece of content. The content doesn't have to be new.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Do people still do Savage? yes
Do people still queue for roulettes? yes
Do people still do Hunts? yes
Do people still clear Primals? yes
Do people still dig up Treasure Maps? yes

Do people do Diadem? no
Do people do Triple Triad? no
Do people do Lord of Verminion? no
Do people do PVP? not really

Rewards are good as long as it incentivizes people to repeat/participate in a piece of content. The content doesn't have to be new.

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So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

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No, that's bad because people will ignore other parts of the game if FATEs is the best way to acquire the highest iLv gear. That is the very problem with the current itemization. Hunts did that when it was first released, people only wanted to do Hunts and nothing but Hunts. Diadem had that same problem on release too and people did it even though they hated it.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

No, that's bad because people will ignore other parts of the game if FATEs is the best way to acquire the highest iLv gear. That is the very problem with the current itemization. Hunts did that when it was first released, people only wanted to do Hunts and nothing but Hunts.

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But by your very logic, we don't need other parts of the game. We just need people to do the content.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

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No. It doesn't have to be the best gear. It doesn't even have to be gear. It just needs to be something that people really want. Housing items, orchestrion rolls, mounts, pets, whatever. You'd be surprised how far people go to get a unique player title. In wow some people grinded reputation with opposing factions just to get 4 words above their heads.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

But by your very logic, we don't need other parts of the game. We just need people to do the content.

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The content that is being mostly ignored yes, but you can't do that at the expense of making people ignore other content.

And I did not say we don't need new systems, but they can't add too many without a proper reward structure.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

The content that is being mostly ignored yes, but you can't do that at the expense of making people ignore other content.

And I did not say we don't need new systems, but they can't add too many without a proper reward structure.

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And I think that before you make people do something, you should make the content actually good.

FATEs are their most used content and it's also, I'm pretty sure, the most hated content in the game. So I disagree that incentivizing people to do terrible content is a good thing. It's better to have good content with bad rewards than to have bad content with good rewards.

The problem, is making content last, without low drop rates, without stagnating your character growth, without becoming obsolete.

IE, impossible.

People get tired of running multitudes of dungeons, yet we are supposed to have something similar that lasts years? Tomes are evil, but how do we get gear otherwise? if it drops every time, then you finish gearing and have nothing to use that gear for. if it rarely drops, then you are just doing the same thing as getting tomes, only with no rewards 90% of the time. 10% drop rate, up to 8 people in the party want it. Would turn into the minions from dungeons all over, but with gear.

People always say open world dungeons would solve the problems, but how? You are still going to have to grind it out, just in a different way. It would essentially be open world diadem, but with mobs dropping keys for chests? something like that? and then 99% of the time, you get grade 6 dark matter.

Hooray.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And I think that before you make people do something, you should make the content actually good.

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You and everyone else, that's easier said than done. That's limited by development resources and deadlines.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

It's better to have good content with bad rewards than to have bad content with good rewards.

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Neither of those are better, they are both bad for different reasons.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

You and everyone else, that's easier said than done. That's limited by development resources and deadlines.

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Development resource that are being poured into rehashing old content. Hence... this thread.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Development resource that are being poured into rehashing old content. Hence... this thread.

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What exactly do you want them to stop making? New Primal trials? New Savage Raids? New Expert dungeons? New Storyline?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

What exactly do you want them to stop making? New Primal trials? New Savage Raids? New Expert dungeons? New Storyline?

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If I had to pick one of those, the dungeons. Reduce to one dungeon and stop moving dungeons out of expert roulette.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

If I had to pick one of those, the dungeons.

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They already did that, that's why they cut down from 3 expert dungeons to 2 in 3.0 so the resources for that could go into stuff like making Aquapolis, PotD and Diadem. You want to cut that down even more? And you know one of them is basically always part of the storyline anyway.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

They already did that, that's why they cut down from 3 expert dungeons to 2 in 3.0 so the resources for that could go into stuff like making Aquapolis, PotD and Diadem. You want to cut that down even more? And you know one of them is basically always part of the storyline anyway.

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If something has to be removed, yes, it should be something that's just a duplicate anyway. And like I said in my edit, they should stop getting rid of them from expert roulette. We shouldn't be limited to two dungeons in a single roulette.

Ideally though, the solution is to hire, or train, more staff. Their team being too small is not a valid excuse, and I'm amazed at how many people simply accept it. Sure, we can't do much about it, but doesn't mean we should defend them for having a small team.

But whatever. As long as they continue as they are now, I play this game less with every patch, and that's not such a bad thing. So I do agree with you on one thing: I should (and do) be playing something else. I only sub one month per patch now, and I was actually considering skipping this patch.

It would be nice if the previous non-story dungeons got their difficulty & loot bumped up a notch come patch time so that the expert roulette continuously expanded through the patch cycle.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Don't need to try it when we've been playing it for three years now.

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Then why the hell are you still disappointed LOL. Play something else.

Is it just me or are the lalafells always the hardest ones to please?

Well yes, generally potatos are much rougher than humans.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

If something has to be removed, yes, it should be something that's just a duplicate anyway. And like I said in my edit, they should stop getting rid of them from expert roulette. We shouldn't be limited to two dungeons in a single roulette.

Ideally though, the solution is to hire, or train, more staff. Their team being too small is not a valid excuse, and I'm amazed at how many people simply accept it. Sure, we can't do much about it, but doesn't mean we should defend them for having a small team.

But whatever. As long as they continue as they are now, I play this game less with every patch, and that's not such a bad thing. So I do agree with you on one thing: I should (and do) be playing something else. I only sub one month per patch now, and I was actually considering skipping this patch.

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This is a Square Enix problem. We can complain all we fancy, but if even Yoshi hasn't gotten them to bolster the team, our choices boil down to either play the game as is or move on to something else. Making forum posts isn't going to suddenly change SE' stance. They don't care.

Reducing dungeons down to one would only increase the sense of repetition. I do agree they should do away with Expert Roulette. But only one new dungeon every three months means we're more likely to see Neverreap or Antitower than the actual new dungeon. I suppose the better question is what exactly do you want them to replace it with or add?