[Spoiler] The Rising Mogstation Update

I think it is great they come out with new optional outfits to buy. It supports FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I think it is great they come out with new optional outfits to buy. It supports Square Enix

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Fixed that for you. We gave no idea if cash shop purchases go into ffxiv or into whatever they feel like.

Just food for thought if you think your purchase is going directly to ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Fixed that for you. We gave no idea if cash shop purchases go into ffxiv or into whatever they feel like.

Just food for thought if you think your purchase is going directly to ffxiv.

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if it supports square enix it supports ff14, it's the same thing, no game has all the money going back to making the game/more sequels.

in any business money is always going directly to people pockets.

Why can't they give out the non dyeable item for the event and place dyable items in the Mog Station for those who really want to dye them.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if it supports square enix it supports ff14, it's the same thing, no game has all the money going back to making the game/more sequels.

in any business money is always going directly to people pockets.

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You're not objectively wrong, but I doubt I'm alone in feeling like this game is not given nearly a large enough budget relative to all of the income that it generates.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if it supports square enix it supports ff14, it's the same thing, no game has all the money going back to making the game/more sequels.

in any business money is always going directly to people pockets.

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Well normally when game such as this does well it will be given a bigger budget to work with but apparently does not seem to be the case, so people can pour all the money they want into the cash support it not really supporting the game unless SE decides to give the game a bigger budget for all the money it making from said cash shop sales.

For once i'm actually conflicted I do want that outfit but don't wanna pay a month sub to get it lol (or "technically" a 3 month sub for the moogle mount).. But the fact the the outfit isn't dyeable kills it for me.. I don't understand why every item in the game isn't dyeable on day 1 (if at all). It just feels like they keep doing things that frustrate the community. *sigh*

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Well normally when game such as this does well it will be given a bigger budget to work with but apparently does not seem to be the case, so people can pour all the money they want into the cash support it not really supporting the game unless SE decides to give the game a bigger budget for all the money it making from said cash shop sales.

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Pretty much this.. Because our 15$ a month just to be able to log into the game isn't enough anymore, that much seems to be apparent at this point. and to be honest if the money was going to the dev team, I wouldn't mind supporting it but its not or at least a small portion of it. Content would be much better if was but there forced to make due with what they got..

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Originally Posted by Jadub2k

Content would be much better if was

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this is not some undeniable proof cash shop money isn't going into the game, content being good or bad solely depends on the persons view of the content.

no one here knows if the game is or isn't being given more or less money, it's just being stated like its true to be used against the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by DreamAngel-Ren

No, you don't have to shed everything out for cash because the items are OPTIONAL meaning it's your choice whether to have the item or not.
Going a bit off topic, since SE just released Thancred and Y'shtola's latest attire in the Mogstation, it makes me wonder on what's going to happen to the characters in the story..o3o

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not mad about those outfits being in the cash shop. I'm mad those outfits are available for players at all.
Although ofc, since they are in the cs, it was a decision based on "what can we make the most money with", at the price of breaking the last bit of suspension of disbelief I had left.

Tbh, I hope the characters die. At least it won't matter anymore then what players around them wear ;(
What's not there anymore can't get trivialized, you know?^^


Well, and to answer in a less salty way: I still hope they die.
For Thancred, because all of his involvement since the beginning of Minfilia's arc back in 1.0 in Ul'dah came to a close so his purpose is kind of..over.
For Y'shtola just because her always having an idea and the answer and a way out is getting kind of old and if we ever want to see the story go full despair again, she needs to go.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

if it supports square enix it supports ff14, it's the same thing.

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Not exactly. In ways it is and in others it isn't.

Due to the lack of transparency I can logically argue that cash shop sales could even be detrimental to content development of FFXIV. Arguing 5 hat high cash shop sales encourage them to cut more content as shop 3xlusive and 5 hat consumers show they are ok with the rate and style of content we are getting.

Sadly we have next to jo information and can only assume what is done with the money and how it effects development.

Personally I think it does nothing but negative things and if we allow them to keep pushing the slopes going to get a little more slippery.

Just because it's good for Square ENIX does not mean it's good for FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Due to the lack of transparency I can logically argue that cash shop sales could even be detrimental to content development of FFXIV. Arguing 5 hat high cash shop sales encourage them to cut more content as shop 3xlusive and 5 hat consumers show they are ok with the rate and style of content we are getting.

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i could always argue that if cash shop items weren't being bought that the items just wouldn't be put in the game at all, why put time and money into something that isn't going to make them money.
they already have lots of glamour and other items in game so just save the money from the team that would be needed to do it all together.

but yea in the end its all only theories and personal thoughts on the situation as a whole based on how we each feel about it.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Just because it's good for Square ENIX does not mean it's good for FFXIV.

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but it does, as if the game was making bare minimum (say without or even with cash shop) they would slowly take the budget away while trying to keep as many players as they could while spending less.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

this is not some undeniable proof cash shop money isn't going into the game, content being good or bad solely depends on the persons view of the content.

no one here knows if the game is or isn't being given more or less money, it's just being stated like its true to be used against the cash shop.

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This is ture, what's also ture is that money rules every aspect of this game and the Dev team must make due with whatever budget the higher ups deem worthy to provide which does effect the overall content of the game. Where is the money going, no one truly knows but I'm willing to bet a good portion of it is going to FFXV and Remake

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

but it does, as if the game was making bare minimum (say without or even with cash shop) they would slowly take the budget away while trying to keep as many players as they could while spending less.

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Then you would need to know what "Bare minimum" is, and also by extension know that Square Enix isn't cutting the budget anyways while siphoning off cash.

The cash shop "Supports" Square Enix, nobody can deny that, but how it effects FFXIV is anyones guess we can't confirm or deny if it's good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Then you would need to know what "Bare minimum" is, and also by extension know that Square Enix isn't cutting the budget anyways while siphoning off cash.

The cash shop "Supports" Square Enix, nobody can deny that, but how it effects FFXIV is anyones guess we can't confirm or deny if it's good or bad.

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well this is a hypothetical argument based on different views of the situation, so the idea of cutting budget even if a game is doing ok/good isn't impossible but would go against the business model of you put in money to get money.

but how can more money be a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

but how can more money be a bad thing?

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How can it be a good thing if it's hypothetically not going towards the game itself, as I explained above it's very possible (Given how game publishers have been this last decade) that high sales of micro-transactions are actually hurting the games development rather than assisting it.

This is the same company that has split parts of it's games off as "DLC" Look at Dues Ex, hell they are splitting the FFVII reboot into multiple "Episodes" so they can get more money out of it instead of making a single coherent game.

There are tons of ways money doesn't equal quality, especially in the corporate world.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

but more money = more of everything

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http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/st...g?t=1471951973

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Originally Posted by Inafune

"It's better than nothing"

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Yeah more money = more of everything. We obviously have a differing opinion on the industry as a whole let alone the state of FFXIV or the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

There are tons of ways money doesn't equal quality, especially in the corporate world.

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making dlc and splitting ff7 remake doesn't it's a money grab (doesn't mean its not either) it's all about the intent (which we can only assume)

looking at dlc as part of the game and being sliced up deliberately to make money shows it in the light of bad while looking at it as it was made as extra that would have never been made shows it as extra content you can buy if you found the game fun enough/dlc good enough to buy.

ff7 is in parts to be able to make it to its full potential ( could always be a money grabbing lie) it lets them fully focus on one part in detail at a time and lets them slowly bring it out over time, it also lets them gauge if they are making it in a way players like instead of spending 10 years on the whole thing if part one flops it's less time/money/resources wasted on a project. (ff7 isn't a small game to begin with let alone with the ideas they say they want to do)

no amount of money =quality but it does = quantity, quality is based on peoples opinions/if the company actually intends to make a good game.

but more money = more of everything

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Yeah more money = more of everything. We obviously have a differing opinion on the industry as a whole let alone the state of FFXIV or the cash shop.

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yet he never said *better than nothing* i don't see how this is some giant argument against money = more (he even took full blame for the whole thing)

mighty number 9 only had 4 million to go off of which is very little, and they didn't even give it lots of micro transactions.

all it shows is good hearted people can flop.

Are we going to have this fight literally every time the Mogstation releases a new item?
In the end, all i can say is, vote with your wallets.

Well, I've been jealous of Y'shtola's HW look since I first saw it, so sorry if my skipping take-out one night for a game vanity is too much for cash-shop naysayers to handle.

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

Are we going to have this fight literally every time the Mogstation releases a new item?
In the end, all i can say is, vote with your wallets.

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I think the problem with that is that for anti cash shop players to do this in a way that "hurts" SE, they'd pretty much have to unsubscribe over it, as for the most part hating the Mogstation but continuing to stay subbed is really just keeping the status quo, and it's a bit unreasonable for anyone to unsubscribe over cosmetics (and with no surveys or anything, impossible for the devs to know that was WHY you unsubbed).

So realistically, all anti-CS players can do is make their displeasure known on the forums and whatnot.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Well, I've been jealous of Y'shtola's HW look since I first saw it, so sorry if my skipping take-out one night for a game vanity is too much for cash-shop naysayers to handle.

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If you buying it once is too much for them to handle, I should probably not mention how I had to buy two of the Y'shtola sets because I wanted the outfit pieces on one character for glamour, but the hairstyle for a different character who I'd wanted it on forever... and also bought the Thancred set just for the hairstyle.

-coughs- :x

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Originally Posted by SagaSoluna

Are we going to have this fight literally every time the Mogstation releases a new item?
In the end, all i can say is, vote with your wallets.

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Yes we are, and we'll keep fighting until one of us concedes.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

mighty number 9 only had 4 million to go off of which is very little, and they didn't even give it lots of micro transactions.

all it shows is good hearted people can flop.

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Mighty No. 9 had a MUCH smaller goal, which ballooned into 4 million dollars when people threw money at the kickstarter project because fans wanted a classic Mega Man game and raise the middle finger to Capcom who hadn't bothered making a Mega Man game in ages. 4 million dollars for a simple project isn't anything to sneeze at and regardless on whether or not the game had microtransactions, the money was handled very poorly.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

a simple project

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i didn't know making a video game was a simple project.

i brought up transactions because this whole debate is based around them, sure lots of people disliked how mighty number 9 turned out but it wasn't due to corruption/greed it was a game the devs thought the players would like that ended up not that way, and when one person translated a stream they said the producer said *its better than nothing* which isn't true.

he was using a game that would be more suited for his cause than a point against it which struck me as odd.

I say simple because the game wasn't or probably wasn't going to be as big as it was, but once the money poured in, their ambitions grew huge. Ergo, the project wasn't simple anymore.

I think we get plenty of in-game content for our sub, but I also think some of the cash shop items are wayyyyy too expensive. (that fat moogle mount? haha no)

I did get the Y'shtola outfit though, as I've wanted it since it first appeared in the game... plus it's in separate pieces, and the hair is super cute.

Would be much appreciated if it were dyable though. :/

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

he was using a game that would be more suited for his cause than a point against it which struck me as odd.

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While my over-arching point is micro-transactions aren't always good for games it was a direct contrast to your statement that more money = more everything.

Mighty No.9 was a game that took all that extra money and mismanaged it so poorly that they released a game that was far more mediocre than the budget they raised would be expected. The issue for them was they over-promised what they could deliver and porting to every system possible killed the project mainly, but they mostly blame it on the larger budget they had as it made them focus on more than they could deliver.

It's in stark contrast your opinion that money makes things better, where the game itself failed because it tried to make it follow your exact words.

More Money = More everything.

You also underestimate how far 4 million can take a small development team that doesn't have to worry about overhead costs as much as a publisher backed studio, the game was tiny for the budget they had, looked terrible, played terrible, and as such was received terribly. All that money didn't help them and by their own words hindered them. I wont get too into it unless you really want me too but 4 million for a kickstarter game is amazing and we have seen far better games come out of less.

Wasteland 2 is a good example a 3 million kickstarter that released a great game, and even released a free upgrade to the game that enchanced the whole game with a entirely new engine. The same thing happened with Divinity original Sin, a mere 900k and they revamped the whole game for free. So 4 million for a mediocre game full of mismanagment and blunder is a good case for money not being the best solution to making a good game. A tight budget can actually help more often than not as it makes the developers make sure everything they do counts. Not that I think any of the cash shop money is going into FFXIV anyways.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

snip

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the extra money let them put it on more consoles, which to many is seen as a bad thing.
they released a game with in all their honesty was what they thought everyone would like, this has less to do with money than with people outright not liking what was made.
while they could have managed things better it doesn't instantly mean that it would have end up better than it did. (this goes back to how you look at it)

be it a kickstarter or a real company a game is a game, there will always be bad/good games that had little funding and bad/good games with lots of funding. it's a risk no matter what.

The money didn't just let them put it on more consoles they pretty much cite it as the reason the game turned out so poorly. Spin it all you like the developers themselves blamed the money.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I think the problem with that is that for anti cash shop players to do this in a way that "hurts" SE, they'd pretty much have to unsubscribe over it, as for the most part hating the Mogstation but continuing to stay subbed is really just keeping the status quo, and it's a bit unreasonable for anyone to unsubscribe over cosmetics (and with no surveys or anything, impossible for the devs to know that was WHY you unsubbed).

So realistically, all anti-CS players can do is make their displeasure known on the forums and whatnot.

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Not buying anything from the Mog Station is also a form of voting with your wallet. You don't necessarily need to unsub to show your stance on the matter. If enough people don't buy anything from the store they probably won't make (as many) exclusives to be sold there in the future. It's the same as when nobody buys a certain item from the grocery store; at some point the store is going to have to stop ordering that item in because it's a loss of money to keep it in their selection. Reversed, when enough people buy a certain type of product the shop will deem it profitable to keep making/offering them.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Not buying anything from the Mog Station is also a form of voting with your wallet. You don't necessarily need to unsub to show your stance on the matter. If enough people don't buy anything from the store they probably won't make (as many) exclusives to be sold there in the future. It's the same as when nobody buys a certain item from the grocery store; at some point the store is going to have to stop ordering that item in because it's a loss of money to keep it in their selection. Reversed, when enough people buy a certain type of product the shop will deem it profitable to keep making/offering them.

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All they need are enough people to buy the item to cover the cost of developing the art assets or whatever for it. In my experience, that is not a huge amount of money. If only 1,000 people bought cash shop stuff at SE's prices it would still turn a profit, and 1,000 players is like .2% of the playerbase. Meanwhile, the other 499,000 don't like the shop but don't unsub over it, so the shop is "profitable", thus the shop stays. But if 50,000 people cared enough to unsubscribe over it, then the executives at SE might re-think their addition of it.

Do you understand the point I'm trying to make with this? It doesn't take a huge number of people buying Mogstation stuff for the store to be "worth SE's time". Someone even posted a Lodestone scrape that PROVED that not many people were buying the Mogstore stuff (highest was EB with like 11% of players buying at least the $10 version), and yet they keep adding more and more crap to it.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

All they need are enough people to buy the item to cover the cost of developing the art assets or whatever for it. In my experience, that is not a huge amount of money. If only 1,000 people bought cash shop stuff at SE's prices it would still turn a profit, and 1,000 players is like .2% of the playerbase. Meanwhile, the other 499,000 don't like the shop but don't unsub over it, so the shop is "profitable", thus the shop stays. But if 50,000 people cared enough to unsubscribe over it, then the executives at SE might re-think their addition of it.

Do you understand the point I'm trying to make with this? It doesn't take a huge number of people buying Mogstation stuff for the store to be "worth SE's time". Someone even posted a Lodestone scrape that PROVED that not many people were buying the Mogstore stuff (highest was EB with like 11% of players buying at least the $10 version), and yet they keep adding more and more crap to it.

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Yeah, you kinda hit the nail on the head with that. The person you quoted is right, but in an unfortunately unrealistic way. It is voting with your wallet to not buy from a cash shop, but it doesn't need many buyers to prove itself profitable.

It's sort of like RMT on that matter, where while a significantly large majority of the player population do not participate in it, the fact that they spend little to no money being around is enough for them to justify their presence from a handful of buyers.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru_Nagisa

If you buying it once is too much for them to handle, I should probably not mention how I had to buy two of the Y'shtola sets because I wanted the outfit pieces on one character for glamour, but the hairstyle for a different character who I'd wanted it on forever... and also bought the Thancred set just for the hairstyle.

-coughs- :x

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Bless you're little heart. The vanity struggle is real!

I just realized something.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE KRILE'S PIKACHU HOODIE YET.

*cries*

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

I just realized something.

WHY DON'T WE HAVE KRILE'S PIKACHU HOODIE YET.

*cries*

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^^^^^^^^^^^^
This x1000

I bought it and I'm slightly satisfied. But I'd like to point that:

Dear SE, if we're going to pay $15 for cosmetics from now on, at least make it dyeable. It's the same price as the Lightning/Snow outfits, it gives us a hairstyle and it also comes with mix&match pieces. There's no excuse for the outfits to be non-dyeable. If you can spend time working on 50+ shades for a hairstyle + adjustments for all the races and genders you can as well put the same effort into making the gear itself dyeable. It's our money, so take into consideration the customer's opinions on that matter.

If it's not "free" or obtainable simply through playing the game, then make it worth the 15 bucks you're charging for it.

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Originally Posted by Kallistra

Saito is correct. The ban is also permanent. She has been sending in a new ticket every time SE Support replies to her old one, but she hasn't gotten anything other than the same robot response. She did try calling them too, I don't remember what they said off the top of my head, but it didn't get us anywhere.

She does still read the forums everyday, though. So she's still here, she just can't say anything herself. I do make most of my posts on her behalf, but I know it's not the same.

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Did she never get a warning for previous instances of breaking rules?

If not perma-ban seems a bit severe. If she was warned before then in my view she got what she deserved for ignoring rules.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Bless you're little heart. The vanity struggle is real!

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it's 'your' not 'you're'. (i'm sorry, biggest pet peeve of mine ._.)

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Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

it's 'your' not 'you're'. (i'm sorry, biggest pet peeve of mine ._.)

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Crip crap. I'm normally good about that, too. I can't even correct it on mobile!

Since when can't you edit on mobile? Works fine for me.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Since when can't you edit on mobile? Works fine for me.

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Well, the mobile version doesn't have an edit button. You have to switch over to using full version on mobile devices to get that, and the mobile version is much easier to read on phones and such so people don't always want to do that.